Gifts of the Gods

[Renegade Enchidio]

Let's not forget Shuckle is Stealth Rock weak. The fact that its weak to Stealth Rock heavily effects every Pokemon. Shuckle is like Sturdinja: Impossible to stop if you're not prepared for it, but Shuckle CAN be stopped even without it. Taunt is an example of something that disables it.

 

[Wendig0]

I actually agree that Shuckle should probably be suspected. No matter how passive it is, you can't kill the thing. A +2 dragonite outrage (default base attack) can't even 2hko it through leftovers recovery! (I should have saved more replays but this is the only one I have)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-450025426


Plus it's only hit super effectively by rock, steel and water-type hits. With contrary shell smash it becomes even tougher to take down to the point that the only common way to destroy it is with critical hit, status and/or phasing. The less-common way to halfway disable the thing is with trick, but even then it's so bulky it's guaranteed to set up sticky web and toxic a few people before it goes down. I don't run shell smash myself, since I have to give up something else I like, but I've seen what it can do. The set I use is:

Impenetrable (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Rest
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Knock off is great, and I haven't seen it mentioned at least in the last 30 posts. I should actually replace sticky with contrary since nothing can ohko shuckle fro full health. Taking out leftovers recovery is really something that offensive mons love.
OK, so you can shut it down with taunt or trick, you can stop it from statusing you or knocking off your items with sub. The real problem with Shuckle is that it's so centralizing and there's like 0 opportunity cost in using it over some other bulky mon. A team with a shuckle will outperform the same team with another mon in its place sinmply because Shuckle can outlast so many things, spread status, or put enormous pressure on hazard removers. I think the only defogger that can deal with Shuckle is Scizor and the only spinner is Excadrill and both of those aren't really that common in this meta. I guess a sand-rush Drill gifted with 180 atk might be useful though (hmm).
In short, Shuckle is great for pressuring almost all defensive mons and paving the way for a sweep from one of your offensive mons. It fits great even on HO teams because of this. Indeed, Shuckle's bulk is so good that you don't really have to worry about losing momentum since Shuckle's almost guaranteed to stick around for a long, long time.

Anything that carries taunt is going to destroy Shuckle. Plus, its main issue is passive damage since its defenses are so high. Whirlwind also give it trouble along with Keldeo and Serperior. Even after it sets up, it need to timer stall in order to get a kill. Any sort-of phasing or stall-breaker absolutely destroys Shuckle, along with a few mons such as Keldeo. I've been on the higher end, peaking at #3 and I never saw a Shuckle over a Sableye in the higher end. Shuckle is good for lower ladder and has a lower skill cap while Sableye has more of a high skill cap and good for high ladder. The only things that threaten Sableye are mold-breaker stallers (which don't exist) and Scrappy, which is Swellow. Shuckle is much better at setting up hazards such as sticky web while maybe taking a kill on the way with infestation.

Also, I want to talk about a mon that has a lot of use with Deo-A: Klefki. Klefki on the hp slot can neutralize many threats against the opposing team and can spike-stack. Thunder wave cripples any sort-of sweepers and its decent bulk help it survive a hit and maybe get off a bit of damage. Gliscor, which gives Deo-A teams a fair bit of trouble, was powerless against Klefki while it stacked spikes and had magnet rise. Klefki is probably the pokemon that best supports Deo-A. It also has almost the same hp as Deo-A, so it isn't crippled by it as much and fire is extremely rare on the ladder with rain teams running around. These combinations along with Ditto allow Deo-A's crippling defenses to not be any issue when giving stats.

The only pokemon I think that should have a suspect potentially (although I'm still extremely unsure of it) is Sableye. Sableye tears through HO and Deo-A teams because it doesn't have a good answer for it besides Swellow. Taunt prevents set-up, it can't be stall-broken, Serp is severely hurt by foul play and knock-off, it is immune to priority like espeed, and it's a spin and hazard blocker. The only thing that threatens Sableye is Swellow, and that has flaws such as its flying type and how it severely loses to Smeargle, Pikachu, Talonflame, Heracross, etc. This massive wall severely restricts team-building because it wastes a slot on HO for Swellow and Stall can't do anything really god against it besides Mold Breaker TStall (which doesn't exist) or intercept with with your own Sableye. This is enough of a reason to suspect imho.

TL;DR Shuckle has many answers, Sableye doesn't, and Klefki is awesome for Deo-A

 

[Petersen]

Smeargle is pretty good, pair it with Deoxys-A and Fake Out plus Espeed kills a lot of mons, you can put a silk scarf

 

[Jajoken]

I think people have done enough debunking of the "Shuckle is unstoppable" statement but I'm just going to throw my hat in the ring and list a bunch of really good Pokemon that are already great in OU, benefit from multiple possible stat boosts and can crush Shuckle without even running a niche counter set.

• (Mega) Scizor (SDs up to +6, immune to Toxic, can Roost off pitiful Infestation/Knock Off damage)
• Mega Sableye (bounces back Toxic, takes pitiful damage from anything else and Roosts it off, can viably run Taunt or Calm Mind)
• Skarmory (immune to Toxic, sets up hazards on Shuckle, Defogs Shuckle's hazards, can Whirlwind Shuckle out, can run Taunt)
• Clefable (Magic Guard is immune to both Toxic and Infestation, sets up Calm Mind, recovers off any sad damage Shuckle can do)
• Serperior (freely sets up Sub, gains a ton of health with Leech Seed, easily gets up to +6)
• Jirachi (Wish sets recover off damage, Sub + Toxic sets only need a few flinches to prevent Shuckle from Resting)
• Suicune (sets up Calm Mind, recovers with Rest, PP stalls Shuckle easily with Pressure + Rest)
• Anything with Taunt (people bring up Mental Herb but that only works once and removes your Leftovers recovery)
• Anything with Substitute (Infestation can't break the Sub on a Pokemon x4 weak to it with minimum HP/SpDef EVs + IVs: 0 SpA Shuckle Bug Buzz (20 bp) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Malamar: 36-48 (12.7 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO)

Shuckle is the lamest kind of stall Pokemon: it's nigh-unkillable but so passive that the things it's supposed to stall just stall it out instead. It takes a while to beat most of the time, but any good team is guaranteed to beat it without really going out of its way to try. If this thing gets suspected I'll eat my four hats.

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

I also like the fact that so many unloved (or unappreciated ) pokemon like electrode gets huge buffs
Has 140 base speed
With deo-A spa of 180 (huge change from its initial 80) can lead to awesome volt turning with a u-turning beedril in def slot cos it gets 1 shot any time it gets hit
Nice synergy there, and deo-A can occupy the spDef slot as well
End result : god like atk , spa and spe

Im no expert but this is a very VERY creative and unrestricting metathat has multiple good teams, better than the landerous-therian spam ou or the darkrai spam uber

OH... Landorus cannot be escaped from... it isn't quite that simple.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

I faced this monster on a Deoxys-A team, and the only reason I won is because they foolishly sacked this. Landorus is already a nuke with 145 base Attack, and then you decide to fix up that speed tier... Yep, that's a frightening foe.

...But there's actually something that I want to draw attention to. Suicune.
I made a post about it a few pages back, and I can confirm that it is actually a monster with 150 base SpA. (It's not getting the love it deserves)
You know all of those Shuckle counters listed above?
Suicune beats all of them except Serperior. Not even joking with that one. Let's go through the list.
Mega-Sableye gets PP stalled by pressure, and burned. This matchup comes down to crits, usually.
Mega Scizor gets Scalded to oblivion, obviously.
Same thing with Skarmory.
Serperior just Leaf Storms it and is done with... but has to be wary of Ice Beam when it switches in.
Clefable is a little iffy... but unless it's SpDef Unaware, Scald will HURT. Even then, a burn will make stalling out Suicune much harder... Magic Guard just loses to Suicune.
Jirachi also does not like super-powered Scalds.
Suicune can respond to a Taunt with an attack, though it does make life difficult, admittedly.
Shuckle... is kind of hopeless against this. Maybe the worst matchup it could ever have, really.

In a more regular meta, this thing would be a black hole. But here, it's merely very powerful. (Other bulky waters can try this... but Suicune has the legendary bulk to make this spectacular against many threats.)

 

[Pipotchi]

I actually agree that Shuckle should probably be suspected. No matter how passive it is, you can't kill the thing. A +2 dragonite outrage (default base attack) can't even 2hko it through leftovers recovery! (I should have saved more replays but this is the only one I have)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-450025426


Plus it's only hit super effectively by rock, steel and water-type hits. With contrary shell smash it becomes even tougher to take down to the point that the only common way to destroy it is with critical hit, status and/or phasing. The less-common way to halfway disable the thing is with trick, but even then it's so bulky it's guaranteed to set up sticky web and toxic a few people before it goes down. I don't run shell smash myself, since I have to give up something else I like, but I've seen what it can do. The set I use is:

Impenetrable (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Rest
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Knock off is great, and I haven't seen it mentioned at least in the last 30 posts. I should actually replace sticky with contrary since nothing can ohko shuckle fro full health. Taking out leftovers recovery is really something that offensive mons love.
OK, so you can shut it down with taunt or trick, you can stop it from statusing you or knocking off your items with sub. The real problem with Shuckle is that it's so centralizing and there's like 0 opportunity cost in using it over some other bulky mon. A team with a shuckle will outperform the same team with another mon in its place sinmply because Shuckle can outlast so many things, spread status, or put enormous pressure on hazard removers. I think the only defogger that can deal with Shuckle is Scizor and the only spinner is Excadrill and both of those aren't really that common in this meta. I guess a sand-rush Drill gifted with 180 atk might be useful though (hmm).
In short, Shuckle is great for pressuring almost all defensive mons and paving the way for a sweep from one of your offensive mons. It fits great even on HO teams because of this. Indeed, Shuckle's bulk is so good that you don't really have to worry about losing momentum since Shuckle's almost guaranteed to stick around for a long, long time.

but this is an example of people being unwilling to play the meta and would rather just hit things with large attacking stats for fun. shuckle stops that, so its going to beat a lot of low ladder teams. everyone should be prepared to beat shuckle. and the sad thing is, theres no hidden fear that shuckle will do something spectacular to beat a mon that would otherwise beat it. if you put a shuckle counter on your team eg: any stallbreaker worth its salt, it will absolutely pull its weight every single time you run into shuckle whilst also providing further utility because shuckle is pathetically one-dimensional.
heres some mons that beat or phase shuckle while either removing or abusing its hazards: bisharp, mega sableye, mega diancie, excadrill, skarmory, crobat, serperior, mega absol, scizor, mega scizor, mega beedrill, mew, xatu, empoleon, espeon and forretress. you can make any of these work in the meta to beat shuckle.
god forbid shuckle went for the shell smash set and became even more useless past its average role as a hazard setter. then you can completely ignore it with ANY pokemon on your team with Rest or Substitute, which is one of my usual solutions. Or you can start using other things that just break it such as jirachi, manaphy, clefable, sigilpyh, etc.

and again, vs stall shuckle does nothing. it will never get past mega sableye.


turning this on a total 180, the shuckle set ppl should be using IMO is a specially defensive encore toxic set as a pivot, with rest. use it as something that can set up stealth rock and act as your all-purpose special sponge (since chansey is gone) and make the most of its ability to do things like eat swellow's boomburst.

 

[JsKingBoo]

I've been messing around with Wondertrio, and arceus-water > togekiss then mess with a few sets and you're good to go. I know it's a new metagame and everything but I peaked at rank 15 (humble brag xd) without even using my brain. I'm not a good player by any means, but I win because people just outplay themselves. they predict me to switch into shedinja too much so it really throws them off when I act like a retard and don't, lol.

HP/ATK/DEF/SPA/SPD/SPE: sableye-M, shedinja, seismitoad, dugtrio, spd talonflame, arceus-W

some adjustments I made were Knock Off > Foul Play, special bias duggy with sucker punch, U-Turn > Bulk Up...

hard counters threats such as shuckle, pikachu (idk why people run that thing), deoxys-A, serperior, almost every arceus set, rotom-w, nearly every single passive wall, most SD+Espeed arceus sets, magnezone

checks threats such as diancie, talonflame, nidoking/queen, heracross, opposing sableye, groudon-p, ditto (if ur good with transform control), kyurem, utility arceus sets, scarf victini, most jirachis

only meta threat it has trouble with is ramparos and swellow just because they kill everything that stands in their way. out of the two, swellow is manageable but you pretty much have 1 chance to predict wrong and your team starts to fall apart

it's a really fun team to use, but I expect it to fall out of meta very quickly so I'm putting this here before it completely drops out lol

 

[Funbot28]

I have been using WonderTrio myself, although I prefer Ho-Oh as the God as it helps breaks down many threats such as Serperior, Xerneas and is nice at breaking down opposing stall teams as well (especially with Mega Sableye which can otherwise be a pain to WonderTrio in general). I also use Skamory as my Deffoger as it provides nice support with its Steel typing in dealing with Mega Diancie which is honestly the biggest threat to Wondertrio. I also feel Quagsire is more important in this meta compared to Seismitoad as Unaware can be really useful in dealing with Talonflame and Ekiller, two major threats to stall teams in general. Here is my team I am using atm (although it does have a difficult matchup with braindead Deo-A HO):

Hide

Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Baton Pass
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Atk / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
- Thunder Wave

sin(pi) u can add to sample teams if u want

 

[vegeta00007]

My first sample team
1. It isnt perfect
2. I feel ive utilized deo-A stats effectively but u guys might know better alternatives

Enjoy

Probopass @ Custap Berry (60->50 hp not too bad)
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Power Gem
Best low hp wall i could find (though shuckle is better at walling)
And probopass also has access to volt switch which my team desperately needs
Being my specially def pivot it has 150 base spd
Power gem is for the talons

Hell id say put 150 hp from giratina on this thing instead of shuckle as it isnt weak to rocks and imune to toxic
Jk shuckle could be better but it has the invaluable volt switch and thunderwave
Talonflame @ choice band (81->180 atk awesome)
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Steel Wing
Just power
Nuff said

Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Band (no change)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Knock Off

Revenge killer
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-A Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 243-287 (81.8 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If talonflame has taken any recoi/rocks/lifeorb damage before this it would be a 1hko
+2 priority extreme speed outspeeds talonflame any day

Electrode @ Focus Sash (80->180 spa whooaa)
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Taunt
- Signal Beam
- Substitute
Not sure about sash but just put it on coz i dint want to risk specs
Great volt switcher with 140 base speed and 180 spa

Furfrou @ Leftovers (90->20 spD ) :(
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Cotton Guard
- Rest
- Return
My physically defensive pivot
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 161-191 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
When cotton guarded
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 66-78 (18.6 - 22%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
The most damaging talonflame (that i run)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 82-97 (23.1 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
And remember, u have rest as well
Watach as talon recoils itself to its doom

Just be careful not to switch this thing into any special attackers
As it has 20 base spD

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- aqua tail
- Dragon Dance
- toxic
- Crunch

Gyarados...
U can replace this with any other power house
But i thought a mold breaker tox would be useful vs M sabalye
Ampharos would be a bit better tho i think as its mega reduces its speed (which is neglected in this metagame) it too has mold breaker but the only reason i put this guy in is its ability to be a threat with dragin dance and its intimidate is useful as well
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 228-268 (45.2 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
If u are not in +2 just procede to toxic and beware of willowisp

 

[vegeta00007]

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 185-225 (36.7 - 44.6%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
M sableye reaĺly is broken
The most powerful(185 atk) using a mose with 125 power has 0.4% chance to 2hko a pokemon who has a friking magic bounce and a single weakness
And done even think of talking about prankster willowisp at the first turn
Lol
Phew finally
Sabelye put to rest
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Sableye: 300-354 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Music to my ears

252+ Atk Choice Band Rampardos Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 372-438 (73.9 - 87%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Sry for so many posts tho

 

[tommytt22]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle in Rain: 438-516 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Thats with 150 health on shuckle and 180 sp attack on politoed. Doesn't really make sense having politoed on a deoxys team but at least we know its possible to ohko that beast even with max sp defense.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle in Rain: 542-638 (107.7 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

If it is physically defensive then there's no chance.
Possibly a good anti lead?

 

[flufi]

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Infestation
- Rest
- Toxic

In Gift of the Gods, many Pokemon are given the ability to play roles and do things that were never possible before in other metagames.
Swellow can play as a Special Sweeper instead of Physical, fragile Pokemon can play as bulky attackers or supporters, and Pokemon that are defensive yet weak attacking-wise can hit like a truck. Although, not every "good" Pokemon in the metagame has to attain a new role. Some Pokemon can use the better granted base stat to do their original job more efficiently. One of the Pokemon, in that case, is Shuckle.
Shuckle has the highest Defense and Special Defense stats in all of Pokemon, and has been holding that trophy for years. The one problem that Shuckle has, and a big reason why it's usage is quite low, is it's HP stat. Shuckle, though having the highest defensive stats in the game, also ties with 6 other Pokemon as the Pokemon with the 3rd least HP; That's right, an overwhelmingly low 20 HP. This alone completely ruins Shuckle's big chance at being a great wall, because it's horrible HP balances with it's outstanding defense, making it a pretty "meh" Pokemon. Although, Gift of the Gods gives Shuckle whole new potential. Let's take the Pokemon with the highest HP in the Uber tier, Giratina. With 150 HP, you may imagine that having that well above average HP on Shuckle would make it one of the most menacing defensive Pokemon to exist. Well, Gift of the Gods lets that happen. Let's say you put Giratina on your team, as your God, and you put Shuckle in the first slot. Going by the stat positions in the metagame, whatever is in the 1st slot will attain Giratina's HP stat. And in this situation, that Pokemon is Shuckle. Now, with an absolutely outrageous bulk of 150 HP, 230 DEF, and 230 SPD, Shuckle completely and utterly walls almost every boost-less offensive threat. And, if that ludicrous bulk isn't enough to suffice for you, Contrary + Shell Smash raises it's Defense and Special Defense by +1 every time you use it. Rest allows you to heal back any HP you may have lost overtime, and it also allows you to remove any status conditions that will eventually knock Shuckle out. And of course, since Shuckle naturally has sickening Attack and Special Attack, and since Contrary + Shell Smash just makes it worse, Infestation and Toxic are to slowly, but surely, whittle down the opponent. All of this combined, and you have an absolute beast that has very few checks. Happy battling!

 

[Scarf]

idk how people can actually think Shuckle is broken.. Yes, it can wall quite a few things but it has such crippling weaknesses that are so easy to exploit:

1) Trash moveset - Shuckles, from what I've seen and heard, use moves like rocks, shell smash, toxic, infestation, rest, encore, substitute (just pick and choose ur moves from that. Odds are I've forgotten something but w/e). It has 0 offensive pressure and is totally helpless against Taunt or Magic Bounce. Common mons like Sableye just shut it down completely. You might as well have brought 5 mons if you bring a shuckle vs stall / semi-stall. Poorly built offense in theory get decimated by this but it has nothing going for it besides being able to wall the enemy. It can't even harm anything outside of using toxic / infestation recoil which can be played around so easily (send your steel vs shuckle / recovery respectively).

2) 0 Offensive presence - What can this mon do vs a sub? it can be set up on as easily as it can set up on you. Combined with its poor typing and offensive capabilities, nearly anything can duel it once they've both set up for instance. Can't break a sub to save its life. Its so exploitable its funny. Just look at this: 0 SpA Shuckle Infestation vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior: 14-18 (4.8 - 6.1%). One of the most popular set up sweeper in the meta, serperior. Its weak to bug and it barely scrapes a 5HKO on its substitute. You set up faster than it can and have Taunt + Leech Seed to wear it down easily.

And of course, since Shuckle naturally has sickening Attack and Special Attack, and since Contrary + Shell Smash just makes it worse, Infestation and Toxic are to slowly, but surely, whittle down the opponent. All of this combined, and you have an absolute beast that has very few checks. Happy battling!

Counters:

,

,

,

, Any Steel/Poison-type (can't be Toxic'd), Any Ghost-type (can't be trapped)

Things that can handily deal with Shuckle:

 

[Dark Mage Ewan]

Why are people even debating Shuckle, its outclassed by M-Sableye and Diancie from the top of my mind, has a lot of checks, is set-up fodder, even with encore, has a bad defensive typing, HO deal with it easy with Mega Heracross for example, balance sets up on it and stall just laughs. If anything Shuckle is worth the SPD slot for hazzard spreading and fast encore not actually trying to kill things.

I was about to make a large post about how HO was off the hook and really unbalanced, people can bring up how shitty it is that Deo-A gives bad defences, which is not really as much of a downside as most people think it is since most good HO teams have either Rhyperior on Sp.Def, Ditto or Gengar in the Def slot or Ditto, Rotom or Sableye on the HP slot.

However I will refrain from doing it because I know it's a battle I cannot win, the benefits of a high ATK beast with good speed like Duggy (even Smeargle or Pikachu can make use of it), the OP Specs Swellow and fast Mega Camerupt or Heracross heavily outweight the negatives and let it steam roll basicly everything, Lugia Stall, Giratina Stall, Arceus Balance, Xerneas Offense, Xerneas Balance, Arceus-Steel Balance and basicly everything in between. And people love it so they wont let it be banned, I played a super generic Deo-A HO team myself and boy did I steamroll teams like there was no tomorrow, it wasn't fun but I did win.

 

[jamashawalker]

I was about to make a large post about how HO was off the hook and really unbalanced, people can bring up how shitty it is that Deo-A gives bad defences, which is not really as much of a downside as most people think it is since most good HO teams have either Rhyperior on Sp.Def, Ditto or Gengar in the Def slot or Ditto, Rotom or Sableye on the HP slot.

However I will refrain from doing it because I know it's a battle I cannot win, the benefits of a high ATK beast with good speed like Duggy (even Smeargle or Pikachu can make use of it), the OP Specs Swellow and fast Mega Camerupt or Heracross heavily outweight the negatives and let it steam roll basicly everything, Lugia Stall, Giratina Stall, Arceus Balance, Xerneas Offense, Xerneas Balance, Arceus-Steel Balance and basicly everything in between. And people love it so they wont let it be banned, I played a super generic Deo-A HO team myself and boy did I steamroll teams like there was no tomorrow, it wasn't fun but I did win.

I agree with you about deoxys- a running rampant and allowing other pokemon to run rampant. Id like to think though that if it was banned people will immediately just switch to normal deoxys,arceus, or kyurem white for their God. Obviously all of them are weaker but getting with a 150-170 Atk/spAtk boomburst/Espeed still hurts. And camerupt/heracross can still keep that sexy 150 base speed. Ultimately doing something about deoxys-a will only make people go with a slightly waterdowned version that won't be as bad

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Why are people even debating Shuckle, its outclassed by M-Sableye and Diancie from the top of my mind, has a lot of checks, is set-up fodder, even with encore, has a bad defensive typing, HO deal with it easy with Mega Heracross for example, balance sets up on it and stall just laughs. If anything Shuckle is worth the SPD slot for hazzard spreading and fast encore not actually trying to kill things.

I was about to make a large post about how HO was off the hook and really unbalanced, people can bring up how shitty it is that Deo-A gives bad defences, which is not really as much of a downside as most people think it is since most good HO teams have either Rhyperior on Sp.Def, Ditto or Gengar in the Def slot or Ditto, Rotom or Sableye on the HP slot.

However I will refrain from doing it because I know it's a battle I cannot win, the benefits of a high ATK beast with good speed like Duggy (even Smeargle or Pikachu can make use of it), the OP Specs Swellow and fast Mega Camerupt or Heracross heavily outweight the negatives and let it steam roll basicly everything, Lugia Stall, Giratina Stall, Arceus Balance, Xerneas Offense, Xerneas Balance, Arceus-Steel Balance and basicly everything in between. And people love it so they wont let it be banned, I played a super generic Deo-A HO team myself and boy did I steamroll teams like there was no tomorrow, it wasn't fun but I did win.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Diancie's near the top of that HP list; I'd suspect it to be somewhere on the 6th or 7th choice. That being said, the slot is pretty variable between a good number of low HP tanks.

I disagree about Deoxys-A HO being overpowered. It is indeed very powerful, giving not one, but three stupidly powerful stats to your team, but the defenses of the opposing tanks have shot up, as well. As frightening as 150 Speed Mega Hera is (it is definitely able to sweep, as I can attest to) or the power of 180 Sp. Attack Serperior, Deoxys-A teams hardly get off scot-free. They have one really big weakness that cannot be avoided.

You simply CANNOT make a defensive core with a Deoxys-A team. Here's the beef; the opponent sticks a mon that handles your current threat, and asks you to show a switch-in. Other teams likely have at least one (for most threats), but a Deoxys-A (or N, for that matter) teams are outta luck. Whenever a Deoxys-A team really gets threatened by an opponent's offense, there isn't much it can hide behind. You have one switch-in at most, and most likely, it's going to turn into fodder.

The reason that Deoxys-A teams are powerful is that they can avoid that by continually pressuring their opponent. And with three very offensive slots, they can do that with ease. The thing with Deoxys-A teams are is that no two are really the same (if built from the ground-up, that is). A team that gets destroyed by one such team can handle another one with ease. But you can't exactly counterpick your opponent on ladder, so it's always a bit of a gamble using one.

 

[Schpoonman]

To be fair, you typically get 4 offensive juggernauts on Deo-A, since, you know, you still have Deoxys-Attack in Defense or SpDef, but the prevalence of newly powerful priority does a number on Deo-A's viability. Talonflame itself is almost enough to invalidate the archetype by itself. Most of the time, you only end up with three or so really fast threats, so even a good Scarfer with firepower is enough to undo a lot of teams. I currently only running two priority moves on my (admittedly bad) team, so a Talonflame on an Arceus squad is enough to really mess up my team, especially given how damn bulky Arceus, so if hazards are down I'm REALLY screwed as my best answer (Superpower/Psycho Boost -> Extreme Speed with Sash Deo-A) isn't available.

There's something to be said for going a little unorthodox with team set-up like Skarm on Speed so you get an insanely fast Taunt/Defog, but now you're starting to cripple basic Deo-A composition to patch its weaknesses. Deo-A is fine for the moment.

 

[Bright Powder Cena]

I think he meant that Stag isn't COMPLETELY banned but instead "any Stag mons are automatically recognized as an Uber" because Stag itself is banned in OU. In that case I agree.

This doesn't seem to be the case. I've run into a couple of STag mon + Arceus teams, and this http://pastebin.com/t50mmwht (hypothetical) team appears to legal in GotG.

 

[average fella]

mindless deoa ho etc etc etc, i didnt use shuckle so its notable and its a new ladder so imma get replaced in 5 seconds anyway

peaks mean nothing

paste

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit

Linoone @ Choice Band
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Switcheroo

Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Extreme Speed
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Electrode @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast

Fairly self-explanatory. Bisharp doesn't lose a TON of bulk and pursuit trapping spinblockers and generally stopping most Gira-o sets is a fantastic niche. It also helps discourage webs shuckle from laying webs. Linoone's set is basically banded espeed+kill the thing that resists espeed. The fling BD is literally for predicting resting shuckles, basically it's so you can not be a liability vs shit like that.i literally forgot linoone gets switcheroo help me. Somewhat standard deoa, sash is because it has pretty good hazard control in the form of the exca lead. Electrode is basically raikou on steroids, and to help with this team's problem with burn switchins. Exca is literally just because i really had no idea what i wanted to use to lay rocks so i just used a suicide lead that could toxic and lay rocks on the m-sabs i saw everywhere and it worked moderately well. Heracross was honestly the first mon i thought of as "powerful boy who is very slow" but you probably could have a 1:1 replacement with fast crawdaunt. You will have an even harder time with burns than you do already and outpacing talonflame (one of the main benefits of fast daunt) isn't a good benefit at all, considering that you kill it with linoone anyway

distinct problems with this team are ghostceus, fairyceus, and shell smash shuckle if you crit literally 0 rock blasts from hera. burn is also a problem for this team, if you don't preserve excadrill which it's often impractical to do, electrode will die way quicker than you want it to thanks to hazards. it's notably the reason i opted for pre-mega guts instead of moxie on hera. talonflame is luckily much less of a concern than most other deoa ho teams with the dedicated rocks lead and cb linoone, hell even if you don't have rocks up you ohko talonflame guaranteed, even if they are to run bulk. (252+ Atk Choice Band Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 364-430 (101.3 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

this isn't a fully optimized team at all, feel absolutely free to change up sets and spreads :D

EDIT: PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT SHITTY FLING BD SET. I LITERALLY FORGOT THAT IT CAN USE SWITCHEROO TO ACTUALLY USE A BAND PROPERLY WHILE BEING ABLE TO PROPERLY PUNISH M-SAB WITH PLAY ROUGH

 

[Towerdepths]

To be fair, you typically get 4 offensive juggernauts on Deo-A, since, you know, you still have Deoxys-Attack in Defense or SpDef, but the prevalence of newly powerful priority does a number on Deo-A's viability. Talonflame itself is almost enough to invalidate the archetype by itself. Most of the time, you only end up with three or so really fast threats, so even a good Scarfer with firepower is enough to undo a lot of teams. I currently only running two priority moves on my (admittedly bad) team, so a Talonflame on an Arceus squad is enough to really mess up my team, especially given how damn bulky Arceus, so if hazards are down I'm REALLY screwed as my best answer (Superpower/Psycho Boost -> Extreme Speed with Sash Deo-A) isn't available.

Talonflame, admittedly, can be a huge problem to Deo-A hyper-offensive teams (which I used to get to a score of 1350 by the time of this post... take that as you will). At the very least, they force said teams to give up at least one 'mon, or shut the team down at the very worst. Noting this, there are a few solid ways to get around that Brave Bird/Acrobatics issue. First off; Extreme Speed Light Ball Pikachu. I cannot say how useful this thing has been in decimating teams. Sure, it's dead meat against anything with a faster ES or is a moderately fast Rock/Steel/Ghost. But with its 1008 ATK (after Light Ball), it completely destroys most walls, as well as some common threats that could otherwise be a problem against my Deo-A HO. Unless that Talonflame is packing a Sash or decent defensive investment, Pikachu's E-Speed cleanly OHKOs it... and that's not even considering Brave Bird recoil, SR, or my Deo-A's sacrificial E-Speed (should it wind up facing Talonflame). Secondly is a Focus Sash. So long as Rocks aren't up (and let's face it, not many people use mons other than Shuckle or Smeargle to lay SR in this meta) I can let my current 'mon take the BB and respond with some sort of offensive move from 1 HP. It might not end Talonflame, but it opens up a clean revenge kill from Deo-A or Pikachu. I find Talonflame to be irritating, very much so, but I strongly believe it is not enough to invalidate the archetype as you say.

(Tho I do suffer issues against Diancie, since M-Heracross can't safely switch into it for fear of Moonblast. And should M-Heracross be already gone...)

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

The best gods (IMO):

Mewtwo: Offers great Speed, solid attacking stats and usable defences.

Deoxys-A: Great for hyper offensive teams, but still not as good as everyone thinks it is, IMO. Extreme Killer Arceus syndrome - good, but not all it's cracked up to be

Kyurem-W: Epic Special Attack, alongside high Attack, great HP and usable defences and Speed

Xerneas / Yveltal: None of its stats are anything spectacular, but critically none of them are bad either. They're good for Pokémon who want to patch up their flaws.

Arceus: Well duh, base 120 stats all across the board? Yeah it means you won't have sky high bulk or offenses, but on the plus side nothing gets crippled

 

[tommytt22]

Steelix @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Breath/Hidden Power [Fire]/ Hidden Power [Rock]

I made this set as a joke but its actually not too bad with 170 base sp attack from a hoopa or a kyurem. Can switch in on banded talonflame, pikachu, smeargle etc.
Dragon breath is to take advantage of sheer force but hidden power has way better coverage so pick your poison i guess.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 75-89 (21.1 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO (120 attack talonflame)
252+ SpA Life Orb Steelix Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 619-733 (208.4 - 246.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Shuckle: 283-335 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (150 hp shuckle)

252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 218-258 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (standard 170 attack)
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 348-411 (97.4 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 387-458 (108.4 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 174-206 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 0% chance to 2HKO after attack drop (standard 150 attack)
252+ SpA Life Orb Steelix Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 458-541 (162.9 - 192.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Steelix Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 333-394 (118.5 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[LatiasDigs]

idk how people can actually think Shuckle is broken.. Yes, it can wall quite a few things but it has such crippling weaknesses that are so easy to exploit:

1) Trash moveset - Shuckles, from what I've seen and heard, use moves like rocks, shell smash, toxic, infestation, rest, encore, substitute (just pick and choose ur moves from that. Odds are I've forgotten something but w/e). It has 0 offensive pressure and is totally helpless against Taunt or Magic Bounce. Common mons like Sableye just shut it down completely. You might as well have brought 5 mons if you bring a shuckle vs stall / semi-stall. Poorly built offense in theory get decimated by this but it has nothing going for it besides being able to wall the enemy. It can't even harm anything outside of using toxic / infestation recoil which can be played around so easily (send your steel vs shuckle / recovery respectively).

2) 0 Offensive presence - What can this mon do vs a sub? it can be set up on as easily as it can set up on you. Combined with its poor typing and offensive capabilities, nearly anything can duel it once they've both set up for instance. Can't break a sub to save its life. Its so exploitable its funny. Just look at this: 0 SpA Shuckle Infestation vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior: 14-18 (4.8 - 6.1%). One of the most popular set up sweeper in the meta, serperior. Its weak to bug and it barely scrapes a 5HKO on its substitute. You set up faster than it can and have Taunt + Leech Seed to wear it down easily.



Counters:

,

,

,

, Any Steel/Poison-type (can't be Toxic'd), Any Ghost-type (can't be trapped)

Things that can handily deal with Shuckle:

I admit the offensive shuckle i mentioned earlier wasn't the best, but still "Zero offensive presence my butt"

though these sets may say more about the problems with deo-a than shuckle, but my point still stands

Shuckle @ Choice Band
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Gyro Ball

This one isn't as good, but still notable
Shuckle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ancient Power
- Struggle Bug
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power

you could probably put the hp evs into def instead and give it an AV for both sets

 

[Jajoken]

But why on earth would you waste your offense slot on Shuckle? Literally any Pokémon in that same slot would be just as strong. This isn't Nature Swap where offensive Shuckle is a thing because you can swap one if it's Defences -- any slot 2 Pokémon on a Deoxys team has 180 Atk. Who would rather use something unbelievably slow with a bad type and bad moves over Pokémon like Talonflame and Serperior? Unless you're inheriting HP, Shuckle isn't even that bulky...

I could have posted the same thing but with Delibird or Feebas. "Look! It has offensive pressure!"

But at what cost?

 

[readytolose]

Can we agree to stop posting about Shuckle, and to stop replying to posts about Shuckle? The space beneath this post is now a Shuckle-free zone.