Pokémon Gengar

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A quick question? How come Gengar is so popular while Alakazam is faster? Is not Gengar outclassed by Alakazam then?
While Alakazam is faster, a bit a bit stronger and has a great ability in Magic Guard, as a pure offensive offensive Pokemon he is still out classed by Gengar. Gengar has a useful dual stab, and access to Thunderbolt, as well as Giga Drain and it can learn Psychic too. The only offensive advantage Zam has over Gengar is Psyshock which allows hits on both sides.

As for utility, Gengar has Will O Wisp and Destiny Bond.

And last but not least, Gengar has a superior typing.
 
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Does anybody have personal replays of SubWisp Gengar doing work?

& has anyone tried Disable over Taunt?
I don't have any replays, but I can attest to Gengar's SubWisp set being very effective at whittling down targets. As for your question about Disable-yes, it's has its uses, especially with all the offensive Mega Venusaurs running around. I'd recommend just experimenting with Gengar. He's a really fun pokemon this gen who can take up a handful of roles.
 
A quick question? How come Gengar is so popular while Alakazam is faster? Is not Gengar outclassed by Alakazam then?
Gengar has a HUGE support movepool. Both Gengar and Alakazam are outclassed as all out attackers by Greninja. However, Gengar can run plenty of support moves such as Will o Wisp, Destiny Bond, Taunt, Perish Song, Haze, Trick, Disable, etc; many of which are uncommon. And he can run the support moves alongside Shadow Ball and your choice of coverage moves.

Oh, and for those of you who miss Mega Gengar, this set is a bit gimmicky but does a ton of work:

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 144 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Perish Song
- Infestation
- Shadow Ball

EV's are to maximize speed and prevent defensive Mega Venusaur from breaking his subs. This set naturally lures Chansey, under the threat of wrecking something with a Shadow Ball. If the opponent gives you one free turn with whatever they switch into you, such as using a healing move or setting rocks, it dies. It also can be used to eliminate passive setup sweepers like Suicune and Clefable, since many will try to set up on you under the threat of Shadow Ball or a coverage option.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-128883268 <-- skip to turn 13

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-128998637 <-- skip to turn 20

Perish Song is also one of the best ways to put a stop to Baton Pass/Quick Pass teams, even more so if they don't see it coming.
 
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 144 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Perish Song
- Infestation
- Shadow Ball

Perish Song is also one of the best ways to put a stop to Baton Pass/Quick Pass teams, even more so if they don't see it coming.
Shoutout to this. This is why I love Gengar and he's my favorite competive poke. I mean Gengar has been OU six generations straight for a reason. This is an extremely interesting set and you're damn right I'm gonna try it out. The fact that you can take on stall and Baton Pass alike and actually beat them... Is invaluable. I don't know if you came up with this set, but kudos to you if you did. Even if you didn't, kudos to you for bringing it into the discussion.
 
Shoutout to this. This is why I love Gengar and he's my favorite competive poke. I mean Gengar has been OU six generations straight for a reason. This is an extremely interesting set and you're damn right I'm gonna try it out. The fact that you can take on stall and Baton Pass alike and actually beat them... Is invaluable. I don't know if you came up with this set, but kudos to you if you did. Even if you didn't, kudos to you for bringing it into the discussion.
EV's are not completely mine. I asked in chat one day what the minimum investment in Spdef was to avoid defensive Mega Venusaur from breaking a sub, because I knew that someone ran a set like that before. I added 1 HP to make it odd, to give one more sub (useful because the set requires spamming subs to waste turns vs. some things). I came across someone running Whirlpool/Perish song Azumarill before, and did dexsearches to see if anything else learned Perish Song + a trapping move. Gengar is likely best at this strategy out of everything that does learn this, because he has the highest speed and typically runs sets that lure trap bait such as Chansey.

Gengar learns both Infestation and Mean Look. Both moves have their merit, but I like Infestation because it's not all that unusual for the combined residual damage to bring something into a range where Shadow Ball can finish them (which is preferred to Perish trapping if possible).
 
Is this still happening? Shack, if you're going to keep going with this, please provide at least two replays of your Gengar beating an Aegislash 1v1 in a competitive match.

I don't think it can be consistently done, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.
 
I
Gengar has a HUGE support movepool. Both Gengar and Alakazam are outclassed as all out attackers by Greninja. However, Gengar can run plenty of support moves such as Will o Wisp, Destiny Bond, Taunt, Perish Song, Haze, Trick, Disable, etc; many of which are uncommon. And he can run the support moves alongside Shadow Ball and your choice of coverage moves.

Oh, and for those of you who miss Mega Gengar, this set is a bit gimmicky but does a ton of work:

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 144 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Perish Song
- Infestation
- Shadow Ball

EV's are to maximize speed and prevent defensive Mega Venusaur from breaking his subs. This set naturally lures Chansey, under the threat of wrecking something with a Shadow Ball. If the opponent gives you one free turn with whatever they switch into you, such as using a healing move or setting rocks, it dies. It also can be used to eliminate passive setup sweepers like Suicune and Clefable, since many will try to set up on you under the threat of Shadow Ball or a coverage option.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-128883268 <-- skip to turn 13

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-128998637 <-- skip to turn 20

Perish Song is also one of the best ways to put a stop to Baton Pass/Quick Pass teams, even more so if they don't see it coming.
I like this set, but what move do you do first? Set up a sub? And what about replacing Shadow ball with Protect? That almost gaurentees a win using perish song. Kinda folds to anything fast with taunt though. And would there be any other item to run besides Sludge or Focus Sash (I know not to run focus sash if we're running Sub).
 
It really depends on the situation. Sub eases prediction against A LOT of things, including pursuit trappers, things that you aren't sure if they'd stay in on you or not, etc. No reason to replace the move for anything else.

Shadow ball > Protect, because you also want it to be able to kill things you can't perish trap. Much better to have an option to pick something off if fighting a more offensive team. Don't run sash. Just dont.
 
What do you guys prefer, the sub willo set or the sub perish set? Just for clarification the perish set is listed above. It's sub, perish song, infestation/mean look and shadow ball. The other is sub, will o wisp, shadow ball and taunt/disable. I was using the sub willo set a lot yesterday with disable in favour of taunt. I really like it because of the many reasons mentioned in this topic. You can cripple and run from physical attackers, disable allows you to troll a wide variety of support mons that only carry one attacking move etc. However, I started using the sub perish set earlier after reading about it here and it is so much fun. Not many things in this game are both effective and trolly fun. So which set do you guys think is the most effective overall? Obviously a lot of stuff depends on what your team needs, but I find both of these sets have a good place on my team and I'm having a hard time deciding which is best. I'm kind of leaning to the sub willo set because the perish trapping, while extremely good for certain pokemon, seems a little situational.
 
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Karxrida

Eventide (art by @kzhjp)
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
What do you guys prefer, the sub willo set or the sub perish set? Just for clarification the perish set is listed above. It's sub, perish song, infestation/mean look and shadow ball. The other is sub, will o wisp, shadow ball and taunt/disable. I was using the sub willo set a lot yesterday with disable in favour of taunt. I really like it because of the many reasons mentioned in this topic. You can cripple and run from physical attackers, disable allows you to troll a wide variety of support mons that only carry one attacking move etc. However, I started using the sub perish set earlier after reading about it here and it is so much fun. Not many things in this game are both effective and trolly fun. So which set do you guys think is the most effective overall? Obviously a lot of stuff depends on what your team needs, but I find both of these sets have a good place on my team and I'm having a hard time deciding which is best. I'm kind of leaning to the sub willo set because the perish trapping, while extremely good for certain pokemon, seems a little situational.
SubWill-O is probably better since it cripples most sweepers, lets you actually beat Bisharp (Subbing or Burning it as it Sucker Punches is hilarious), and can actually beat Stall teams (Perish Song only forces them out since they're not trapped).
 
What do you guys prefer, the sub willo set or the sub perish set? Just for clarification the perish set is listed above. It's sub, perish song, infestation/mean look and shadow ball. The other is sub, will o wisp, shadow ball and taunt/disable. I was using the sub willo set a lot yesterday with disable in favour of taunt. I really like it because of the many reasons mentioned in this topic. You can cripple and run from physical attackers, disable allows you to troll a wide variety of support mons that only carry one attacking move etc. However, I started using the sub perish set earlier after reading about it here and it is so much fun. Not many things in this game are both effective and trolly fun. So which set do you guys think is the most effective overall? Obviously a lot of stuff depends on what your team needs, but I find both of these sets have a good place on my team and I'm having a hard time deciding which is best. I'm kind of leaning to the sub willo set because the perish trapping, while extremely good for certain pokemon, seems a little situational.
I prefer the Sub, WoW, Disable, SB set. The trap set does work, but in most cases you could have KO'd the pokemon in all those turns already. I too swapped Taunt for Disable because it allows for more survivability. Disabling a move (usually Knock Off) on the turn they used it gives you an extra turn of burn damage and it also makes them play around your mind games because they will fear the disable on the next pkmn they switch out to. Sometimes it is nice to stall them out and get 4 subs going while they break each one only to use Disable on the 5th turn and completely screw them over while forcing them to take over half HP in burn damage, putting them in KO range of SB.
 
I thought gengar already had it...now sludge bomb has no use unless in doubles
Sludge Bomb has higher poison chance, so in sets using Substitute + Leftovers + Pain Split it may allow you to stall out opponents easier with poison damage ticking in (if you don't want to run Focus Blast or don't need it or you may even drop Shadow Ball and rely on Sludge Bomb as your STAB). But on all out offensive sets Sludge Wave is indeed superior.
 
Im still favoring sludgebomb/focusmiss over sludgewave at least on subdisable. That 30% poison chance feels way to valuable to be passed by. All out offensive Gengars should use it tough.

And yep is a 5th gen move. The only thing is that now it can be used for vgc as kalosborn sludgewave gengar. But thats a whole new bussiness.
 
Im still favoring sludgebomb/focusmiss over sludgewave at least on subdisable. That 30% poison chance feels way to valuable to be passed by. All out offensive Gengars should use it tough.

And yep is a 5th gen move. The only thing is that now it can be used for vgc as kalosborn sludgewave gengar. But thats a whole new bussiness.
People prefer Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb because Sludge Wave is Gengar's only means of doing damage to Chesnaught outside of Dazzling Gleam.
 
Gengar has a HUGE support movepool. Both Gengar and Alakazam are outclassed as all out attackers by Greninja. However, Gengar can run plenty of support moves such as Will o Wisp, Destiny Bond, Taunt, Perish Song, Haze, Trick, Disable, etc; many of which are uncommon. And he can run the support moves alongside Shadow Ball and your choice of coverage moves.

Oh, and for those of you who miss Mega Gengar, this set is a bit gimmicky but does a ton of work:

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 144 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Perish Song
- Infestation
- Shadow Ball

EV's are to maximize speed and prevent defensive Mega Venusaur from breaking his subs. This set naturally lures Chansey, under the threat of wrecking something with a Shadow Ball. If the opponent gives you one free turn with whatever they switch into you, such as using a healing move or setting rocks, it dies. It also can be used to eliminate passive setup sweepers like Suicune and Clefable, since many will try to set up on you under the threat of Shadow Ball or a coverage option.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-128883268 <-- skip to turn 13

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-128998637 <-- skip to turn 20

Perish Song is also one of the best ways to put a stop to Baton Pass/Quick Pass teams, even more so if they don't see it coming.
So I've been bashing stall breaker Gengar a bunch lately as it is suuuuuper situational, but this set actually looks like it might do the job a lot better. One of the major problems regular stall breaker Geng has is that it only slows things down for stall. This set pretty much crushes it. If you can catch the stall team's cleric with this set, it's GG.
 
So I've been bashing stall breaker Gengar a bunch lately as it is suuuuuper situational, but this set actually looks like it might do the job a lot better. One of the major problems regular stall breaker Geng has is that it only slows things down for stall. This set pretty much crushes it. If you can catch the stall team's cleric with this set, it's GG.
How is this any less situational than standard stallbreaker Gengar? At least the standard isn't COMPLETELY useless against offense. Perish Trap Gengar is terrible. ostrom68 who apparently laddered with it managed a spectacular 55% win ratio against players who seem to think switching Latios into Scizor and running CM / Rain Dance Manaphy are good strategies. All Gengar sets have their own issues, but Perish trap has never been a good option on something so frail. If you want to beat stall just run Gothitelle who can at least check SOME things on balance and offense.
 
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