OU Greedent

[kt3]

[SET]
name: Big Chungus (Belly Drum)
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Facade
move 3: Fire Fang
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Cheek Pouch
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 84 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Greedent has solid bulk and access to Belly Drum + Cheek Pouch, but it finds trouble fitting in OU with its bad defensive typing, shallow utility, and extremely low Speed. Moreover, it can only set up one time without sacrificing too much health and is basically trapped after it uses Belly Drum. Nevertheless, it can still function as a setup wallbreaker that can chip down bulkier threats for its faster teammates. Greedent finds it best to set up on Choice-locked Dragapult and more passive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, and Body Slam is Greedent's go-to move after setting up, nailing neutral targets such as Mandibuzz and Seismitoad; however, Facade may be used with less Attack investment to fare better versus burn from Rotom-A and Seismitoad at the cost of missing out on a few OHKOs when Greedent is not status inflicted. Fire Fang hits Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Corviknight, which resist Greedent's STAB moves, while Earthquake provides the best option for Toxapex, Jellicent, and Dragapult. Sitrus Berry is used in conjunction with Cheek Pouch to heal off damage from Belly Drum, and 4 HP EVs are crucial to trigger both upon setting up. The given investment in Attack and defenses secures the OHKO after entry hazard damage on most defensive threats such as Mandibuzz and Corviknight and allows Greedent to survive strong hits from even Choice Specs Dragapult and Choice Scarf Dracovish to fire off hits. However, a more defensive EV spread of 4 HP / 32 Atk / 208 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe with an Impish nature is the better option when using Facade to survive more hits, in particular Mandibuzz's Foul Play at +6, letting it retaliate with chip damage.

Greedent primarily functions well with faster offensive threats such as Dragapult, Hydreigon, and Sand Rush Excadrill, as they appreciate its ability to chip down walls, notably Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz. Moreover, it is outsped and OHKOed by Fighting-types such as Hawlucha and Conkeldurr before it can set up; Ghost-types such as Galarian Corsola and Dragapult can take hits from them thanks to their Fighting immunity. In return, Greedent switches into Ghost-type attacks, providing it with setup opportunities as well. Mandibuzz and Corviknight are also nice to have due to the free switches they provide through U-turn for Greedent to start setting up. Entry hazard support from Pokemon like Tyranitar and Ferrothorn lets it nag crucial KOs on Corviknight and Seismitoad.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[kt3, 228482]]
- Quality checked by: [[GMars, 273636], [Gary, 101351]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Rabia, 336073]]

 

[kt3]

Sorry I've been busy lately, but I will write this up tomorrow. It's almost midnight in our time. I'll finish this within the deadline.

 

[kt3]

This is ready for QC. :).

 

[Guprei]

good one kt3!

 

[scorbunnys]

Greedent is quite interesting, the only squirrel on route 1 good, good analysis :)

 

[MeepBard]

not QC - implement what you want!

amcheck

Greedent has solid bulk, but it finds trouble fitting in the tier with its bad defensive typing,

i wouldn’t say normal is a bad defensive typing necessarily, maybe specifically mention its weakness to common fighting types and fighting type coverage

and one-shot-only gimmick.

i get what you mean here but i feel like it should probably be worded differently, something like “its flaw in only being able to set up once”? only setting up once isn’t a gimmick or niche really, it’s a flaw

Moreover, it faces competition with other walls

i wouldn’t really call greedent a wall as it lacks recovery and really aims to just set up and try to (unsuccessfully) break things with body press, but at the same time i don’t know what greedent would fall under. wallbreaker, maybe? you might wanna consult QC about this point, i dunno

and more support options, and it is no better than Falinks as a one-time setup Pokemon.

being a one-time setup mon is a flaw, not a niche - i’d remove the mention of Falinks and reword this sentence to something about saying how other setup sweepers are better than Greedent because they can afford to switch after boosting

it is crucial to find the best opportunity to set this up, as Greedent is basically unable to switch out afterwards.

reword this to something along the lines of “as Greedent is unable to switch out without permanently losing its boosts”

 

[GMars]

[SET]
name: Big Chungus (Physically Defensive)
move 1: Stuff Cheeks
move 2: Body Press
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Crunch
item: Ganlon Berry
ability: Cheek Pouch
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Greedent has solid bulk, but it finds trouble fitting in the tier with its bad defensive typing, shallow utility, and one-shot-only gimmick. Moreover, it faces competition with other walls that have better resistances, reliable recovery, and more support options, and it is no better than Falinks as a one-time setup Pokemon. Notwithstanding, its signature Stuff Cheeks and ability to switch into Ghost-types give it a niche. Body Press is used in conjunction with Stuff Cheeks + Ganlon Berry, Cheek Pouch, and maximum physical bulk investment, functioning as Greedent's go-to move to deal massive damage while tanking physical hits well; it is crucial to find the best opportunity to set this up, as Greedent is basically unable to switch out afterwards. Body Slam is the favored STAB move, proving utility through its high paralysis chance. Crunch fills the last spot to cover for Ghost-types such as Dragapult and Gengar, which are immune to Body Press and Body Slam.

Greedent is outsped and OHKOed by Fighting-types such as Hawlucha and Conkeldurr before it can set up; Ghost-types such as Galarian Corsola and Dragapult can take these hits for Greedent thanks to their immunity. In return, Greedent switches into Ghost-type attacks, providing for setup opportunities as well. Mandibuzz and Corviknight are also nice to have due to the free switches they provide through U-turn; they also check certain Pokemon Greedent cannot deal with such as Hatterene and Toxapex. Greedent's susceptibility to special moves is mitigated by special walls such as Clefable and Galarian Corsola. Meanwhile, its power to break into Ferrothorn and Tyranitar is appreciated by Dragapult and Togekiss.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[username1, userid1]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

My concerns:
First off, Greedent is unviable as a whole in OU. This analysis needs to stress that throughout. The first sentence is good on this point, but saying that Greedent even has a niche with this set is not true. The +Def Body Press Gimmick is wholely unviable due to Greedent's lack of recovery, and trying to break things with Body Press is not reasonable in a meta where Ghost-types are prevalent, the Ghost-types are specially offensive, and they can generally shrug off your uninvested Crunch.

Greedent is not a wall. Especially with a one-shot set and no recovery aside from your one-shot setup, you should never consider Greedent as a wall.

The only Greedent set that I can see as remotely niche is the Belly Drum set, allowing Greedent to potentially act as a one-time wallbreaker to try to chip things down for faster partners. It's still held back by pitiful speed, but its natural bulk and Cheek Pouch can give it a chance.

[SET]
name: Big Chungus (Belly Drum)
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Facade
move 3: Fire Fang
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Cheek Pouch
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 84 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe


Sitrus Berry + Cheek Pouch will generally leave Greedent with enough HP to throw out a devastating hit or two given its good natural bulk and in certain scenarios even get Greedent back to full HP even after taking some chip damage. This set has the benefit like you mentioned of being able to take advantage of Choice-locked Ghost-moves, like Dragapult's Shadow Ball, as a setup opportunity. You can also use more passive Pokemon like Ferrothorn as chances to fire off Belly Drums. Primarily mention fast offensive partners that appreciate weakened walls, like your own Dragapult.

To explain the set, Fire Fang is for Ferrothorn and Corviknight, while Earthquake is for Toxapex primarily to prevent Haze but also to make for a good neutral move against Jellicent and Dragapult. Investing in Attack lets Greedent OHKO Mandibuzz with +6 Body Slam, OHKO Mixed defensive Corviknight after Stealth Rock, and OHKO physically defensive Seismitoad after Stealth Rock. The Speed investment lets Greedent outspeed Toxapex. The 4 HP EVs keep your HP stat even to trigger Sitrus Berry and Cheek Pouch after a Belly Drum, the SpDef investment lets you survive a Dragapult's Choice Specs Draco Meteor after Stealth Rock, and the Def investment gives you a decent chance to survive a Choice Scarf Dracovish's Fishious Rend in the worst case scenario while also generally giving you more bulk to setup and attack with, which is very important given Greedent's abysmal Speed. (Splitting EVs into defenses separately is better than investing solely in HP because of Greedent's stat distribution, I calc'd. A lot.).

If using Facade over Body Slam for additional assurance against burns from Seismitoad and Rotom formes, the Attack investment can be scaled back a bit since it's primarily for important Body Slam rolls and put into defenses to give Greedent a better chance of taking down multiple foes while also letting it survive a Foul Play at +6 if it successfully gets full recovery after Belly Drumming, letting it still weaken Foul Play Mandibuzz to support partners like Dragapult. Keep at least 32 Attack EVs to let Earthquake OHKO physically defensive Toxapex to prevent a Haze, so the alternate spread looks like: 4 HP / 32 Atk / 208 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe with an Impish nature.

----

I probably went a bit long with all of that but in general to give Greedent a niche in this OU run by Ghost-types, it should be run as something that can break some walls on bulkier teams to let faster teammates have an easier time cleaning. Sorry for the long post, but if you swap the set around tag me and I can look it over again quick and give this a QC stamp. You can keep the Big Chungus name too btw lol

 

[Gary]

 

[Jordy]

 

[lydian]

View attachment 215818

 

[kt3]

My concerns:
First off, Greedent is unviable as a whole in OU. This analysis needs to stress that throughout. The first sentence is good on this point, but saying that Greedent even has a niche with this set is not true. The +Def Body Press Gimmick is wholely unviable due to Greedent's lack of recovery, and trying to break things with Body Press is not reasonable in a meta where Ghost-types are prevalent, the Ghost-types are specially offensive, and they can generally shrug off your uninvested Crunch.

Greedent is not a wall. Especially with a one-shot set and no recovery aside from your one-shot setup, you should never consider Greedent as a wall.

The only Greedent set that I can see as remotely niche is the Belly Drum set, allowing Greedent to potentially act as a one-time wallbreaker to try to chip things down for faster partners. It's still held back by pitiful speed, but its natural bulk and Cheek Pouch can give it a chance.

[SET]
name: Big Chungus (Belly Drum)
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Facade
move 3: Fire Fang
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Cheek Pouch
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 84 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe


Sitrus Berry + Cheek Pouch will generally leave Greedent with enough HP to throw out a devastating hit or two given its good natural bulk and in certain scenarios even get Greedent back to full HP even after taking some chip damage. This set has the benefit like you mentioned of being able to take advantage of Choice-locked Ghost-moves, like Dragapult's Shadow Ball, as a setup opportunity. You can also use more passive Pokemon like Ferrothorn as chances to fire off Belly Drums. Primarily mention fast offensive partners that appreciate weakened walls, like your own Dragapult.

To explain the set, Fire Fang is for Ferrothorn and Corviknight, while Earthquake is for Toxapex primarily to prevent Haze but also to make for a good neutral move against Jellicent and Dragapult. Investing in Attack lets Greedent OHKO Mandibuzz with +6 Body Slam, OHKO Mixed defensive Corviknight after Stealth Rock, and OHKO physically defensive Seismitoad after Stealth Rock. The Speed investment lets Greedent outspeed Toxapex. The 4 HP EVs keep your HP stat even to trigger Sitrus Berry and Cheek Pouch after a Belly Drum, the SpDef investment lets you survive a Dragapult's Choice Specs Draco Meteor after Stealth Rock, and the Def investment gives you a decent chance to survive a Choice Scarf Dracovish's Fishious Rend in the worst case scenario while also generally giving you more bulk to setup and attack with, which is very important given Greedent's abysmal Speed. (Splitting EVs into defenses separately is better than investing solely in HP because of Greedent's stat distribution, I calc'd. A lot.).

If using Facade over Body Slam for additional assurance against burns from Seismitoad and Rotom formes, the Attack investment can be scaled back a bit since it's primarily for important Body Slam rolls and put into defenses to give Greedent a better chance of taking down multiple foes while also letting it survive a Foul Play at +6 if it successfully gets full recovery after Belly Drumming, letting it still weaken Foul Play Mandibuzz to support partners like Dragapult. Keep at least 32 Attack EVs to let Earthquake OHKO physically defensive Toxapex to prevent a Haze, so the alternate spread looks like: 4 HP / 32 Atk / 208 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe with an Impish nature.

----

I probably went a bit long with all of that but in general to give Greedent a niche in this OU run by Ghost-types, it should be run as something that can break some walls on bulkier teams to let faster teammates have an easier time cleaning. Sorry for the long post, but if you swap the set around tag me and I can look it over again quick and give this a QC stamp. You can keep the Big Chungus name too btw lol

Thanks a lot :). I don't really mind long posts esp since this needs a set overhaul. Big big thank you :). Implemented this, and I >tried< to keep things as short as possible without sacrificing much content.

Tagging you to go over this again. :) GMars

 

[GMars]

; however, Facade may be used with less Attack investment to fare better versus burn from Rotom formes and Toxapex at the cost of missing out on a few OHKOs when it is not status-inflicted

Remove Toxapex here and replace it with Seismitoad, you always EQ on pex and are faster to avoid a haze so you don't have to fear its burn

allows Greedent to take hits from Choice Specs Dragapult and Choice Scard Dracovish to set up and fire off hits

minor tweak, change this to "allows Greedent to survive strong hits from even Choice Specs Dragapult and Choice Scarf Dracovish to fire off hits," you can't set up on dracovish because 2 rends will kill it, it's more of an if you happen to have gotten back to full from cheek pouch + sitrus berry it doesn't automatically revenge kill you or in the absolute worse case scenario you can fish for a body slam para

but a more defensive EV spread in 4 HP / 32 Atk / 208 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe with an Impish nature is the better option when using Facade.

after Facade add "to survive more hits and even live Mandibuzz's Foul Play at +6 from full to weaken it," or however you want to word it, I feel like mentioning Foul Play specifically with this spread is worthwhile though

Team options look much better. Can add Sand Rush Excadrill in the part with dragapult and hydreigon since you mention ttar as a rocker for it.

Great work, thanks for the quick turnaround! qc 1/2

 

[kt3]

Remove Toxapex here and replace it with Seismitoad, you always EQ on pex and are faster to avoid a haze so you don't have to fear its burn


minor tweak, change this to "allows Greedent to survive strong hits from even Choice Specs Dragapult and Choice Scarf Dracovish to fire off hits," you can't set up on dracovish because 2 rends will kill it, it's more of an if you happen to have gotten back to full from cheek pouch + sitrus berry it doesn't automatically revenge kill you or in the absolute worse case scenario you can fish for a body slam para


after Facade add "to survive more hits and even live Mandibuzz's Foul Play at +6 from full to weaken it," or however you want to word it, I feel like mentioning Foul Play specifically with this spread is worthwhile though

Team options look much better. Can add Sand Rush Excadrill in the part with dragapult and hydreigon since you mention ttar as a rocker for it.

Great work, thanks for the quick turnaround! qc 1/2

Done :). Thanks!! Ready for QC 2. :>

 

[Gary]

QC 2/2

 

[kt3]

QC 2/2

Thanks :). Will get credits done soon and then post to gp thread.

 

[Rabia]

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gp

[SET]
name: Big Chungus (Belly Drum)
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Facade
move 3: Fire Fang
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Cheek Pouch
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 84 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Greedent has solid bulk and access to Belly Drum + Cheek Pouch, but it finds trouble fitting in the tier OU with its bad defensive typing, shallow utility, and extremely low Speed. Moreover, it can only set up(spacing) one time without sacrificing too much health and is basically trapped after it uses Belly Drum. Nevertheless, it can still function as a setup wallbreaker that can chip down bulkier threats for its faster teammates. Greedent finds it best to set up on Choice-locked Dragapult and more passive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, and Body Slam is Greedent's go-to move with Belly Drum after setting up (I think you mean this?), nailing most Pokemon without resistance or immunity neutral targets (most targets... hard? or do you just mean this move hits ALL neutral targets hard?) such as Mandibuzz and Seismitoad; however, Facade may be used with less Attack investment to fare better versus burn from Rotom formes Rotom-A and Seismitoad at the cost of missing out on a few OHKOs when it Greedent is not status inflicted(RH). Fire Fang hits Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Corviknight, which resist Greedent's STAB moves, while Earthquake provides the best option versus for Toxapex, Jellicent, and Dragapult. Sitrus Berry is used in conjuction conjunction with Cheek Pouch to heal off damage from Belly Drum, and 4 HP EVs are crucial to trigger both upon setting up. The given investment on in Attack and defenses secures the OHKO after entry hazard damage on most defensive threats in OU such as Mandibuzz and Corviknight and allows Greedent to survive strong hits from even Choice Specs Dragapult and Choice Scarf Dracovish to fire off hits. However, a more defensive EV spread in of 4 HP / 32 Atk / 208 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe with an Impish nature is the better option when using Facade to survive more hits, in particular Mandibuzz's Foul Play at +6, to return letting it retaliate with chip damage.

Greedent primarily functions well with faster offensive threats such as Dragapult, Hydreigon, and Sand Rush Excadrill, as they appreciate its ability to chip down walls, notably Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz. Moreover, it is outsped and OHKOed by Fighting-types such as Hawlucha and Conkeldurr before it can set up; Ghost-types such as Galarian Corsola and Dragapult can take hits from them thanks to their Fighting immunity. In return, Greedent switches into Ghost-type attacks, providing for it with setup opportunities as well. Mandibuzz and Corviknight are also nice to have due to the free switches they provide through U-turn for Greedent to start setting up. Entry hazard support from Pokemon like Tyranitar and Ferrothorn lets it nag crucial KOs on Corviknight and Seismitoad.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[kt3, 228482]]
- Quality checked by: [[GMars, 273636], [Gary, 101351]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

gp 1/1 once done

 

[kt3]

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gp

[SET]
name: Big Chungus (Belly Drum)
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Facade
move 3: Fire Fang
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Cheek Pouch
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 84 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Greedent has solid bulk and access to Belly Drum + Cheek Pouch, but it finds trouble fitting in the tier OU with its bad defensive typing, shallow utility, and extremely low Speed. Moreover, it can only set up(spacing) one time without sacrificing too much health and is basically trapped after it uses Belly Drum. Nevertheless, it can still function as a setup wallbreaker that can chip down bulkier threats for its faster teammates. Greedent finds it best to set up on Choice-locked Dragapult and more passive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, and Body Slam is Greedent's go-to move with Belly Drum after setting up (I think you mean this?), nailing most Pokemon without resistance or immunity neutral targets (most targets... hard? or do you just mean this move hits ALL neutral targets hard?) such as Mandibuzz and Seismitoad; however, Facade may be used with less Attack investment to fare better versus burn from Rotom formes Rotom-A and Seismitoad at the cost of missing out on a few OHKOs when it Greedent is not status inflicted(RH). Fire Fang hits Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Corviknight, which resist Greedent's STAB moves, while Earthquake provides the best option versus for Toxapex, Jellicent, and Dragapult. Sitrus Berry is used in conjuction conjunction with Cheek Pouch to heal off damage from Belly Drum, and 4 HP EVs are crucial to trigger both upon setting up. The given investment on in Attack and defenses secures the OHKO after entry hazard damage on most defensive threats in OU such as Mandibuzz and Corviknight and allows Greedent to survive strong hits from even Choice Specs Dragapult and Choice Scarf Dracovish to fire off hits. However, a more defensive EV spread in of 4 HP / 32 Atk / 208 Def / 140 SpD / 124 Spe with an Impish nature is the better option when using Facade to survive more hits, in particular Mandibuzz's Foul Play at +6, to return letting it retaliate with chip damage.

Greedent primarily functions well with faster offensive threats such as Dragapult, Hydreigon, and Sand Rush Excadrill, as they appreciate its ability to chip down walls, notably Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz. Moreover, it is outsped and OHKOed by Fighting-types such as Hawlucha and Conkeldurr before it can set up; Ghost-types such as Galarian Corsola and Dragapult can take hits from them thanks to their Fighting immunity. In return, Greedent switches into Ghost-type attacks, providing for it with setup opportunities as well. Mandibuzz and Corviknight are also nice to have due to the free switches they provide through U-turn for Greedent to start setting up. Entry hazard support from Pokemon like Tyranitar and Ferrothorn lets it nag crucial KOs on Corviknight and Seismitoad.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[kt3, 228482]]
- Quality checked by: [[GMars, 273636], [Gary, 101351]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

gp 1/1 once done

Thank you :).

This has been done, but can we wait a bit before upload, since DMed a q to Rabia about an edit (it's actually a non-edit on a bit I purposely formatted weirdly to address a GP question). Thanks a lot :).

You can proceed to upload tho if this holds back progress for the upcoming wave of full-on analyses.

 

[kt3]

Thank you :).

This has been done, but can we wait a bit before upload, since DMed a q to Rabia about an edit (it's actually a non-edit on a bit I purposely formatted weirdly to address a GP question). Thanks a lot :).

You can proceed to upload tho if this holds back progress for the upcoming wave of full-on analyses.

It has been addressed (keep orig). This is now done. Thank you, everyone!