Ubers Greninja

Stoward

Yare yare daze
is a Tiering Contributor
[OVERVIEW]

* Access to Spikes and Taunt and a Speed tier that allows it to outspeed Arceus formes provide Greninja with a nice niche as a dedicated lead in the Ubers tier.
* Greninja's Water / Dark typing allows it to also be a great anti-lead against other common dedicated leads such as Cloyster and Deoxys-S, as it naturally resists Cloyster's attacks, outspeeds it, and can use Taunt against it, and it is able to 2HKO and force predictions against Deoxys-S. Furthermore, unlike Cloyster, Necrozma-DM is unable to lead against it.
* Greninja does, however, struggle to really dish out any damage prior to activating Battle Bond, which can make it difficult to effectively provide offensive pressure, as it needs to claim a KO in order to do so. This low damage output results in it being completely shut down by the tier's two Magic Bounce users in Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye, which are able to bounce back entry hazards and use Taunt against it while failing to be 2HKOed by any of its attacks.
* Its subpar bulk also means that it can often struggle to get many entry hazards up against setup sweepers, as it is forced to use Taunt on them to prevent them from setting up but is also very often brought down to its Focus Sash even without boosts. If these setup sweepers have access to a priority move, Greninja can completely fail to get up any entry hazards.

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Dark Pulse
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
item: Focus Sash
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Spikes is a really effective means of punishing grounded Pokemon, as it deals up to 25% of the maximum HP in damage to any Pokemon that switches in. This allows your team to more effectively pressure Steel-type threats such as Necrozma-DM and Magearna, which otherwise take minimal damage from Stealth Rock.
* Taunt stops setup, entry hazards being put up, status spreading, and entry hazard removal, thus being crucial in order for Greninja to effectively perform its role as a suicide lead.
Dark Pulse prevents Greninja from being completely passive, preventing it from becoming setup fodder for offensive Necrozma-DM at Team Preview. It also allows Greninja to utilize its ability in Battle Bond, allowing it to become a more offensive threat, most notably outspeeding Mega Gengar and Ultra Necrozma and being able to OHKO them both, as well as 2HKOing Trick Room Necrozma-DM.
* Substitute is primarily used to stop Smeargle from paralyzing Greninja with Nuzzle, as Taunt doesn't prevent Smeargle from using this move. Once Greninja is behind a Substitute, this puts it in a situation of mind games, rather than Greninja being at a disadvantage.
* Ice Beam allows Greninja to pressure Mega Salamence and Zygarde better, as it is able to OHKO Salamence even without Battle Bond, whereas after transformation, it's able to outspeed +1 offensive Zygarde-C and OHKO it. It also gives it a chance of 2HKOing Mega Diancie, which otherwise would be able to prevent Greninja from setting up entry hazards, and is immune to Taunt thanks to Magic Bounce, and is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash with Moonblast.

Set Details
========

* This is a classic offensive set with maximum Special Attack investment for the highest possible damage output and maximum Speed investment so Greninja moves first. A Timid nature is required in order for Greninja to outspeed Arceus formes, which is crucial to prevent it them from using Defog.

Usage Tips
========

* Greninja's main focus should be to set Spikes and prevent the opposing team from either setting up in front of it, removing these Spikes or setting their own entry hazards by clicking Taunt.
* Against setup sweepers, such as Rock Polish Primal Groudon and Extreme Killer Arceus, Greninja should prioritize clicking Taunt, as the offensive builds that Greninja fits best on tend to struggle to have the tools to deal with these threats.
* If it's not able to activate Battle Bond, Greninja should be used to chip away at the foe with either Dark Pulse or Ice Beam, providing its teammates with an easier time of setting up to sweep. Due to its relatively low bulk and damage output prior to activating Battle Bond, if entry hazards are on your side of the field or if its Focus Sash has been broken, Greninja is best used as a sacrifice fodder to provide you with an opportunity to bring in a teammate without taking any extra damage.
* If Greninja is able to activate Battle Bond, it can be preserved, as it can become a potential revenge killer for weakened foes, as it's only naturally outsped by Deoxys-A, Pheromosa, and Mega Mewtwo Y, and it's able to outspeed a +1 Zygarde.

Team Options
========

* As Greninja's primary role is to provide offensive pressure by setting Spikes and it is only really used as a dedicated lead, its teammates need to also be offensive Pokemon to compensate for its general lack of offensive pressure and to ensure that Greninja's entry hazards stay on the battlefield after it has been KOed.
* Strong wallbreakers such as Xerneas, Necrozma-DM or Ultra Necrozma, and Mega Salamence are all incredible partners for Greninja, as the addition of Spikes on the battlefield makes it harder for opposing Pokemon to switch into them. Futhermore, all of these Pokemon are able to punish any attempts to remove entry hazards by setting up with their dedicated boosting move, ultimately making them harder to switch into.
* Checks to the tier's Magic Bounce users in Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie as well as Fairy-type answers are crucial teammates for Greninja, as Magic Bounce completely removes Greninja's ability to set entry hazards.
* Offensive Stealth Rock Primal Groudon sets are almost mandatory on teams with Greninja, as Stealth Rock is still able to punish all Ground-immune foes that take no damage from Spikes such as Yveltal, Ho-Oh, and Lugia, providing additional damage to grounded foes. Furthermore, it is able to provide teams with a much-needed answer to Xerneas and is able to comfortably anti-lead against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.
* Fast Taunt users such as Mega Gengar and Yveltal are great partners for Greninja, as they're able to prevent foes from removing entry hazards after Greninja has been KOed, as well as acting as great anti-offense measures, as they prevent setup sweepers from setting up. Mega Gengar is especially noteworthy here, as its super fast Taunt is useful for preventing support Arceus formes from using Defog, as well as punishing Choice-locked Defoggers such as Xerneas, as they risk getting trapped and KOed thanks to Mega Gengar's Shadow Tag.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

* Greninja has a very specific niche in the Ubers tier, so despite its impressive movepool, it isn't really able to utilize the majority of these.
* Water Shuriken or Shadow Sneak could be potentially useful to improve the matchup against Deoxys-S by preventing it from getting up multiple entry hazards; however, Greninja would much prefer to run either Ice Beam or Substitute in this slot due to the coverage or utility options these moves offer.
* Hydro Pump can be used as a fourth move in order to pressure Mega Diancie; however, this would be sacrificing the coverage options that Ice Beam could offer or the security of Substitute.
* A suicide lead set with Protean containing Spikes + Toxic Spikes + Taunt + Shadow Sneak with the ability Protean can be run, utilizing Greninja's ability to set dual entry hazards and spinblock with Shadow Sneak; however, this takes away Greninja's niche with Battle Bond and tends to be outclassed by other entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Magic Bounce**: Both of the viable Magic Bounce users in Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye aren't too fazed by any of Greninja's attacks and can bounce back Spikes and Taunt thanks to their ability. Mega Diancie is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash with Moonblast, while Mega Sableye is able to avoid the 2HKO and stall it out with Toxic + Recover. It does, however, have to be cautious of Dark Pulse flinches.

**Smeargle**: Smeargle can be a real hassle for Greninja, as it is able to bounce back its entry hazards, Taunt it with Magic Coat, and paralyze it with Nuzzle; it also causes a nuisance to the type of teams Greninja thrives on by slowing down the whole grounded team with Sticky Web.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers are able to potentially completely prevent or limit the amount of entry hazards that Greninja is able to set, as it is forced to Taunt them to prevent them from sweeping, rather than focusing on setting entry hazards. Setup sweepers with priority attacks such as Arceus and Mega Lucario are able to potentially completely deter Greninja from setting entry hazards, as Arceus is able to 2HKO Greninja with Extreme Speed and Mega Lucario is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash and then pick it off with Bullet Punch.

**Faster Offensive Threats**: Ultra Necrozma, Choice Scarf Yveltal, and Choice Scarf Xerneas all have enough natural bulk to be able to survive a single hit from Greninja and can 2HKO it or bring it down to its Focus Sash with any of their attacks, limiting Greninja to only being able to set up one entry hazard at most.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Stoward, 420389]]
- Quality checked by: [[nayrz,212134 ], [cynara,224455], [minority,222996]]
- Grammar checked by: [[deetah,297659 ], [the-dutch-plumberjack,232216]]
 
Last edited:

Lotus

meowsfqenuxydasdfh
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hi just a few things

* Its Water/Dark typing allows Greninja to also be a great counterlead against other common Dedicated leads such as Cloyster and Deoxys-S, as it naturally resists Cloyster's attacks, outspeeds it and can Taunt it, and it is able to 2HKO and force 50/50s against Deoxys-S.
Gren can counterlead against these folks but I would also mention that suicide leads as well as other relevant 'mons in the tier can't lead fearing the transformation
* Greninja does however struggle to really dish out any damage prior to transforming, which can make it difficult to effectively provide offensive pressure as it needs to claim a KO in order to obtain its Battle Bond forme. This low damage output results in it being completely shut down by the Tier's two Magic Bounce users, Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye, who are able to bounce back Entry Hazards and Taunt, while failing to be 2HKO'd by any of Greninja's attacks.
Not sure about Mega Sableye though because Dark Pulse 3HKOs, you can avoid status by being Dark-type and avoiding Prankster and setting sub that has 0.3% chance to be broken with FP so the one really is bothered here is MSab imo, you'll have reasonable chance to flinch it and at worst leave it chipped for teammates. Dark Pulse's damage chip on Mega Sableye is the difference between whether setup sweepers like Pdon / Dusk can OHKO it without SD or Z respectively.
* It's sub-par bulk also means that it can often struggle to get many hazards up against setup sweepers, as it is forced to Taunt them to prevent them from setting up, but it is also very often brought down to its Sash even without boosts. If these setup sweepers have access to a priority move, then Greninja can potentially completely fail to get up any entry hazards.
This kinda applies to every hazard setters and the problem you mention is kinda dealt by Ice Beam imo.

Also not sure if it is important to mention in Overview but gren's damage output in general is a problem, before and after transformation. It has enough to beat other suicide leads you cover but it has like ~50% chance to OHKO Marshadow after Life Orb, SR, and stat drop from CC and has unfavorable chance to 2HKO Excadrill (again, not so relevant mon but jw).

On Usage Tips I'd talk about the situations that are divided depending on Gren's 4th move. No sub means leading vs stuff like sab / smeargle can be awkward and no Ice Beam means DD users will be an issue. Because of how my memory tells me that setup sweepers forcing 50/50 vs gren are much more relevant and dangerous than cheesing vs smeargle and msab I'd honestly slash Ice Beam / Substitute on the moves section. That's QC's territory though...
You are setting Spikes first with team using Gren so theres a room for some airborne mons coming in so that they can Defog once gren's out. Some of these mons are even scarfed so I'd advise the readers to think about potential Defog users and if keeping Spikes on field isn't gonna be a thing for a long time I'd explain to use it as an opportunity to set up SR, set up with another mon, or even get SR up first and use gren's fast Taunt to keep SR and add Spikes onto it.

* Answers to E-Killer Arceus are mandatory for Greninja
Honestly this is where I'd address concerns about setup sweepers that lead vs gren, stuff like Rayquaza. I count Geoxern as an issue too because you can't identify whether it is scarf or not so using Taunt it turn 1 becomes very risky. One can argue you can somehow predict Xern's moveset by looking at the rest of the team but that's not the stuff for analyses... I think you mention appropriate examples but there are more that can definitely be covered and I'd specifically mention priority users to pick up on mons that set up on gren.

Short on time so just this much. Wouldn't make a specific section for Smeargle in checks and counters bc it risks the flinch as well and if it nuzzles on sub it's done for it. Setup sweepers that force 50/50 is much more an issue for gren imo.

Feel free to ignore this etc
 

Nayrz

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Ubers Leader
* Its Water/Dark typing allows Greninja to also be a great counterlead against other common Dedicated leads such as Cloyster and Deoxys-S, as it naturally resists Cloyster's attacks, outspeeds it and can Taunt it, and it is able to 2HKO and force 50/50s against Deoxys-S.
When compared to Cloyster also note that Dark-type STAB (and Taunt) means Dusk cannot lead against it. This is in Moves, but is probably easier to mention here.
* Greninja's ability Battle Bond also allows Greninja to become an effective offensive threat, providing it with a much more stellar Special Attack and Speed tier. Most notably outspeeding foes such as Mega Gengar, Ultra Necrozma, and a +1 Zygarde-C and being able to OHKO them with Dark Pulse and Ice Beam respectively. Furthermore, its typing means that it resists Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak and Sucker punch, resulting in Extreme Speed being the only Priority that can really pose a major threat to it.
I feel this is overstating things. Ash Greninja only comes into play in rare cases in lead matchups its favored in, assuming the opponent lets it happen in the first place. It isn't worth going over as an offensive threat in the Overview when its just a bonus perk that can come in handy or gain something favorable that Protean sets wouldn't provide. This point could probably be removed from here.
* Spikes is a really effective means of punishing grounded Pokemon, as it deals up to 25% of the maximum HP in damage to any Pokemon that switches in.
We should be a bit more specific as to why we use Spikes other than the obvious. Steels such as Dusk and Magearna dislike Spikes more when compared to SR, meaning Greninja is a better hazard mon for Xerneas and other mons afraid of them than most (similarly to Cloyster). Additional context makes even the most basic shit sound meta relevant which is what we look for.
* Checks to the tier's Magic Bounce user's Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, as well as Fairy-type answers are crucial teammates for Greninja, as Magic Bounce completely removes Greninja's ability to set hazards. Primal Groudon fits this role incredibly well, as it's able to naturally check these Pokemon due to it's brilliant offensive and defensive stats and naturally resisting Fairy-type attacks. Primal Groudon is also able to provide teams with a mandatory Stealth Rock setter if needed, or it can opt to run one of it's more threatening setup sets such as Dual Dance or Mixed Rock Polish. All offensive Primal Groudon sets are useable with Greninja as it's able to naturally punch holes in teams.
This should split into 2 where Groudon starts being mentioned.
* Answers to E-Killer Arceus are mandatory for Greninja, as it's able to 2HKO it with its priority Extreme Speed, even if it's unboosted. Mega Gengar and Marshadow are decent partners here as they're both immune to Extreme Speed and can heavily dent them with Focus Blast and Close Combat respectively, however both of them are unable to OHKO Arceus-Normal as they tend to run Chople Berry and Marshadow has a chance to be OHKO'd with Shadow Claw. Mega Gengar is also able to prevent defog and setup with Taunt, while Marshadow can act as a brilliant anti-offense measure thanks to it stealing boosts with Shadow Sneak. All of these Pokemon are also useful as they're immune to the rare Rapid Spin and appreciate Greninja's ability to pressure opposing Ghost-types such as opposing Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and Giratina-O.
This is way too stacked up. Mega Gengar is a poor answer in USM without Wisp which it rarely runs. Extreme Killer Arceus is beaten with hard hitting if it tries to set up vs something. Taunt stops it setting up on Greninja. If it sets up somehow, you trade damage (Marsh can do half, Geoxern can do half if at full, TR Dusk forces good damage, your own Arceus can chip it, a bulky scarf Yveltal if you are really scared). Beating Ekiller is something players have to learn to deal with offensively rather than dedicating checks - HO simply can't afford to do otherwise. Also, don't be afraid to split things into multiple points. We're using bullet points to make things easier to digest here, and this is just nuts.

Don't be afraid to take inspiration from obii's RMT, which is one of the few well known applications of the mon in the metagame.

OO should feature Hydro Pump (Diancie) and Toxic Spikes (using Protean, so dual hazards is also possible).

I'll relook post changes.
 

deetah

Same old shit but a different day
is a Pre-Contributor
Add Remove Comments (AC) = Add Comma (RC) = Remove Comma (AH) = Add Hyphen (AP) = Add Period (RP) = Remove Period (SC) = Semicolon
Lots of changes here, be sure to read them all over and implement them carefully.

GP 1/2

garchompstamp.gif


[OVERVIEW]

* Access to Spikes, Taunt, and a Speed tier (Lowercase) that allows it to outspeed Arceus formes provides Greninja with a nice niche as a dedicated lead in the Ubers tier.
* Its Water/Dark Greninja's Water / Dark typing allows Greninja it to also be a great counterlead against other common dedicated leads such as Cloyster and Deoxys-S, as it naturally resists Cloyster's attacks, outspeeds it, (AC) and can use Taunt against it, and it is able to 2HKO and force 50/50s predictions against Deoxys-S. Furthermore, unlike Cloyster, Necrozma-DM is unable to lead against it.
* Greninja does, (AC) however, (AC) struggle to really dish out any damage prior to transforming, which can make it difficult to effectively provide offensive pressure, (AC) as it needs to claim a KO in order to obtain its Battle Bond forme. This low damage output results in it being completely shut down by the tier's two Magic Bounce users, (RC) in Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye, who which are able to bounce back entry hazards and use Taunt against it, (RC) while failing to be 2HKO'd 2HKOed by any of Greninja's attacks.
* It's sub-par Its subpar bulk also means that it can often struggle to get many entry hazards up against setup sweepers, as it is forced to use Taunt on them to prevent them from setting up, but it is also very often brought down to its Focus Sash even without boosts. If these setup sweepers have access to a priority move, then Greninja can potentially completely fail to get up any entry hazards.

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Dark Pulse
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
item: Focus Sash
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Spikes is a really effective means of punishing grounded Pokemon, as it deals up to 25% of the maximum HP in damage to any Pokemon that switches in. Allowing This allows it to more effectively pressure Steel-type threats such as Necrozma-DM and Magearna, who which otherwise take minimal damage from Stealth Rock.
* Taunt stops setup, entry hazards being put up, (AC) and status spreading, (AC) and entry hazard removal, (AC) and is thus being crucial in order for Greninja to effectively perform its role as a suicide lead.
* Dark Pulse prevents Greninja from being completely passive, preventing it from becoming setup fodder for offensive Necrozma-DM at Team Preview. It also allows Greninja to utilize its ability in Battle Bond, allowing it to become a more offensive threat, most notably outspeeding Mega Gengar and Ultra Necrozma and being able to OHKO them both and 2HKOing Trick Room Necrozma-DM.
* Ice Beam allows Greninja to pressure Mega Salamence and Zygarde better, as it is able to OHKO Salamence even without battle-bond and Battle Bond; (SC) in it's Ash-Greninja forme, it's able to outspeed offensive Zygarde-C at +1 and OHKO it. It also gives it a chance of 2KHOing Mega Diancie, who which otherwise would be able to prevent Greninja from setting up entry hazards and is immune to Taunt thanks to Magic Bounce, and is also able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash with Moonblast.
* Substitute is primarily for stopping used to stop Smeargle from paralyzing it with Nuzzle, as Taunt doesn't prevent Smeargle from using this move. Once Greninja is behind a Substitute, this puts it in a situation of 50-50s mind games, rather than Greninja being at a disadvantage.

Set Details
========

* This is a classic offensive set with maximum Special Attack investment for the highest possible damage output and Max maximum Speed investment so Greninja moves first. A Timid nature is required in order for Greninja to outspeed Arceus formes, which is crucial to prevent defogging it from using Defog.

Usage Tips
========

* Greninja's main focus should be to set Spikes and prevent the opposing team from either setting up in front of Greninja it, removing these Spikes or setting their own entry hazards by clicking Taunt.
* Against setup sweepers, such as Rock Polish Primal Groudon and E-Killer Extreme Killer Arceus, Greninja should prioritise prioritize clicking Taunt, as the offensive builds that Greninja fits best on tends to struggle to have the tools to deal with these threats.
* If it's not able to obtain Battle Bond, Greninja should be used to chip away at opponents the foe with either Dark Pulse or Ice Beam, providing its opponents teammates (I think this is what you meant?) with an easier time of setting up to sweep. Due to its relatively low bulk and damage output prior to obtaining Battle Bond, if entry hazards are on your side of the field or if its Focus Sash has been broken, Greninja is best used as a sacrifice fodder to provide you with an opportunity to bring in a teammate without taking any extra damage. (AP)
* If Greninja is able to obtain its Battle Bond forme, it can be preserved, (AC) as it can become a potential revenge killer for weakened foes, as it's only naturally outsped by Deoxys-A, Pheromosa, (AC) and Mega Mewtwo-Y Mega Mewtwo Y, and it's able to outspeed a +1 Zygarde.

Team Options
========

* As Greninja's primary role is to provide offensive pressure by setting Spikes and is only really used as a dedicated lead, Greninja's its teammates need to also be offensive Pokemon to compensate for Greninja's its general lack of offensive pressure and to ensure that Greninja's entry hazards stay on the battlefield after Greninja it has been KO'd KOed.
* Strong wallbreakers such as Xerneas, Necrozma-DM or Ultra Necrozma, (AC) and Mega Salamence are all incredible partners for Greninja, (AC) as the addition of Spikes on the battlefield makes it harder for opposing Pokemon to switch into them. Futhermore, all of these Pokemon are able to punish any attempts to remove entry hazards by setting up with their dedicated boosting move, ultimately making them harder to switch into.
* Checks to the tier's Magic Bounce user's users in Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, (RC) as well as Fairy-type answers are crucial teammates for Greninja, as Magic Bounce completely removes Greninja's ability to set entry hazards.
* Offensive Stealth Rock Primal Groudon sets are almost mandatory on teams with Greninja, as Stealth Rock is still able to punish all Ground-immune foes that take no damage from Spikes such as Yveltal, Ho-Oh, (AC) and Lugia, and providing additional damage to grounded foes. Furthermore, (AC) it is able to provide teams with a much-(AH)needed answer to Xerneas and is able to comfortably counterlead against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.
* Fast Taunt users such as Mega Gengar and Yveltal are great partners for Greninja, (AC) as they're able to prevent foes from removing entry hazards after Greninja has been KOed, (AC) as well as acting as great anti-offense measures, (AC) as they prevent setup sweepers from setting up. Mega Gengar is especially noteworthy here, as its super fast Taunt is useful for preventing support Arceus formes from defogging using Defog, (AC) as well as punishing Choice Locked Choice-locked Defoggers such as Xerneas, (AC) as they risk getting trapped and KOed thanks to Mega Gengar's Shadow Tag.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

* Greninja has a very specific niche in the Ubers tier, so despite its impressive movepool, it isn't really able to utilize the majority of these.
* Water Shuriken or Shadow Sneak could be potentially useful to improve the matchup against Deoxys-S by preventing it from getting up multiple entry hazards; (SC) however, (AC) Greninja would much prefer to either run either Ice Beam or Substitute in this slot due to either the coverage or utility options these moves offer.
* Hydro Pump can be used as a fourth move in order to pressure Mega Diancie; (SC) however, (AC) this would be sacrificing the coverage options that Ice Beam could offer or the security of Substitute. (AP)
* A suicide lead set with Protean containing Spikes + Toxic Spikes + Taunt + Shadow Sneak with the ability Protean can be run, utilizing Greninjas Greninja's ability to set dual entry hazards, (RC) and spinblock with Shadow Sneak; (SC) however, (AC) this takes away Greninjas Greninja's niche with Battle Bond and tends to be outclassed by other entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Magic Bounce**: Both of the viable Magic Bounce users in - (Remove the hyphen) Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye aren't too phased by any of Greninjas Greninja's attacks and can bounce back Spikes and Taunts thanks to their ability. Mega Diancie is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash with Moonblast, while Mega Sableye is able to avoid the 2HKO and stall it out with Toxic + Recover. It does, (AC) however, (AC) have to be cautious of being flinched with Dark Pulse.

**Smeargle**: Smeargle can be a real hassle against for Greninja, as it is able to bounce back its entry hazards, (AC) or Taunt it with Magic Coat, and paralyze it with Nuzzle; (SC) and it also causes a nuisance to the type of teams Greninja thrives on by slowing down the whole grounded team with Sticky Web.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers are able to potentially completely prevent or limit Greninja from being able to set Spikes, (AC) as it they can force Greninja to Taunt them. (What is this even saying??) Setup sweepers with priority attacks such as Arceus-Normal and Mega Lucario are able to potentially completely deter Greninja from setting entry hazards, (AC) as Arceus-Normal is able to 2HKO Greninja with Extreme Speed and Mega Lucario is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash and then pick it off with Bullet Punch.

**Faster Offensive Threats**: Ultra Necrozma, Choice Scarf Yveltal, (AC) and Choice Scarf Xerneas all have enough natural bulk to be able to live survive a single hit from Greninja and can 2HKO it or bring Greninja it down to its Focus Sash with any of its their attacks. (RP) (AC), limiting Greninja to only being able to set up one entry hazard at most.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Stoward, 420389]]
- Quality checked by: [[nayrz,212134 ], [cynara,224455], [minority,222996]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

ace of wands
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator
C&C & TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 2/2
[OVERVIEW]

* Access to Spikes (RC) and Taunt (RC) and a Speed tier that allow allows it to outspeed Arceus formes provides provide Greninja with a nice niche as a dedicated lead in the Ubers tier.
* Greninja's Water / Dark typing allows it to also be a great counterlead anti-lead against other common dedicated leads such as Cloyster and Deoxys-S, as it naturally resists Cloyster's attacks, outspeeds it, and can use Taunt against it, and it is able to 2HKO and force predictions against Deoxys-S. Furthermore, unlike Cloyster, Necrozma-DM is unable to lead against it.
* Greninja does, however, struggle to really dish out any damage prior to transforming activating Battle Bond, which can make it difficult to effectively provide offensive pressure, as it needs to claim a KO in order to obtain its Battle Bond forme do so. This low damage output results in it being completely shut down by the tier's two Magic Bounce users in Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye, which are able to bounce back entry hazards and use Taunt against it while failing to be 2HKOed by any of Greninja's its attacks.
* Its subpar bulk also means that it can often struggle to get many entry hazards up against setup sweepers, as it is forced to use Taunt on them to prevent them from setting up (RC) but it is also very often brought down to its Focus Sash even without boosts. If these setup sweepers have access to a priority move, then Greninja can potentially completely fail to get up any entry hazards.

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Dark Pulse
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
item: Focus Sash
ability: Battle Bond
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Spikes is a really effective means of punishing grounded Pokemon, as it deals up to 25% of the maximum HP in damage to any Pokemon that switches in. This allows it your team to more effectively pressure Steel-type threats such as Necrozma-DM and Magearna, which otherwise take minimal damage from Stealth Rock.
* Taunt stops setup, entry hazards being put up, status spreading, and entry hazard removal, thus being crucial in order for Greninja to effectively perform its role as a suicide lead.
* Dark Pulse prevents Greninja from being completely passive, preventing it from becoming setup fodder for offensive Necrozma-DM at Team Preview. It also allows Greninja to utilize its ability in Battle Bond, allowing it to become a more offensive threat, most notably outspeeding Mega Gengar and Ultra Necrozma and being able to OHKO them both, (AC) and as well as 2HKOing Trick Room Necrozma-DM.
* Ice Beam allows Greninja to pressure Mega Salamence and Zygarde better, as it is able to OHKO Salamence even without Battle Bond, (comma) in it's Ash-Greninja forme whereas after transformation, it's able to outspeed +1 offensive Zygarde-C at +1 and OHKO it. It also gives it a chance of 2KHOing 2HKOing Mega Diancie, which otherwise would be able to prevent Greninja from setting up entry hazards, (AC) and is immune to Taunt thanks to Magic Bounce, and is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash with Moonblast.
* Substitute is primarily used to stop Smeargle from paralyzing it Greninja with Nuzzle, as Taunt doesn't prevent Smeargle from using this move. Once Greninja is behind a Substitute, this puts it in a situation of mind games, rather than Greninja being at a disadvantage. (move before Ice Beam p sure?)

Set Details
========

* This is a classic offensive set with maximum Special Attack investment for the highest possible damage output and maximum Speed investment so Greninja moves first. A Timid nature is required in order for Greninja to outspeed Arceus formes, which is crucial to prevent it them from using Defog.

Usage Tips
========

* Greninja's main focus should be to set Spikes and prevent the opposing team from either setting up in front of it, removing these Spikes or setting their own entry hazards by clicking Taunt.
* Against setup sweepers, such as Rock Polish Primal Groudon and E-Killer Extreme Killer Arceus, Greninja should prioritise prioritize clicking Taunt, as the offensive builds that Greninja fits best on tends tend to struggle to have the tools to deal with these threats.
* If it's not able to obtain activate Battle Bond, Greninja should be used to chip away at the foe with either Dark Pulse or Ice Beam, providing its teammates with an easier time of setting up to sweep. Due to its relatively low bulk and damage output prior to obtaining activating Battle Bond, if entry hazards are on your side of the field or if its Focus Sash has been broken, Greninja is best used as a sacrifice fodder to provide you with an opportunity to bring in a teammate without taking any extra damage.
* If Greninja is able to obtain its activate Battle Bond forme, it can be preserved, as it can become a potential revenge killer for weakened foes, as it's only naturally outsped by Deoxys-A, Pheromosa, and Mega Mewtwo Y, and it's able to outspeed a +1 Zygarde.

Team Options
========

* As Greninja's primary role is to provide offensive pressure by setting Spikes and it is only really used as a dedicated lead, its teammates need to also be offensive Pokemon to compensate for its general lack of offensive pressure and to ensure that Greninja's entry hazards stay on the battlefield after it has been KOed.
* Strong wallbreakers such as Xerneas, Necrozma-DM or Ultra Necrozma, and Mega Salamence are all incredible partners for Greninja, as the addition of Spikes on the battlefield makes it harder for opposing Pokemon to switch into them. Futhermore, all of these Pokemon are able to punish any attempts to remove entry hazards by setting up with their dedicated boosting move, ultimately making them harder to switch into.
* Checks to the tier's Magic Bounce users in Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie as well as Fairy-type answers are crucial teammates for Greninja, as Magic Bounce completely removes Greninja's ability to set entry hazards.
* Offensive Stealth Rock Primal Groudon sets are almost mandatory on teams with Greninja, as Stealth Rock is still able to punish all Ground-immune foes that take no damage from Spikes such as Yveltal, Ho-Oh, and Lugia, providing additional damage to grounded foes. Furthermore, it is able to provide teams with a much-needed answer to Xerneas and is able to comfortably counterlead anti-lead against Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.
* Fast Taunt users such as Mega Gengar and Yveltal are great partners for Greninja, as they're able to prevent foes from removing entry hazards after Greninja has been KOed, as well as acting as great anti-offense measures, as they prevent setup sweepers from setting up. Mega Gengar is especially noteworthy here, as its super fast Taunt is useful for preventing support Arceus formes from using Defog, as well as punishing Choice-locked Defoggers such as Xerneas, as they risk getting trapped and KOed thanks to Mega Gengar's Shadow Tag.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Greninja has a very specific niche in the Ubers tier, so despite its impressive movepool, it isn't really able to utilize the majority of these.
* Water Shuriken or Shadow Sneak could be potentially useful to improve the matchup against Deoxys-S by preventing it from getting up multiple entry hazards; however, Greninja would much prefer to run either Ice Beam or Substitute in this slot due to the coverage or utility options these moves offer.
* Hydro Pump can be used as a fourth move in order to pressure Mega Diancie; however, this would be sacrificing the coverage options that Ice Beam could offer or the security of Substitute.
* A suicide lead set with Protean containing Spikes + Toxic Spikes + Taunt + Shadow Sneak with the ability Protean can be run, utilizing Greninja's ability to set dual entry hazards and spinblock with Shadow Sneak; however, this takes away Greninja's niche with Battle Bond and tends to be outclassed by other entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-S.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Magic Bounce**: Both of the viable Magic Bounce users in Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye aren't too phased fazed by any of Greninja's attacks and can bounce back Spikes and Taunt thanks to their ability. Mega Diancie is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash with Moonblast, while Mega Sableye is able to avoid the 2HKO and stall it out with Toxic + Recover. It does, however, have to be cautious of being flinched with Dark Pulse flinches.

**Smeargle**: Smeargle can be a real hassle for Greninja, as it is able to bounce back its entry hazards, Taunt it with Magic Coat, and paralyze it with Nuzzle; it also causes a nuisance to the type of teams Greninja thrives on by slowing down the whole grounded team with Sticky Web.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers are able to potentially completely prevent or limit the amount of entry hazards that Greninja is able to set, (AC) as it is forced to Taunt them to prevent them from sweeping, rather than focusing on setting entry hazards. Setup sweepers with priority attacks such as Arceus-Normal and Mega Lucario are able to potentially completely deter Greninja from setting entry hazards, as Arceus-Normal is able to 2HKO Greninja with Extreme Speed and Mega Lucario is able to bring Greninja down to its Focus Sash and then pick it off with Bullet Punch.

**Faster Offensive Threats**: Ultra Necrozma, Choice Scarf Yveltal, and Choice Scarf Xerneas all have enough natural bulk to be able to survive a single hit from Greninja and can 2HKO it or bring it down to its Focus Sash with any of their attacks, (AC) limiting Greninja to only being able to set up one entry hazard at most.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Stoward, 420389]]
- Quality checked by: [[nayrz,212134 ], [cynara,224455], [minority,222996]]
- Grammar checked by: [[deetah,297659 ], [, ]]
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top