Quality Control Groudon-Primal [QC 1/2]

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
[OVERVIEW]

  • Groudon is one of the two Primal legendaries, and its weather has the capability to completely nullify water-types damage output
  • Groudon's added Fire-typing in its Primal form gives it several new resistances, allowing it to take on pokemon like Xerneas more easily
  • Groudon's inflated stats allow it to utilize a variety of sets succesfully, both as a physical and a mixed attacker
  • Groudon maintains its same speed stat after Primal Reversion, so it can still function well both under tailwind and trick room (sometimes with both on the same team)
  • While Groudon does gain a lot of strengths in its Primal form, it does gain a couple of new weaknesses. Notably, Groudon gets opened up by strong Ground attackers, like Landorus-T
  • Groudon also gains a quad weakness to Water. Rayquaza can be used to remove the effects of Groudon's weather, which means it will likely be OHKO'd even if it technically has control of the weather
[SET]
name: Bulky Physical Attacker
move 1: Precipice Blades
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Swords Dance / Substitute
move 4: Protect
item: Red Orb
ability: Desolate Land
nature: Adamant/Brave
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 4 Def / 156 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
  • Precipice Blades is the STAB move of choice on this set, aiming to take advantage of Groudon's gargantuan physical Attack stat
  • Fire Punch is provided for coverage. It allows you to not be completely walled by pokemon like Yveltal, and it also threatens Grass-types like Amoonguss
  • Swords Dance can take advantage of opponents' passive play if they are aiming to stall out something like Tailwind or Trick Room. Groudon is also very bulky, so it is not difficult to find a turn to set up normally.
  • Substitute, similar to Swords Dance, also takes advantage of opponent's passive play. Substitute can create tricky situations for pokemon like Kyogre that were hoping to force Groudon out right away. Skill Swap also passes through Substitute, so Groudon doesn't have to worry about blocking its teammate from resetting weather.
  • Protect is again, a great way to re-position your teammate while keeping Groudon safe, which is crucial when fighting a weather war against opposing Kyogre or Rayquaza teams. It also allows Groudon to scout for opposing Z-moves that would otherwise threaten to OHKO.
Set Details
  • The given EVs allow you to always survive opposing Primal Groudon's Earth Power, as well as always be 3hko'd by -1 neutral-natured Groudon's Precipice Blades, and 2hko'd by +2 Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent
  • 12 Speed allows you to outspeed base 100 pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan after an Icy Wind, as well as outspeeding every relevant unboosted VGC pokemon under Tailwind.
  • This also leaves Groudon at a middling speed so support pokemon like Tapu Fini have the choice to be EV trained to outspeed and get a support move off before Groudon attacks, or to conversely run min speed and move first under Trick Room.
  • The remaining EVs are all dumped into attack in order to boost Groudon's damage output
Damage Calcs

Offensive

  • 84+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 132-156 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 84+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 102-121 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 84+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 236 HP / 4 Def Incineroar: 212-252 (106 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • -1 84+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 236 HP / 4 Def Incineroar: 140-168 (70 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 84+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas in Harsh Sun: 129-153 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 84+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Yveltal in Harsh Sun: 129-153 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Defensive
  • 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Primal Groudon: 174-206 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • -1 252 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 84-102 (40.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • +2 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 174-205 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 156-188 (75.3 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Neuroforce Ultra Necrozma Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Primal Groudon: 142-170 (68.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 172-204 (83 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Primal Groudon: 100-118 (48.3 - 57%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
[SET]
name: Speedy Don-Zalez
move 1: Precipice Blades
move 2: Eruption
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Protect
item: Red Orb
ability: Desolate Land
nature: Timid/Modest
Evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
  • Despite the hindering nature, Precipice Blades is still commonly found on mixed sets. Base 180 Attack allows Groudon to still threaten reasonable chip damage with this move, while also threatening to heavier damage on pokemon like Tapu Koko or Incineroar.
  • Eruption provides great coverage, hitting flying-types like Landorus-T and Yveltal who would otherwise completely wall Groudon. Groudon's boosted Special Attack and Desolate Land ability further boost this move's damage output.
  • Earth Power is a single-target move, so it allows you to bypass Wide Guard. It also hits pokemon like Stakataka, and opposing Primal Groudon harder than Precipice Blades would, because of their gargantuan base Defense stats. (It also isn't weakened by Intimidate!)
  • Protect rounds out the set, allowing you to scout out potential Z-moves from pokemon like Ultra Necrozma or Landorus-T, as well as re-position your partner which can be crucial in a format dominated by weather pokemon.
Set Details
  • Max speed is crucial to this set in particular, as Groudon wants to be at full health when using Eruption. Max speed allows you to outpace as many foes as possible, allowing you to fire off Eruptions before the opponent gets a chance to damage you in certain scenarios.
  • Max speed also allows you to outpace potentially slower Primals that opt for a Trick Room mode, meaning that you can potentially KO them before they have a chance to do anything. This is especially nice against opposing Primal Groudon, as Earth Power threatens to OHKO a lot of variants.
  • Max special attack is opted for here as well, allowing you to chunk opponents for significant amounts of damage. It gives you the best chance to be able to KO opposing Primal Groudon and Shuca Berry Stakataka with Earth Power.
Damage Calcs

Offensive

  • -1 0- Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 236 HP / 4 Def Incineroar: 110-132 (55 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 0- Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 186-218 (136.7 - 160.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 180-212 (132.3 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 186-222 (105.6 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 244 HP / 188+ SpD Amoonguss in Harsh Sun: 284-336 (129 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 SpA Primal Groudon Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in Harsh Sun: 222-262 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Defensive

  • +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 118-139 (67 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 144-170 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 144-171 (81.8 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 72-85 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Usage Tips

Against Kyogre teams, much of Groudon's gameplan should be to start in the back, and then cycle in and out, resetting the weather while slowly chipping away at the opposing team. Because Groudon's biggest STAB move (Precipice Blades) doesn't get nullified by Kyogre, Groudon is at an advantage and doesn't need to worry about getting its damage in immediately. If the team has options to deal with a cycling Groudon (i.e. Shadow Tag or Air Lock), air on the conservative side until you've dealt with these options. Against teams where Groudon isn't competing for the weather, it doesn't necessarily have to cycle in as often, but it still functions best coming out of the back. This way it can avoid Intimidates from common leads like Salamence or Incineroar. Groudon will function best against these teams after its choice of speed control has been set up, when it will be more free to fire off large chunks of damage without worrying about opposing Kyogre swapping in.

Team Options

Restricted
  • Xerneas has been a staple teammate of Groudon since its introduction in XY. Groudon checks or hard counters the Steel-types and Grass-types that give Xerneas problems, such as Amoonguss or Stakataka. In turn, Xerneas threatens many of the Dragon/Flying pokemon that would otherwise threaten Groudon, like Rayquaza, or Salamence.
  • Somewhat ironically, Kyogre has seen success when paired with Groudon in the past. The two different primals gives you the option to pick the weather that's the most threatening depending on the team composition of your opponent. Groudon also checks the Electric and Grass-type pokemon that would otherwise threaten Kyogre, while Kyogre does the same to opposing Ground-types.
  • Yveltal makes for a solid partner for Groudon as well. It can swap into opposing Groudons in the mirror match, as well as the high-powered Ultra Necrozma, and the AV set in particular has the necessary bulk to take on pokemon like Kyogre. Groudon also checks several of the pokemon that would normally be threatening to Yveltal, such as Xerneas or Tapu Koko.
  • Lunala has a unique roll on Groudon teams. It can function as either a Tailwind or a Trick Room setter, and it can use Wide Guard to potentially keep Groudon safe from attacks like Origin Pulse or Precipice Blades. Lunala's signature Z-move also threatens heavy damage on opposing Primal Groudon, as well as Ultra Necrozma, which could otherwise prove to be a nuisance.
Non-Restricted
  • Tapu Fini has a wide array of support options that Groudon can benefit from, such as Swagger, Gravity, and Heal Pulse. Tapu Fini can also be EV trained to be faster or slower than Groudon, depending on if your team prefers a Tailwind or Trick Room mode.
  • Incineroar fits on most teams, but it functions especially well with Primal Groudon. The harsh sunlight boosts Incineroar's damage output, and Incineroar's slow u-turn allows it to cycle in Groudon's weather for free. Incineroar can also potentially carry its signature Z-move, Malicious Moonsault to take quick KOs on levitating pokemon like Bronzong or Cresselia.
  • Cresselia and Bronzong are two strong support options for Groudon teams. Not only do they have the capability to set Tick Room, but they can also utilize Skill Swap to either reset Groudon's Harsh Sunlight, or give Groudon an immunity to opposing Ground attacks with Levitate
  • Tapu Koko can use Volt Switch to help cycle Groudon's weather in and out, and if using the Electric Z-crystal, it can threaten to OHKO Primal Kyogre and Yveltal.
  • Stakataka makes for an interesting choice in partners. It can set Trick Room, and it also has the potential to abuse Skill Swap to reset Groudon's weather. Stakataka also can also potentially carry Wide Guard, as well as Rock-type attacks to threaten opposing Yveltal.

  • Mega Salamence can provide Tailwind support to Groudon, and its typing also allows it to switch into opposing Groudon rather easily. Salamence also carries Intimidate in its base form, so it can weaken opposing Precipice Blades or Earthquake on an initial switch in.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
  • Roar is a unique option for Groudon. It allows you to phase out Xerneas or Rayquaza after they've set up, and it also gives you an alternative option to temporarily prevent Trick Room from going up.
  • Substitute is a cool filler option for Groudon if you can find the space for it. It will protect your Groudon from status moves like Spore, and it can also set up awkward situations for pokemon like Kyogre that were otherwise expecting to immediately force it to swap out.
  • Hidden Power Ice can work on the more specially-based sets, and it's Groudon's best way of dealing damage to Mega Salamence, Mega Rayquaza, and Landorus-T.
  • A couple of Rock-type attacks have been used as filler options in the past, such as Rock Slide or Stone Edge. However, with Ho-oh falling off in popularity, this isn't as strong as it used to be. Rock Tomb, though, still provides an alternative means of speed control, which can be nifty.
  • Stomping Tantrum is another interesting option Groudon has. Precipice Blades is better in most cases, but Stomping Tantrum does give you a physical Ground move that bypasses Wide Guard, and it also has 100% accuracy.
  • On both of the sets above, Groudon has the potential to run minus-speed natures with minimum speed, to function properly on hard Trick Room teams. However, given that most teams in this format are equipped to either reset or stall out Trick Room, Groudon usually appreciates neutral natures so it has the option to operate both inside and outside of Trick Room.
  • The mixed set also has the potential to run extra bulk, just like the Physical set does. However, it will need to rely on Speed Control more heavily, so it can fire off max-HP Eruptions more consistently. This does give you the added benefit of running a Trick Room mode alongside this Groudon, however.
Checks and Counters
  • Primal Kyogre threatens to take away Groudon's weather, and OHKO's Groudon with any of its water-type attacks. Groudon can be cycled out and then back in to get rid of Kyogre's Water-type attacks, but Kyogre teams usually carry several tricks up their sleeve to combat this:
    • Air Lock from Rayquaza gets rid of the effects of Groudon's weather, allowing Kyogre to attack it freely
    • Mega Gengar's Shadow Tag can prevent Groudon from cycling, which almost always leads to a lost weather war
    • teching Hidden Power Water onto random pokemon is not unheard of either, allowing Kyogre to swap in while its teammate takes a surprise KO
  • Pokemon that wield the Ground Z-crystal can threaten to OHKO Groudon. Landorus-T gets an extra special mention, because it has Intimidate to weaken Groudon's physical Attack, and it's also part flying, making it immune to Precipice Blades.
  • Intimidate in general can be used to significantly weaken Groudon's ability to chunk teams down with Precipice Blades. Landorus-T and Salamence excel in this category, as they are also immune to Precipice Blades and threaten to deal significant damage in return.
  • Mega Rayquaza, even without Kyogre is still a threat to any Groudon-based teams. It's immune to Precipice Blades, and can take advantage of this by setting up Swords Dance, allowing it to sweep through teams. Rayquaza can also potentially carry Earth Power and Waterfall to threaten a KO immediately.
  • Ultra Necrozma has an interesting role. It can't really switch into Groudon as it doesn't resist either of its STAB attacks before Ultra Bursting, but afterwards, its signature Z-move has a very favorable chance to KO, even if Groudon is heavily invested in HP and Special Defense. Ultra Necrozma can also carry Earth Power, giving it a chance to threaten Groudon even before having the chance to use its Z-move.
  • Wide Guard is a niche tech option, but it can prove fairly useful. It can protect your partner from both Precipice Blades and Eruption, which makes Groudon's life a bit more difficult in practice.
[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[TPO3 ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
Last edited:
Do you think Substitute would be worth a mention on the physical set? SD is the better choice for most teams, but Substitute is another way of capitalizing on passive play that also gives it protection from attacks (Primal Kyogre switch-in for example). Works pretty well with TR + Skill Swap to truly effectively neutralize something like a Kyogre switch (Skill Swap connects through Substitute), especially if the TR + Skill Swap Pokemon is Stakataka, which helps to reduce the downside of not having Swords Dance.
 

Netherious

formerly Shivershaft
is a Pre-Contributor
I don't have much because I did send you some suggestions offsite, but my last change would be reorganize the non restricted options to better reflect the relevant support. I think Tapu Fini and Incineroar should be it's first lines, and then everything else is fine.

Q/C 1/2
 

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