Gods and Followers

k so nobody's replied or talked about the change to God Death Punishments, and the thread is falling down so to speak, so I'll give my opinion (reason I didn't before was I was waiting for someone else to give an opinion).

This change to Embargo being the God Death Punishment makes it so all playstyles are affected to at least similar degrees of severity. Before, stall (nonexistent though it may have been) and Balance, to a lesser degree, was hurt a tonne by Curse, while stuff like, say, Lugia HO (RIP Hoopa-U) wasn't awfully bothered as they were sac'ing everything anyways. Regular Offense was, while more affected than HO, still relatively worry free to a degree and could potentially win the match even without a god if they played it like HO almost, except against maybe stall. All playstyles pretty much despise Embargo equally, as stall LOVES lefties and general passive recovery (exception being Chansey), while neither Balance and especially offense likes losing their items, especially as Balance has a good number of bulky pivots and Life orb/Choice items are key to many offensive 'mons in the tier. Mega stones aren't affected, thankfully, so certain mons can function after Embargo. It also makes certain frailer Gods slightly more viable, like Deoxys-A, though Deo-A teams are probably ripped apart by Exca atm, not to mention Scarfed Krook absolutely destroys it (hence why MM2X is preferred on psychic teams).

A point of discussion I can think of to bring back discussion of the meta is how would one go about breaking typical Bulk Up Rest Talk Primal Groudon (which I'll refer to as CroDon due to the similarities it has to CroCune) teams, which are kind of prevalent in higher tier play and can be difficult to break without sufficient preparation or skill. During ladder month Primal Groudon (in general) received 9% usage in 1760 stats, placing it as the 16th most used 'mon and second most used God behind Yveltal, though it was a different story in 1630 stats, with it being much less used, at 6%. Thing is the team is so darned solid, if just on account of how much common shit CroDon can wall. Lugia teams may have a positive matchup on account of having Lugia, but Mamo can break it with Icicle Spear, Exca can flinchax it's way through with Rock Slide, and it can't do a lot to to Donner or Gastro. MegaMence has a decent shot, but it can be flinchaxed by Adamant Exca in sand if it's not running at +1 with least 232 EVs in speed and a Jolly nature, Mamoswine can revenge after minimal prior damage with Ice Shard, and can struggle vs Donner if it's already got a Bulk Up or two.

Note: For calcing these potential answers to CroDon I used Flamedood 's team from the team archive, but most CroDon teams I remember seeing are similar in format.

One set I theorised might have a positive matchup vs standard CroDon teams is a Bulky Mega Salamence set. Bulky Mega Salamence with 248 HP EVs, 72 defense EVs and an Impish nature lives +0 Adamant Excadrill's Rock Slide as a 3HKO if rocks aren't up, and takes basically nothing from Donner's Fire Punch, the most common STAB move CroDon runs. Furthermore, it can take an Adamant Mamo's Life Orb Ice Shard and OHKO at +1 with Return. It still has a pretty good matchup vs the rest of the meta because it's Mega Salamence, though it can lose to faster rain 'mons so it might be worth it to carry a better Rain/Kyogre check. The only downside is that it's pretty important to have rocks off your side and it's ideal to have rocks on their side, and that's difficult to pull off without Rapid Spin, which is not on a lot of Mence team viable 'mons. Do note rocks aren't necessary on their side, but it does help guarantee a lot of KOs. Plus it's a 'mon I love abusing so yeah.

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake/Substitute/Refresh

I'd personally use EQ to more reliably beat Exca and Donner, as well as actually sort of hitting Mega Maw and Dialga (if Shuca is gone, EQ can break through it), but Sub can be run to be far more difficult to revenge kill, as +1 Return already does tonnes to Exca, EQ's main target. Refresh can be run to be able to status sponge and switch in on some threats more reliably, like Ho-oh, as well as helping negate a potential Fire Punch burn from Donner. It's also worth noting that +0 Fire Punch from Donner and Banded Ho-oh's Sacred Fire won't break/hasn't got a good chance of breaking Mence's Sub. 188 Spe is still enough to outrun Adamant MegaPert in rain after a Dragon Dance, so that's nice.


Another God that has a good chance vs Standard CroDon teams is Hidden Power Grass Palkia, who breaks Gastro, many team's only real defensive answer to it besides Donner, who's a shaky defensive check because it needs to run PB to break Palkia, which leaves CroDon walled by any and all Flying/Levitate 'mons. Admittedly, it's forced out by Exca, but that's it. It's why I paired my Palkia with a Defensive Almomola (how the fuck do you spell that lmfao), who kind of counters Exca. It's just standard Lustrous Orb Palkia from the Ubers Smogon analysis but with HP Grass as the last moveslot.

The problem with non-God 'mons taking it on primairly stems from the fact there REALLY are not a lot off common non-God 'mons that do well vs Primal Groudon and it's teammates. Roughly 50-75% of OU are beaten by Donner in some way (you know something's wrong when something absolutely hard counters fucking Keldeo of all things while still having significant offensive presence), if you include non CroDon sets like SD, Rock Polish, Mixed, stuff like that, and most of the rest are beaten by CroDon's common teammates. I've got a few potential answers to this team that aren't Gods, though, don't worry. One such answer is Hidden Power Grass Offensive Air Balloon Heatran. AB Tran completely walls standard CroDon while the balloon is intact and can wear it down with Earth Power. HP Grass lets it hurt Sp.Def Gastro significantly if it tries to switch in, 2hkoing after rocks. SubCoil Zygarde is another Pokemon that can deal with Donner, being able to faze it out and potentially set up and sweep their team, but can struggle with Icicle Spear Mamo. That's it, though, as Zygarde phases Hippo before Hippo can phase it back with DTail, and at worst does enough damage to their team to allow a teammate to come clean through. Double Dance Landorus Therian can also do a right number after an SD, at worst softening up the opposing team enough for another teammate to break through it's checks. It outboosts Bulk Up and does tonnes of damage to Donner with EQ and it outspeeds Exca in sand at +2, but boosted Fire Punch will sting and Mamo can revenge. SD Garchomp also does a number in a way similar to DD Lando-T, especially with a Life Orb.

I'm curious to hear how others are preparing for this more standard Primal Groudon team format. Those are all of the answers I can think of atm.

One final thing I can think of is discussing the possibility of a Follower Viability Ranking. While we have a God VR, there's not much info on what Follower is good with which God. The problem is it'd be a bit of an undertaking to create and maintain, as doing it by the follower's typing leads to scenarios where we have 'mons like Latias being pretty shit on Soul Dew Latios teams but great on Palkia and MegaMence teams. idk, I wouldn't mind hearing what people think about this.
 
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Yay discussion is back (I think?)! Roles compendium for Gods (from 5 star down). I won't cover wish/healing wish/aromatherapy/heal bell/stealth rocks as megaqwer:D has that covered already and I don't want to rain on the parade. I'll try to make the roles be for Pokemon that are actually viable but I'll add ones that I think may have a niche that isn't discovered yet. The categories aren't in any particular order, so, no, I'm not implying Latios is a better pivot than Landorus-Therian or Garchomp. If people want I can fix the ordering to viability, but it's rather subjective so yeah.

Format:
Pokemon:

Wallbreaker: Special: Physical: Mixed
Pivot:
Stallbreaker:
Win Condition: Dragon Dance: Calm Mind: Nasty Plot: Swords Dance: Rock Polish/Agility: Coil: Curse: Belly Drum:
Walls: Physical: Special:
Choice Users: Band: Specs: Scarf:
Weather Setters: Sand: Rain: Hail: Sun:
Weather Abusers:
Priority:
Megas:

5 Star Gods:
Mega Salamence:
Wallbreaker: Special:
(life orb) Physical:
Mixed:
(life orb)
Pivot:
(assault vest)
Stallbreaker:
(sub/refresh dd roost)
(life orb taunt)
(subcoil)
Win Condition: Dragon Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Swords Dance:
Coil:
Rock Polish/Agility:
Curse: Other:
bulk up
Walls: Physical:
Special: Mixed:
Choice Users: Band:
Specs:
Scarf:

Weather Setters: Rain:
Sun: Hail: Sand:
Weather Abusers: Rain: Hurricane:
Thunder:

Priority:

Megas:
(duh)


Primal Groudon:
Wallbreaker: Special:
Physical:
Mixed:

Pivot:

Stallbreaker:
(RestTalk Bulk Up)
(subcoil)
Win Condition: Dragon Dance:
Calm Mind: Swords Dance:
Coil:
Rock Polish/Agility:
Curse:
Other:
bulk up
Wall: Physical:
Special:
Mixed:

Choice Users: Band:
Specs: Scarf:

Weather Setters: Sand:
Rain:
Hail: Sun:
Megas:

Weather Abusers: Sand Rush:
Sand Force:
Harsh Sun:
(self induced) Swift Swim:

Priority:

Trappers:


Arceus-Normal:
Wallbreaker: Special:
Physical:
Mixed:

Pivot:

Stallbreaker:

Win Condition: Dragon Dance: Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Swords Dance:
Rock Polish/Agility:
Coil: Curse:
Belly Drum:
Other:
Power-up-Punch
Walls: Physical:
Special:
Mixed:

Choice Users: Band:
Specs:
Scarf:

Weather Setters:

Weather Abusers: Sand:

Megas:

Priority: Extreme Speed:
Fake Out:
Quick Attack:


Wow arc-normal doesn't have much at all does it haha

Yveltal:
Wallbreaker: Special:
(life orb)
Physical:
Mixed:
(life orb)

Pivot:
(assault vest)

Stallbreaker:
(banded)
(life orb taunt)
(work up refresh roost)

Win Condition: Dragon Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot:
Swords Dance:
Rock Polish/Agility:
Coil: Curse:
Belly Drum: Other:
bulk up
flame charge
hone claws
Walls: Physical:
(defensive) Special:
Mixed:

Choice Users: Band:
Specs:
Scarf:

Weather Setters: Sand: Rain:
Hail: Sun:
Weather Abusers:

Megas:

Priority: Sucker Punch:
Aqua Jet:
Ice Shard:
Gale Wings Brave Bird:

Trappers:


Palkia:
Wallbreaker: Special:
Physical:
Mixed:

Pivot:
(latias)

Stallbreaker:
(rain dance)
(subcoil)

Win Condition: Dragon Dance:
Calm Mind:
(latias)
Nasty Plot:
Swords Dance:
Rock Polish/Agility:
Coil:
Curse:
Belly Drum:
Shell Smash:
Other:
tail glow
Walls: Physical:
Special:
Mixed:

Choice Users: Band:
Specs:
Scarf:

Weather Setters: Sand: Rain:
Hail: Sun:
Weather Abusers: Rain:

Priority: Extreme Speed:
Aqua Jet:

Megas:
(latias)


4 stars:
(WIP) Dialga:
Wallbreaker: Special:
Physical:
Mixed:

Pivot:
latias-mega
scizor-mega

Stallbreaker:
(taunt)
(subcoil)
Win Condition: Dragon Dance:
Calm Mind:
Nasty Plot: Swords Dance:
Rock Polish/Agility:
Coil:
Curse: Belly Drum:
Walls: Physical:
Special:
Choice Users: Band:
Specs:
Scarf:

Weather Setters: Sand: Rain: Hail: Sun:
Weather Abusers: Sand Rush:
Sand Force: garchomp-mega Swift Swim:

Priority: Extreme Speed:
Bullet Punch:
scizor-mega
Megas:
garchomp-mega latias-mega scizor-mega


I've only done the 5 star Gods atm because it's taken a long time for just these 5. The sprites are a pain becasue sometimes they copy, sometimes they don't. I'll finish this over the coming days. I have a new found respect for role compendium makers haha.

Also, be sure to tell me if I missed something or something's wrong, it can be difficult gathering them all up and stuff. I noticed a few things while making this - For instance, Yveltal teams have so many megas and options like dayum. I knew it was good because of how many options it had for followers and itself but crikey. I also learned Palkia teams aren't as restricted as I thought they were haha. I'm hoping to get input to improve how I make these before I move on to the 4 stars.

EDIT: No, Niadev, Mega Pinsir is NOT a usable Yveltal god :V ty InfernapeTropius11
 
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Nice to see some more discussion, this OM is so underrated. Anyway, here's an analysis of my favourite god Reshiram

Overview

Reshiram is a god you should seriously consider using on your team. Dragon + Fire work really well together, with the Dragon types able to cover their Fire type friends Water-weakness, while the Fire-types can cover the Dragons Ice and Fairy weaknesses. You also get access to an all star cast of great Pokémon, such as Heatran, both Mega Charizards, Mega Altaria, Garchomp, Talonflame, Volcanion, Dragonite, Rotom-Heat, Kyurem-B and Lati@s. Reshiram itself is no slouch either. 150 base Special Attack combined with dual 130 base power STABs in Draco Meteor and Blue Flare let it dish out a lot of damage, and with above average 100/100/120 defences and reliable recovery in Roost, you don't have to treat Reshiram with kid gloves. Its typing helps it out too - it can easily come in on Pokémon like Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, Aegislash, Mega Manectric and mega Venusaur and fire off powerful attacks.

However, Reshiram has its faults. Average to low Speed means it struggles somewhat against more offensive teams and while its typing gives it useful resistances like Fire, Grass and Steel, it also curses it with common Rock, Ground and Dragon weaknesses as well as a weakness to all entry hazards.

Special Attacker

Reshiram @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Blue Flare
- Roost
- Earth Power / Focus Blast / Tailwind

Moves

Draco Meteor and Blue Flare get STAB, and have virtually perfect neutral coverage thanks to Turboblaze - the only Pokémon that resist both are Mega Altaria, Azumarill and Mega Diancie, the former of which is still 2HKOed by Blue Flare if it doesn't invest in bulk. Roost provides reliable recovery, healing off Life Orb recoil and letting Reshiram fire off powerful attacks for longer. Most of the time Reshiram's STABs will get the job done, so the last slot's up to you. Earth Power hits Pokémon like Rotom-W and Diancie for huge damage - it also OHKOes Heatran that lack Air Balloon. Focus Blast OHOKes Tyranitar. Tailwind can be used to patch up Reshiram's average Speed for a few turns.

Set Details

Life Orb is the only item this set should run, as it lets Reshiram dish out colossal damage. The EVs maximise Speed and power, but a bulkier spread is viable too if you'd prefer longevity. 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe can be used to outrun uninvested Yveltal.

Usage Tips

Due to its good bulk and Roost, Reshiram has more opportunities to switch in than other gods. Come in on Pokémon you can force out, like Scizor, Mega Venusaur and Aegislash, and either fire off powerful attacks, Roost or set up a Tailwind. Avoid switching Reshiram in if Stealth Rock is up if at all possible, as it can be quickly worn down. This set is best used as an early to mid game wallbreaker, smashing through opposing walls so that teammates can clear up later.

Team Options

Dragon Dance Mega Altaria works well with Reshiram for its ability to smash through just about all the Pokémon that are threaten it - Reshiram can easily KO Mega Venusaur, Scizor, Ferrothorn and Skarmory. They get decent synergy too - Reshiram resists the Steel moves Altaria is weak to, while Altaria is immune to the Dragon moves Reshiram is weak to. Heatran can set up Stealth Rock to give Reshiram an easier time wallbreaking. Hazard control is critical - Latias can remove Stealth Rock with Defog, and use Healing Wish to give Reshiram another chance. Rotom-H can use slow Volt Switches to get Reshriam in safely.

Other Options

Fusion Flare can be used if you need a STAB with no drawbacks. Will-O-Wisp and Toxic can be used to cripple physical attackers and walls respectively. A Choice Scarf set is possible, although you lose out on a fair bit of power and Reshiram's hazard weakness means it won't like switching in and out too much. Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh, but the turkey is much rarer here than it is in standard Ubers.

Checks and Counters

Chansey - Chansey can handle anything Reshiram has and stall it out with Toxic.

Revenge killers - Faster Pokémon that can hit Reshiram super effectively like Palkia, Kyurem-B/W, Garchomp and Landours-T can revenge kill Reshiram if it hasn't set up a Tailwind

Stealth Rock - Stealth Rock strips away a quarter of Reshiram's HP, making it easier to revenge kill

Bulky Water-types - Most bulky Water-types like Assault Vest Slowking can avoid a 2HKO from Draco Meteor and force Reshiram out.


Also, here's a Reshiram team. If you couldn't tell I like Reshiram, so it's great to have a tier where it's viable.

Reshiram @ Life Orb
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Earth Power

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Roar
- Lava Plume

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 92 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Roost
- Heal Bell

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Tailwind

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
 
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Not as great as the previous posts, but hey: an look at Mega Altaria

What does it do:
It's a powerful wincon, great offensive fairy type, and has great coverage. Particularly, it's nightmarish to stop on any non-steel/fire team, and has few dedicated answers.

Why is it better than OU:
In a word, type change. It's a flying type mega that loses its flying type, and it's the only fairy type available to dragons. For the former it's a great electric resist not weak to water (looking at landorus/gliscor), a far superior alternative to togekiss, and a decent setup sweeper. For the latter it provides a dragon immunity, handles many common type archetypes like dragon and dark, and laughs at crippling status.

What other utility does it add:
It's a great cleric, which is extremely rare. It's a switchin when you can't use your God, and has a lot of lasting power. Finally, it can set up and try to sweep many times in a battle.
 

Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
Hello,everyone
Below will be a compilation of no. of followers that get access to Rapid spin/Defog, Stealth rock, Healing wish, heal bell/aromatherapy and wish.
Note:Some pokemon may not be viable.
Here I begin!


Aegislash
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/aromatherapy:

Wish:


Arceus [Normal forme] also mega kangashkan
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/ aromatherapy:
/

Wish:


Blaziken and mega blaziken
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:None
Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Darkrai
Rapid spin/Defog:

Stealth rock:

Healing wish: None
Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Deoxys [Normal, Attack, Defense and Speed] and gothitelle...........and wobbufet.............
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Dialga
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Genesect
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:
/

Wish:


Gengar (Mega)
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:None
Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish: None


Giratina and Giratina-Origin
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Greninja
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Groudon and primal groudon
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:None
Heal bell/Aromatherapy:None
Wish:None


Ho-oh
Rapid spin/Defog:
/


Stealth rock:

Healing wish:None
Heal bell/Aromatherapy:
/

Wish:


Hoopa-Unbound
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Kyogre and primal kyogre
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Landorus
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:None
Heal bell/Aromatherapy:
/

Wish:


Lati Twins
Note:Latias can be ALSO used as a follower when not holding a soul dew.
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rocks:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:

Wish:


Lucario(Mega)
Rapid spin/defog:
/


Stealth rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/aromatherapy:None
Wish:

Sadly I have to divide the role compendium into two parts.
Reason:Please enter a message with no more than 65000 characters.

 
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Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!

Lugia
Rapid spin/Defog:
/

Stealth Rock:

Healing wish:

Heal bell/Aromatherapy:
/

Wish:


Mawile Mega

Rapid spin/Defog:
/