alright, thinaks
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Gods and Followers
- Thread starter Jajoken
- Start date
This meta, while being similar, is more different that Monotype, as a lot more options and have a lot bigger objective. This isn't really an ubers based meta IMO since only one is allowed and this isn't OU because defensive or balance teams can work and not based on match-up. Team building is a lot more complicated, as 6PSS is not as punishing as it is in OU, but still hits hard due to the amount of good gods there are.
I'm just stating this, but when I look for a viable god IMO, I look for:
For example, I think most of us agree that PDon should be five-star
Yveltal is similar, except trading match-up for variety. Also a five-star.
I'm just stating this, but when I look for a viable god IMO, I look for:
- Variety of play style or excelling a lot in one area
- Good match-ups to other gods
- Lots of viable options in followers
- Power in them self
For example, I think most of us agree that PDon should be five-star
- PDon can have many sets from support to offensive to stall even
- With lots of steel-tpe gods such Dialga, Aegislash, etc. that are viable, PDon's type helps a lot
- Ground- and fire-types are extremely common in OU, and are high-threat. An S-rank pokemon is a fire type and tons of A+ rank are ground and fire.
- PDon is PDon
Yveltal is similar, except trading match-up for variety. Also a five-star.
My opinions on the viability rankings (as 8/9/15)Jajoken said:★★★★ (Four-star Rank)
These gods are great in the metagame, but have either one noticeable flaw or several minor flaws that hold them back. They may be restricted by limited team options based on typing, predictable sets or an above-average support requirement. However, the positives of four-star gods greatly outweigh the negatives, and given the right setup, they can dominate games. If your opponent does not prepare for these gods, they can often lose unless they skillfully play around them with the options they have.
~
★★★★
Aegislash: Perfect as it's destroyed by PDon, but is greatly boosted by having great match-ups in a lot of gods
Arceus: Perfect as normal type gives you options in jobs, not mons
Dialga: Maybe higher, but definitely not lower since Steel-Dragon is amazing
Gengar: Highest it could go, as the typing is meh, but the killing power of at least killing a god and/or a couple of followers is great. Destroyed by pursuit
Giratina (O): Giratina has bulk and survivability. Dragon is great and ghost is ok, but this+M-Sableye could be annoying as hell. I'll settle for this for now
Primal Groudon: Raise is please. It's PDon
Kyurem: Either here or three-star, as ice hinders it in terms of predictability, but has a niche in
Latias: IMO better that Latios, and might raise
Latios: Perfect place, as regular Latios is better that Latias, it's better to keep the strongest options while powering up the weak ones
Lugia: Maybe higher, as it's probably the best staller and gets good healing and field control
Mawile: Probably higher, as fairy and steel are probably the two best types in the game, with moil having access to both types. Can't make a FDS core
Mewtwo-X: Potentially raise, as Psychic-Fighting create both great balance and offense and both types usually use different stats. They have a lot of viable pokemon and have a lot of power
Palkia: Probably should by five-star IMO, as water-dragon allows it access to a lot of pokemon with a lot of rolls, it just is that
Reshiram: IDK, three-star?
Salamence: Perfect, since 4x weaknesses put a huge strain on team-building as almost all of your pokemon are effected. Kyurem-Black will probably be the biggest problem.
Volcanion: Three-star sounds better, as water- and fire-teams flourish in weather, and PDon's a thing. Without weather, water is severely hurt and fire is screwed
Xerneas: Perfect since options are limited and Xerneas is a one-time sweep, but dragon is common, but so is steel
Yveltal: IDK, five-star?
Zekrom: Three-star, as volt-turn is obvious and defensive electrics are limited. Dragon is dragon
In all:
Aegislash: 4
Arceus: 4
Dialga: 4-5
Gengar: 3-4
Giratina (O): 4
Primal Groudon: 5-ban(~0.000000003%)
Kyurem: 3
Latias: 5 (CM & PDon)
Latios: 4
Lugia: 4-5
Mawile: 5
Mewtwo-X: 4-5
Rehisram: ?
Salamence:4
Volcanion: 2(unlikely)-3
Xerneas: 4
Yveltat: 5?
Zekrom: 3-4
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More opinions
★★★
Arceus-Dark: Perfect While there are only a few dark types (that are good), they are extremely powerful. A-Dark is one of the strongest forms and has immunity to psychic
Arceus-Fairy: Perfect. A more bulky version of Xerneas, but still is slightly outclassed by her. It's like Xerneas is Chansey and A-Fairy is Blissey
Arceus-Grass: Maybe lower it, as while it is bulky, it's outclassed by Shaman in offense and Ferro and potentially Venu in defense. The move pool is great, but mono-type hurts
Arceus-Rock: This is a good spot for now, as Diancie and TTar are probable better options due to type, but it may change as I don't know where they place
Blaziken: IDK, probably good
Mega Blaziken: Perfect. As a sweeper, it does it's job good, but not great. Fire-Fighting is amazing at offense, but that's what it does.
Genesect: Four-star might be better, as he gets steel, Pinser, Heracross, Volcanion, and Scolpeed. Best access to sticky web other that Zekrom.
Ho-oh: Two-star seems better because of SR is a huge thing. Defog is the only way of ridding of hazards, and doesn't have access to a regenerator core or healing
Kangaskhan: Perfect, as Arceus outclasses it in a lot of ways. Same cons with a few more
Kyogre: IDC that it has drizzle, there's not enough viable pokemon that can abuse rain to make it three-star. Two-star is better, as rain has a lot of trouble
Landorus: IDK, raise?
Lucario: I think this should be maybe one tier below Mewtwo-X, as it does the same job with different types and is slightly less effective.
Rayquaza: See above
Shaymin-Sky: I think this guy should be one higher, as flinching and sleep are annoying. It has a surprising amount of pokemon in just OU, and is underrated
In all:
Arceus-Dark: 3
Arceus-Fairy: 3
Arceus-Grass: 2-3
Arceus-Rock: 2-3
Blaziken: 2-3?
Mega Blaziken: 3
Genesect: 4
Ho-oh: 2
Kangaskhan: 3
Kyogre: 2
Landorus: 3-4?
Lucario: Mewtwo-X -1
Rayquaza: Salamence -1
Shaymin-Sky: 4
My opinions on the viability rankings (as 8/9/15)Jajoken said:★★★ (Three-star Rank)
These gods are good in the metagame, but suffer from the same problems as four-star gods and also often riskier and/or have unfavorable matchups against high-tier gods. Three-star gods still have positives that outweigh the negatives, but the negatives are serious enough that players must first consider other options. If you properly build your team to support these gods, then you are still very likely to succeed depending on team matchup. If your opponent does not prepare for these gods, they still have a decent chance to win depending on how smart they play.
(Fairy)
~
★★★
Arceus-Dark: Perfect While there are only a few dark types (that are good), they are extremely powerful. A-Dark is one of the strongest forms and has immunity to psychic
Arceus-Fairy: Perfect. A more bulky version of Xerneas, but still is slightly outclassed by her. It's like Xerneas is Chansey and A-Fairy is Blissey
Arceus-Grass: Maybe lower it, as while it is bulky, it's outclassed by Shaman in offense and Ferro and potentially Venu in defense. The move pool is great, but mono-type hurts
Arceus-Rock: This is a good spot for now, as Diancie and TTar are probable better options due to type, but it may change as I don't know where they place
Blaziken: IDK, probably good
Mega Blaziken: Perfect. As a sweeper, it does it's job good, but not great. Fire-Fighting is amazing at offense, but that's what it does.
Genesect: Four-star might be better, as he gets steel, Pinser, Heracross, Volcanion, and Scolpeed. Best access to sticky web other that Zekrom.
Ho-oh: Two-star seems better because of SR is a huge thing. Defog is the only way of ridding of hazards, and doesn't have access to a regenerator core or healing
Kangaskhan: Perfect, as Arceus outclasses it in a lot of ways. Same cons with a few more
Kyogre: IDC that it has drizzle, there's not enough viable pokemon that can abuse rain to make it three-star. Two-star is better, as rain has a lot of trouble
Landorus: IDK, raise?
Lucario: I think this should be maybe one tier below Mewtwo-X, as it does the same job with different types and is slightly less effective.
Rayquaza: See above
Shaymin-Sky: I think this guy should be one higher, as flinching and sleep are annoying. It has a surprising amount of pokemon in just OU, and is underrated
In all:
Arceus-Dark: 3
Arceus-Fairy: 3
Arceus-Grass: 2-3
Arceus-Rock: 2-3
Blaziken: 2-3?
Mega Blaziken: 3
Genesect: 4
Ho-oh: 2
Kangaskhan: 3
Kyogre: 2
Landorus: 3-4?
Lucario: Mewtwo-X -1
Rayquaza: Salamence -1
Shaymin-Sky: 4
Typically Leader's Choice is for under-recognized OMs that don't have much of a chance of winning OMoTM. If we're pulling second place, that probably doesn't apply. There's always October!
That would be funny if that was an easter egg, but probably no.
Also, can we code "X ゥ- xゥ," into showdown with its godly stats?
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/X_ゥ-_xゥ,
Also, can we code "X ゥ- xゥ," into showdown with its godly stats?
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/X_ゥ-_xゥ,
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
This isn't the place to ask that. Can we actually discuss Gods and Followers instead of glitchmons that can't ever be used?
Ok, just responding. I haven't been able to find anyone who wants to play this on aqua, since this meta is kinda dead. That's the issue. PDon is good, but not broken. Yveltal has variety and power. Dialga has amazing options in terms of variety. IMO Latias is better than Latios. Palkia is amazing as well. There's nothing other than speculation that I can do, as this meta requires actual testing and I already did testing on them. If anyone wants to spend a session play testing, just ask.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
i was initially not going to support this om due to the -1 priority being HORRIBLY one sided, basically making you lose if you accidentally lose your god, but after seeing the curse debuff, i can say i will put a vote on this om, as it brings an interesting concept, a healthy debuff if your god dies, and has some interesting stuff to top it off. lugia stall sounds pretty cool, gaining plenty of good stallmons like mandibuzz, latias-mega, zapdos, slowbro and more, all while lugia can pull off a complete antimeta subtoxic set with multiscale and decimate everything in its path including the ever-so-common groudon. if this wins omotm, ill definitely be trying out lugia.
edit:also, sadly your in third atm, 350 cup and inheritance got you beat.
edit:also, sadly your in third atm, 350 cup and inheritance got you beat.
On a note somewhat relating to the above post, to those voting in OMotM but are unfamiliar with this OM: the description in the voting thread is wrong and applies to the old version, not this one. The updated description is in the Index/Resources thread of this subforum:
"Each team has one "God" and five "Followers". The Followers must share one type with the God. If the God faints, the Followers are afflicted with a Curse effect."
"Each team has one "God" and five "Followers". The Followers must share one type with the God. If the God faints, the Followers are afflicted with a Curse effect."
Voting for this meta for December! It uas such a great concept and changes the whole idea of battling, making for more intense matches. Everyone plz vote.
Any consideration to making a spinoff of this on a doubles format? Kinda like the God having a servant/chief warrior/right hand man by its side to aid it? Healer and Heal Pulse mons would be great support for the God. Food for thought
Any consideration to making a spinoff of this on a doubles format? Kinda like the God having a servant/chief warrior/right hand man by its side to aid it? Healer and Heal Pulse mons would be great support for the God. Food for thought
I hope this wins OMoTM december. Lovely concept and relatively easy teambuilding. Would play for sure XD.
If there was a doubles version, cleric support would sure be great knowing what happens when your god dies, you better want to keep it alive indeed.
It may even give mega audino a niche
If there was a doubles version, cleric support would sure be great knowing what happens when your god dies, you better want to keep it alive indeed.
It may even give mega audino a niche
We all know that there is only one true god:
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On a serious note, Gengar god squads seem really freaking scary, with Shadow Tag allowing it to trap the stops to your other team members as well as opposing non-Ghost-type gods. Also, Xern/Mewtwo squads have an inherent advantage in that they have access to Magic Guard users like Clefable, Reuniclus, Alakazam etc. that take no damage from Curse.
===========================
On a serious note, Gengar god squads seem really freaking scary, with Shadow Tag allowing it to trap the stops to your other team members as well as opposing non-Ghost-type gods. Also, Xern/Mewtwo squads have an inherent advantage in that they have access to Magic Guard users like Clefable, Reuniclus, Alakazam etc. that take no damage from Curse.
This looks like a really fun meta, shame it didn't win in December. There's always January. My thoughts on some of the Ubers gods:
Aegislash
Good balance of offence and defence, Steel is solid but Ghost is lacking viable mons and Ghosts often have to make do with low powered STABs.
Arceus
You are restricted to one type, and you won't have that surprise factor since your team will give away which form it is.
(Mega) Blaziken
Fire and Fighting are both solid types, however you will need to be careful with Blaziken as it is quite frail
Darkrai
Use Yveltal. This thing's too frail, and Yveltal also gives you Flying
Deoxys (all formes)
N is useless; D is too passive; A and S are too frail. Use Mewtwo or Lugia
Dialga
Oh yeah, now we're talking. Both Dragon and Steel are fantastic, and you don't have to handle Dialga with kid gloves as it takes neutral hits quite well (still lacks reliable recovery though). One of the best gods IMO.
Genesect
Actually better than you might think. While you will have to be careful with Genesect as it's quite frail, you've get plenty of good sweepers with Volcarona, Mega Pinsir and (Mega) Scizor. Skarmory can take care of hazard control.
Mega Gengar
Could be very threatening as it can trap and potentially kill slower, frailer gods. However it takes up your mega slot, Ghost has serious issues (low powered STAB, small pool of viable Pokémon) and Poison isn't great either. You also can't use other Megas.
Giratina (O)
Mono Dragon is great; Ghost not so much. Still in both forms Giratina takes hits pretty well, so it's ulikely your God will fall too early
Greninja
Water and Dark are both solid types, but Greninja is super frail and not that fast.
Primal Groudon
No reason to use regular Groudon. Ground and Fire gives you a good pool of Pokémon, and thanks to Excadrill you have hazard control. You've also got walls in Hippowdon and Gliscor, and sweepers in Volcarona and Charizard X. Pretty good
Ho-Oh
Stealth Rock will be a major pain in the rear, but Ho-Oh is quite durable and mono Fire and Flying are both solid types. Still outclassed by P-Groudon and Reshiram IMO though
Kangaskhan-Mega
Use Normal Arceus - then you still get freedom of Mega
Kyogre
You are locked to using just Water, but Kyogre is much more durable than Greninja. Still, I'd recommend Palkia over Kyogre as that also gives you Dragon.
Kyurem-W
Oh god no. Draon is perfectly good; Ice is not. The only OU viable Ice types are Mamoswine and Weavile. For gods and followers, Kyurem-W is the worst Uber Dragon
Landorus
While you will have to be careful with Landorus due to its frailty, Ground and Flying are both good types that work well together.
More coming later
Aegislash
Good balance of offence and defence, Steel is solid but Ghost is lacking viable mons and Ghosts often have to make do with low powered STABs.
Arceus
You are restricted to one type, and you won't have that surprise factor since your team will give away which form it is.
(Mega) Blaziken
Fire and Fighting are both solid types, however you will need to be careful with Blaziken as it is quite frail
Darkrai
Use Yveltal. This thing's too frail, and Yveltal also gives you Flying
Deoxys (all formes)
N is useless; D is too passive; A and S are too frail. Use Mewtwo or Lugia
Dialga
Oh yeah, now we're talking. Both Dragon and Steel are fantastic, and you don't have to handle Dialga with kid gloves as it takes neutral hits quite well (still lacks reliable recovery though). One of the best gods IMO.
Genesect
Actually better than you might think. While you will have to be careful with Genesect as it's quite frail, you've get plenty of good sweepers with Volcarona, Mega Pinsir and (Mega) Scizor. Skarmory can take care of hazard control.
Mega Gengar
Could be very threatening as it can trap and potentially kill slower, frailer gods. However it takes up your mega slot, Ghost has serious issues (low powered STAB, small pool of viable Pokémon) and Poison isn't great either. You also can't use other Megas.
Giratina (O)
Mono Dragon is great; Ghost not so much. Still in both forms Giratina takes hits pretty well, so it's ulikely your God will fall too early
Greninja
Water and Dark are both solid types, but Greninja is super frail and not that fast.
Primal Groudon
No reason to use regular Groudon. Ground and Fire gives you a good pool of Pokémon, and thanks to Excadrill you have hazard control. You've also got walls in Hippowdon and Gliscor, and sweepers in Volcarona and Charizard X. Pretty good
Ho-Oh
Stealth Rock will be a major pain in the rear, but Ho-Oh is quite durable and mono Fire and Flying are both solid types. Still outclassed by P-Groudon and Reshiram IMO though
Kangaskhan-Mega
Use Normal Arceus - then you still get freedom of Mega
Kyogre
You are locked to using just Water, but Kyogre is much more durable than Greninja. Still, I'd recommend Palkia over Kyogre as that also gives you Dragon.
Kyurem-W
Oh god no. Draon is perfectly good; Ice is not. The only OU viable Ice types are Mamoswine and Weavile. For gods and followers, Kyurem-W is the worst Uber Dragon
Landorus
While you will have to be careful with Landorus due to its frailty, Ground and Flying are both good types that work well together.
More coming later
It has set up and support in Frosslass, HO in Mamo, Normal Kyurem, Kyurem-B, The ever-freezing M-Glalie and Weavile. IT also has Cloyster for a wall/Cleaner.
Ice actually does have good options compared to some types.
Keep in mind that using Kyurem-W does not mean "oh boy guess I'm forced to use a bunch of Ice types." You can literally have a full Dragon team with a random Weavile or Mamoswine (which can only otherwise fit on Dark or Ground God teams, of which there are relatively few), or even no Ice types at all. However, as I pointed out somewhere else in this thread, there are a ton of Flying and Dragon types in Ubers, and using any one of them gives a team an inherent Ice weakness. Ice STAB is potentially very dangerous here, and despite having a somewhat unfortunate typing, Kyurem-W is quite bulky and has access to enviable recovery in Roost. There are worse options.
From what I've seen from the meta, bulky Gods are the best Gods. Unless it has some serious Wish support, or a really solid typing, it's not worth it. Darkrai might be powerful, but it's on the frail side, and as we all know, losing your god is not in your best interests. I would say that unless it's megatwo, Aegislash, or maybe genesect anything with less than 100/100/100 bulk is not recommended. A bulky god is more likely to survive longer, and thusly keep your priority at a normal level. I personally like Lugia and Giratina/Giratina-O as Gods. Both have tremendous staying power and a good bit of supporting ability. To me, waging a war of attrition is the best way to defeat opposing Gods, as MOST players are less-than-willing to risk a God in an even fight. Slowly beating out checks to your team via a bulky God, and then breaking your opponent's God witht the rest of your team seems like a solid playstyle. But that's my opinion.
Reshiram is my personal favourite god at the moment. Reshiram hits hard, has great typing, equal bulk to Dialga and reliable recovery. Dragon/Fire complement each other really well, and both types have a great cast list (Garchomp, Mega Charizard, Mega Altaria, Heatran, Volcarona, Talonflame, Dragonite etc.).
As for Rayquaza vs Mega Salamence, it comes down to power and freedom of mega vs speed and bulk.
As for Rayquaza vs Mega Salamence, it comes down to power and freedom of mega vs speed and bulk.
Battle earlier today with my opponent. I used Reshiram as my god - (s)he used Yveltal.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-godsandfollowers-1469
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-godsandfollowers-1469
Thanks for posting. This made me check if anyone else has saved replays, and it turns out we have dozens! I've updated the OP with replays based on matchup, if you'd like to see the metagame in action. There're some very close games haha.
When looking through them, I also noticed something -- Mega Rayquaza is not actually banned. However, rather than changing the code right away, I'm going to leave Mega Rayquaza unbanned for the time being. I'm doing this for the following reasons:
1) Mega Rayquaza recently became part of the new VGC metagame, and it honestly seems to be less used than the Primals/Xerneas
2) The AG metagame has adapted to the point where it's not even the most threatening 'mon in the tier
And most importantly...
3) In this metagame specifically, a Mega Rayquaza team is inherently Ice weak, and Mega Rayquaza itself has less bulk than other gods
It will still be a threat and half, but I'm just going to test it out for a while. If this wins OMotM at some point, I'll formally re-suspect/quick-ban it.
Discuss.
When looking through them, I also noticed something -- Mega Rayquaza is not actually banned. However, rather than changing the code right away, I'm going to leave Mega Rayquaza unbanned for the time being. I'm doing this for the following reasons:
1) Mega Rayquaza recently became part of the new VGC metagame, and it honestly seems to be less used than the Primals/Xerneas
2) The AG metagame has adapted to the point where it's not even the most threatening 'mon in the tier
And most importantly...
3) In this metagame specifically, a Mega Rayquaza team is inherently Ice weak, and Mega Rayquaza itself has less bulk than other gods
It will still be a threat and half, but I'm just going to test it out for a while. If this wins OMotM at some point, I'll formally re-suspect/quick-ban it.
Discuss.
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