Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKIII *Official Media Only*

[Melons-N-Soda]

Still though, considering its design inspirations, Alolan Persian's defense could either go for the better or worse. (I think the "fat" face might improve its bulk a little bulk; but because its based on the effects of overbreeding, it could be severely crippled in that area too, though its hard to say for certain (unless someone posted a prediction for its base HP already))

Still though, if its bulk remains roughly the same as regular Persian, I'd try out a bulky RestTalk Fur Coat Alolan Persian with Nasty Plot and Snarl for the lulz, even if it'd just be a shitty gimmick most likely.

 

[Bombkirby]

Considering grid-based movement is no more, egg hatching may be significantly more different than before. Maybe based on actual time (naturally not counting spending time by talking, battling, having menus opened, etc.) rather than steps?

There's a small chance that the IV training thing may be easy enough to do that breeding becomes a thing of the past. But that depends on the time needed for each of the methods

 

[Siggu]

There's a small chance that the IV training thing may be easy enough to do that breeding becomes a thing of the past. But that depends on the time needed for each of the methods

Uh... breeding for Egg Moves?

 

[Taistelu]

There's a small chance that the IV training thing may be easy enough to do that breeding becomes a thing of the past. But that depends on the time needed for each of the methods

Breeding for Egg Moves, as Siggu said, is gonna be important. People also breed for shinies and Hidden Abilities. People keep thinking this is the end for breeding when it really isn't.

 

[zferolie]

Still though, considering its design inspirations, Alolan Persian's defense could either go for the better or worse. (I think the "fat" face might improve its bulk a little bulk; but because its based on the effects of overbreeding, it could be severely crippled in that area too, though its hard to say for certain (unless someone posted a prediction for its base HP already))

Still though, if its bulk remains roughly the same as regular Persian, I'd try out a bulky RestTalk Fur Coat Alolan Persian with Nasty Plot and Snarl for the lulz, even if it'd just be a shitty gimmick most likely.

It does feel bulky, but its hard to tell be looks alone.

That would be an interesting idea. I mean sure crap coverage, but you may be quite hard to kill by any pokemon in the game haha. but like you said gimicky.

Breeding for Egg Moves, as Siggu said, is gonna be important. People also breed for shinies and Hidden Abilities. People keep thinking this is the end for breeding when it really isn't.

Yeah I hope its not hard to breed anymore, but if we look at the map and where we guess is the breeding center, you see a long straight route, so I feel like while its not grid based it may still use a simular system

It's still only a guess that its here but possible?

 

[Khaelis]

Technically not 'official media', but this video has very sound logic behind its theory:

I'll remain skeptical about this Alolan Pokemon League, though. The wording behind the whole thing on the site is very uncertain whether it will be completed in Sun/Moon.

 

[MrTharne]

I'll remain skeptical about this Alolan Pokemon League, though. The wording behind the whole thing on the site is very uncertain whether it will be completed in Sun/Moon.

Hope it will be in S/M 2 with the champion being the character from S/M and if you have a save, it uses the same team that you had when you finish S/M (with level adjusted of course). <3

 

[Norne]

Hope it will be in S/M 2 with the champion being the character from S/M and if you have a save, it uses the same team that you had when you finish S/M (with level adjusted of course). <3

Cool concept in theory, but shit in execution if the game locks out certain species for postgame or eggmoves make a base species better.

 

[Azery]

Cool concept in theory, but shit in execution if the game locks out certain species for postgame or eggmoves make a base species better.

If anything, they'd likely have a similar team to Red in HGSS if anything. 3 startes + 3 rare mons you can pick up during your adventure.
I'm hoping the final battle at the Pokemon league will be against Hau or Gladion. Would be a fitting finale and an interesting pander to Gen 1/5 where your rival was the final(Well, semi-final in N's case.) battle in the game.

 

[Norne]

If anything, they'd likely have a similar team to Red in HGSS if anything. 3 startes + 3 rare mons you can pick up during your adventure.
I'm hoping the final battle at the Pokemon league will be against Hau or Gladion. Would be a fitting finale and an interesting pander to Gen 1/5 where your rival was the final(Well, semi-final in N's case.) battle in the game.

This is the best case scenario one can aspire here when it comes to rematches with older characters, B2W2 went the extra mile with N weather teams though .

 

[zferolie]

So... here's a crazy theory... Deoxy's is an Ultra beast, or from the same area/world as the other ultra beasts.

Deoxys' can change its form. Its not from this world, and it doesn't look like any sort of pokemon we have seen since, till the Ultra Beasts The way it moves and looks in the new generations short reminds me a lot of what we have seen in game for the ultra beasts

 

[Azery]

So... here's a crazy theory... Deoxy's is an Ultra beast, or from the same area/world as the other ultra beasts.

Deoxys' can change its form. Its not from this world, and it doesn't look like any sort of pokemon we have seen since, till the Ultra Beasts The way it moves and looks in the new generations short reminds me a lot of what we have seen in game for the ultra beasts

Ehhh...while Deoxys has it's similarities to the UB's, it also looks a lot more Pokemon-esque, I guess?

 

[Johta]

So... here's a crazy theory... Deoxy's is an Ultra beast, or from the same area/world as the other ultra beasts.

Deoxys' can change its form. Its not from this world, and it doesn't look like any sort of pokemon we have seen since, till the Ultra Beasts The way it moves and looks in the new generations short reminds me a lot of what we have seen in game for the ultra beasts

Even if they're conceptually similar, Deoxys already had its moment of relevance, so no.

 

[zferolie]

Even if they're conceptually similar, Deoxys already had it's moment of relevance, so no.

Not saying Deoxys should come back in SM, since he got a lot of love in ORAS, it just that it and the Ultra Beasts just feel very simular in design to me

 

[Pikachu315111]

Let's continue.

Though before I begin, I actually forgot to give my opinion on the Island Guardian's Signature Z-Move affect: Not good. It's just a better version of Hyper Fang/Nature's Madness (the latter they probably need to use it if Signature Z-Moves require a certain move to activate). Had it been just 75% of the opponent's max HP that would have been a little bit better, that way once you do above 25% damage you know it'll instantly knock out; but still you couldn't OHKO. Right now "Guardian of Alola" prime time would be the start of the battle where you can get the most use out of it, though that sort of takes away any strategy as after that your opponent knows the Tapu has nothing else really up its sleeve. Unlike Mega Evolution where it only makes sense to Mega Evolve as soon as possible, with other Z-Moves there is strategy to holding onto it, it keeps the opponent guessing when they're going to pull it out. Also there's no way of knocking out the opponent with it unlike other attacking Z-Moves so why wouldn't you use another basic Z-Move instead? I can sort of understand why they did this, wanting a Legendary's Z-Move not to have a weakness, but other Legendary's Signature Moves had types they weren't effective against but their Power and the Legendary's high stats were meant to mitigate that. Now this makes me worried what they plan to do with Solgaleo's and Lunala's probable Signature Z-Move.

Now onto the rest of the video:

3:11: And by that I mean going into another analysis of two new Pokemon.

Cosmog

Another "didn't think they would show" reveal, Cosmog is that mysterious Pokemon that has been hiding in Lillie's bag (not a spoiler anymore as its info revealed in the Japanese trailer which I don't know why isn't in the English trailer). I can't really say anything else about this thing without going into other spoilers, so let's stick to the usual format.
An odd design for sure, if you told me this thing was an Ultra Beast I might have believed it. It's cute (which I didn't think I'd ever say about a Pokemon based on a nebula), which goes along with its description of being curious and very trusting (which they emphasized by giving it Unaware as its Ability, nice touch). No doubt it has some importance to the plot with its space theme, but how much?
Well must be quite a bit if the Aether Foundation is researching it (and the ones to name it). It was previously only known by Alolan royalty and is still only known by a few people... and that is why Lillie is carelessly carrying it around in her bag and letting it out to get attack by Spearow. Gud jub *slow clap*. Still, why does Lillie have it, especially if the Aether Foundation is researching it? This is also the first connection between Lillie and the Aether Foundation, aside from looking like Lusamine. The only last bit of info that catches my eye is that it grows by absorbing light... and I can't really say why that it because its a spoiler. Check out the Demo Datamine later if you want to see why this interests me.

Alolan Persian

I think we all can say we saw this coming (due to Alolan Meowth) and didn't see thing coming (for how it would look). Meant to look more like the cat of its namesake, Alolan Persian keeps its dark gray color scheme that Alolan Meowth had, has a rounder and flatter face, its red gem is now blue... and that's it. Yeah, it's body is oddly still slim like a normal Persian's body, giving it an odd appearance that best can be described as a bobble head. It kind of feels half finished in that way. "Hey, maybe this is a commentary on when breeding for a certain trait in an animal it could accidentally lead to health issues like real life Persians cats have". Maybe, but if that was the case the description doesn't hint to it.
Alolan Persian's round head is held as a symbol of wealth and beauty in Alola. So much so tourists who catch an Alolan Persian must go through a strict inspection before they can take it with them (so if you want one either catch an Alolan Meowth or use the global Pokemon transferring system to get around all that :P). Alolan Persain thinks highly of itself, doesn't really grow attached to anything, will use trickery to win battles, and underestimates opponents (in other words it's a cat).
So is that all to Alolan Persian? Well actually no, because though they forgot to give it a fluffy body they didn't forget to give it the Ability for having a fluffy body: Fur Coat. The now former Signature Ability of Furfrou which made people worry when they first heard about it (then when XY came out find out Furfrou had 60 base Defense and 75 base HP so couldn't really make much use of it) is back though we'll see if Alolan Persian can make any use of it. If it can't it still has Technician to fall back on with plenty of STAB Dark-type moves it can use it with.

3:36: When it was discovered that the Alola Region has Island Challenges instead of a Pokemon League many thought that meant there wasn't going to be one... and then a leak came out said you'll be helping to build the Alolan Pokemon League once you become a Champion or the Island Challenge. After several leaks were confirmed I decided to give my thoughts on this. I basically said it could be a fun and lengthy post game feature, and since the Trial Captains trained in certain types you would select which ones could become Gym Leaders (at the time thinking there was going to more than 7 Trials). Well, just like those leaks before, it's confirmed...

Alolan League

At first I thought that since you became an Island Challenge Captain but moved here from Kanto it'll be your influence that made them decide to make a Pokemon League. But as it turns out they were already making one! Ula'Ula Island has that giant icy mountain. That mountain is the tallest mountain in Alola and is called "Mount Lanakila", its where the Alolan League is being built. Now they don't really tell us anymore (the site passively mentions it) though some other news make me wonder how they'll go about this, mainly with Gym Leaders. There's only seven trials which means if they're making a typical Pokemon League and are going to have the Kahuna become the Elite Four and the Captains the Gym Leaders than they're missing one Gym Leader. So the question is are we going to have to look for someone to be an 8th Gym Leader? Will the Kahunas and Captains not become Elite Four and Gym Leaders, and if not than who will? Are those empty lots we see around Alola (and one seen in the demo) truly for the Gyms as many theorized? It's now a mystery how they plan on going about the building of the Alolan League.

3:46: But that's not all the post game news we got, we have our Battle Facility and its thankfully not the Maison, it's a tree!

Battle Tree

Remember that giant tree on Poni Island? I'm guessing that's the Battle Tree which is the main Battle Facility of Alola (you know, like the Battle Tower/Subway/Maison). From the screenshots it looks like they built spiraling platforms around the tree which you travel up and defeat trainers along the way. Kind of reminds me of the Mt. Battle in the Colosseum games in that way.
But that's not the most interesting part of the Battle Tree. Only Alolan Champions and those of a similar title can challenge the Battle Tree. "Of similar title"? Yes, because yet ANOTHER rumor/leak is also confirmed: returning characters! Cynthia, Wally, Red, and Blue are confirmed to be just some of the trainers you can encounter (and partner up with) at the Battle Tree! Cynthia and Wally don't look to have changed from their initial design, but Red and Blue had been aged up since their games sort of took place probably over 10 or more years ago. While Blue is looking alright, I got to say Red looks a bit odd. I don't exactly know why, maybe I'm just not used to his older look yet (Blue's face didn't change that much but Red's certainly did), but its nice to them starting to age up characters... unless you Wally.

Sorry to go off on this tangent but it just annoys me. GF was doing SO good until they revealed that they aged Red and Blue yet Wally still looks like he did in ORAS. The Hoenn events took place at the same time as the Kanto events, Wally should be around the same age as Red and Blue! "BUT WAIT! That's the old non-Mega timeline! We don't know when ORAS takes place during the new Mega timeline. For all we know ORAS tooks place during XY!". Okay, Wally still should look older. Why? Because Dexio and Sina were made older! Yeah, forgot about them. Dexio and Sina were about the same age as the player (and your friends) in XY and now they're older teens/young adults. So unless ORAS takes place during the same time as Sun & Moon (which I doubt), they messed up by not aging Wally.

So, coming back onto topic, let's speculate who else could show up. Well obviously we gotta include the other Champions but since Wally is also present maybe other Rivals can appear. I doubt there will be any Gym Leaders or Elite Four as they're not Champion level, but what about leaders of other Battle Facilities? Here's my list:

Champions: Red, Blue, Lance, Steven, Wallace, Cynthia, Alder, Iris, Diantha
Rivals: Silver, Wally, Barry
Other: Palmer, N, Benga

Those are the only ones I can think of right now. Though while putting Barry and Palmer on the list that reminded me of something, I wonder if they're going to bring up the relation between Blue and Samson (and maybe any other member of the Oak family on Samson's side hanging in Alola).

Phew! Well got through that... so let's check out more trailers. I'm going to skip out on the Japanese trailer as the only interesting parts are with Cosmog (which I still don't get why wasn't in the English trailer) and some Battle Tree footage. But today they released the next part about the boy who moved to Hawaii... and possibly the final part?

Train On

(Watch Here)
0:07: Of course you had to have older kid bullies come in at some point :P They I would say they missed an opportunity of having one of them wearing a Team Skull patch of dog tag (though they are wearing black and white).
0:50: To Smogon's team recommendation! (because clearly they must be following some kind of tier rules otherwise they'd all be using Legendaries and Mega Evolutions)
1:03: Do you think those names hold any significance? Because why would they focus on them if they have nothing to do with the games?
1:05: So how is collecting helping you train a better team?
1:56: It looks like they're competing (and winning) in local competitions, how haven't you defeated those bullies yet?
1:59: "Honey, you know when I told you that Hawaii will be our new home until I get that promotion..."
3:03: GEEZ! That's the Rock-type Z-Move?! You slam a mountain on top of your opponent!

Well I think that's all for now!

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Not saying Deoxys should come back in SM, since he got a lot of love in ORAS, it just that it and the Ultra Beasts just feel very simular in design to me

Deoxys is from another planet. UBs, from a whole different universe, coming through portals.

 

[zferolie]

Deoxys is from another planet. UBs, from a whole different universe, coming through portals.

did they say another universe, or just not our world? And techincally they said Deoxys' is not from this world, but never specified if its from a different planet or something.

Maybe stretching, it just feels soo eerie to me how simular they are in terms of design and looks

 

[HelenTheHero]

I definitely agree about A-Persian. Seeing it animated helped the design for me a lot. It's so much better seeing it move instead of the static image we had before. Might even use it!

 

[Azery]

Red/Blue look more like they're in their late teens/early 20's rather than the 30 years old people think of them as. They were confirmed 16+ as of BW2 so...

And as for Wally not having aged...well honestly, he just looks a bit taller/more confident. That and they already had a perfectly good 3d model for him in ORAS, so it's probably a bit of laziness on their part but it's kinda w/e. Hoping for Silver/Hugh/Bianca/Cheren/Shauna for rivals if anything tbh.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Pikachu315111, Wally had a frail health. Several people like this don't seem like they age. My sister is two years younger than me, and everybody asks if she's my niece, because she had a growth problem and it made her stay small and she basically looks the same as when she was 15.

 

[Kiga]

So... here's a crazy theory... Deoxy's is an Ultra beast, or from the same area/world as the other ultra beasts.

Deoxys' can change its form. Its not from this world, and it doesn't look like any sort of pokemon we have seen since, till the Ultra Beasts The way it moves and looks in the new generations short reminds me a lot of what we have seen in game for the ultra beasts

Just to throw this out there, but in X and Y, Mewtwo received two Mega Evolutions, despite the fact that Mewtwo played no part whatsoever in any plot relating to the games. Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, the Latis, and Diancie all had the some form of home generation advantage. The biggest part that Mewtwo has ever played to any plot in the games was some out of the way lines of text from Pokémon Mansion on Cinnabar Island, and what amounted to an end-game quest in the otherwise fairly basic games of RGBY. He didn't even get that much in HGSS, let alone XY.

Because of this, I wouldn't mind it too much if Deoxys turns out to be an Ultra Beast, in part because we don't even know what the Ultra Beasts are, and because we know that they're not above either retcons or significant interactions with non-significant legendaries. Of the legendaries of the first six generations, Deoxys is among those that seem to come closest to the Ultra Beasts, whatever they are.

So, this thought isn't something that really relates to what I was just talking about, but it came into my head, and I just had to ask it. Would it be worth it, if Mega Stones could act as Z-Crystals, if upon using the Z move, that Mega Evolution was lost for the battle? That is, if the pokémon has yet to mega evolve, it can no longer do so if it uses the move, and if the pokémon has mega evolved, then it reverts to its base form after the move, and again, it loses it's evolution capability. The more I consider it, the more broken it sounds, but it could be an interesting end-game nuclear mechanism. It would have to function as a species item, of course, so it wouldn't necessarily be turning a Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice into the Fairy Z-Move, for example. Just something that conceptually burns out the remaining energy that sustains the form. There are some interesting mechanics that could come from that alone, such as the power of the move growing weaker the more turns that the Mega has been out, for example.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Hoping for Silver/Hugh/Bianca/Cheren/Shauna for rivals if anything tbh.

Here are reasons I left out the rivals I did:

Hugh: His goal wasn't to challenge the Pokemon League, it was to become strong enough to fight on Team Plasma and get back his sister's Purrloin. While he became a strong trainer and challenged Gym Leaders, I don't think he ever reached the level of say Wally or Silver.
Cheren: While he originally sought to challenge the Pokemon League, he learned that he didn't have a reason why which led him to a path he wanted to do: become a teacher (and later wound up getting asked to become a Gym Leader).
Bianca: Never really took the League Challenge, at least not seriously. She was just trying to find her own path and that eventually led to her wanting to help people and Pokemon get along with one another so became Juniper's assistant (whether its to train to become a Professor herself I don't know, but point is she didn't really care about the Pokemon League).
Shauna, Trevor, and Tierno: They were more on a journey just for the experience.
Opposite Gender Rival: I didn't include them as you would have to include both and already the list I made was kind of big.

Pikachu315111, Wally had a frail health. Several people like this don't seem like they age. My sister is two years younger than me, and everybody asks if she's my niece, because she had a growth problem and it made her stay small and she basically looks the same as when she was 15.

Alright, I still would say its a bit lazy and that would be more of an excuse to use the older model.

 

[Norne]

I recall Bianca being bateable in the world leaders course.

 

[Azery]

I recall Bianca being bateable in the world leaders course.

Yeah, and Shauna did say she was going to 'a far off region' in XY's post game....
Maybe Zinnia comes back.....or Colress....

 

[Johta]

Yeah, and Shauna did say she was going to 'a far off region' in XY's post game....
Maybe Zinnia comes back.....or Colress....

Oh lord, why are you jinxing it? It's already bad enough that they might bring Iris back, let alone... *shivers* Shauna.

Now, despite everything I've said before about Colress absolutely not coming back, I could see him taking on the Battle Tree. Challenging the strongest trainers in order to analyse how each of them bring out the full potential of their pokemon; this could be enough of a reason to bring him back. However, I still think the chances of it actually happening are incredibly small.

In a, but not quite, similar vein: given his recent rise in popularity & relevance; if I had to take an educated guess I'd say Steven is coming back for sure. I'll be shocked if he doesn't. He's even got a full 3d model ready to roll and all, so there's little reason not to bring him back imo.