Has anyone an opinion on the battle performance? It tends to be one of my biggest gripes when it comes to the anime. ADV and DP were among the better ones as long as it wasn't in a contest, which were both all kinds of bad (DP moreso than ADV). Gen 1 wasted too much time with slapstick humor and only has like 2 fights that are actually legit. XY is mostly just one Pokémon standing around and occasionally throwing a move into another while it's waiting for the opponent to kick the crap out of it.
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SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion
- Thread starter Jellicent
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I actually remember a number of contest battles being pretty good, especially in ADV. It helps that there was no guarantee that May or Dawn would win and they only got one shot at each, so there was some good tension and stakes.
Well, here's the thing about why I'm so fed up about how the anime handles contests:
1. The judges. At -no- point will you ever hear any critical review or any explanation for why they're blown away by the contestant. They either pass with flying colors or fail miserably, with no in-between. At least by the second contest you'll realize they're just three extra lines to pad the episode.
2. The battle rounds. Although there's some emphasis on flashy moves, there isn't any reason why you can't have ordinary battles use them (in fact, these techniques in gym matches during DP was when they really shined), making me question why the elimination rounds are basically just battles. The reason? So the result doesn't have to reflect what actually happened in the battle. This way, you can have Gabite dominate Pachirisu for most of the battle with Pachirisu merely being able to avoid getting hit by the last Stone Edge and have Buizel utterly curbstomp Lanturn and still say that Pachirisu/Lanturn won despite doing nothing to earn it.
3. Inconsistency (pretty much just for DP). In ADV, May's frequent rivals were Drew (who pretty much just boasts) and Harvey (who tricks May into poor decisions during the prelims), which weren't so bad. In DP, Zoe is the recurring rival of Dawn, who mostly talks her out of contest tactics going horribly wrong on the basis of being such a terrible idea to begin with. What happens in that or another contest is a rando scoring high in the appeal round doing exactly that.
Combine Dawn's tendency to do poor in contests along with the fact that contests are blatantly rigged, and you get a character who's an utter failure as a coordinator and never gets any better. I feel I should mention this given that it's relevant who of the main cast is the one partaking in contests.
And also, you're right with the ADV contest battles being better, mostly because they weren't as manipulated as the ones in DP and because May is a character who actually gets better as a trainer and coordinator.
1. The judges. At -no- point will you ever hear any critical review or any explanation for why they're blown away by the contestant. They either pass with flying colors or fail miserably, with no in-between. At least by the second contest you'll realize they're just three extra lines to pad the episode.
2. The battle rounds. Although there's some emphasis on flashy moves, there isn't any reason why you can't have ordinary battles use them (in fact, these techniques in gym matches during DP was when they really shined), making me question why the elimination rounds are basically just battles. The reason? So the result doesn't have to reflect what actually happened in the battle. This way, you can have Gabite dominate Pachirisu for most of the battle with Pachirisu merely being able to avoid getting hit by the last Stone Edge and have Buizel utterly curbstomp Lanturn and still say that Pachirisu/Lanturn won despite doing nothing to earn it.
3. Inconsistency (pretty much just for DP). In ADV, May's frequent rivals were Drew (who pretty much just boasts) and Harvey (who tricks May into poor decisions during the prelims), which weren't so bad. In DP, Zoe is the recurring rival of Dawn, who mostly talks her out of contest tactics going horribly wrong on the basis of being such a terrible idea to begin with. What happens in that or another contest is a rando scoring high in the appeal round doing exactly that.
Combine Dawn's tendency to do poor in contests along with the fact that contests are blatantly rigged, and you get a character who's an utter failure as a coordinator and never gets any better. I feel I should mention this given that it's relevant who of the main cast is the one partaking in contests.
And also, you're right with the ADV contest battles being better, mostly because they weren't as manipulated as the ones in DP and because May is a character who actually gets better as a trainer and coordinator.
You just need to add togekiss hax mode and you covered dawn carrer in a nutshell, the worst part is that during her peak cordinator episodes you could see how Ash tam got worse win rate wise especially for Grortle , heck pretty much if you werent Monferno or Infernape you where doomed.
Danw might be a bro on her interactions, but her character arc did snub a lot of Ash pokemon out of the spotlight, Think of Kirito bird during ADV and the sakuga jumps he got to "earn" his wins.
Danw might be a bro on her interactions, but her character arc did snub a lot of Ash pokemon out of the spotlight, Think of Kirito bird during ADV and the sakuga jumps he got to "earn" his wins.
Fun fact: I've seen a statistic counting all of Ash's battles across the generations (not counting any encounters with Team Rocket, which he always wins, one way or another) and Sinnoh is the only region in which he loses more often than he wins.
Dawn isn't so much a bro as a completely subservient doormat who never talks back to anyone, not even her own Pokémon. It's no wonder why her Pokémon don't obey sometimes (Mamoswine and Piplup to an extent) or simply don't care about her (Aipom/Ambipom, Buneary - you see why the latter if you consider how it evolves). Even her rival coordinator is extremely patronizing and demeaning.
And I thought the problem with Grotle was that it was trained from the get-go to be fast and agile like all of Ash's other Pokémon, something it straight-up cannot do after it evolved and Ash fails to properly account for that.
Dawn isn't so much a bro as a completely subservient doormat who never talks back to anyone, not even her own Pokémon. It's no wonder why her Pokémon don't obey sometimes (Mamoswine and Piplup to an extent) or simply don't care about her (Aipom/Ambipom, Buneary - you see why the latter if you consider how it evolves). Even her rival coordinator is extremely patronizing and demeaning.
And I thought the problem with Grotle was that it was trained from the get-go to be fast and agile like all of Ash's other Pokémon, something it straight-up cannot do after it evolved and Ash fails to properly account for that.
Ash has defeated Hala in Melemele's Grand Trial! So now Ash has a Normalium Z and... Electrium Z?! Yeah, Hala gave Ash an Electrium Z instead a Fightinium Z (which Hala did use during the battle).
Now this makes sense for Ash, unless Ash either caught a Fighting-type or teaches a Pokemon of his a Fighting-type move he'll have no use for a Fightinium Z. Electrium Z is what he really needs for Pikachu. But this brings up several questions:
1. If we're changing things so Ash is going to get Z-Crystals he can use, what does this mean for the collecting of Z-Crystals in the anime? Is Ash only to get some of the Z-Crystals, the bare minimum he needs that would make sense for him to get (at least for his Alolan team)? Now I'm sure we'll probably see all the Z-Crystals be used, if not by a Captain/Kahuna/important NPC than by an anime-created character; but this could radically change how things will progress compared to the games. We already phased out Ilima and Lana, Kiawe, Mallow, and Sophocles are sorta Ash's companions so who knows how that'll effect things.
2. So what is Ash's first Trial on Ula'ula Island going to be if already has the Electrium Z. I have a theory, if they de-age Molayne to nineteen they could have him be the Captain thus instead of an Electric trial it would be a Steel-type. This makes sense for Ash too as Pikachu knows Iron Tail. Also they can then have a sort of "passing on the torch" where Molayne gives the Captain position to Sophocles.
Now let's go through this, island to island. Ash completed Melemele Island and got Normalium Z from the Trial and Electrium Z from Hala.
Akala Island is Water, Fire, Grass, and Rock. Now Ash has use for Grassium Z as he has Rowlet, and he's forming a friendship with a stray Litten meaning he'll probably get it so that would give him use for Firium Z. All they'd need to do is have Ash catch a Water-type and he'd be able to do the Akala Trials without much problems (for a Water-type Ash has a choice of Pyukumuku, Dewpider, Bruxish, Mareanie, and Wimpod (Lana has Popplio, unless for some reason Popplio decides it wants to go with Ash, and Wishiwashi would be the Totem Pokemon unless they want to do a story with Ash helping a weak Wishiwashi become stronger). I'm leaning toward Dewpider, mainly since I'm hoping they include Guzma in the anime and they could have an interesting rivalry between Dewpider/Araquanid and Golisopod). Of course that leaves us with Olivia's Grand Trial. She'll obviously use Rockium Z but, unless Ash catches a Rock-type (pretty much Rockruff, Minior, or Alolan Geodude), she'll have to give him a different Z-Crystal. BUT there might be away around this. Olivia is from Konikoni City which is also where you get the Pikanium Z! So Olivia could give that Ash instead, sort of like an upgrade from the previous trial. As a final note, remember that Kahili is also from Akala and she was a former Captain so they could do something with her to give Ash the Flyinium Z. Then again if they do the Elite Four thing then maybe they'd want to keep her the exclusive Flyinium Z user.
Ula'ula Island we already partially discussed. They have an solution of having Molayne be the first Captain thus giving Ash the Steelium Z. Then we come to Acerola's Trial. Now if they have Rowlet evolve all the way there should be no problem Ash getting Ghostium Z. So now that just leaves Nanu's Grand Trial. "Ah, but if Ash get Litten he just needs to evolve it all the way and there would be no problem there"! Yes and no. While there would be no problem, it would be a bit of a downgrade from the previous Grand Trials. Also, since Acerola might become an Elite Four member they may want to keep the Ghostium Z for her. So I'm thinking that instead of being given Ghostium Z and Darkium Z that they give Ash Decidium Z and Incinium Z (meanwhile they could have Lana evolve Popplio and learn to use Z-Moves so at some point she's given Primarium Z).
But then we come to Poni Island and I have no idea how they'll do this. Will they have Mina and give her a Trial? If so would that mean Ash would get a Fairy-type (or one of his Pokemon learn a Fairy-type move)? Will they follow the game and have the Trial be the ancient Dragon Trial? Well once again Ash would need to get a Dragon-type (or Dragon-type move)? And what about Hapu? Will Ash get a Ground-type (or Ground-type move)?
Honestly, looking at the above mess of loopholes that needs to be done, it kind of annoys me. They're going to have to do so much now to make things work all because they wanted to do a slice-of-life/school days anime. Of course its kind of too early to make these kind of predictions, but Hala giving Ash the Electrium Z just made me think all of this and wanted to see what others think.
Anyway, now that it seems Ash is only getting Z-Crytals which he could use, I want to make two lists: Z-Crystals which Ash has/can use and where we could see the other Z-Crystals could be use:
Now this makes sense for Ash, unless Ash either caught a Fighting-type or teaches a Pokemon of his a Fighting-type move he'll have no use for a Fightinium Z. Electrium Z is what he really needs for Pikachu. But this brings up several questions:
1. If we're changing things so Ash is going to get Z-Crystals he can use, what does this mean for the collecting of Z-Crystals in the anime? Is Ash only to get some of the Z-Crystals, the bare minimum he needs that would make sense for him to get (at least for his Alolan team)? Now I'm sure we'll probably see all the Z-Crystals be used, if not by a Captain/Kahuna/important NPC than by an anime-created character; but this could radically change how things will progress compared to the games. We already phased out Ilima and Lana, Kiawe, Mallow, and Sophocles are sorta Ash's companions so who knows how that'll effect things.
2. So what is Ash's first Trial on Ula'ula Island going to be if already has the Electrium Z. I have a theory, if they de-age Molayne to nineteen they could have him be the Captain thus instead of an Electric trial it would be a Steel-type. This makes sense for Ash too as Pikachu knows Iron Tail. Also they can then have a sort of "passing on the torch" where Molayne gives the Captain position to Sophocles.
Now let's go through this, island to island. Ash completed Melemele Island and got Normalium Z from the Trial and Electrium Z from Hala.
Akala Island is Water, Fire, Grass, and Rock. Now Ash has use for Grassium Z as he has Rowlet, and he's forming a friendship with a stray Litten meaning he'll probably get it so that would give him use for Firium Z. All they'd need to do is have Ash catch a Water-type and he'd be able to do the Akala Trials without much problems (for a Water-type Ash has a choice of Pyukumuku, Dewpider, Bruxish, Mareanie, and Wimpod (Lana has Popplio, unless for some reason Popplio decides it wants to go with Ash, and Wishiwashi would be the Totem Pokemon unless they want to do a story with Ash helping a weak Wishiwashi become stronger). I'm leaning toward Dewpider, mainly since I'm hoping they include Guzma in the anime and they could have an interesting rivalry between Dewpider/Araquanid and Golisopod). Of course that leaves us with Olivia's Grand Trial. She'll obviously use Rockium Z but, unless Ash catches a Rock-type (pretty much Rockruff, Minior, or Alolan Geodude), she'll have to give him a different Z-Crystal. BUT there might be away around this. Olivia is from Konikoni City which is also where you get the Pikanium Z! So Olivia could give that Ash instead, sort of like an upgrade from the previous trial. As a final note, remember that Kahili is also from Akala and she was a former Captain so they could do something with her to give Ash the Flyinium Z. Then again if they do the Elite Four thing then maybe they'd want to keep her the exclusive Flyinium Z user.
Ula'ula Island we already partially discussed. They have an solution of having Molayne be the first Captain thus giving Ash the Steelium Z. Then we come to Acerola's Trial. Now if they have Rowlet evolve all the way there should be no problem Ash getting Ghostium Z. So now that just leaves Nanu's Grand Trial. "Ah, but if Ash get Litten he just needs to evolve it all the way and there would be no problem there"! Yes and no. While there would be no problem, it would be a bit of a downgrade from the previous Grand Trials. Also, since Acerola might become an Elite Four member they may want to keep the Ghostium Z for her. So I'm thinking that instead of being given Ghostium Z and Darkium Z that they give Ash Decidium Z and Incinium Z (meanwhile they could have Lana evolve Popplio and learn to use Z-Moves so at some point she's given Primarium Z).
But then we come to Poni Island and I have no idea how they'll do this. Will they have Mina and give her a Trial? If so would that mean Ash would get a Fairy-type (or one of his Pokemon learn a Fairy-type move)? Will they follow the game and have the Trial be the ancient Dragon Trial? Well once again Ash would need to get a Dragon-type (or Dragon-type move)? And what about Hapu? Will Ash get a Ground-type (or Ground-type move)?
Honestly, looking at the above mess of loopholes that needs to be done, it kind of annoys me. They're going to have to do so much now to make things work all because they wanted to do a slice-of-life/school days anime. Of course its kind of too early to make these kind of predictions, but Hala giving Ash the Electrium Z just made me think all of this and wanted to see what others think.
Anyway, now that it seems Ash is only getting Z-Crytals which he could use, I want to make two lists: Z-Crystals which Ash has/can use and where we could see the other Z-Crystals could be use:
Has: Normalium Z, Electrium Z
Can Use: Grassium Z, Flyinium Z, Pikanium Z, Pikashunium Z
Can Use: Grassium Z, Flyinium Z, Pikanium Z, Pikashunium Z
Buginium Z: Guzma
Darkinium Z: Nanu
Dragonium Z: Ryuki
Electrium Z: Ash (Checked)
Fairium Z: Mina
Fightinium Z: Hala (Checked)
Firium Z: Kiawe (Checked)
Flyinium Z: Kahili/Ash
Ghostium Z: Acerola
Grassium Z: Mallow/Ash
Groundium Z: Hapu
Icium Z: ??? (maybe Lillie since she has an Alolan Vulpix?)
Normalium Z: Ash (Checked)
Poisonium Z: Plumeria
Psychium Z: Faba
Rockium Z: Olivia
Steelium Z: Molayne
Waterium Z: Lana
Pikanium Z: Ash
Pikashunium Z: Ash
Aloraichium Z: Hau
Eevium Z: ??? (maybe Lusamine since she likes cute Pokemon?)
Snorlium Z: ???
Mewnium Z: ???
Decidium Z: Ash?
Incinium Z: Ash?
Primarium Z: Lana?
Tapunium Z: Hala/Olivia/Nanu/Hapu
Marshadium Z: ???
Darkinium Z: Nanu
Dragonium Z: Ryuki
Electrium Z: Ash (Checked)
Fairium Z: Mina
Fightinium Z: Hala (Checked)
Firium Z: Kiawe (Checked)
Flyinium Z: Kahili/Ash
Ghostium Z: Acerola
Grassium Z: Mallow/Ash
Groundium Z: Hapu
Icium Z: ??? (maybe Lillie since she has an Alolan Vulpix?)
Normalium Z: Ash (Checked)
Poisonium Z: Plumeria
Psychium Z: Faba
Rockium Z: Olivia
Steelium Z: Molayne
Waterium Z: Lana
Pikanium Z: Ash
Pikashunium Z: Ash
Aloraichium Z: Hau
Eevium Z: ??? (maybe Lusamine since she likes cute Pokemon?)
Snorlium Z: ???
Mewnium Z: ???
Decidium Z: Ash?
Incinium Z: Ash?
Primarium Z: Lana?
Tapunium Z: Hala/Olivia/Nanu/Hapu
Marshadium Z: ???
EDIT: Erm, turns out I was wrong. See posts directly below.
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Hala didn't give an Electrium to Ash, he gives a Fightinium but Tapu Koko switches the Z crystals
Oh, well I guess that what happens when you just see stills of an episode and not watching it. Course that makes me wonder what will now happen with the first challenge of Ula'ula. Bulu switches the Electrium with a Fightinium?
But now this makes me hopeful again that maybe they'll let Ash catch more than six Pokemon so that he has at least one Pokemon that can use the Z-Crystals that he gets (and I think it's still a mystery if he'll collect all of the elemental ones).
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Why did you watch stills instead of the actual anime when they are so accessible nowadays? (Even on Youtube!)
I like how they made Tapu Koko a rather mysterious but also mischievous character.
Every character in Sun Moon seems to have great personalities and well written. Even the Pokemons.
I'm really liking the anime.
I like it also ! I was very meh about Rotom Dex + new graphics, but I love all the characters and episode so far ... Does Rotom Dex count like a real Pokemon or not ? I don't think so (in the games, clearly not) but it's to rare that Ash has only two Pokemon for the first "gym" (3 in Kanto, 6 in Johto, 3 in Hoenn, 4 in Sinnoh, 5 in Unova, 3 in 6 Kalos)
Think Mewnium-Z might be reserved for a movie or they pull a Mega Altaria and never show it in the anime.
Who needs three Pokemon when Pikachu literally curb-stomping everything lol (and no, that Grubbin got the upperhand since Lillie distracted Pikachu)
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Since I'm going to watch the dub, I figured I could wait so instead skim through the pictures that Serebii posts up (quicker than watching an entire episode). And looking through the pictures again... they do show Hala initially giving Ash the Fightinium Z, get distracted, and suddenly Hala has a Electrium Z in his hand (a later picture showing Tapu Koko watching in the distance). I am not prideful enough that I can admit when I made a mistake... but I am prideful enough to make it into a light joke. :P
Man... this episode was all sorts of awesome. Animation was beautiful, the camera was on point and Rowlet FINALLY won a battle (granted, it was still knocked out, but it's something). And speaking of which, there's no way it is not evolving into Decidueye at some point given how they're making stealth to be its thing and that bodes well with a sniper.
Rowlet wasn't knocked out ... It just stops battling ... Ash won 2-0
I'm liking that the anime is putting the families of the Captains, at least the ones which Ash is intending school with, more on the forefront (and giving them more "unique" designs). First we had Lana's younger twin sisters, who while in the games use the Twin Trainer class models, in the anime resemble Lana:
(Now we just need to see if the translators know they're in the games and named Harper and Sarah)
And now in today's episode they did the same with Kiawe's mother and father, also giving him a younger sister and I think a grandfather.
(Though I do find it funny how all but his father share having seemingly natural red and black hair (except the grandfather(?) who's black greyed to white). :P)
(Now we just need to see if the translators know they're in the games and named Harper and Sarah)
And now in today's episode they did the same with Kiawe's mother and father, also giving him a younger sister and I think a grandfather.
(Though I do find it funny how all but his father share having seemingly natural red and black hair (except the grandfather(?) who's black greyed to white). :P)
The anime does tend to introduce family members of canon characters quite a bit, possibly to give an outside perspective on the character from someone who knows them better. Now that the anime got to Akala, I wonder whether/how Gladion will be introduced. He is very central in the plot around Team Skull and the Aether Foundation alike, while also being a foil to Lillie: A serious trainer compared to someone who dislikes it on a whole. Furthermore, there is their differences with Lusamine, while Lillie tries to bring out the nice one she used to know, Gladion thinks she deserves no mercy for her actions.
Episode 10 was awesome. I'm loving the style and story, and the battles are amazing.
Tapu Koko is awesome and full of personality, and Lillie becoming acquainted with the egg is a nice touch to get over her trauma.
Tapu Koko is awesome and full of personality, and Lillie becoming acquainted with the egg is a nice touch to get over her trauma.
The Red hair definitely comes from his mom side of the family, so I didn't even think too much about it. It's for sure better than having everybody look like one another a la Lusamine & CO ( unless they're trying to imply incest which I hope to god isn't the case
On a different note though, Bewear is the cutest thing ever and I'm already sad because I know there's a 'goodbye' episode coming for it at some point :(
I loved how they were going to say they were blasting off for the first time in Alola, and then comes Bewear and "saves" them.
My dudes, this season is incredible; lighthearted and doesn't take itself so seriously. For the 1st time in a looooooong while Pokemon actually made me laugh. Sun & Moon's episode 12 was just glorious. Between Mareanie and Team Rocket actually legitimately WINNING for a change I just couldn't ask for more. Also, it seems like Team Rocket will actually play a part in the plot at some point, unless Giovanni is being featured just for show and nothing will ever come of it, which would be... disappointing to say the least.
Boi, that bear is literally the best thing ever. Mimikyu also made me laugh real hard in yesterday's episode haha.
I'm actually quite surprised to find all those positive comments. I suppose I am just weird, because after twelve episodes I still find myself utterly disliking this season: the designs of the older characters are terrible and too cartoon-like, the newer characters are still very bland and forgettable (aside of a few exceptions) and the humor is way too slapstick-y and over-the-top for my tastes. Even the battles, which are one of my favorite things of the anime, are uninspired and lack dynamic choreography.
For the first time after the Advance Generation days, which I mostly skipped due to a temporary lack of interest in the franchise, I am skipping a season, which is something that not even fillers-filled Johto and messy BW managed to do.
I guess I'll just wait for Movie 20, which seems to have some potential, and the next saga that will manage to grab my interest.
For the first time after the Advance Generation days, which I mostly skipped due to a temporary lack of interest in the franchise, I am skipping a season, which is something that not even fillers-filled Johto and messy BW managed to do.
I guess I'll just wait for Movie 20, which seems to have some potential, and the next saga that will manage to grab my interest.
Episode 12 is awesome. Mareanie is amazing and. It's one more Pokémon James catch by bonding. They finally won by battling fair and square.
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Me too, I like the Sun and Moon jokes. I finally feel that I enjoy the Pokemon anime again.
I like all the characters and their interactions-- Mallow, Lillie, and Lana... I can't choose which girl I like better.
Electric trial guy is funny, and fire trial guy has a mature attitude.
It's really good.
The only people who are complaining are the people who didn't like the art style.
I think your problem is that you're looking for something more serious ( or atleast as serious as Pokémon can get ), whereas this season took a step back on that regard and just tries to be funny and playful with its over-the-top humour, which I appreciate. But I understand where you're coming from though. Compared to Sun & Moon, XY was like Game of Thrones whilst SM is more like Friends—both shows are great, but they aren't going to please the same people.