Ground Based Mixed Team (with some quite unique EVs)

[Rosen]

Hello everyone, I am not new to smogon but I have just now created an account, and I thought I'd share my team with you all to get some input.

Now, I have a rather unique team. Not unique in the pokemon I'm using, but rather the EVs and moves I've dispersed among them. As you look through my team I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

And here they are:

Cresselia
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
Moveset:

Moonlight
Toxic
Ice Beam
Energy Ball

This Cresselia has standard EVs, nothing special there and no reason to be, they work beautifully. One thing you may notice about the movepool that is rather unorthodox is the lack of Psychic and the presence of Energy Ball. Now why would I want to sacrifice a fairly powerful STAB move for a weaker, non-STAB one? Well, Cresselia walls almost everything except Gengar, Tyranitar, Heracross, and Shadow Ball Alakazam, plus a few others. The reason for grass ball is not to help eliminate these threats, but to remove others in regard to my team. Energy Ball works wonderfully for dealing with Gastrodon and Swampert, but the biggest advantage is the element of surprise due to its rarity. I have gotten the upper hand on opponents many times due to them sending out pokemon that would seemingly not be threatened, such as Starmie, Blastoise, on occasion Tyranitar, Omaster, and a few others.

Gliscor
63 HP/63 Atk/252 SpD/126 Spe
Nature: Careful
Item: Toxic Orb
Moveset:

Protect
U-Turn
Poison Jab
Earthquake

Gliscor is likely to be my favorite on the team due to it being the only one cabable of demolishing Heracross, one of the biggest threats against the rest of my team. One thing that immediately stands out about my Gliscor is the utter lack of defense IVs. Most people use Gliscor as a physical wall/stall pokemon, but that is not the function here. Since Gliscor does have a naturally high defense, I decided I should cover his weak area, special defense. He won't go around surviving any ice beams anytime soon, but he can survive several non-supereffective non-stab (and a few stabs as well) special moves it otherwise wouldn't, which has saved my ass on occasion. Gliscor also fits very well into my team. My team is very earthquake-heavy offensively, and Gliscor's flying type plus Gengar and Cresselia's Levitate is a blessing in double battles.

Garchomp
36 HP/116 Atk/4 Def/196 SpDef/156 Speed
Nature: Jolly
Item: Haban Berry
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Substitute
-Protect

Whilst this EV spread is fairly unique among Garchomps, it is not one of a kind; a few of you might recognize it as those of the Garchomp of Ray Rizzo. I found this Garchomp to work wonderfully. The moveset is fairly straightforward, nothing special in this area; I prefer dragon claw to outrage due to an unfortunate time I was locked into using outrage against a team with an Abomasnow and needless to say that did not go well. Without that hindrance, Garchomp can last a great deal longer in battles, and the haban berry plus special defense EVs allow it to survive an unboosted Draco Meteor from Hydreigon, and get a OHKO in return.

Metagross
164 HP/110 Atk/18 Def/216 SpD
Nature: Adamant
Item: Lum Berry
Moveset:

Protect
Meteor Mash
Zen Headbutt
Earthquake

Metagross is my primary Weavile and Mamoswine counter, oddly. And this odd Metagross does sport some unique EVs indeed. His adamant nature allows me to not dispense as many EVs into attack and have more for other areas, and due to his naturally high defense I added minimal there as well. I have dumped in most EVs to Special Defense, greatly reducing damage from moves such as Shadow Ball and allowing Metagross to survive a Heat Wave from Heatran before demolishing it with earthquake. 18 EVs in defense is basically just there for insurance. Lum Berry deal with Breloom if it decides to use Spore, or greatly benefit me whenever someone chooses to use Swagger. Overall, I feel like I have a more balanced Metagross than the traditional set, and it has worked well so far.

Gastrodon
252 HP/104 Def/152 SDef
Nature: Calm
Item: Rocky Helmet
Moveset:

Protect
Recover
Scald
Icebeam

This is a slight variation on Tabloo's Gastrodon. Once upon a time I got brutally raped by rain teams. Then Gastrodon came along. Gastrodon is the perfect rain team counter in my opinion, hence why he is here. Plus I just love Gastrodon, I mean look at him.

Gengar
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Nature: Timid
Item: Life Orb
Moveset:

Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Pain Split
Substitute

This is your standard SubSplit Gengar. Really nothing special here, he just fits well on my team, especially with so many earthquake users.


Alright, well there you have it. Despite Gastrodon, my team is still a little not-so-solid against some rain teams, as well as hail teams (absolutely demolishes sand teams though.) I know my team is nowhere near perfect and I have likely missed some threats. Please let me know what you think, and what I can improve on. Cheers!

 

[Anty]

Hi, welcome to smogon.

First of all cresselia is out classed in the ou tier as its specail attack is very low, i recomend chaging it to calm mind latias who does her job better. Calm mind, dragon pulse, roost, hp fire/substitute.
I know you running weird ev's, but gliscors dont add up correctly, they should all be a multiple of 4, ill let you change them. Also, run toxic over poison jab and maybe, if you want, taunt over u-turn.
Garchomp should be running max speed, max attack with swords dance over protect.
Metagross doesnt have much of a niche in ou, replace him with defensive jirachi. Thunderwave, iron head, stealth rocks, wish/u-turn.
Use leftovers on gastrodon and toxic over protect oreven betterm replace him with scarf keldeo, because you lack a revenge killer.

Protect isnt a very good move in ou, unless this is doubles, but its in the ou part,
good luck.

 

[KS2]

I don't think that the metagross is really a counter to mamoswine because:

110+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 360-426 (99.7 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 164 HP / 18 Def Metagross: 369-437 (107.8 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine can OHKO the metagross and outspeed it.

----
For weavile:

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 164 HP / 18 Def Metagross: 221-265 (64.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
110+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 426-504 (151 - 178.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It can counter weavile as long as you don't switch metagross in to a night slash.

 

[Rosen]

Hi, welcome to smogon.

First of all cresselia is out classed in the ou tier as its specail attack is very low, i recomend chaging it to calm mind latias who does her job better. Calm mind, dragon pulse, roost, hp fire/substitute.
I know you running weird ev's, but gliscors dont add up correctly, they should all be a multiple of 4, ill let you change them. Also, run toxic over poison jab and maybe, if you want, taunt over u-turn.
Garchomp should be running max speed, max attack with swords dance over protect.
Metagross doesnt have much of a niche in ou, replace him with defensive jirachi. Thunderwave, iron head, stealth rocks, wish/u-turn.
Use leftovers on gastrodon and toxic over protect oreven betterm replace him with scarf keldeo, because you lack a revenge killer.

Protect isnt a very good move in ou, unless this is doubles, but its in the ou part,
good luck.

First and foremost, I probably should have specified I only do double battles (I just enjoy them greatly over singles), thus the extensive use of protect. But yes, there have been times I have considered putting more EVs into her Special Attack and less in defense, but another dragon type on my team would make my team too Ice-weak for my preference (Weavile would be much more of a problem). And you are right about my Gliscor, that is actually the one I didn't have the EVs for and didn't remember what I originally put, it was just in that area, but they were likely to be more around 64 HP/64 Atk/252 SpD/128 Spe. Also correction on metagross, should be 108 atk EVs and 20 def EVs. I haven't put Toxic on Gliscor since Cresselia has Toxic and in doubles I often pair the two together, plus I need a strong-ish poison type attack to help take care of Heracross. I have thought of using taunt, however, not on Gliscor, I would like to stick with his set. Any suggestions there?

I don't think that the metagross is really a counter to mamoswine because:

110+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 360-426 (99.7 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 164 HP / 18 Def Metagross: 369-437 (107.8 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine can OHKO the metagross and outspeed it.

----
For weavile:

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 164 HP / 18 Def Metagross: 221-265 (64.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
110+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 426-504 (151 - 178.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It can counter weavile as long as you don't switch metagross in to a night slash.

You're right, I originally put so many special EVs to help deal with Heat Wave Heatran, but Mamoswine and Weavile are much more common in Doubles it would appear. Would you recommend a more Defensive/Offensive Metagross for my team?

 

[Anty]

First and foremost, I probably should have specified I only do double battles (I just enjoy them greatly over singles), thus the extensive use of protect. But yes, there have been times I have considered putting more EVs into her Special Attack and less in defense, but another dragon type on my team would make my team too Ice-weak for my preference (Weavile would be much more of a problem). And you are right about my Gliscor, that is actually the one I didn't have the EVs for and didn't remember what I originally put, it was just in that area, but they were likely to be more around 64 HP/64 Atk/252 SpD/128 Spe. Also correction on metagross, should be 108 atk EVs and 20 def EVs. I haven't put Toxic on Gliscor since Cresselia has Toxic and in doubles I often pair the two together, plus I need a strong-ish poison type attack to help take care of Heracross. I have thought of using taunt, however, not on Gliscor, I would like to stick with his set. Any suggestions there?

Oh sorry, i didnt know this was doubles, i thought it was standard ou. In that case protect is helpful. Also, i dont think cress's moveset is too helpful, if you give it psychic over energy ball, it can help with herre:
4 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 162-192 (53.82 - 63.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 242-288 (54.62 - 65.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Once again, i doubt my ealier advice is helpful and i havent played too much doubles, sorry

 

[Rosen]

Oh sorry, i didnt know this was doubles, i thought it was standard ou. In that case protect is helpful. Also, i dont think cress's moveset is too helpful, if you give it psychic over energy ball, it can help with herre:
4 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 162-192 (53.82 - 63.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 242-288 (54.62 - 65.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Once again, i doubt my ealier advice is helpful and i havent played too much doubles, sorry

No worries. I no longer have psychic due to it being useless against Tyranitar and next to useless against Jellicent, I just found it to not be as helpful against many common OU teams. Also, Heracross outspeeds Cresselia, so she'd be long gone before I could do any real damage, hence Gliscor's Poison Jab.

 

[KS2]

hmm for the EVs on metagross
also, heatran can't learn heat wave.
If you give metagross 244+ Speed then it can outspeed 252 speed mamoswine and 252 speed heatran

If you give metagross Life Orb and enough attack then it can OHKO both of them:

208 Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 463-546 (109.1 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO208 Atk Life Orb Metagross Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 406-478 (125.3 - 147.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
--
Meanwhile, Heatran and Mamoswine can only do this:

252 SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 254-300 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 252-299 (80 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

--

I don't really know what to do with the rest of the EVs. I think that you should just pump them into HP for now.

Extra random calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 254-302 (80.6 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 270-318 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO :(

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 262-310 (83.1 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

208 Atk Life Orb Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 367-434 (113.2 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


208 Atk Life Orb Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Amphabulous: 205-242 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Amphabulous Thunderbolt vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 211-249 (66.9 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Martin]

hmm for the EVs on metagross
also, heatran can't learn heat wave.
If you give metagross 244+ Speed then it can outspeed 252 speed mamoswine and 252 speed heatran

If you give metagross Expert Belt and enough attack then it can 2HKO with bullet punch or OHKO both of them as well:

208 Atk Expert Belt Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 425-499 (100.2 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

208 Atk Expert Belt Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 374-442 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
208 Atk Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 15-18 (3.8 - 4.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

--
Meanwhile, Heatran and Mamoswine can only do this:

252 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 216-254 (68.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 252-299 (80 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

--

I don't really know what to do with the rest of the EVs. I think that you should just pump them into HP for now.
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 254-302 (80.6 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 270-318 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO :(
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 262-310 (83.1 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heatran does learn Heat Wave

 

[KS2]

Heatran does learn Heat Wave

xP Showdown said it didn't, but I fixed it by giving metagross life orb instead of expert belt

but i dunno, metagross dies to chandelure and chandy is pretty common in doubles.
yeah you might want to use another pokemon instead of metagross, heatran sounds good.

 

[Rosen]

xP Showdown said it didn't, but I fixed it by giving metagross life orb instead of expert belt

but i dunno, metagross dies to chandelure and chandy is pretty common in doubles.
yeah you might want to use another pokemon instead of metagross, heatran sounds good.

Heatran does seem plausible, could definitely deal with Weavile and could help with Mamoswine as long as I could outspeed it. Since Heatran is 2x weaker to earthquake than Metagross, if Mamoswine moves first Heatran would be long gone before he had a chance to do anything, and with Mamoswine's 80 speed vs Heatran's 77, I'd better pray the opposing Mamoswine is Adamant nature vs Jolly and has less speed IVs, which if I had a Timid Heatran with 252 Speed EV's and more speed IVs, it really shouldn't be a problem. Also my team doesn't have a powerful fire type move and is thus weak to Scizor and Ferrothorn becomes hell to take down. I'll definitely give Heatran a try, but if it doesn't work I'll go back to defensive Metagross.

Update: Now have a Heatran with 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe EVs, moveset being Heatwave, Protect, Roar, and Earth Power. Still keeps with my theme of using Ground type moves as my primary offensive but now special atk instead of physical (less coverage so not as nice there of course) and heat wave mercilessly slaughters every Mamoswine and Weavile I've come across thus far (fingers crossed that I never encounter a faster Mamoswine). Protect still allows me to use Garchomp or Gliscor's earthquake and not kill my own team member, and roar has helped with irritating pokemon such as Jellicent that I can't immediately take out and aren't an imminent threat.

 

[Rosen]

Alright everyone, more updates on team ideas. I've thought of replacing Gengar with Bisharp. This helps remove one of the ghost and bug type weaknesses that have been a slight worry to my team, and replaced it with a physical attacker with powerful STAB sucker punch to clear the screen of ghost types, which have on average quite low defense. This works well for clearing the playing field of Gengar and, more importantly, Jellicent. However, it does make my team weaker to fire-type moves, something never formerly a threat, drastically weaker to fighting which outside of Heatran was also not a threat, and sacrifices levitate, which is bothersome considering the prevalence of Earthquake on my team, but with Protect it shouldn't be a huge problem. However, subsplit Gengar is one of the best uses of a specific pokemon out there, and I'm not certain I want to sacrifice that. I've also considered replacing my beloved Gliscor with Eelektross to help deal with Gyarados and remove one of my drastic ice-type weaknesses, but I'm not so sure on those terms. Please offer your thoughts and opinions! Cheers.