Pet Mod GlaceMons - Slate 10 Voting [Final OU Slate!] | Please read Post #486!

:magnemite:: TBH with the amount of priority in the tier this seems a bit redundant, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a raise in :tapu lele:Tapu Lele as an anti-meta pick in general at this pace.
:vespiquen:: Swarming can easily get wide distribution as the flavor is similar to Infestation. Hopefully this is given to :venomoth:Venomoth so it can get a proper use in Glace UU at worst.
:octillery:: Octazooka with this rework can be powerful alongside pivoting and long-term utility like Knock Off, can easily be powerful on stuff like :tangrowth:Tangrowth and :slowbro:Slowbro.
:heliolisk:: Parabolic Charge's change is a quite minor buff, but that may be for the best, it can compensate with wide distribution, I'd imagine.

:deoxys:: Likely will annoy Poison-types in the tier a bit, but it does grant more variety in the tier to absorb Knock Off, Poltergeist, and status.
:ice stone:: Niche, but complements its related ability that just got added.
:fossilized drake::fossilized dino:: TBH this should've also boosted accuracy so :dracozolt:Dracozolt isn't as punished by Hustle, but we'll see if this performs as intended.
:venomicon:: Embargo in switch-in as an item is likely going to be powerful, at least this should address some concerns there have been with stuff like :auspicious armor:Knight's Armor, and there's counterplay in megas, Z-Move users, and the recently added Pokérus Vaccine.

:sawk::Karate is rather tame but also a notable addition as basically users of this have no reason to use Close Combat over Return. Also benefits Pokemon with unreliable special Fighting STAB (I hate Focus Blast).
:castform-snowy:: Unsure what can even get this as Ice-types can't be Frostbite'd, likely will have some unusual distribution, and so I can't really comment on this beyond helping the defensive power creep in the tier.
:eldegoss:: This sort of ability has historically raised the viability of its users in other mods, so I hope it gets some nice distribution than just patching the low Speed tier of a Pokemon or two, such as by giving it to a pivot so it can enable its allies.
:silvally-ice:: I hope this Ice Body rework also removes the Stealth Rock weakness, that'd make this ability really solid, and while I'd want it to get nice distribution, I'd advice against giving it to Kyurem as I feel that could be pushing it.

:banette:: Funny utility Ghost that's no longer a borderline meme, nice.
:kangaskhan:: At first this being unbanned by the Parallel Mega Orb was concerning, but underperformed heavily, these changes are nice, although Parental Bond could have been removed for something else as this has no niche in Ubers anyways.
:togekiss:: Delta Stream would've been better, but this still provides an usable wall in the tier.
:mew:: This keeps getting buffed, and it should be more than viable now, if anything its versatility concerns me a bit, we'll see.
 
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Moves:

SONIC BOOM :primarina: :toxtricity: :exploud: :altaria: :sylveon: -

Sonic boom is ok.. But i feel distribution needs to be pretty good like being on mega gard, mega alt, cuz a lot of normals are very very meh. It would likely need to see a BP buff in the future but if distrib is good maybe it can see use like pz or zoroark-h.

Swarming - :genesect: :silvally: :lokix: :yanmega: :deoxys:

Swarming is good, I thought lysion might have nerfed it but this is very very spammable, offensive mons rarely care about their defensive stat and would just spam this. It is very hard to switch into it

Octazooka - :

Its my sub so no comment. Gives a water type move used for breaking through opponents, an excellent tool to take advantage of hazards / racking up dmg by forcing switch outs

Parabolic Charge -

It works, with 75 BP it def works to be very annoying potentially esp on mons like raging bolt, chicken dance zapdos, and more

Items:

Pokérus Vaccine -

Sounds very good on stuff like tangrowth, lando-t potentially, tauros, or mons that hate toxic like alo. Although it gets consumed on switch in, it seems like a sidegrade to lum..

Frozen Orb -

Cool sidegrade to flame orb

Fossilized Drake / Dino - :arctozolt::arctovish::dracovish::dracozolt:

This gives the dino's something to work with. Especially the items allow them to see use especially with their new speed being much higher. The extra damage buff also gives them something to work with especially with the nerf to fishious rend which is definitely a huge blow to dracovish's damage output. This should give back some of its glory back while giving the other dino's use cases (as bolt beak still retains its vanilla form).

Edit: Dracovish is still weak asf, likely arctovish to

Rulebook -

Sounds nice, although most items are not really affected much by this, i feel it would see use on more offensive mons who would like to negate choice scarf or defensive items. A defensive mon denying choice specs from taking into effect can also be nice

Abilities:
Adjustments:
 
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Bruh I won 1/3 of the subs

:magnemite: My sub. It's mostly a cool option for Altaria, Gardevoir, Primarina, Toxtricity and stuff, even tho I can indeed imagine stuff like Zoroark-Hisui or Porygon-Z getting it.
:vespiquen: Also my sub. For having tried it in my own Solomod, it's a powerful STAB and a powerful progress maker, but it should be fine due to well... being Bug lol, not that many special Bug are good.
:octillery: Fire Lash clones are alway good, and this one will be a good move. Good addition.
:heliolisk: What can I say, should be good.

:deoxys: Interesting item, and a cool option for stuff that needs the Poison resist.
:flame orb: My sub. Frozen Orb. Insane. Gonna be useful with Keep Cool what can I say.
:fossilized drake::fossilized dino: Let's see how they fair, Dracovish was pretty mid last time I've seen it so wait and see.
:venomicon: Gotta be interesting yet niche I think.

:sawk: I think mostly special mons, or physical mons who absolutely don't want to have their bulk lowered will use that. Give it to Kommo-o.
:castform-snowy: Also my sub. Y'all really voted for an ability called Keep Cool lmao. Well, special Guts, and I'd say it's gonna be on mons that keep their cool? I dunno I guess we're gonna see.
:eldegoss: Speed Intimidate. Gonna be a good Speed control ability, gonna be fine yeah.
:glaceon: Well nice ability that needs a good distrib but it should be doable.

:banette: My sub. Again. The Banette is viable, finally, and I think it could have a lot of sets, def gonna be interesting.
:absol: Also my sub. God. Dark/Fairy is unseen in OU (outside of Grimmsnarl for the Screens HO users I guess), and it's a very good typing in general to have.
:kangaskhan: Interesting sets, interesting mon.
:togekiss: I wonder how good this will fair, considering we have Enamorus-Therian (I remember G-Luke trying to sub a defensive Togekiss but abandoning the idea I think?)
:mew: Protean Mew my beloved, I think this one could fair well.
:mandibuzz: Prankster Haze lol. Well, a fine option.
 
Congratulations to the other winners:

SLATE 08 FEEDBACK:
MOVES:

01. Sonic Boom: Fine with this winning given I voted for it, though I voted it mostly because it was Sound, meaning it has interesting interacts unlike most of the other priority. I hope this is the last priority move to win and also hope that :primarina: Primarina doesn't get it given how annoying that will probably be to deal with (especially in Rain), but I've learned not to hope in general.

02. Swarming: Glad this won despite not voting for it. Justice for :slither wing: Slither Wing!

03. Octozooka: Really don't think they're needed to be such a spammable Water move even with Sun's stupidly big boost this gen, but maybe it wouldn't be as overpowering as it seems even if its power isn't immediate. Still, I'd rather this have won rather than the trapping moves, but that's me disliking trapping moves rather than HydreigonTheChild's submissions.

04. Parabolic Charge: This finally being usable should be interesting. The very least, the suggestion potential mons getting something would all be nice, especially :ampharos: Ampharos.


ITEMS:
05. Pokerus Vaccine: I was a bit conflicted about voting for this between Poison being simultaneously one of the weakest statuses and the weakest offensive typing still and it primarily benefiting Fairy arguably, but I hope it's as interesting it seems like it can be. At the very least it thankfully doesn't benefit local nuisance :magearna: Magearna.

06. Frozen Orb: The only reason I didn't vote for this is because I would have liked to see Flame Orb and Toxic Orb dragged along to give the minor buffs that someone--Gamer but swag?--attempted to make earlier where they could get past their own type immunities. That would have both made all three of these stronger as well as helped Keep Cool a lot since I figured that would win. Oh well. We'll see useful this currently is even if I've always liked jank Trick Orb sets.

07. Fossilized Drake / Dino: Woo! Sand (and Snow) buff! (I was going to say that was a joke, but it's not really given this stacks with Sand Rush--and Slush Rush--presumably.) Actually pretty useful for :dracovish: Dracovish now that it actually usable Dragon STAB too in Dragon Hammer.

08. Rulebook: A bit surprised this won given how much other people seem to dislike Frisk even if I'm sure part of that is that Frisk don't do anything else. I guess we'll see how it shakes out.


ABILITIES:
09. Karate: Doubtless better than I think about it is. Pretty funny how Iron Fist is likely even worse now given some of the things that would get this likely overlap a bit. (Give it to :lucario: Lucario you cowards! /jk /please don't)

10. Keep Cool: Glad this won even if its name flavor arguably limits it a bit due to leaning towards Ice types...who are inherently immune to Frostbite / "Freeze", meaning the halving special damage part basically won't get used as much as Guts's ignoring Atk halving does. If we're brainstorming potential mons that could have it, then I'll suggest a few: :articuno: (over Snow Cloak), :articuno-galar:, :beldum:'s line, :corsola-galar:'s line, :exeggcute:'s line(s), :froslass:, :mareep:'s line, :revavroom: (as a "joke"), :vanillish:'s line (over Weak Armor), either :empoleon: or :inteleon: (over Competitive or Sniper respectively; maybe both mons could work, but eh...), and either :espeon: or :vaporeon: (over Synchronize or Hydration respectively).

11. Cotton Down: We'll see how much this boosts lesser mons. Please do give it to :ampharos-mega: Ampharos-Mega though.

12. Ice Body: Nice to see that this won given my snow abilities didn't win and given that official Ice Body hasn't been useful since like Gen 4 Stallrein. It seems like an Ice-related Exoskeleton ability that Ice desperately needs even if Stall :regice: Regice is probably going to be annoying.


ADJUSTMENTS:
13. :banette::banette-mega: Banette | Banette-Mega: Normally I find Ghost/Fighting type overdone, but I've a spot spot for Banette-Mega, and it definitely needs some type of boost. It would be nice to regret this but we'll see.

14. :absol::absol-mega: Absol | Absol-Mega: Glad to also see it won, especially since it was "hidden" in the list of what won. I do with it got a bit more though, even if it was just giving it Salve Strike too since being stuck with Play Rough as its Fairy physical STAB is...rough.

15. :kangaskhan::kangaskhan-mega: Kangaskhan | Kangaskhan-Mega: Hey, my first winning adjustment...is basically the same one I submitted for Megas Revisited with more versatility. Yay.... And, yeah, I could have gotten rid of Parental Bond, but keeping it was less for the sake of Ubers and more for the sake of being "iconic" to Kangaskhan-Mega and actually good unlike some other exclusive abilities even if the new strongest physical Ground move being a Close Combat clone backfires with it; I also kept it for basically the same reason I kept Early Bird: to give a chance. (Also incidentally made the third best Tri Attack absorber after Chansey and Blissey given that with Thick Fat is halves Fire and is neutral to Ice in addition being immune to Electric and having a lot of special bulk in general. Huh.)

16. :togekiss: Togekiss: Well, Sand a lost a sweeper...that it wasn't really using, especially since Enamorus was still better in Sand anyway with only Squall. So I'm mostly just annoyed this kept Serene Grace given how irksome flinchax is even if Togekiss did need a buff; I have to hope that Thick Fat and the buffed Super Luck end up seeing much more use than Serene Grace.

17. :mew: Mew: Unsure this needed the buff, but as long as it's not busted, I can't say I care much the way or the other. I'm mostly just glad that Amoonguss didn't win--since I hate that mon--and that Mew winning didn't screw over Mandibuzz like I initially thought it did.

18. :mandibuzz: Mandibuzz: Glad this won despite not voting for it either time since I like Prankster Murkrow and this is basically a bulkier if fairer version of it. (Also a bit weird to realize Mandibuzz didn't already have Body Press.)
 
Well after recounting the votes, and Regis have the same amount of votes as Mew! So we decided to add the Regis in as well! Thank you SparkRolf for pointing it out on Discord.


:sv/regirock: :sv/registeel: :sv/regice: :sv/regigigas: :sv/regidrago: :sv/regieleki:
Name: Regirock | Registeel | Regice | Regigigas | Regidrago | Regieleki (Resubbed)
Typings: View attachment 704961 | View attachment 704962 | View attachment 704963 | View attachment 704964 | View attachment 704965 | View attachment 704966
Abilities:
:regirock: Clear Body / Sturdy / Solid Rock
:registeel: Clear Body / Heavy Metal / Light Metal
:regice: Clear Body / Ice Body / Refrigerate
:regigigas: Clear Body / Normalize / Slow Start
:regidrago: Clear Body / Pressure / Dragon's Maw
:regieleki: Clear Body / Galvanize /
Transistor
New Moves:
:regirock::registeel::regice::regigigas::regidrago::regieleki: Curse, Rapid Spin, Recover, Volt Switch,
:regirock::registeel::regice::regigigas: Dazzling Gleam, Earth Power, Knock Off, Power Gem
:Regice: Haze, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch,
:Regigigas: Boomburst, Explosion, Low Kick, Self Destruct,
:Regidrago: Agility, Bulk Up, Flash Cannon
Removed Moves:
Justification: 6 Regis in 1 OU

And I might as well post what I think about them:

6 Regis in one sub. Oh boi.
:regirock: Well I'm not sure how viable it will be, I've seen Regirock with heal in the past and while it was kinda good, the power level here is high.
:regice: See Regirock. Rapid Spin -ate is cool tho.
:registeel: A Steel with a heal will always have some kind of place in the meta, and Light Metal/Heavy Metal are nice for it.
:regigigas: Clear Body makes Regigigas finally usable, while not overbearing. Let's see how it goes, even tho I think it's a worse Ursaluna, maybe not because Boomburst Specs can be a set?
:regidrago: Bulk Up is cool.
:regieleki: What can I say, it's exactly the same as before except for Recover and Curse?
 
Neat I guess. Might as well break them up...backwards:

19. Regieleki :regieleki:: Still basically useless into any Ground, but there's really no way to solve that without being breaking it given its absurd Speed. Galvanize Rapid Spin is potentially nice for it I guess, so that feels like a match-up fish, especially when Grounds already hard-walled it. Otherwise it can only really make use of Recover of the new moves it got, and even then it's pretty frail and likely still wants Heavy Duty-Boots. Shrug.

20. Regidrago :regidrago:: Feels like the second biggest winner just because Flash Cannon tells most Fairies go to Hell. Recover is also nice for Dragon Energy's sake.

21. Regigigas :regigigas:: And then there was one Strange Cigar user. I doubt Normalize is ever used on it, especially when it was given the strongest Normal moves that exist on both sides of the Atk & SpA spectrum and especially when Clear Body is nice even if focusing on SpA.

22. Regice :regice:: The biggest winner. Ironically gets more out of the -ate Rapid Spin than Regieleki probably will...even though it probably wants to use the new Ice Body like 99% of the time I imagine. Man as if this thing wasn't already likely to be annoying on Stall even before getting Recover, Volt Switch, Knock Off, Haze, and Rapid spin.

23. Registeel :registeel:: Like's access to both [Weight] Metal moves as well as Rapid Spin and Volt Switch. Not much else to say.

24. Regirock :regirock:: Likely still the second worse Regi--arguably the worst--just because Rock is that bad of a defensive typing, especially now that Ice Body exists to make pure Ice types like Regice into Eelektross's Angels. Benefits the least from the general changes too even if Rapid Spin, Recover, Knock Off, and Volt Switch are of course nice.
 
Distribution time!

Sonic Boom
Current + Gardevoir, Porygon-Z, Toxtricity, Whismur line, Tailow line, Swablu line, Bagon line, Meloetta, Terapagos, Silvally, Chatot, Stantler
Swarming
Yanmega, Venomoth, Shuckle, Genesect, Sivally, Charjabug line, Frosmoth, Beautifly, Masquerain, Galvantula, Ribombee, Nymble line, Deoxys, Pheromosa, Dewpider line, Rabsca, Accelgor, Mothim, Volcarona, Butterfree, Centiskorch, Vivillion, Slither Wing, Orbeetle,
Octazooka
Current + Blastoise, Clawitzer, Kyogre, Cramorant, Sobble line, Keldeo, Chichou line, Lotad line, Manaphy, Milotic, Alomomola, Poliwag line, Popplio line, Mew, Froakie line, Finizen line, Volcanion, Tapu Fini, Shellos line, Tentacool line, Toedscool line, Palkia
Parabolic Charge
Current + Lanturn, Eelektross, Ampharos, Genesect, Manectric, Pikachu (all), Sandy Shocks, Magnezone, Raikou, Stunfisk, Iron Thorns, Xurkitree, Regieleki, Toxtricity
Karate
Sawk (over Sturdy), Machamp, Mienfoo line (over Inner Focus), Mewtwo Mega X (over Steadfast), Riolu line (over Steadfast)
Keep Cool
Articuno-Galar, Zorua and Zoroark(Both lines), Drampa (over Sap Sipper), Maractus (over Water Absorb), Mismagius
Cotton Down
Current + Ampharos-Mega (over Mold Breaker), Altaria (over Cloud Nine), Drampa, Buneary line (over Klutz), Swirlix line, Cottonee line (over Run It Back), Hoppip line (over Run It Back), Bouffalant (over Soundproof)
Ice Body
Current + Abomasnow, Mamoswine (over Route Closed), Glastrier
 
:kangaskhan-mega: GlaceMons Playtesting Roomtours :banette-mega:
This was briefly discussed in the Discord, which I highly recommend joining for live discussion, but in this check-in period we will be hosting room tournaments on Dragon Heaven to assess how the metagame is currently, with a buff and nerf slate releasing before the next slate comes out! The times where they are started can be seen below:
Monday- 6pm EST
Tuesday - 7pm EST
Wednesday - 8pm EST
Thursday - 9pm EST
Friday - 10pm EST
Saturday - 3pm EST / 7pm EST
Sunday - 4pm EST / 8pm EST


In the meantime, feel free to discuss the metagame still and request some buffs and nerfs that can potentially be given out to new elements added to this metagame. You may even discuss the potential unbans of some Pokemon (Dragapult, Roaring Moon, and other reasonable Pokemon) as well. Have fun!
 
WIP

1. Utility

Entry Hazards
Stealth Rock

:pmd/great tusk::pmd/ting lu::pmd/clefable::pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/garganacl::pmd/garchomp::pmd/hippowdon::pmd/diancie::pmd/tyranitar mega::pmd/heatran::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/glaceon::pmd/terapagos::pmd/terapagos terastal::pmd/archaludon::pmd/swampert::pmd/avalugg-hisui::pmd/clodsire::pmd/silvally::pmd/excadrill::pmd/deoxys-speed::pmd/glimmora::pmd/mandibuzz::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/regirock::pmd/registeel::pmd/necrozma::pmd/kangaskhan mega:

Spikes
:pmd/ting lu::pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/garchomp::pmd/diancie::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/clodsire::pmd/ogerpon-wellspring::pmd/ogerpon-cornerstone::pmd/samurott-hisui::pmd/skarmory::pmd/glimmora::pmd/avalugg-hisui::pmd/mew::pmd/sandy shocks:
Caltrops
:pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/skarmory::pmd/registeel::pmd/iron crown::pmd/aegislash::pmd/kingambit::pmd/metagross mega::pmd/registeel::pmd/greninja:
Sticky Webs

:pmd/shuckle::pmd/ribombee:
Toxic Spikes
:pmd/glimmora::pmd/toxapex::pmd/pecharunt::pmd/iron moth::pmd/mew::pmd/nihilego::pmd/greninja::pmd/meowscarada:

2. Hazard Control
Defog
:pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/mandibuzz::pmd/gliscor::pmd/zapdos::pmd/moltres::pmd/tapu fini::pmd/corviknight::pmd/tornadus-therian::pmd/latias-mega::pmd/scizor-mega::pmd/rotom-wash::pmd/enamorus::pmd/altaria mega::pmd/mantine::pmd/silvally::pmd/skarmory::pmd/togekiss:
Magic Bounce


:pmd/diancie mega::pmd/silvally-psychic::pmd/hatterene::pmd/sableye-mega::pmd/absol-mega:

Rapid Spin / Mortal Spin
:pmd/glimmora::pmd/pecharunt::pmd/great tusk::pmd/iron treads::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/tauros-paldea-combat::pmd/tauros-paldea-blaze::pmd/tauros-paldea-aqua::pmd/sandy shocks::pmd/regirock::pmd/regigigas::pmd/regieleki::pmd/regice::pmd/registeel::pmd/regidrago::pmd/excadrill::pmd/avalugg::pmd/avalugg-hisui::pmd/terapagos::pmd/terapagos terastal:
Land's Wrath

:pmd/garchomp::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/ursaluna::pmd/clodsire::pmd/great tusk::pmd/iron treads::pmd/ting lu:


3. Offensive Roles
Wallbreakers
Physical:

:pmd/iron valiant::pmd/garchomp::pmd/garchomp-mega::pmd/great tusk::pmd/ursaluna::pmd/regigigas::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/dragonite::pmd/samurott-hisui::pmd/tyranitar mega::pmd/kartana::pmd/mawile mega::pmd/banette mega::pmd/blaziken::pmd/iron hands::pmd/cinderace::pmd/arctozolt::pmd/dracozolt::pmd/dracovish::pmd/kingambit::pmd/metagross mega::pmd/ogerpon wellspring::pmd/tapu koko::pmd/zamazenta::pmd/absol mega::pmd/aegislash-blade::pmd/bewear::pmd/kangaskhan mega::pmd/kyurem black::pmd/obstagoon::pmd/pikachu::pmd/pikachu-world::pmd/zeraora::pmd/gyarados mega::pmd/medicham mega::pmd/meowscarada::pmd/weavile::pmd/necrozma::pmd/buzzwole::pmd/slither wing::pmd/ceruledge::pmd/slaking::pmd/tapu bulu::pmd/conkeldurr::pmd/haxorus::pmd/rillaboom::pmd/sharpedo mega::pmd/mew::pmd/excadrill::pmd/victini::pmd/melmetal::pmd/lopunny mega::pmd/ogerpon cornerstone::pmd/regirock::pmd/charizard mega x::pmd/tornadus::pmd/thundurus:
Special:
:pmd/charizard mega y::pmd/magearna::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/diancie mega::pmd/gholdengo::pmd/heatran::pmd/iron crown::pmd/tapu koko::pmd/tapu lele::pmd/volcarona::pmd/zapdos::pmd/altaria-mega::pmd/enamorus::pmd/enamorus-therian::pmd/genesect::pmd/iron moth::pmd/kyurem::pmd/necrozma::pmd/pecharunt::pmd/nihilego::pmd/regidrago::pmd/raging bolt::pmd/shaymin::pmd/shaymin-sky::pmd/sceptile mega::pmd/scream tail::pmd/silvally::pmd/terapagos::pmd/togekiss::pmd/volcanion::pmd/greninja::pmd/latios-mega::pmd/manaphy::pmd/tornadus-therian::pmd/archaludon::pmd/venusaur mega::pmd/pidgeot mega::pmd/thundurus::pmd/tornadus::pmd/genesect douse::pmd/genesect burn::pmd/genesect shock::pmd/porygon-z::pmd/gengar::pmd/hydreigon::pmd/cherrim sunshine::pmd/clawitzer::pmd/skeledirge::pmd/pecharunt::pmd/mew::pmd/clefable::pmd/regieleki:
Mixed:
:pmd/aegislash-blade::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/greninja::pmd/tapu koko::pmd/hoopa-unbound::pmd/genesect::pmd/diancie mega::pmd/deoxys-speed::pmd/garchomp mega::pmd/absol-mega::pmd/kyurem::pmd/necrozma::pmd/victini:

Choice Users
Choice Band

:pmd/victini::pmd/urshifu rapid strike::pmd/zamazenta::pmd/dracovish::pmd/weavile::pmd/meowscarada::pmd/haxorus::pmd/slither wing::pmd/rillaboom::pmd/kartana::pmd/regigigas:
Choice Specs
:pmd/tapu lele::pmd/tapu koko::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/enamorus::pmd/aegislash-blade::pmd/iron moth::pmd/magnezone::pmd/nihilego::pmd/kyurem::pmd/genesect::pmd/scream tail::pmd/hydreigon:
Choice Scarf
:pmd/kartana::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/tapu lele::pmd/urshifu rapid strike::pmd/meowscarada::pmd/haxorus::pmd/slither wing::pmd/genesect::pmd/gholdengo::pmd/iron valiant:

Set-Up Sweepers
Agility / Rock Polish / Autotomize
:pmd/necrozma::pmd/porygon-z::pmd/iron crown::pmd/iron moth:
Bulk Up
:pmd/great tusk::pmd/kangaskhan mega::pmd/obstagoon::pmd/swampert-mega::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/zeraora::pmd/slaking:
Calm Mind
:pmd/clefable::pmd/altaria mega::pmd/magearna::pmd/raging bolt::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/terapagos-terastal::pmd/glaceon::pmd/enamorus::pmd/latias-mega::pmd/necrozma::pmd/iron crown::pmd/tapu fini::pmd/hatterene::pmd/tapu lele::pmd/tapu koko:
Beast Boost
:pmd/kartana::pmd/celesteela::pmd/buzzwole:
Curse
:pmd/garganacl::pmd/regirock::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/regice::pmd/registeel::pmd/regigigas:
Dragon Dance
:pmd/altaria-mega::pmd/charizard mega x::pmd/tyranitar-mega::pmd/dragonite::pmd/gyarados-mega::pmd/regidrago:
Iron Defense
:pmd/zamazenta::pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/skarmory::pmd/corviknight::pmd/iron crown::pmd/necrozma:
Nasty Plot
:pmd/pecharunt::pmd/tornadus-therian::pmd/thundurus::pmd/thundurus-therian::pmd/gholdengo::pmd/mew::pmd/gengar::pmd/pikachu::pmd/enamorus::pmd/enamorus-therian::pmd/deoxys-speed::pmd/hydreigon::pmd/porygon-z:
Swords Dance
:pmd/kingambit::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/ogerpon-wellspring::pmd/urshifu-rapid-strike::pmd/samurott-hisui::pmd/weavile::pmd/aegislash::pmd/scizor-mega::pmd/gallade-mega::pmd/haxorus::pmd/banette-mega::pmd/mawile mega::pmd/excadrill::pmd/tapu bulu::pmd/kartana::pmd/garchomp::pmd/garchomp-mega:
Quiver Dance
:pmd/volcarona:
Shell Smash
:pmd/unown:
Tail Glow
:pmd/manaphy:
Victory Dance
:pmd/incineroar::pmd/lilligant-hisui:
Flex Off
:pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/bewear::pmd/ursaluna::pmd/buzzwole::pmd/slither wing::pmd/tapu bulu::pmd/crawdaunt::pmd/mew::pmd/tornadus::pmd/thundurus::pmd/banette-mega::pmd/quaquaval:
Chicken Dance
:pmd/zapdos::pmd/tapu koko::pmd/pidgeot-mega::pmd/altaria-mega::pmd/skeledirge::pmd/pecharunt:
Growth
:pmd/cherrim sunshine:
:pmd/venusaur:

Other Items

Parallel Mega Orb
:pmd/absol::pmd/gardevoir::pmd/altaria::pmd/steelix::pmd/garchomp::pmd/tyranitar::pmd/latios::pmd/abomasnow::pmd/charizard-mega-y::pmd/slowbro::pmd/gyarados:
Legend Plate
:pmd/regieleki::pmd/regigigas::pmd/porygon-z::pmd/mew:
Indecisive Orb
:pmd/iron valiant::pmd/genesect::pmd/aegislash::pmd/zeraora::pmd/deoxys-speed::pmd/regigigas::pmd/raging bolt::pmd/victini::pmd/greninja::pmd/necrozma:
Strange Cigar
:pmd/urshifu rapid strike::pmd/regigigas::pmd/slaking:
Macho Brace
:pmd/conkeldurr::pmd/buzzwole::pmd/iron hands::pmd/slither wing::pmd/great tusk::pmd/urshifu rapid strike::pmd/zamazenta::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/tauros-paldea-combat::pmd/zapdos-galar:
Ice Axe
:pmd/kyurem::pmd/weavile::pmd/arctozolt:
Training Wheels
:pmd/primeape:
Pikanium Z / Pikashunium Z
:pmd/pikachu::pmd/pikachu-alola::pmd/pikachu hoenn::pmd/pikachu kalos::pmd/pikachu original::pmd/pikachu partner::pmd/pikachu sinnoh::pmd/pikachu unova::pmd/pikachu world:
Fossilized Drake / Fossilized Dino
:pmd/arctozolt::pmd/dracozolt::pmd/dracovish::pmd/arctovish:
Fried Rice
:pmd/clawitzer:
Ring Target
:pmd/tornadus-therian::pmd/heatran::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/lilligant-hisui:
Puppet Strings
:pmd/iron moth:
Lagging Tail
:pmd/unown:
Air Balloon
:pmd/zeraora::pmd/gholdengo::pmd/raging bolt::pmd/heatran::pmd/aegislash::pmd/pecharunt::pmd/volcanion::pmd/magnezone::pmd/iron crown:
Absorb Bulb
:pmd/great tusk::pmd/iron moth::pmd/ceruledge:
Cell Battery
:pmd/zeraora::pmd/gyarados:
Snowball
:pmd/necrozma::pmd/dragonite::pmd/raging bolt::pmd/garchomp::pmd/landorus-therian:
Scouting Visor

:pmd/necrozma::pmd/victini:

Priority

Aqua Jet

:pmd/urshifu rapid strike:
Bullet Punch
:pmd/scizor-mega::pmd/medicham-mega:
Fake Out -
:pmd/lopunny-mega::pmd/medicham-mega:
Ice Shard
:pmd/weavile:
Grassy Glide
:pmd/rillaboom:
Quick Attack
:pmd/lopunny-mega:
Shadow Sneak -
:pmd/aegislash::pmd/banette-mega::pmd/ceruledge:
Sucker Punch
:pmd/cinderace::pmd/mawile-mega::pmd/kingambit::pmd/meowscarada::pmd/samurott-hisui::pmd/absol-mega:
Extreme Speed
:pmd/dragonite::pmd/pikachu:
Water Shuriken
:pmd/greninja:
Thunderclap
:pmd/raging-bolt:
Twister
:pmd/raging bolt::pmd/hydreigon::pmd/necrozma:
Flame Burst
:pmd/charizard mega y:

Defensive Roles
Physically Defensive
:
:pmd/alomomola::pmd/corviknight::pmd/dondozo::pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/garchomp::pmd/garganacl::pmd/great-tusk::pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/skarmory::pmd/slowbro::pmd/toxapex::pmd/zamazenta::pmd/zapdos::pmd/buzzwole::pmd/iron-hands::pmd/moltres::pmd/pecharunt::pmd/tangrowth::pmd/avalugg::pmd/avalugg-hisui::pmd/regirock::pmd/golisopod::pmd/magearna::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/wo-chien::pmd/archaludon::pmd/rotom-wash::pmd/togekiss::pmd/altaria-mega::pmd/incineroar:

Specially Defensive:
:pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/garganacl::pmd/heatran::pmd/scizor-mega::pmd/slowking-galar::pmd/ting-lu::pmd/toxapex::pmd/blissey::pmd/clodsire::pmd/gliscor::pmd/aegislash::pmd/regice::pmd/goodra::pmd/magearna::pmd/mantine::pmd/registeel::pmd/umbreon::pmd/goodra-hisui::pmd/glaceon::pmd/iron crown:

Mixed:
:pmd/alomomola::pmd/corviknight::pmd/ferrothorn::pmd/garganacl::pmd/gliscor::pmd/latias-mega::pmd/scizor-mega::pmd/skeledirge::pmd/ting-lu::pmd/toxapex::pmd/celesteela::pmd/hippowdon::pmd/tapu-fini::pmd/venusaur-mega::pmd/melmetal::pmd/aegislash::pmd/golisopod::pmd/magearna::pmd/registeel::pmd/steelix-mega::pmd/umbreon::pmd/wo-chien::pmd/tornadus-therian::pmd/tapu fini::pmd/goodra:
 
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GLACEMON TOUR USAGE STATS

:pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/shaymin sky::pmd/great tusk::pmd/iron valiant::pmd/ferrothorn:
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   |    9 |  32.14% |  44.44% |
| 2    | Shaymin-Sky        |    8 |  28.57% |  85.71% |
| 3    | Great Tusk         |    7 |  25.00% |  83.33% |
| 4    | Iron Valiant       |    7 |  25.00% |  57.14% |
| 5    | Regieleki          |    7 |  25.00% |  20.00% |
| 6    | Regigigas          |    7 |  25.00% |  20.00% |
| 7    | Regirock           |    7 |  25.00% |  40.00% |
| 8    | Regice             |    6 |  21.43% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Ferrothorn         |    5 |  17.86% |  80.00% |
| 10   | Regidrago          |    5 |  17.86% |   0.00% |
| 11   | Registeel          |    5 |  17.86% |   0.00% |
| 12   | Silvally           |    5 |  17.86% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Bewear             |    4 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Kingambit          |    4 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Klefki             |    4 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Meowscarada        |    4 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Aerodactyl         |    4 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 18   | Avalugg            |    4 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 19   | Dracovish          |    4 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 20   | Hippowdon          |    4 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Terapagos          |    3 |  10.71% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Enamorus-Therian   |    3 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 23   | Iron Crown         |    3 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 24   | Magearna           |    3 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Manectric          |    3 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Necrozma           |    3 |  10.71% |  33.33% |
| 27   | Ting-Lu            |    3 |  10.71% |  66.67% |
| 28   | Zamazenta          |    3 |  10.71% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Absol              |    2 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Alomomola          |    2 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Iron Hands         |    2 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Altaria            |    2 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Obstagoon          |    2 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Gholdengo          |    2 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Medicham           |    2 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 36   | Diancie            |    2 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Sceptile           |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Slowbro            |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 39   | Volcanion          |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Genesect           |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 41   | Shaymin            |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Steelix            |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Arctozolt          |    1 |   3.57% |    NaN% |
| 44   | Ninetales-Alola    |    1 |   3.57% |    NaN% |
| 45   | Zapdos             |    1 |   3.57% |    NaN% |
| 46   | Barraskewda        |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 47   | Celesteela         |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Kyurem-Black       |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 49   | Slowking-Galar     |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 50   | Dragonite          |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Pecharunt          |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 52   | Hawlucha           |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 53   | Kangaskhan         |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 54   | Tapu Koko          |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
 
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Thoughts on the metagame so far:

:iron valiant:Iron Valiant: Funny that the council consistently has told me that they don't want to free :lucario-mega:Mega Lucario even if this outclasses the Adaptability variant. Moody grants it similar offenses while also being faster, and :macho brace:Macho Brace lets it have even more physical bulk and a pseudo-Adaptability boost but on all physical attacks. Either :lucarionite:Lucarionite :lucario-mega:M-Lucario should be freed (and maybe even the :soul dew:Parallel Mega Orb variant as Karate + Extreme Speed isn't that good in practice), or :iron valiant:Iron Valiant should get a nerf, which IMO is a bit overkill without further testing. Nerfing the :macho brace:Macho Brace itself could also be on the table as frankly that item is overtuned, Fighting-types don't need that much help.

:regice:Regice: Ice Body is cracked and should probably be toned down, no weaknesses without self-announcing results on some ridiculous calculations that make this tough to break even for physical wallbreakers.

:ice stone:Frostnip: So turns out that very few moves thraw the user, and this move got way too much distribution to enable the tier into even more of the status spam it currently is, would suggest to make it so that any Fire-type move thraws the user as well. Most status absorbers (aka, Poison Heal users, Tapu Fini) are weak to Freeze-Dry, so the counterplay to this can be surprisingly limited at times otherwise.

:protein:Flex Off: Yeah, G-Luke was wrong after all, this move has shown to be broken alongside Substitute, with Substitute removing most vulnerabilities against fat, and the Defense boosts enabling silly stuff like :Landorus-therian:Landorus-T being 3HKOed by :great tusk:Great Tusk's Ice Spinner. I'd advocate for the suggestion in the Discord server of making it only boost Atk by 1 and Def by 2, that way it isn't as threatening momentum-wise, easing more the defensive counterplay over having to hope to have a Pokemon with higher Atk than the opponent's and predicting properly the act of them using Flex Off, gutting the distribution as well should be kept until it's shown as still being problematic after nerfing it, as any further nerf would become a glorified Bulk Up.
 
Metagame thoughts:

A lot of stuff came out under rated or just not really something i looked close enough

:pmd/gyarados mega:

This thing is quite interesting and a user of mega orb, getting 2 intmidates off is very very helpful and can make it survive a lot of stuff it shouldn't esp in a 1v1 scenario. This allows it to do quite well on HO esp since shuffling 2 intimidates on the opponent can be used to stop something that went out of control like a dd dragonite, or swords dance gambit. Tripe Dive is also fun

:pmd/obstagoon:

Goon is pretty good, with guts it is immune to frostbite. Bulk up + espeed makes it scary late game and is something to not be overlooked, very few mons can take it on and many like valiant, mega mane, shaymin-sky, gren, weavile, moth, mega lopunny, zama-h kinda get dropped by a +1 guts espeed.

:pmd/regice::pmd/glaceon::pmd/avalugg-hisui:

Ah fuck, well i guess this is what happens when ice types have no weaknesses at all... Likely can make it so only physical (or contact if you want to go so far) moves ignore the weaknesses as this makes regice immovable blissey basically on the special side. Avalugg-H at least has been given a lot of life

:pmd/regirock:

Curse sets have been carrying it, with gravel, recover, press, curse it is really really hard to kill esp with sp. def investment, you are really taking nothing from most stuff and are a 1v1 machine with gravel grater.

:pmd/terapagos-terastal:

Sooo... we discovered rest talk... this thing is really immovable lol with rest talk, likely needs to be a power construct transformation as a nerf, making it transform at 50% really makes it hit much less, have less bulk, and has to take more risks rathe than being a massive behemoth from the get go.

:pmd/landorus-therian::pmd/kangaskhan mega::pmd/bewear:

These are the best flex off users in my opinion in lando-t, kanga, and bewear. The proposition of flex off being nerfed to +1 Atk +2 Def is smth... but i disagree with it being the main one. The other users in conk, buzzwole, tapu bulu, mew, and others are way less viable and i feel this would shoot them while not doing much to off lando-t viability as they are still tanky asf.

:pmd/dracozolt:

This thing is kinda very good... while bolt beak can be countered with grounds you still have to play around d claw or draco and while that isnt as good it still means this good speed tier is doing a lot for it. Personally don't think anything should be done rn..We do have a lot of checks to it like Mega Venu, Great tusk, lando-t, Steelix-M, Def gliscor can really be annoying for it, regirock, and in general relying on hustle is not fun

:pmd/pecharunt:

If you thought pecharunt was annoying before this thing turns it up a notch, with fire move coverage it can now spam its moves quite more freely and spam mortal spin into grounds with pupetter making it irritating asf to break through it, good luck getting your lando-t to move and not have a 33% chance to punch itself in the face. NP is also irritating as burning jealousy can make it hard to boost alongside it

:pmd/dragonite:

I realized this thing got zephyr blade... so Fly Z is on the menu again.. a lot of stuff got buffs and this move is quite good for it esp since it hits things like tangrowth, stronger hit into ferro, golisopod, alomomola, and is stronger vs grass types

:macho brace:

Macho brace is quite good, maybe to good and maybe needs to be toned to 1.25x instead of 1.3x as smth like iron hands, zama-h, valiant, are way to strong with it. Its still gonna be a good item but idk if it even needs nerfing, bigger fish to fry rn and to early to determine
 
Last edited:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6476-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6477-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6478-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6479-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6480-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6481-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6482-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6483-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6484-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6485-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6486-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6475-nullpw

REPLAYS

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Raging Bolt        |    9 |  40.91% |  44.44% |
| 2    | Great Tusk         |    8 |  36.36% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Landorus-Therian   |    8 |  36.36% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Iron Valiant       |    5 |  22.73% |  80.00% |
| 5    | Pecharunt          |    5 |  22.73% |  60.00% |
| 6    | Abomasnow          |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 7    | Lilligant-Hisui    |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 8    | Mew                |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 9    | Nihilego           |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Pikachu-Hoenn      |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Regidrago          |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 12   | Smeargle           |    4 |  18.18% |  75.00% |
| 13   | Charizard          |    4 |  18.18% |  25.00% |
| 14   | Cherrim            |    4 |  18.18% |  25.00% |
| 15   | Hatterene          |    4 |  18.18% |  25.00% |
| 16   | Victini            |    4 |  18.18% |  25.00% |
| 17   | Genesect           |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 18   | Avalugg-Hisui      |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 19   | Gholdengo          |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 20   | Goodra             |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Kangaskhan         |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 22   | Mandibuzz          |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 23   | Tapu Koko          |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 24   | Regieleki          |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Regigigas          |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Shaymin            |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Steelix            |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Terapagos          |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Kingambit          |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Slowking-Galar     |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Diancie            |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Ceruledge          |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Iron Hands         |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Ferrothorn         |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Glastrier          |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 36   | Urshifu            |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Kyurem-Black       |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Melmetal           |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
| 39   | Hawlucha           |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Necrozma           |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 41   | Tapu Lele          |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Volcarona          |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Gliscor            |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Goodra-Hisui       |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 45   | Tangrowth          |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
 
Decided to do my own personal VR as well; order within each tier doesn't matter too much. (take this with a grain of salt as I haven't built or played nearly as much as Hydreigon and others, and as such don't have as much experience with many of these mons.) As well, I'd like to talk about some potential balance patches that I think should be done.

Each rank is hidden behind a spoiler button in order to make this not take up the whole screen, and to help break it up visually. Note: just because a pokemon is missing, doesn't always means its bad, it might just mean I don't know enough about it to rank it well. Also, this is absolutely prone to being changed over time.

S Rank

Pokemon in this rank are staples of the meta. Every serious team needs to have some way of dealing with each and every one of these, and an overall good matchup into most of them.

S+ Rank: :landorus-therian:

S Rank: :charizard-mega-y: :gholdengo: :great tusk: :raging bolt: :terapagos-stellar: :iron valiant:

S- Rank: :ferrothorn: :magearna: :zamazenta: :regice: :kangaskhan-mega: :genesect: :kingambit:
Pokemon in this rank are solid mons that fit well with the top tiers, are great in their own right, and overall fit very well onto teams.

A Rank

A+ Rank:
:pecharunt: :manectric-mega: :urshifu: :goodra: :diancie-mega: :tyranitar-mega: :volcarona: :tangrowth: :glaceon:

A Rank: :ogerpon-wellspring: :shaymin-sky: :weavile: :zapdos: :melmetal: :skarmory: :zeraora: :tapu lele: :necrozma: :steelix-mega:

A- Rank: :samurott-hisui: :tapu koko: :slowking-galar: :scizor-mega: :gliscor: :enamorus: :dragonite: :golisopod: :iron moth: :mandibuzz: :ting-lu: :aegislash: :moltres:
B Rank

Pokemon in this rank are decent mons that can still very much work, but have notable flaws, are somewhat niche, or are inconsistent.

B+ Rank: :lopunny-mega: :dracozolt: :kyurem: :altaria-mega: :iron hands: :sceptile-mega: :shaymin: :absol-mega: :nihilego: :umbreon: :regigigas: :genesect-chill: (:chill drive:) :garchomp:

B Rank: :tornadus-therian: :glimmora: :iron crown: :hippowdon: :meowscarada: :genesect-shock: (:shock drive:) :tauros-paldea-combat: :tauros-paldea-blaze: :heatran: :kartana: :latios: :latias-mega: (:latiasite:) :medicham-mega: :victini: :avalugg:

B- Rank: :garganacl: :tauros-paldea-aqua: :greninja: :gengar: :regirock: :cinderace: :kyurem-black: :venusaur-mega: :mawile-mega: :rotom-wash: :excadrill: :genesect-burn: (:burn drive:) :avalugg-hisui: :slowbro: :garchomp-mega: :toxapex:
C Rank

Pokemon in this rank are ok mons that can work, but have glaring flaws, are very inconsistent, very niche, somewhat outclassed, or some combination of the above. This does not make them bad mons, and does not mean you can't use them, but they are harder to fit on teams.

C+ Rank: :ursaluna: :slowbro-mega: :slaking: :archaludon: :scream tail: :pikachu: :mantine: :abomasnow-mega: :haxorus: :tapu fini: :pelipper: :swampert-mega: :pidgeot-mega: :latios-mega: (:latiosite:) :deoxys-speed: :sharpedo-mega:

C Rank: :obstagoon: :gyarados-mega: :swampert: :barraskewda: :rillaboom: :registeel: :enamorus-therian: :cherrim-sunshine: :mew: :pikachu-original: :banette-mega: :hydreigon:

C- Rank: :glastrier: :thundurus: :corviknight: :regidrago: :pikachu-hoenn: :camerupt-mega: :tapu bulu: :charizard-mega-x: :slither wing: :dondozo: :blissey: :clodsire: :porygon-z: :regieleki:
Pokemon in these ranks are either very bad, utterly outclassed, super niche, super inconsistent, or some combination of the above.

D Rank: :ceruledge: :sableye-mega: :pikachu-world: :pikachu-alola: :wo-chien:

F Rank (Very Niche, Do Not Use): :silvally: (all forms) :chansey: :iron thorns:

Suggested Balance Patches:

:landorus-therian: Flex Off: "☆Bobsican: Not even a gg as this is a documented brokemon" (Bobsican, Turn 11). Flex Off is widely agreed to be comically broken, due to the overkill distribution and it being rather hard to prevent. Aside from taking it away from Landorus, Kangaskhan, and maybe Tyranitar and/or Banette, I also suggest making it so stat modifiers do affect it, so that stuff like Intimidate, Attack boosting items/abilities, and other Attack boosts can steal the boost, cause as it is right now, its fairly easy to mindlessly click Flex Off, click your filler move, then click it again. Also why does this have 15 pp, this thing just wasn't overtuned enough I suppose.

:macho brace: Macho Brace: This thing makes a lot of already very strong fighting types (Urshifu, Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, Great Tusk, and maybe more) even better, while making them way too bulky for their own good. IMO nerf it to only grant 1.2x Attack and Defense, so it isnt a free life orb offense wise, and makes them easier to take down, all while not nuking it to the ground.

:regice: Ice Body: This was never intended to be on Regice. The only reason it got it was because it already had it, and got subbed in the same slate as Ice Body. Swap Ice Body on Regice for Stalwart or something, and leave Ice Body alone. No other mon has been proven to be broken with it, so why nerf the healthy/mid users of it due to one mon?

:terapagos-stellar: Terapagos-Stellar: This thing is stupid bulky (160/110/110 bulk is insane, and with 130 Special Attack to boot). With some Defense investment, this thing can easily snowball out of control with cm/starstorm/rest/talk. I'm not particularly sure why we wanted a 700 bst behemoth in OU, but here we are. My suggestion for nerfing it is to either make it activate at 50% hp like power construct, or make the item have some other downside, like all of the user's attacks dealing 0.75x damage, or losing hp at the end of each turn. As it is right now, this is just an Uber dropped with the only compensation being it cant use an item, but I don't think it's destined to always be overpowered, the downside just needs some fine tuning.

insert a witty and well thought out conclusion here.
 
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First and foremost, thanks for hosting all the mini-tours even if they were pragmatically the best way to iron things out. Also thanks to HydreigonTheChild for the break down list (as someone who initially forgot that Fossilized Drake even existed) and to solrock the great for fixing the apparently server-breaking problem with Burning Jealousy so quickly. I'll post all my replays too before I forget:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6289-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6293-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6296-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6298-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6303-nullpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6561-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6565-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6568-nullpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6598-nullpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6363-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6365-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6367-nullpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6696-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6699-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9glacemons-6702-nullpw

The Already Talked (By Others):
01. :landorus-therian: Flex Off: Despite having been wary of this move of from the beginning, I don't want to say "I told you so". Instead, I'd rather we just take it away from at least Landorus(-Therian) finally, if need be, and :kangaskhan: Kangaskhan and (more than) a few others too if and see how that shakes out first. It will probably still be busted, but I believe that would still be the case if it got nerfed down to +1 Atk and +2 Def as has been suggested too even if it wouldn't be as bad then. Regardless, Landorus-Therian is inarguably the main offender that's been supremely obnoxious with it since it got it and never should have gotten it in the first place between its stupidly high Atk as well its two immunities and Intimidate giving it such easy set-up opportunities. Hell, I only gave this to Kanga on a lark while also hedging bets with Bulk Up because I legitimately thought Kanga would never get to use it with Landorus-Therian floating around everywhere, especially when so many people have as bizarre an obsession with buffing that Lando-T like it needs the help as they do with dropping "fixed" :magearna: Magearna even though they both always end up obnoxious.

02. :macho-brace: Macho Brace: Pretty overpowered too unsurprisingly. I'm not sure dropping it to 1.2x Atk and 1.2x Def fixes much, honestly, given how free of a boost it is for a large swath of mons who don't need it. Maybe make it 1.2x Atk and 1.2 SpA so that the (admittedly relatively) few special-attacking Fighting mons like :keldeo: Keldeo can actually get some use out of it. Sure, that makes :iron valiant: Iron Valiant even more powerful ultimately, but that thing is also already busted at present and lessened Defense will make it easier to revenge kill at least.

03. :regice: Ice Body: Yeah, agreeing with solrock the great above me. As much as it pains me to say this given the flavor reasons of it literally being made of ice*, Regice needs to lose it. Otherwise it remains an unkillable machine even when it functionally has no item--more on this later--that now also has Frostnip, Volt Switch, Rapid Spin, Recover, and a 30% Paralyze-causing STAB move with good power in Breeze Shock. So this mod ended up thus giving pivoting special Boltbeam coverage on a somehow greater form of Chansey :chansey: and Blissey :blissey:, which...no, please. Just replace it with Filter so that it keeps parity with :regirock: Regirock. All the other Ice Body mons--that I played against or used at like, like :avalugg: Avalugg--seem fine though. (*Not that this saved :articuno: Articuno, :cryogonal: Cryogonal, or a few other mons.)

The Other Broken Stuff (That I Used Or Played Against):
04. :iron valiant: Iron Valiant: Very borderline busted IMO. This mon was already pretty dumb as it was, so if I hadn't laser-focused on Great Tusk's initially also busted hidden abilities, I would have definitely said this thing shouldn't get Moody if I had consciously noted it given Iron Valiant was already a stupid good mixed attacker even when it had to actually choose which sides it wanted to stat the most. I'm not saying we should nerf or ban it right now necessarily, especially given Macho Brace is definitely part of the issue which more immediately needs a nerf, but it would be good to keep an eye on this thing and consider nerfing it if only by changing Moody to something else.

05. :shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky: This mon still feels incredibly overpowering to me as someone who's probably used it more than anyone, at least on Sand where it gets to fire off nuclear Squalls for "free" that pretty much 2HKO everything other than Blissey and Chansey--whom I'm pretty sure it 3HKOs--while also not needing to commit to Choice Specs since Indecisive Orb is honestly just better for it, especially when it gets access to Recover too. And then we switched Worry Seed from physical to special, which made this even stronger than it already was; it honestly might be the mon that benefited from that change the most when it hardly needed the boost. Unsure how to rein it in (without screwing over Sand or other Sand mons) or if it really needs to be, but I also think it an eye should be kept on it. (:shaymin: Regular Shaymin is perfectly fair though and is the sole reason that I don't want to take away Recover from it.)

06. :goodra: Goodra: Still feels like a too tanky wall with Toxic Orb, not helped by the (stealth?) Chilling Water change bolstering its Special Defense even more--though it likely prefers Scald. Felt less annoying this time around, but that's in part because I knew what to expect, in part had a way to boost my Atk while fighting it, and in part because the even more obnoxious Regice was skulking around.

07. :flame-orb: Pokerus Vaccine: This is broken in the other direction. Initially it at least set the effect upon entry when I had it on Regice to help make it even more unkillable, but then as of yesterday, it just...didn't work for some reason. Even when it was "working", it was a one-and-done deal where the unseeable "status" was lost as soon you switched out unlike both what was intended and what is described both in teambuilder and in the spreadsheet. Unsure how easy this would be to code, but I imagine it would be easier to "just" make it an actual status that's visibly afflicted at the end of the first turn that's out like the now-three Orb items even if said "status" doesn't get used for anything else. Coming at the end of the turn would also make it a lot fairer for what's intended when it actually works. Still, that might be easier said than done.

08. :clawitzer: Fried Rice: This too is broken in the other direction, and despite being the person who disliked this item winning the most, I'm still a bit dismayed that apparently it can be knocked of Clawitzer even though it's not supposed to be able to. People also seem confused on what it actually does given the teambuilder says it should boost all pulse moves (which the spreadsheet agrees with), and yet it seems like it's "only" Water Pulse that's increased in power, which is...underwhelming, especially if it can be Knocked for some reason on Clawitzer itself.

The Good (That I Used Or Played Against & Didn't Talk About Before):
09. :regirock: Regirock: Got crushed by this thing Curse + Gravel Grater set courtesy of HydreigonTheChild, so I was glad to be wrong about it even if it may be something to keep an eye on. Still, this being a lot better than I thought it would be at a glance solidifies :regieleki: Regieleki being the worst of the bunch now even with Legend Plate (Ice) existing--to the surprise of no one.

10. :pidgeot-mega: Pidgeot-Mega: Already thought this got a pretty sizeable stealth buff when it got the changed Tri Attack, but I didn't see anyone use it and didn't get around to using it myself. And then it got Chicken Dance and, as I missed, Aerodynamism, which is basically No Guard+ without any of the drawbacks for it given all it needs is Heat Wave and Hurricane. It's a bit difficult to safely get in given :pidgeot: base Pidgeot's relatively frailty, and it really doesn't want :heatran: Heatran, Chansey & Blissey, the currently borderline unkillable Regice (or :terapagos-stellar: Terapagos-Stellar), or a Rock type worth a damn like Regirock or :zeraora: Zeraora now around, but it's pretty good.

11. :pikachu-original: Pikachu-Original: Auto-Encore in Run It Back even for just one turn is a good ability, and Electric/Fairy type is a good typing. Who knew? /s Sarcasm aside, I'm glad to see that the Pikachu formes aren't as busted as I was worried about on paper, primarily because their relatively slow Speed--which kept get me killed because I kept forgetting to check--keeps them in check. This even if it using a Z-Move with this thing even without Nasty Plot felt more like "delete target opposing mon unless it resists or is immune to this attack" than Z-Moves already tend to be.

12. :obstagoon: Obstagoon: It seems pretty decent for something I only used on a whim because I was initially going to use Frozen Orb with it for Facade before realizing that Facade technically wouldn't be boosted by Frostbite as is unless Facade got a stealth change. While it needs time to set-up and actually get Burned (or Poisoned or, preferably not, Paralyzed), STAB Guts Extreme Speed can end up pretty gross even before Bulk Up.

13. :victini: Victini: Victini is still a pain, especially with Z-Celebrate, which is utterly unsurprising. It's probably...fair(-ish) even with Flame Burst, but do I admittedly just hate this mon, if only because of how stupid both V-Create and Z-Celebrate are. Might also be worth keeping an eye on even if it's hardly a priority.

14. :iron crown: Iron Crown: Honestly, it's just nice to see an Air Balloon abuser that isn't :gholdengo: Gholdengo's stupid self even as much as Air Balloon currently feels like the best item of the four changed in that set. (Which are supposedly bugged? Even though earlier in last week Snowball at least seemed to work fine to point of getting me killed, so, uh....)

15. :slaking: Slaking: The now-sole Strange Cigar user is still pretty good. (:regigigas: Regigigas arguably might overall be better now that it has freedom of item use, but Slaking is weirdly fast--something that lost me a game forgetting--and still overall usable.)

The Meh (That I Used Or Played Against & Didn't Talk About Before):
16. :aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: Likely better than I think it is, but I was trying to use Nostalgia Trip with Parallel Mega Orb and Squall on Sand, which was going...not great even if at least one of those instances was Stone Edge just being its usual unreliable self and getting Aero iced (by Regice). And then SparkRolf suggested just going Tough Claws with Millstone and Zephyr Blade, which I both keep forgetting exist, and I must admit that did perform better. So Nostalgia Trip sadly might be unusable on Aero-Mega as it is unless it gets Petroleum Blast, which it honestly feels like all the Rock fossil mons should have, but I digress. (Maybe :aerodactyl: base Aerodactyl can make use of Nostalgia Trip via Meteor Beam and Red Herb, but a) would be a one-time thing that ends up uselessly boosting SpA anyway and b) requires using base Aerodactyl.)

17. :rillaboom: Rillaboom: Still has its issues for which it deserves no pity given how obnoxious Grassy Glide can be at times and given it overshadows poor Tapu Bulu, but it's still usable. :utility-umbrella: Utility Umbrella also seems pretty nice on it, especially since I'm pretty sure that's the only reason I survived a Zephyr Blade from Landorus-Therian when I had zero defensive EVs. (Only to immediately then die anyway from the Wood Hammer recoil that KO'd. Worth it.)

18. :basculegion: Basculegion: It only got two changes in the form of Fishious Rend and Spectral Thief, both of which don't really help it at all. Fishious Rend in theory helps it not kill itself with Wave Crash in Rain...if it hits...and if you're not hit first with priority or something, but Wave Crash is probably still preferred. Spectral Thief is still too weak of an attack to do much of anything aside from be an emergency break against slower set-up mons though. Meanwhile, :basculegion-f: Basculegion-F is left out in the cold because both of those changes benefit it even less, meaning it basically got nothing, not even Infernal Parade. Shame.

19. :silvally-water: Silvally-Water: A bit sad that Silvally still seems to overall struggle to have any real niche in any form thus far despite all its buffs despite that being unsurprising, but Silvally-Water is the only one I touched this time, so it's the only one I can talk about it. Silvally-Water at least offers unique role compression that can only be replicated via the basically non-attacking :smeargle: Smeargle given that Silvally-Water had Surf, Squall, Caltrops, and Recover for my Sand team, but that's about the only good thing I can say about it beyond it having decent-ish stats. It's still very much jack of all trades, master of none though somehow, and in Silvally-Water's case it really wishes it had Scald, Chilling Water, or both.

20. :dracovish: Dracovish: Last but not least, if only because Silvally and Basculegion are right above and because it has access to Fossilized Drake now (which I initially forgot), Dracovish still feels like it has...issues despite now having a signature item and usable Dragon STAB that isn't Outrage. Dragon Hammer isn't great for it though (or honestly any Dragon mon save for Emergency Exit Haxorus, on which it's quite nice), and having such a weird paucity of moves otherwise still can be...annoying. I'm sure it's only exacerbated by what I'm trying to use it for, mostly on Sand where :dracozolt: Dracozolt is likely still better given the Fishious Rend nerf. Strong Jaw Dracovish (in Rain) is probably it's only real usable set, but even then I hesitate to say that it's "good (enough)" compared to everything else. It's definitely usable though. Just...disappointing (consistently).
 
07. :flame-orb: Pokerus Vaccine: This is broken in the other direction. Initially it at least set the effect upon entry when I had it on Regice to help make it even more unkillable, but then as of yesterday, it just...didn't work for some reason. Even when it was "working", it was a one-and-done deal where the unseeable "status" was lost as soon you switched out unlike both what was intended and what is described both in teambuilder and in the spreadsheet. Unsure how easy this would be to code, but I imagine it would be easier to "just" make it an actual status that's visibly afflicted at the end of the first turn that's out like the now-three Orb items even if said "status" doesn't get used for anything else. Coming at the end of the turn would also make it a lot fairer for what's intended when it actually works. Still, that might be easier said than done.

08. :clawitzer: Fried Rice: This too is broken in the other direction, and despite being the person who disliked this item winning the most, I'm still a bit dismayed that apparently it can be knocked of Clawitzer even though it's not supposed to be able to. People also seem confused on what it actually does given the teambuilder says it should boost all pulse moves (which the spreadsheet agrees with), and yet it seems like it's "only" Water Pulse that's increased in power, which is...underwhelming, especially if it can be Knocked for some reason on Clawitzer itself.
both of these should be fixed now btw

14. :iron crown: Iron Crown: Honestly, it's just nice to see an Air Balloon abuser that isn't :gholdengo: Gholdengo's stupid self even as much as Air Balloon currently feels like the best item of the four changed in that set. (Which are supposedly bugged? Even though earlier in last week Snowball at least seemed to work fine to point of getting me killed, so, uh....)
same with this (it legit looked nothing like the air balloon code at first, and they originally only popped when getting hit with the type theyre immune to)

First and foremost, thanks for hosting all the mini-tours even if they were pragmatically the best way to iron things out. Also thanks to HydreigonTheChild for the break down list (as someone who initially forgot that Fossilized Drake even existed) and to solrock the great for fixing the apparently server-breaking problem with Burning Jealousy so quickly. I'll post all my replays too before I forget:
theres a difference between the battle crashing and the server crashing. as far as i know, the only reason the battle will crash is if theres some sort of syntax error or it gets stuck trying to do something, otherwise it will act like things were intended to go that way, even when it doesnt.

remember chat, if ever you see a bug, post a thread in the #bug-reports channel of the discord, with a screenshot of it and the replay where it happened. its a whole lot easier to deal with these if we have them documented.
 
Well, time to announce the new patch!


Moves
Flex Off:
+2 Atk and Def => +2 Atk or Def, whichever is higher
Flex Off has been a hot topic for quite a while, and we thought boosting both Atk and Def would still make it pretty hard to manage, so here we are!

Zephyr Blade: 90 BP => 85 BP

Swarming:
10 PP => 5 PP

Abilities
Battle Armor/Shell Armor:
Cannot be hit by a critical hit. Damage taken from attacks is reduced by 1/8 (and no longer 20%).
Super Luck:
User's moves with high critical ratio always land as critical hits, but don't factor in stat boosts.

Sinister Thoughts:
Is now named Sinistrous

Items
Special Tera Orb:
Now banned from OU
Honey:
When this Pokemon's HP drops below 33% (and no longer 50%), restores 33% HP. Knock Off used on this item lowers foe's Speed by 1.
Macho Brace: If held by a Fighting type => Atk and Def are x1.2 instead of x1.3
Knight's Armor:
Holder takes 3/4 damages if hazards are up on holder's side and is damaged by them. Holder is grounded.

No more Magic Guard Knight's Armor.

Adjustments
:iron valiant: Moody => Natural Cure
Iron Valiant was a hot topic, so it should be fine with the nerf of Macho Brace and the removal of Moody.
:nihilego: Tinted Lens => Liquid Body
:regice: Ice Body => Sturdy
:kangaskhan-mega: -Headlong Rush, -Flex Off

:magearna: +Calm Mind, -Shift Gear
:golisopod: +U-turn
:incineroar: +Slack Off, -Power Trip
:togekiss: +Taunt, +U-turn

Distribution change

Frostnip removed from:
:alomomola: :dragonite: :gholdengo: :pelipper: :absol: :aegislash: :banette: :genesect: :golisopod: :goodra: :goodra-hisui: :pecharunt: :umbreon: :dondozo:

Swarming removed from:
:volcarona:

Also, after discussing policies, we decided to ban both Metagross-Mega and Gallade-Mega, and remove the complex bans on them.
 
Fine... patch is out so may as well chat about it. I think overall this patch has some good and bad. Some stuff were targeted well like regice ice body, special tera orb, and some buffs that were done well.

Overall I feel some changes are super odd, some stuff I have never seen being brought ever or just overkill nerfs. Flex Off being nerfed to oblivion is such a strange choice when you can jsut remove it from ursaluna, bewear, landorus-t, and kanga-m and it would be fine. If you want to directly nerf it i guess making it give +1 atk instead is better but this feels like an overkill nerf. Another thing done poorly is some nerfs that were done because they were talked about and not so much seen in game, for ex. Nihilego losing tinted lens when I have yet to see a game of it overperforming much. This feels very very weird and isnt smth I think should have been done

I give this patch a "g-luke wants to come visit you" / "im going to haunt you with pecharunt". (6.5/10) Could be better, some of these changes obv can be reverted but the fact they happened in the first place is not cool

Flex Off: +2 Atk and Def => +2 Atk or Def, whichever is higher
Disagree, this shoots the entire move and idk if anyone will use it. THe reason this was busted was cuz it was on lando-t, bewear, mega kanga (and bewear). What this does is make lando-t just run SD instead, bewear runs SD instead, and mega kanga lost it anyway which is likely the one user who may have ran it. Users like buzzwole, conkeldurr, quaquaval will just be less viable or switch to other sets. This move is dead
Zephyr Blade: 90 BP => 85 BP
fine, not against it
Swarming: 10 PP => 5 PP
Makes it more risky to throw out that is for sure but i doubt it will affect much consideirng ur still gonna like using it and the lack of pressure users dont really make this move like really limiting. Swarming > Bug Buzz any day
Battle Armor/Shell Armor: Cannot be hit by a critical hit. Damage taken from attacks is reduced by 1/8 (and no longer 20%).
Soo 20% -> 12.5%, the thing is why? There are literally almost no viable shell armor and battle armor users. This change seems like a very hidin change from me because the ability has like no uses in the meta cuz all the users are utter shit.

Unless dmg reduced by 1/8 is like 50% -> 37.5% and that is how it works. If so then its a buff
Super Luck: User's moves with high critical ratio always land as critical hits, but don't factor in stat boosts.
Sooo gen 1 crits? Another weird change that screams "hidin" at me, there is no way you looked at the current users and determined somehow m absol was worth nerfing esp since it was hit with another nerf a week or two ago when night slash / psycho cut got nerfed.

This is a bad change in my eyes. This seems done just for the sake of trying to make abilities more in line with each other and not account the users who they are on.
Special Tera Orb: Now banned from OU
Fair
Honey: When this Pokemon's HP drops below 33% (and no longer 50%), restores 33% HP. Knock Off used on this item lowers foe's Speed by 1.
Interesting how this is an item that also sees 0 uses and gets nerfed, why? I guess to make it take advantage of the speed lowering effect on it but this is kinda weird, now smth doing 60% -> 60% will kill you and it seems just a worse figy berry on almost anything.

I really want to see replays of it being so terrifying but this change is not it.
Macho Brace: If held by a Fighting type => Atk and Def are x1.2 instead of x1.3
Sure
Knight's Armor: Holder takes 3/4 damages if hazards are up on holder's side and is damaged by them. Holder is grounded.
App umbreon + knights armor was broken... but idk? the item is still bugged to somehow be able to be removed by knock off and other item removal, so it was very balanced. If the bug was fixed then maybe? but umbreon is hilariously passive nowadays and is often farmed by many poisons and steels.
:nihilego: Tinted Lens => Liquid Body
App nihilego was broken as well, to my knowledge it often struggled to force progress because it just isnt strong enough... it was not hitting hard and i need to see replays of this. These changes feel odd and feel way on paper.
:regice: Ice Body => Sturdy
Fair, not against it, maybe it could have gotten a better one.
:kangaskhan-mega: -Headlong Rush, -Flex Off
Shot, there is no way this almost has any viability. With flex off being way to nerfed you are unlikely going to do as much with it esp with its phys bulk being cut in half, its atk being naturally low where now its riskier to run +atk since you are gonna get nuked by phys attackers like a jolly tusk. The headlong removal is def overkill.
:magearna: +Calm Mind, -Shift Gear
Saw very little magearna at least offensive variants, with the soul heart nerf this has no reason to really be nerfed, i guess agility exists on it anyway so idk what this change achieves. Off mage is very not broken since its snowballing was killed and shift gear + CM really struggles with moveslots
It appreciates it
:incineroar: +Slack Off, -Power Trip
I can see why power trip is removed, so we dont see future screens + power trip stuff i guess this works
:togekiss: +Taunt, +U-turn
I guess time to see...
Frostnip removed from:
:alomomola: :dragonite: :gholdengo: :pelipper: :absol: :aegislash: :banette: :genesect: :golisopod: :goodra: :goodra-hisui: :pecharunt: :umbreon: :dondozo:
Thank fuck, still is on slowking-g tho who is annoying as hell with this while m banette def feels like idk why it was hit with this distribution change. I feel some of the choices were bad
Swarming removed from:
:volcarona:
Volcarona really was not doing much in the tier.. Very curious why this was made, esp after the nerf to it as well
Also, after discussing policies, we decided to ban both Metagross-Mega and Gallade-Mega, and remove the complex bans on them.
Bye bye m-gallade, see you in ubers i guess. What a wild ban
 
I mostly agree with the above, but I'll do some highlights that weren't talked about:

:terapagos-stellar:: Honestly please nerf it even more (say, making it a pure Normal-type, rather than the current base typing being Stellar), as in its current state it's a better :zygarde-complete:Zygarde-C, which is already something borderline in Ubers. Could also ban it to AG I guess.

:volcarona:: Swarming being removed seems overkill, with the ton of introduced special walls that annoy it, Swarming was a good way to even things out, and :volcarona:Volcarona with this move saw barely any use in tours.

:auspicious armor:: This didn't need to be nerfed, in practice the only real users of this were Magic Guard Pokemon anyways, and it hasn't been particularly problematic. Usually more of a case needs to be made for doing tiering action on defensive tools than offensive ones.

:kangaskhan-mega::nihilego:: These got nerfed too much. :kangaskhan-mega:M-Kangaskhan now is hard to justify over other megas, and especially the wide Ground-type competition, while :nihilego:Nihilego is back to being an UU pick. TBH Nihilego with Tinted Lens wasn't that problematic in practice as its Speed tier is mid and has quite low physical bulk to make it almost trivial to revenge kill.

:goodra-hisui::golisopod::How am I meant to calculate this wacky Shell Armor/Battle Armor multiplier in the damage calculator? Regardless, this was an unecessary nerf, as said before more of a case has to be made on defensive elements being problematic, it's not like we even have a concerning setup mon with it, especially with :goodra-hisui:H-Goodra already being nerfed on that regard.

:absol:: Unecessary nerf, Super Luck was just fine, and if anything it felt like the main users of this ability somewhat struggle viability-wise as is.

:buzzwole:: Yeah, this nerf just made it a worse Swords Dance / Iron Defense, this nerf just killed the move. Making it just boost Atk by +1 and Def by +2 and reducing distribution would've been more than plenty.

:honey:: Probably the most undeserved nerf here, the item is hard to justify already and this just makes it a worse pinch berry as explained above.

The other changes such as :iron valiant:Iron Valiant or :regice:Regice losing certain abilities are fine, but overall this batch of nerfs seems to be trying to heavily lower the power level, which sounds good on paper, but it really seems to be doing so without a proper direction, which isn't really desirable either.
 
mostly agree with hydreigon and bob, but i still wanna get my thoughts in

:machamp: Flex Off: ok i know this was comically broken, but thats actually just murder. make it +1 atk +2 def, or hell, make it give +1 to the higher of the 2 stats, and +2 to the other. otherwise, this is just shitty sd that can be turned into id by intimidate.

:fairy feather: :rusted sword: Zephyr Blade: ngl u coulda just removed this from lando instead of nerfing bp by 5, cause this feels like such a nothing change.

:goodra-hisui: Shell/Battle Armor: taken out back. battle armor is only on shitmons, and the best shell armor users are like, c tier at best. unnerf this.

:absol-mega: Super Luck: i ranked mabsol as a like b+ mon in my personal vr, and while that vr wasnt the end all be all, i def still agree with that ranking. as such, why did u nuke the ability for everyone, due to a b+ mon? i swear all of these changes look like they were made to look pretty for pmpl, instead of actually improving the metagame.

:terapagos-stellar: Special Tera Orb: good.

:iron valiant: Iron Valiant: good change, although i predict it will still be rly annoying with macho brace.

:nihilego: Nihilego: another b+ mon getting nerfed for no real reason. you love to see it.

:regice: Regice: who coulda seen this coming? lets get back to the changes we can make ragebait out of.

:kangaskhan-mega: Kangaskhan: another mon dead in the water. i get removing flex off, but removing headlong rush is overkill.

:magearna: Magearna: genuinely no clue why this was done, or how this is supposed to make it better, cause idt it rly does much. spikes/repair/volt is still the only real set it has.

:golisopod: Golisopod: good change, i dig it.

:incineroar: Incineroar: i feel like it shoulda gotten more to compensate losing power trip, even if i find it a very fair move to remove from it.

:ice stone: Frostnip: cool, but why does gking still have it? and tbh this doesnt rly do that much when u realize breeze burn is on everyone and their mother, so uh ill give this a passing grade.

:volcarona: Swarming: yea volc is an annoying ass mon in every meta its in, but idt theres any good reason to remove this, cause now its like b-.

This may be the end of the list of balance changes, however there is some missed potential that i do want to go over.

:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian: while flex off getting nerfed to the ground def weakens it, i wouldnt be surprised to see the old setup/eq/zephyr/filler/flyz sets return, and tbh idt this shouldve gotten quicksand drain, cause now pivot lando pretty much never dies.

:raging bolt: Raging Bolt: i think part of this is me being a dumbass who keeps forgetting this has twister, but ngl rbolt with healing and free prio is broken as hell. fun fact: some things are balanced around not being able to heal. who wouldve thought.

:clawitzer: :wo-chien: :drapion: :mantine: :togekiss: Miscellaneous: the few i put are just some examples, but i feel like there are quite a few adjusted mons that dont rly get to do anything. of them, mantine is easily the best, clawitzer after, and all the rest are seeing me after class.

:landorus: Landorus-Incarnate: wow 2 lando in one post. anyways i rly wish this got smth to make it actually usable, instead of just making u question why u werent using lando-t

:pecharunt: Pecharunt: this guy isnt broken at all, but its annoying as hell. also partly responsible for the status hell we have had as of late.

as said earlier, this doesnt feel like a balance patch, this feels like a marketing scheme for pmpl. hopefully council listens to the criticism and does better in the future.

edit: i forgot about the other items

:zamazenta: Macho Brace: good change, not much else to say.

:honey: Honey: please stop nerfing mid stuff, this gag is getting annoying.

:protector: Knight's Armor: no seriously stop nerfing stuff thats b+ or below, its getting on my nerves.
 
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We won't being doing the next slate until this Sunday, so in the meantime...
There is a survey that can be filled out HERE! CLICK THIS LINK FOR IT
With us nearing the end of the mods early stages, a survey to gauge how things are going will be hosted and will be left up until Sunday; if you are active in this mod or aspiring to be please answer it!
 
:buginium-z:- Swarming change is nice, 8 PP is good for it. I put "it should stay as is"
:fightinium z:- Flex off nerf is to harsh, revert. Some changes i suggested are removing it from the main 4 abusers (3 if kanga still loses flex off). Or should maybe be +1 atk instead
:flyinium z: - Zephyr blade is quite strong, I am fine with this change, I do not think it was particularly broken but I am neither against a 5 BP nerf

:goodra-hisui::cloyster::slowbro-mega: This is a revert, no reason to change this
:absol-mega::ogerpon::togekiss: Revert, was a meh ability on ok users at best
:terapagos-stellar: Fine with this ban

:macho brace: fine nerf. Although it will be odd to calc 18% dmg reduction
:honey: bad nerf, revert.
:protector: You can knock knights armor of, so i dont see umbreon being oppressive with it at all even with clef to.

:iron valiant: Fine, with indecisive it was quite a good bully of fat and with SD it was murdering stuff.
:nihilego: No reason to change it. This mon lacked power, speed, and bulk to really be that threatening, while meteor beam sets really just got revenge killed.
:kangaskhan mega: Depends on flex off nerf, but headlong is overkill
:magearna: still has agility so weird nerf. I think even with shift gear it lacked snowballing potential as +1 mage isnt a very good cleaner esp since it can be stopped and soul heart is once per game.
:golisopod: Yay u-turn
:incineroar: Fine, losing power trip sucks but i can see why it was done, wished it got smth more
:volcarona: was not even particularly broken, esp with stuff like mantine, dragonite, diancie, urshifu rs, frostnip, goodra, nihilego, zera, etc

- Didnt fill this out in the form cuz my ass forgot. But Chilling water is a special scald which i feel has to much distribution, with users like alo, slowking-g, pex,goodra, dondozo, slowbro, etc. So its still smth a lot of mons have access to.
- I think some bad mons should have gotten more buffs, mons like sandy shocks, eleki, drago, meloetta, iron boulder, iron thorns, iron leaves, brute bonnet. SHould really get some buffs, they feel left out.
- Stuff that can be done are stuff like surveys, being more transparent via chatting with the players, and just in general communicating the plans like for ex. room tours
 
We won't being doing the next slate until this Sunday, so in the meantime...
There is a survey that can be filled out HERE! CLICK THIS LINK FOR IT
Done after a terrible day. I'll be brief for once since I answered half of these on the in survey:

  1. Flex Off: I don't like this move, but that's mainly because of its chief abuser, which everyone agrees is :landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian. Not sure why this move has to die for that stupid thing's sins by becoming an unreliable Swords Dance, especially when Landorus-Therian already has actual Swords Dance like a lot of other mons that got Flex Off. Please just remove this from Landorus-Therian and like the three other top abusers and see it how rocks before utterly gutting this. [/sincerely, someone who dislikes this move]
  2. Zephyr Blade: Fine. Indifferent.
  3. Swarming: Fine. Indifferent. (This also applies for the removal from :volcarona: Volcarona.)
  4. Battle Armor/Shell Armor: Please revert. This is ambiguously worded, but I assume this is intended to be a nerf for...some reason.
  5. Super Luck: Please revert.
  6. Sinister Thoughts: Hopefully the second name change sticks even if "Sinistrous" sounds like a super villain that shops exclusively at The Leftorium.
  7. Special Tera Orb: Good riddance to Zygarde Complete 2.0: Hit Everything Neutrally Edition.
  8. Honey: Extremely confused why this would be getting nerfed. I think I've personally only seen it once, and even then I thought it was too weak. So if anything it needs a bit of a buff to make both it and Honey Gather actually worth using.
  9. Macho Brace: Probably still overpowered, but I'm fine with incremental nerfs to see where the line is.
  10. Knight's Armor: Was Umbreon with Knight's Armor really that obnoxious? This seems unnecessary unless we're also afraid about the other Magic Guard mons becoming obnoxious eventually too.
  11. :iron valiant: Iron Valiant: Good. Natural Cure might still end up too good on it to be honest, but at least it won't be exploding everything nearly as effortlessly.
  12. :nihilego: Nihilego: I'm unsure both that this is necessary or that Liquid Body helps it that much given its horrible Def as well as already being weak both to Water and to the non-contact Earthquake. Meh. (If we wanted a non-Tinted Lens ability for Nihilego now, then Levitate might be better if going for a defensive one.)
  13. :regice: Regice: Good. Ice Body was too much with its bulk and recovery.
  14. :kangaskhan: Kangaskhan(-Mega): ...Unsure what is the more appropriate response meme here: the prequel Vader's "NOOOOO!", the Godfather "Look how they massacred my boy" line, or A:tLA's Zuko's "That's rough, buddy" line. I'm fine with it losing Flex Off, but it losing while Flex Off while Landorus-Therian keeps it is...a choice (that I don't agree with at all), and it then losing Headlong Rush on top of that feels like overkill. Please only get rid of one or at least give it something else in recompense.
  15. :magearna: Magearna: Not sure why we're buffing Magearna, but okay I guess.
  16. :golisopod: Golisopod: Unlike the above chronic pain, Golisopod actually deserves this, so it's a welcome buff even if means there's now even more reason to never use Emergency Exit on it over Regenerator even with Route Closed around and even if I normally dislike pivoting.
  17. :incineroar: Incineroar: Still have yet to see this period, so no comment on it.
  18. :togekiss: Togekiss: Anything that makes it less likely for Togekiss go for flinchhax is a good thing in my book, and now it has an actual niche over either version of Enamorus due to U-Turn.
  19. Frostnip removal: Yeah, some mons needed to lose it, though :absol: Absol was probably fine keeping it unless I'm missing something. I agree with HydreigonTheChild that some mons need to lose Chilling Water too (while Silvally could stand to get it).
  20. :gallade-mega: & :metagross-mega: Gallade-Mega & Metagross-Mega bans: Fine. Indifferent.
I similarly agree with others both that some lower end mons could have used buffs. When it comes to items and applying buffs to them, besides Honey I think Crystal Crown and maybe Engine Breaker (despite how new it is) and, to a lesser extents, Safety Googles (due to Ring Target) and Cursed Branch (due to Legend Plate) also need some type of buffs. I'm unsure what those buffs "should" be though.

2025/02/14 EDIT(S): Typos fixed. Levitate suggested as an alternative for Nihilego over Liquid Body if it doesn't just get back Tinted Lens.
 
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