Go Go Green Mushroom Guy [OU: Breloom]

[jad]

Hi smogon, this is my first RMT. Awhile back I joined the forums with the intention of joining the community with gusto, but some RL things happened so I kinda forgot about smogon for awhile. But, now I'm back and raring to go! As this is my very first team and I'm new to the competitive scene, I apologize in advance for any newbie mistakes...hopefully you can help me out!

Well, here's the team:

The basic idea is giving Breloom ample opportunity to have a clean sweep by supporting it, however as it is fragile and things can always go wrong, the other pokes are strong enough on their own to pose a decent threat while maintaining synergy.

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/236 Atk/12 Def/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Meta's job is obviously setting up SR, which it does very well most of the time. I have Explosion instead of Meteor Mash in case I can take down a strong poke in order to potentially open up a sweep. I have a Lum berry to deter those dastardly sleeper leads like Roserade and Smeargle.

As I said before I'm new to battling, so I am unaware of the strategies against common leads. However, in my limited battling experience so far Metagross has been pretty sturdy and I plan to keep it unless someone can suggest something better for the job.

Possible change: should I move a few more EVs into speed to win against opposing Metagross?

Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Substitute
- Seed Bomb
- Focus Punch

Haha, you have to wonder, how the hell can this funny-looking shroom thing pack such a friggin wallop?! I mean, look at its hands. It can't even make a fist with those dinky red pointers, and yet its Focus Punch is one of the strongest in the whole game. Ridiculous. Anyway, this set is self-explanatory. Coming off 130 Base Attack with STAB and Adamant, FP hurts a lot and even dents things that resist. Seed Bomb for STAB and coverage, especially useful against Swampert. I have all my EVs placed in HP instead of speed because Breloom doesn't really outspeed anything, and the extra HPs could score me a potential Spore against neutral attacks. Plus the stronger subs don't hurt. If this is a really stupid thing to do, please let me know. So far it's been okay, though.

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Earthquake

TTar, besides being a beast in itself, is good at pursuiting those annoying Celebis, Latiases (Latiaii?) and Rotoms that laugh at Breloom and reduce it to a pile of mold. Originally I had CBTar here but at the suggestion of several members, decided to switch to Scarf and for the most part I'm glad I did! I'm able to revenge Starmie and Lucario more easily this way, both fair threats to my team.

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Recover
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

So, after a bit of testing, decided that the sexy Latias would take Heatran's place. Not an easy spot to give up, considering Heatran is quite the hot pick. With its blazing speed and painful Draco Meteor, Latias can put a considerable dent in even pokes that resist. Scizor is a bit of a problem without HP Fire but I've managed thus far--may put in later if it becomes more problematic. Another handy Earthquake resist is always good, as well as a slew of other useful resists. Most of the time, Latias pulls her weight in gold.

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split

Rotom is on fiyah. With its fat oven body it can take a hit and dish em out too with Tbolt and Overheat threatening Gyarados and Scizor. I originally had ScarfRotom here, but being classified as mere Pursuit bait, I replaced its revenge role (now taken by ScarfTar) with a sturdier, tankier version able to burn physical threats and Pain Split to stick around longer.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Here I have a much-needed watertank to soak up hits. (Get it?) This Suicune has enough speed to outrun scary threats like Adamant Lucario and max speed Heatran while still maintaining good enough bulk to take a hit or two. In case Rotom dies, Suicune can still function as a decent check to angry dragons that would rampage through my team. CM is there in case I predict a special sweeper coming in to face off against cune, but I rarely use it. The lack of recovery hurts but it's a sacrifice I have to make.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there you have it. Testing hasn't been extensive but I have played over 10 battles and only lost once. Granted, this isn't saying much and since my account is new I'm not playing good players, but this is why I'm here--to prepare and streamline my team to hopefully make it there. Some issues I've been thinking about:

1) While TTar and Heatran are both really good pokes, they are weak to the same types (Fighting, Ground, Water). This tends to limit my switch-in options when facing strong foes packing such attacks. I'm thinking of maybe replacing one or the other, Heatran moreso than TTar (because of the usefulness of Pursuit).

2) Since this team lacks speed (aside from scarf Rotom), fast sweepers can be problematic, for example Starmie. My pokes are bulky enough to take a few hits but I may need better defensive type coverage. Sometimes I am also forced to reveal Breloom early, but that's usually okay, since I can immediately Spore something and then go from there.

Any input at all would be greatly appreciated!

UPDATE: Just broke 1300CRE guys! I've only lost three times so far. Many thanks to you all!

 

[afterburn]

Just a nitpick:

I have no idea why you have a focus sash on metagross who's a really bulky pokemon not OHKOed by many attacks. Replace it with lum berry to beat Roserade and Smeargle leads

 

[The SPrinkLer]

Hey. I like this team but I have a few suggestions. First off I feel a more offensive spread on suicune would be beneficial, because it allows it to outspeed defensive versions of celebi rotom and zapdos that give breloom trouble and severely cripple them. It also allows you to have a more effective sweeper in it's own right. You could even run sub>hp electric to stop status and set up on blissey if You run 252 hp and like 36 speed and the rest in defense to still cover salamence reliably. Hope this helps good luck.

 

[Setsuna]

The synergy and overall strategy look good, complemented I'd rather say. Metagross is one of the best leads at the moment, and the reason why it prefers a Berry instead of the Sash or Leftovers, is simply to have the opportunity to beat Roserade and Smeargle leads that tend to either Sleep Powder or Spore respectively; besides Lum Berry offers the possibility to heal any status change coming from a Rotom or Celebi for example. Otherwise, Metagross wouldn't be able to do so and as consequence, it would loose its position as starter, which the opponent could profit to set up entry hazards early in the game for example. So I recommend two things, move at least 32 HP EV to Speed for outspeeding opposing Metagross leads, and replace Focus Sash with Lum Berry.

The main character of the team, Breloom, seems to be very well covered and receiving help of its teammates, but there is something that I would consider for making the things easier for it. If you start to analyse what Breloom dislikes to face, then Gliscor, Latias and Flying-type in general will come to mind, so facilitating and using combos/specific mons to shut them down is exactly what you need to aim for. Starting by Latias, quickly it seems not to be a problem since that bulky Tyranitar is prepared to take her down, but if you look at Gliscor, Flying-type Pokémon and dragons such as Salamence and Dragonite, then you'll see that you are lacking a way to get rid of them. How to fix this? What I think you could do the best, is add a Pokémon that concentrates all his power in Special Attack and also could deal with the aforementioned Gliscor, Salamence, etc.
I'm looking at the team and I don't see Heatran contributing too much to it; SD Scizor is being managed by Rotom-h with no problems at all, while Celebi doesn't like to face CBTar no matter what (that's only mentioning two of the most important Pokémon that Heatran use to deal with). As for the rest of the things he could do (exploding on special walls such as Blissey, and set uppers like CM Suicune) I don't think it is too important either, since there is Rotom ready to Trick the Scarf or revenge kill whenever is needed; Tyranitar to dent those Blissey and Snorlax that try to be funny using Toxic or Curse respectively, etcétera. Therefore, I think you should make use of someone that could fulfill the task of dealing with those that Breloom can't greatly harm. Latias is what I have in mind to replace Heatran, and there are several sets to consider: Bait Latias, LO + Three Attacks, and Calm Mind. For each there's a different strategy obviously, but I'm going to suggest trying out the LO set, which is:

Timid nature.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Draco Meteor | Thunderbolt | Surf | Recover

Some people hold the opinion that it is a bad idea to use this set of Life Orb on a team like yours that will always have SS around. But honestly, I have never found this to be a problem, all you need to do is play cautiously, do the right moves in the appropriate moment, and watch out for Scizor and Tyranitar just as every Latias must do ;)
I didn't choose 'Bait Latias' because this team is slightly weak to Infernape and Heatran as well, so using a moveset that doesn't pack Recover or Roost wouldn't be acceptable considering what I said just a line above. The Calm Mind set could be another viable option here, but if you decide to give it a shot, then I recommend a small change on Suicune's moveset. Make it the SleptTalk with Surf and Ice Beam would be the appropriate, in order to handle DD Salamence and DD Dragonite to an extent.
Anyways, LO + three attacks works simple, and its main task is to help against Gliscor, Mence and also Infernape, that could be troublesome. The rest of details have been said above, so no need for repeating them :P

On Rotom, I recommend you to tweak a bit the EVs. How about this: 200 HP / 56 SpA / 252 Spd. This spread improves Rotom's overall bulk and still maintains the necessary power to handle Gyarados, Metagross, Lucario, Scizor... Pokémon that Rotom needs to revenge kill. So give it a try!

As for Suicune, I agree with you that that spread helps a lot against Dragon-type Pokémon, a.k.a Salamence, but bear in mind that it won't be as effective as it could be with a few Special Attack and Speed EVs.

If you feel like asking anything related to the rate, just do it ;)
Good team overall, and gl.

 

[Dinhox]

Hi,

Metagross: I suggest you to run Occa Berry on Metagross, whit Occa Barry you'd win Infernape Lead, Lum Berry would be another option.

Breloom: you could run some Ev's in Spe to outrun other brelooms and other things... For me, I prefer Stone Edge over Seed Bomb, but it's your decision.

Tyranitar: the same as Breloom, I suggest to run som Ev's in Spe.

Heatran: Ok.

Rotom-H: Ok, but you could also run bold nature 252 HP 252 Def 6 Spe, with this Ev's you could outrun all non-choiced versions of Lucario and others...

Suicune: Ok.

Sorry if there are some mistakes, I'm Spanish...

 

[Nosferalto]

Hi. Solid team you've got there. You've got pretty much every threat covered.

As of now, the second most common used Pokemon in the OU metagame is currently Tyranitar, which carries almost all of the time the move Pursuit. With that being said, if your opponent has Tyranitar in his team, the first time you switch-in your Choice Scarf Rotom-H, it will get Pursuited for sure, leaving you without a check to threats such as Lucario and others. I wouldn't reccomed Scarf on Rotom-A for that simple reason, because of the abundance of Pursuiters. Also, CB Scizor, the #1 used Pokemon, can even Pursuit it if it is locked onto Shadow Ball. In addition, the extra speed on Rotom-H isn't needed at all, since it is only useful for Gyarados and Lucario, the latter being wonderfully checked by Suicune and the Luke part being handled later in the rate. Anyway here's the set:

Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate
Bold | 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Thunderbolt | Overheat | Will-o-Wisp | Pain Split / Shadow Ball

The EVs give Rotom-H roughly equal defenses with a slight emphasis in Defense.

Now, the only downside on removing the Scarf on Rotom-H is the fact that Lucario becomes that much more of a threat. However, since you this team seems to have issues with speedy special attackers; mainly Gengar and Starmie, you could use a Scarf Tyranitar which allows you to check all three. Since it outspeeds Lucario and resists Extreme Speed, it checks it very well, and with Pursuit / Crunch and mammoth SpDef, Starmie and Gengar aren't a problem at all. Here's the set:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf | Sandstream
Jolly | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Stone Edge | Earthquake | Pursuit | Crunch

Earthquake is needed to check Lucario and CM Jirachi. In your original moveset, Aqua Tail was only useful against bulky ground types such as Hippowdon and Gliscor which are both already handle by your CM Suicune.

On Suicune, it is rather unusual that you are using a defensive EV Spread alongside an offensive moveset because it wouldn't be functioning up to it's full potential. With the defensive EV spread it doesn't hit hard and with the offensive moveset and no recovery move there is no point in using a defensive spread. A better choice of EV Spread would be: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe -- the Speed EVs allow you to out-speed max speed Adamant Lucario and max speed + speed natured Heatran. You still counter Salamence, Infernape and Gyarados.

Finally, with Metagross' natural bulk, it can take several hits before going down, which means that Focus Sash is completely useless. A better item would be Occa Berry as it allows you to take one the most common leads even better since the only thing that could take you down in one hit is a strong Fire Blast. Occa Berry is there to allow you to soak up a Fire Blast and respond accordingly.

Good Luck with your team.

 

[iliketurkeybacon]

While TTar and Heatran are both really good pokes, they are weak to the same types (Fighting, Ground, Water). This tends to limit my switch-in options when facing strong foes packing such attacks. I'm thinking of maybe replacing one or the other, Heatran moreso than TTar (because of the usefulness of Pursuit).

I recommend replacing Tyranitar for CB Scizor, with an EV spread similar to 160 HP/176 Atk/4 Spd/168 SDef so that it can check Latias reliably. Aside from Bullet Punch being an excellent revenge killing tool, your Rotom-H and Suicune will be able to stick around longer without constantly taking damage from Sand Stream.

 

[MurrMurr]

This team appears to be very similar to my team: Your basic premise is to sweep a lot of stuff with a powerful and imposing offensive force, then pull out Breloom mid- to late-game and finish them.

That said, a few ideas.

First, although it's been said before, please remove the Sash from Metagross and replace it with a Lum Berry. Not many leads try to OHKO Meta, and Roserade and Smeargle would love to sleep you and set up. Also, Heatran isn't really doing much to help your team, since Steels it covers are either SporePunched by Breloom or Overheated by Rotom. I suggest adding something with a little bit of defensive force, to avoid being battered by Scarf sweepers if Rotom is out of the picture. Maybe a Physically Defensive Zapdos with Roar over Heat Wave. Stall with Roost, rack up SR damage with Roar, and beat out revenge killers without Ice Beam.

Good team, though. Breloom FTW!

 

[jad]

Hello everyone!

Thanks so much for the input. I can tell that it was extremely well thought-out and considerate despite my newbieness. Smogon rocks! After reviewing your suggestions, I have implemented the following changes:

-LO LATIAS in place of HEATRAN.
-More EVs placed in speed on SUICUNE.
-SCARF TTar instead of CB.
-More defensive ROTOM (as suggested by Nosferalto).

Thanks again to everyone who posted! I'll update this thread should I discover any glaring faults or weaknesses. I'm actually quite surprised that my first team ever did this well! Of course, I have the extremely well-written and detailed smogon articles to thank for that. Now all I need to do is polish my play skills...perhaps I should give the Tutor program a try.



EDIT: Okay, a few issues I'm already having:

-Lead Infernape OHKOs with Fire Blast. If I had Occa Berry this wouldn't happen...guess I'll have to switch to Suicune or TTar whenever I see him. :(
-ScarfTar is supposedly a check to Starmie, but Starmie still outspeeds.
-Oh wait just kidding. I forgot to change Adamant to Jolly. Stupid me!
-Should I put HP Fire on Latias for Scizor?

 

[Cloud9.]

I would sacrafice rest over ice beam.
Simply as after afew calm minds, surf still can do quite a chunk of damage.
If you really want to, you can put ice beam over hp electric for a dragon counter.
But I would go with rest or a wish support pokemon.

 

[Corndog]

This is a very solid team, with really very few weaknesses (none that I can see, at least). The team is solid enough that I don't have many suggestions, and the two I do are both nitpicky, so feel free to ignore.

I am unsure of why you replaced Heatran with Latias. Latias has advantages, namely speed, but using it means that once your lead dies, you have no steels. In such a dragon-centric metagame, that seems unsafe and makes you weak to the common DD Nite + DD Mence combination (Cune can't stop both), as well as that much weaker to Latias in general. If you do decide to keep Latias, I recommend switching to Specs Latias over Life Orb Latias. LO Latias is generally superior, but is dead weight and set up fodder against stall teams -- it's worth the small cost of using a Specs set in order to cripple Blissey. If you do decide to keep Latias AND you decide to use a Life Orb, you have to use HP Fire. All Latias sets should be able to beat Scizor (through one of HP Fire, Specs Surf, or Reflect).

I also recommend using the moveset Crunch / Stone Edge / Pursuit / Earthquake on Scarfed Tyranitar. By using EQ over the standard Superpower, you check roughly the same combination of sets that you would otherwise. However, it would give you an option as a switch-in to a lead Infernape - SS breaks its Sash and then EQ KO's. It's a somewhat risky switch-in, but it is an option.

Overall this is really an excellent team. You should be proud of it.

 

[jad]

Thank you so much for the rate corndog! I'm frankly surprised my team is considered solid, being new and all...so I need all the advice from experienced and knowledgeable members I can get.

I am unsure of why you replaced Heatran with Latias. Latias has advantages, namely speed, but using it means that once your lead dies, you have no steels. In such a dragon-centric metagame, that seems unsafe and makes you weak to the common DD Nite + DD Mence combination (Cune can't stop both), as well as that much weaker to Latias in general. If you do decide to keep Latias, I recommend switching to Specs Latias over Life Orb Latias. LO Latias is generally superior, but is dead weight and set up fodder against stall teams -- it's worth the small cost of using a Specs set in order to cripple Blissey. If you do decide to keep Latias AND you decide to use a Life Orb, you have to use HP Fire. All Latias sets should be able to beat Scizor (through one of HP Fire, Specs Surf, or Reflect).

Yes, those dragons are so very very scary...*shudders* The thing was, my Heatran wasn't really geared towards countering dragons...if it was I should have had Dragon Pulse on it. It was giving me a bit of worry since it's weak to a lot of the same things TTar is weak to (Water, Ground, Fighting) so I found switch-ins to be limited at times, especially against something fast packing Earthquake (or any of the movetypes listed above). I may decide to bring it back, but hopefully Latias and TTar will suffice...I don't think a team needs more than one dedicated revenge killer, do you?

I also recommend using the moveset Crunch / Stone Edge / Pursuit / Earthquake on Scarfed Tyranitar. By using EQ over the standard Superpower, you check roughly the same combination of sets that you would otherwise. However, it would give you an option as a switch-in to a lead Infernape - SS breaks its Sash and then EQ KO's. It's a somewhat risky switch-in, but it is an option.

Got this taken care of! So far ScarfTar has proved quite useful, especially against SDLuc and speedy sweepers like Starmie.

 

[jad]

After some testing decided to keep Latias. (Thanks for the suggestion Setsuna!)

So far so good, although as I approach the higher ratings I'll be facing tougher players, and from what I hear, more stall teams. Any more advice you guys can give?