But that's not Grindy. At all. You guys were taking about how painful it'd be to hatch many many eggs via tauros but egg moves are one and done in most cases
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Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKIII *Official Media Only*
- Thread starter DHR-107
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yeah animating it made it click better thats for sure
Ehh you may be breeding a few times for the gender you want as well, and we still don't know how easy it would be to use bottle caps for perfect IVs. Plus you are breeding for abilities too which you don't always get the one you want.
Its a lot less breeding then in previous games thanks to the bottlecaps but its not one and done.
This is a game that's aimed and marketed at kids.
Yes we may be a bit more mature than the target audience, but wanting a pokemon game that's as grindy as an MMO goes against the spirit of what Gamefreak seems to be aiming for now that online gaming is a reality for most people. Heck, they're gonna let us QR code a team! That's an non-grindy as you get!
I'll leave you with this weird out there thought I had after watching that last Train On trailer.
So you complete the island trials, stop the Ultra Beasts and form the Pokémon league.
Then you go home and your mom tells you you're moving back to Kanto....
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Okay? I'm well aware of the criticisms you brought up. They aren't the first time I've heard them and I don't deny that they can take away from the gaming experience for some players. They just don't detract too much from my experience. You have your standards and I have mine.
If this is referring to me, I'm not sure how I got told. Again, I'm well aware of these criticisms. I've heard them all before. If I had made a general statement and asserted that gen 2 games are the best, you'd have more of an argument but I simply stated that S/M seems like it will be my favorite set of games since HGSS due the all of the content/new features we're aware of at this point. What exactly was I schooled on? My own personal preferences?
As long ss they streamline it and allow decent customization that isn't hidden behind a frustration layer of time/RNG It can work.
Sadly GF is unable to think straight on player convenience and only gets it right near the end of a console life, HGSS interface, B2W2 shops, Esmerald and Pt tutors and soaring/player customization Esmerald everstone and synchronizers, hgss surefire IV passing with power items.
They can think of a cool mechanic, but we would be grasping at the straws on it being convenient or easy to jump into.
I have had no issues using pokemon from after Morty at all. Hell, the only pokemon I would say actually suck beyond use is Wobb and Tyrogue and not 100% sure I would even say that about Ty. Sure you can't use a bunch of mons from that far back, but that just adds some fun team planing to the game. Steel and Dark types being uncommon is because the types were new in the original games and there wasn't a ton of mons to retcon. There is plenty in After Game, gyms (8 of them all just as hard as the rest of them. Which is easy but still) Basically a super end game boss in Red. Even if the frontier is copy pasted from PL, it is still there and is end game material to do that quite a few of the games lack in. You get little side quests like repairing the train. As far as your argument that fluff doesn't effect gameplay, it totally does. It gets you invested into the world. This is a good thing, because it makes you want to explore, which you know, helps you find the odds placed mons, which in turn can lead you to experiment with them. It also makes the experience more memorable. Fluff keeps you playing, which in turn makes the game better. This is why I am sooo happy about all the fluff stuff they have been showing off for S/M. It might actually make me what to explore something I haven't cared to do in pokemon since FR/LG. The old characters also showing the advancing world, and putting old favorite pokemon in the game make people care more and draw them in. (Which is good game design from the sales point of view.) I guess what I am trying to say is what makes a pokemon game good and what game designs are good is SUBJECTIVE. What someone likes design was will vary. For example you like the 5th gen exp system. I hated it because it made grinding to 100 a pain. So for you it was a good game design, for me it is terrible. (Actually it was the worse thing they did that gen to me). So, stop trying to act like your opinion is the god dam fact.
Link for reference:
So in that Japanese train on trailer I decided to do some base HP stat ranges from the video and the English and Japanese final starter evo trailers just for fun. Here they are below!
Most surprising thing there was Charjabug, that thing has a way bigger potential HP stat than I was expecting. Hopefully this means that Vikavolt isn't just some lame ass early bug since it also evolves to Vikavolt at level 40 (also hoping that this means that Eviolite Charjabug could be interesting in doubles with Eviolite because of Battery lol)
Edit: added Alolan Raticate
So in that Japanese train on trailer I decided to do some base HP stat ranges from the video and the English and Japanese final starter evo trailers just for fun. Here they are below!
Tapu stats (172 at level 60): 70-85
For the rest, lets look at 3 ranges.
Max IV max EVs - max IV - Minimum IV
Incineroar (158 at level 50): 51 - 83 - 98
Alolan Raichu (120 at level 50): 13 - 45 - 60 (note: last stat matches regular Raichu's base HP at 0 IVs)
Psychic Oriocorio (135 at level 50): 28 - 60 - 75
Charjabg (123 at level 37): 56 - 88 - 103
Bruxish (143 at level 50): 36 - 68 - 83
Alolan Ninetales (148 at level 50): 41 - 73 - 88 (note: the middle stat matches regular Ninetales's base HP at 31 IVs)
Alolan Exeggutor (202 at level 50): 95 - 127 - 142 (note: the first stat matches regular Exeggutor's base HP at 31 IVs and 252 EVs)
Other Alolan Exeggutor (234 at level 70): 63-95-110 (note: middle stat matches regular Exeggutor's base HP at 31 IVs)
Minior (148 at level 50): 41 - 73 - 88
Minior (142 at level 50): 35 - 68 - 83 (Maybe they used videos from different battles? Either that or the base HP went down a bit when it changed formes o_O)
Alolan Raticate (192 at Level 70): 34 - 65 - 81
For the rest, lets look at 3 ranges.
Max IV max EVs - max IV - Minimum IV
Incineroar (158 at level 50): 51 - 83 - 98
Alolan Raichu (120 at level 50): 13 - 45 - 60 (note: last stat matches regular Raichu's base HP at 0 IVs)
Psychic Oriocorio (135 at level 50): 28 - 60 - 75
Charjabg (123 at level 37): 56 - 88 - 103
Bruxish (143 at level 50): 36 - 68 - 83
Alolan Ninetales (148 at level 50): 41 - 73 - 88 (note: the middle stat matches regular Ninetales's base HP at 31 IVs)
Alolan Exeggutor (202 at level 50): 95 - 127 - 142 (note: the first stat matches regular Exeggutor's base HP at 31 IVs and 252 EVs)
Other Alolan Exeggutor (234 at level 70): 63-95-110 (note: middle stat matches regular Exeggutor's base HP at 31 IVs)
Minior (148 at level 50): 41 - 73 - 88
Minior (142 at level 50): 35 - 68 - 83 (Maybe they used videos from different battles? Either that or the base HP went down a bit when it changed formes o_O)
Alolan Raticate (192 at Level 70): 34 - 65 - 81
Most surprising thing there was Charjabug, that thing has a way bigger potential HP stat than I was expecting. Hopefully this means that Vikavolt isn't just some lame ass early bug since it also evolves to Vikavolt at level 40 (also hoping that this means that Eviolite Charjabug could be interesting in doubles with Eviolite because of Battery lol)
Edit: added Alolan Raticate
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Fact , Pokémon of lower level gain more experience in BW, this games allow you to experiment with recently captured Pokémon more than any other game up till XY exp share. I do admit it is disheartening to see less exp on the league after every run, ingame it was a good thing , post game the penslization was poorly implemented.
Back to Johto and my worries with fluff as a focus on games.
Fact , Johto is a game that was in development hell until Iwata compressed the data and optimized two regions into what was supposed to be the space of two.
Fact, Fluff doesn't change gameplay at all, point and case DOOM and its clones as the best example in gaming history.
Fact, the obtain rates of several johto species can go as low as 1% in the case of Marril.
Fact almost all of the johto families except the cases I listed previously have terrible level up movepools that require too much sustain on a game with a terrible experience curve unless grinding happens.
Fact almost all the johto lines are 1+ offensively by the Kanto lines both in movepool and bst , johto lines tend to be better for the support role sans 3 exceptions in the original and 7 in the remakes thanks to updated movepools/crossgen evolutions.
I'm not pulling this out of my ass, stuff like Yanma suffer a lot in this game unless you grind psychic in voltorb flip or get lucky in goldenrod, stuff like Heracross got blessed by brick break in the remakes and Machoke became a God with the addition of fire blast and focus blast coupled with no guard until Kanto where the level curve actually gives it a move to outdamage focus blast from its superior atk stat after lv 37, I do a lot of conscious runs through my games and the fact is that johto harbors several issues on a technical level that can make the game experience of using certain Pokémon more mediocre than others, I dare you to do a run in less than 20 hours without a game corner Xatu, you will be spamming wish+fly until Kanto gives you psychic or you learn it mid 50s, so much for a backtracking reward when Hypno, Slowbro, Kadabra and Espeon cover the role better, heck Kadabra, Hypno and Slowbro outperform Espeon in GSC thanks to the elemental punches.
Enjoyment is subjective and part of multiple factors, the fluff of pleasant visuals and audio is nice to have, but core elements being missing and a true sense of rewards for party experimentation is REALISTICALLY missing from GSC and HGSS as Pokémon games, that is not subjective is a fact due to design flaws. People can't try to defend Johto with their subjective views but I won't reply further , we see clogging the thread and I already made my comparison on mixed dexes , exp curve and design I can't link my analysis of Johto's faults without repeating myself on the little information we have of Alola without sounding like a fatalistic guy and I'm honestly trying to stay positive here.
On charjabug...I wanted to use this in triples with tapu koko and Alolan Raichu, RIP triples.
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I'm really hoping they don't go "surprise bitches, the Gyms are still here!" It'd be a massive copout after GF has made great strides to actually do something different, and they would honestly contribute nothing and instead just weaken the games from a thematic standpoint.
I can live with the League because that's pretty non-intrusive, but no Gyms please.
I can live with the League because that's pretty non-intrusive, but no Gyms please.
Guys, here's some stupid new information! Dex info for the starters thanks to the Pokemon cards! http://www.pokebeach.com/2016/10/alola-collection-product-images-reveals-pokedex-entries
- Rowlet, #722: This wary Pokemon uses photosynthesis to store up energy during the day, while becoming active at night.
- Litten, #725: While grooming itself, it builds up fur inside its stomach. It sets the fur alight and spews fiery attacks, which change based on how it coughs.
- Popplio, #728: This Pokemon snorts body fluids from its nose, blowing balloons to smash into its foes. It’s famous for being a hard worker.
Popplio is disgusting, one more reason to not take him.
Now remember that Primarina loves popping those balloons up...
Reminder that Alolan Raticate's base HP range is mostly proof that Alolan forms can have different base stats than regular ones. Regular Raticate has a base HP stat of 55. Based on this i would say that Alolan Exeggcute, Raichu, and Ninetales probably have the same base HP as their regular counterparts, however.
Minior's ability states that it loses defenses when it triggers, and considering the form change is based on HP, it would probably mess up if it reduces its base HP too, so it is probably two different Miniors. Would that make the HP range 73 - 83 then, or am i guessing wrong?
And geeze Charjabug seems literally built like a bus. I guess when Vikavolt's description on the site states that it is "like a fortress that zooms through the forest" it is mentioning its defensive capabilities.
Incineroar (or rather, InCenaroar) having a higher base HP seems interesting and makes me wonder how the stats will play out.
Also, did all of the Tapus have the same HP value in the video? That is interesting if that is the case. If they have defenses more comparable to Thundurus, then they have a chance to be fairly bulky (except for Tapu Bulu. 4x Poison weakness may be a deal breaker) with the right EV spread. (At least in VGC, where Bulky Thundurus have been known to tank some super effective hits okay.)
This is a cheap cop-out I wish people would stop using. It's not just a matter of kids being dumb and therefore the game has to be made easier. Think about all the adults now who still want to continue playing pokemon, but hardly have the time to fully enjoy it since there's a timewall they can't get over due to having actual responsibilities in life. Where I'm getting at with this is that Game Freak isn't doing all these changes with only their younger audience in mind.
As for how 'grindy' the game will or will not be, I'm just gonna say that unless we get a really good exp. farming spot, I'll be hatching eggs the old fashioned way. I'd much rather do that than level grind all my way up to 100. And that's not accounting for how rare Bottle Caps might actually be.
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They aren't dead Norne, they're just sleeping with a sword in their chest.
*Hardcore denial mode*
Yes. They're atually well aware of their older audience. They mentioned that Pokken Tournament was initially conceived as a way of appealing to people who grew up with the first Pokemon games. Also, they said that Alolan forms of Gen I (and only Gen I) Pokemon were aimed at the people who played the games that were released in the late 90s. It's probably the reason they decided to "age-up" the champions from those games as well when they appear in Sun/Moon. There are plenty of 20+ players who enter VGC so GF would have to be pretty dumb to not know they exist. They obviously want to appeal to new younger players to keep the franchise healthy but older players are definitely considered.
"Saying a change was made with the main target audience in mind is a cop out"
What even? Changes might have older fans in the back of their head but come on, if you're annoyed at it being used so much play another franchise that isn't marketed at kids. Changes WILL BE MADE with the primary target audience in mind.
(also lol multi page discussion @ HGSS, this had a wacky level curve and it's kinda hard to deny really but I don't want to go into much detail in case I revive an argument that was dying lol. Tl;dr rocket grunts with Pokemon at Lv 18 at the 7th Gym)
Weird HP ranges sure but I could get behind a Minior HP change when it changes forme as I remember someone saying but can no longer find the post. I don't find it a concept that's hard to grasp imo.
Also while reading through the en-gb site I found a few interesting details that are probably c/ps from en-us but w/e
So basically it knows its scales can be harmful (I presume it does this a lot) and scatters them for enjoyment...I think this cute appearence is a ruse and there is a monster lurking inside Tapu Lele. Seriously this does not give me a "Island Guardian" vibe...it gives me a "I want to stay as far away from this as possible" vibe.
Reading over this, this was literally the most scattered post I've made in a while so sorry for that.
So, in other words, Tapu Tato Lele is a sadist with a cute face? Who would have thought it.
After reading the dex entries for the other Alolan Guardians, they all give off "Don't mess with me" vibes. Tapu Fini's entry says it can create water that purifies the mind and body, but makes those who seek it withstand its fog to get it. Mind you, this fog is described as "a thick fog that puts opponents in a trance and leads them to destroy themselves."
Tapu Bulu is said to " it shows no mercy when dealing with evildoers. It’s said that when thieves once broke into its ruins, it punished them by swinging trees around like massive clubs." and Tapu Koko is described as "a surprisingly fickle Pokémon, and will not necessarily come to your aid if you need help."
From what it seems, the Tapu's are probably good (maybe not, but its unlikely they'll be antagonist due to how Ultra Beasts are being portrayed), but you definitely don't want to get on their bad side.
Good is not nice, is the trend I'm seeing with them tbh.
It'll be especially great for if you happened to get one with a good nature for Zoroark. I got a Modest nature.
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