Lower Tiers GSC NU Viability Rankings

[Earthworm]

GSC NU Viability Rankings​

Welcome to the GSC NU VR!

S Rank

01 Weezing
02 Stantler
03 Octillery

A1 Rank

04 Pineco
05 Xatu
06 Primeape
07 Dewgong
08 Fearow

A2 Rank

09 Wigglytuff
10 Porygon
11 Graveler
12 Persian
13 Flareon

B1 Rank

14 Ninetales
15 Dugtrio
16 Kingler

B2 Rank

17 Chinchou
18 Pupitar
19 Magnemite
20 Sudowoodo
21 Magmar
22 Rapidash
23 Hitmonlee
24 Gloom
25 Shuckle
26 Pidgeot

C1 Rank

27 Delibird
28 Dragonair
29 Lickitung
30 Dunsparce
31 Bayleef

C2 Rank

32 Hitmontop
33 Raticate
34 Tentacool

D Rank

35 Exeggcute
36 Ledian
37 Gastly
38 Houndour
39 Sneasel
40 Furret
41 Hitmonchan
42 Seaking
43 Farfetch'd

E1 Rank

44 Azumarill
45 Mantine
46 Tangela
47 Noctowl
48 Ariados
49 Cubone

E2 Rank

50 Corsola
51 Arbok
52 Machoke

E3 Rank

53 Venomoth
54 Poliwhirl
55 Sunflora

Last update: April 13th 2024

March 2023 VR

S Rank
S1 Rank
01 Xatu

S2 Rank
02 Octillery

A Rank:

A1 Rank
03 Weezing
04 Stantler
05 Pineco

A2 Rank
06 Dugtrio
07 Wigglytuff
08 Fearow
09 Ninetales
10 Dewgong
11 Primeape
12 Kingler
13 Chinchou
14 Persian
15 Sudowoodo


A3 Rank
16 Magnemite
17 Gloom
18 Magmar
19 Hitmonlee
20 Porygon


B Rank:

B1 Rank
21 Rapidash
22 Flareon
23 :houndour :Houndour
24 Graveler
25 Dragonair
26 Azumarill

B2 Rank
27 Exeggcute
28 Dunsparce
29 Shuckle
30 Noctowl
31 Farfetch'd
32 Lickitung
33 Pidgeot
34 Gastly

C Rank:

C Rank
35 Arbok
36 Raticate
37 Pupitar


D Rank
38 Cubone
39 Ledian
40 Mantine
41 Tangela
42 Poliwhirl
43 Ariados
44 Seaking

Feb 2021 VR

S Rank
01Xatu

A Rank:

A1 Rank
02Weezing
03Primeape
04Kingler

A2 Rank
05Pineco
06Gloom
07Chinchou
08Dugtrio
09Magnemite
10Rapidash
11Hitmonlee

A3 Rank
12Dewgong
13Ninetales
14Stantler
15Wigglytuff
16Sudowoodo
17Octillery

A4 Rank
18Magmar
19Azumarill
20Flareon
21Lickitung

B Rank:

B1 Rank
22Fearow
23Dunsparce
24Graveler
25:FarfetchFarfetch'd
26Arbok
27Dragonair

B2 Rank
28Porygon
29Shuckle
30Pupitar
31Persian
32Houndour

B3 Rank
33Pidgeot
34Ledian
35Raticate
36Exeggcute

C Rank:

C1 Rank
37Sneasel
38Seaking
39Mantine
40Hitmonchan
41Gastly
42Corsola

C2 Rank
43Cubone
44Slowpoke
45Poliwhirl
46Bayleef
47Machoke

C3 Rank
48Parasect
49Flaaffy
50Magcargo
51Seadra
52Furret
53Hitmontop
54Elekid
55Delibird
56Sunflora

C4 Rank
57Tangela
58Voltorb
59Drowzee
60Ariados
61Venomoth
62Murkrow

D Rank
63Tentacool
64Noctowl
65Staryu
66Snubbull
67Wartortle
68Rhyhorn
69Beedrill
70Omanyte
71Charmeleon
72Abra
73Croconaw

Update log

April 13 2024: Official VR Update conducted by BeeOrSomething with the help of Wanted in 49 States
March 31 2023: Official VR Update conducted by DiannieRatson and Siatam
February 28 2021: Changes primarily suggested by ReeceHughes and backed up by Earthworm, Volk, and Lukee with supporting data from GSC Premier League usage stats.
September 26 2020: Many changes suggested by Earthworm, ReeceHughes, FNH, and freezingpop87.
July 25 2020: Many changes suggested by CentaurMM6, Marowhacked, and Earthworm in the thread.
June 1 2020: The following players contributed to the initial rankings: Sinkyr CentaurMM6 Makkususu Earthworm Diophantine Marowhacked MarceloDK GOAO xJoelituh Stealth Croc Beelzemon 2003. Thank you for your contributions.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

VR looks great overall.I agree with almost all of the entire upper half(except Lickitung but im biased as heck with that one) so I’ll suggest maybe a few of the lower tier stuff



B3-B2(maybe bottom of B1)

Sneasel has shown to be a pretty good metagame choice in recent months,being the best counter to the best Pokémon puts it up just a little higher in my eyes.It also has decent attacking power and is a big annoyance to RestTalkers with Nightmare.Its biggest flaw is running out of Moonlight PP and it is walled by common Pokémon such as Weezing


A3-A2

Pineco is just one of the most important Pokémon in the meta which is why I believe it should move up.It is a mainstay in Stall teams and HO type teams and Explosion is just so much value.The fact that Rapidash is now one of the most common leads as an answer to Lead Pineco is a testament


C4-C1

Porygon is among the most underrated threats in the metagame imo.Its BoltBeam coverage is amazing in this tier seeing as Magnemite is the only resist and it has Good bulk and Thunder Wave letting it cripple Xatu,Magmar and Rapidash to name a few and Recover is extremely valuable


Dugtrio and Fearow B1-A4

I have more or less the same thoughts about these two as they are dangerous late game cleaners.Dugtrio and Fearow also work pretty well together as Dugtrio deals well with Sudowoodo and Graveler and Fearow beats Grasses such as Exeggcute and Tangela well


A4-A3

Wigglytuff is a dangerous unpredictable threat thanks to good bulk,good attacking stats and it’s typing let’s it act as a glue mon.Its Curse,Double Edge,Rest,Thunder Wave set in particular is another reason I believe it should rise


Those are my thoughts for now.
also how do you put the actual animated sprites lol

 

[Marowhacked]

A4 - A3

I agree with CentaurMM6 on this one - it has the deepest movepool in the tier and is one of the bulkiest. Very few threats outside of fighting types can reliably 3HKO it and most of its checks do not appreciate taking paralysis or a double edge (with the exception of rock types). I'm personally a big fan of its curse rest talk body slam set that can act as a para spreader, status absorber, and physical sweeper all in one team slot which takes advantage of Gastly's current lack of popularity.

B3

Maybe this is pushing it a bit but I've found Slowpoke to be a very useful mon that pairs well with normals because of its ability to switch into fighting type. It also has fairly good matchups against most of the Pokemon in ranks A1 through A3. It can support its teammates with Thunder Wave and Reflect, both of which are particularly useful to slow setup attackers. Psychic and surf for STAB moves is unresisted outside of Exeggcute and itself but imo it works better as a set up physical attacker with curse/belly drum and earthquake due to the surprise factor. Unfortunately T Wave and Belly Drum is an illegal combination :(

A3 - A4

Flareon looks great on paper but I find it often doesn't pull it's weight. Baton pass isn't a very strong team archetype atm and it's outclassed as a fire type by Magmar and Rapidash. It can't switch in on physical attacks and often has to take big hits in order to pass growth, which is its main appeal. Being outsped by common water types, such as Dewgong, Chinchou, and Kingler, doesn't help its case either.

 

[Hardboned]

What makes Dunsparce viable?

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

What makes Dunsparce viable?

Dunsparce has good all around stats with good bulk, an ability to spread paralysis with Glare, quite a big move pool with nice options like Pursuit for Xatu and can use Curse quite effectively. It’s also one of the best PP stallers in the tier thanks to Spite.

 

[Earthworm]

B3-B2(maybe bottom of B1)

Sneasel has shown to be a pretty good metagame choice in recent months,being the best counter to the best Pokémon puts it up just a little higher in my eyes.It also has decent attacking power and is a big annoyance to RestTalkers with Nightmare.Its biggest flaw is running out of Moonlight PP and it is walled by common Pokémon such as Weezing

I agree with this. It's quite good on Spikes teams against very bulky teams (e.g. Dewgong + Xatu). It also synergises well with Fighting-types that need to wear down Xatu, although DPeck Xatu does hurt.

A3-A2

Pineco is just one of the most important Pokémon in the meta which is why I believe it should move up.It is a mainstay in Stall teams and HO type teams and Explosion is just so much value.The fact that Rapidash is now one of the most common leads as an answer to Lead Pineco is a testament

Pineco definitely has a significant effect on the metagame but I don't think it is in the same class as the other Pokemon in A2 personally. My opinion could be subject to change on this.

C4-C1

Porygon is among the most underrated threats in the metagame imo.Its BoltBeam coverage is amazing in this tier seeing as Magnemite is the only resist and it has Good bulk and Thunder Wave letting it cripple Xatu,Magmar and Rapidash to name a few and Recover is extremely valuable

In my opinion the C ranks in general could use a fair amount of reshuffling. Porygon is definitely one of the candidates that should be moved up a bit. I would say its utility is lower than Hitmonlee and Seaking but higher than most other Pokemon in the C rank. Despite its access to Recover though, it has to be kept in mind that it competes with Wigglytuff, which has mostly higher stats and less susceptibility to permanent crippling from BSlam/Thunder paralysis. Porygon, however, is better positioned to run a mixed set with recovery because it does not have to deal with the downtime from Rest (and the accompanying susceptibility to huge threats like Kingler and Primeape), and if Wigglytuff has Sleep Talk it only has two moveslots with which to fit attacks and status whereas Porygon has three.

Dugtrio and Fearow B1-A4

I have more or less the same thoughts about these two as they are dangerous late game cleaners.Dugtrio and Fearow also work pretty well together as Dugtrio deals well with Sudowoodo and Graveler and Fearow beats Grasses such as Exeggcute and Tangela well

I can certainly agree that these two are better than Graveler, which is very mediocre in my opinion. Dugtrio I think is increasingly a presence in the metagame since it beats Rapidash lead without forfeiting too much to Pineco lead and both outspeeds and has a chance to OHKO Chinchou from full HP while not being OHKOed by Surf in return. It is also a threat to Xatu. Fearow is a bit less splashable in my opinion but is certainly a threat that shouldn't be underestimated if opportunities can be found to go on the offensive with it. I would be more supportive of a Dugtrio rise to A4 than a Fearow rise.

A4-A3

Wigglytuff is a dangerous unpredictable threat thanks to good bulk,good attacking stats and it’s typing let’s it act as a glue mon.Its Curse,Double Edge,Rest,Thunder Wave set in particular is another reason I believe it should rise

I support this--it's a dangerous Pokemon to deal with and will sweep if not prepared for adequately. It must be kept in mind though that Wigglytuff is one of the easiest Pokemon for Pineco to set up and explode on due to its lack of options for 2HKOing it unboosted and Pineco outspeeding Wigglytuff after a Curse. Wigglytuff could continue to set up on Pineco, but free turns for Pineco is just a bad gameplan in general--Sudowoodo is an effective partner and can sometimes completely wall it (or if not, trade for it).

B3

Maybe this is pushing it a bit but I've found Slowpoke to be a very useful mon that pairs well with normals because of its ability to switch into fighting type. It also has fairly good matchups against most of the Pokemon in ranks A1 through A3. It can support its teammates with Thunder Wave and Reflect, both of which are particularly useful to slow setup attackers. Psychic and surf for STAB moves is unresisted outside of Exeggcute and itself but imo it works better as a set up physical attacker with curse/belly drum and earthquake due to the surprise factor. Unfortunately T Wave and Belly Drum is an illegal combination :(

Right now I think B3 is a bit of a stretch for Slowpoke, so I will definitely need some convincing for this one. It does have a lot of "fairly good" matchups against top Pokemon and the niche of physically bulky Water-type with Thunder Wave is decent, although I think it suffers from 4MSS in that it can't run the support moves it wants and also have RestTalk recovery. It would be nice if it had a slightly better matchup against Xatu as well. It can potentially spread paralysis or force it out, but Xatu's potential to hit it hard with super effective coverage makes it shaky.

A3 - A4

Flareon looks great on paper but I find it often doesn't pull it's weight. Baton pass isn't a very strong team archetype atm and it's outclassed as a fire type by Magmar and Rapidash. It can't switch in on physical attacks and often has to take big hits in order to pass growth, which is its main appeal. Being outsped by common water types, such as Dewgong, Chinchou, and Kingler, doesn't help its case either.

I think Growth passing was definitely overhyped by me and others when the new meta came into effect, but I think Flareon has some niches that are being slept on a bit here. Its 130 base Attack should definitely not be overlooked. It is a fantastic wallbreaker with mixed sets and can also run RestTalk with Body Slam and Fire Blast fairly effectively thanks to its great Special bulk. Baton Pass I will concede is a fairly unreliable strategy and rarely amounts to the effectiveness you would want considering the HP you have to sacrifice to pull it off typically--Flareon is better at hitting and running or just trading hits than passing boosts in my opinion. Overall though, you may be right in that it should drop to A4.

I'll post some more thoughts sometime soon, but let me know what you think of what I've posted and I'll then go ahead with the changes.

 

[Marowhacked]

I now think C1 or C2 would be more appropriate for Slowpoke since I’ve found that it’s viability is largely dependent on what teammates it has. I found it to be pretty lackluster in this week’s RoA tour night but it has a useful ability to bait and kill Chinchou, which is immensely helpful to teams based around fire or water type attackers.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

I can certainly agree with EW that GrowthPass Flareon is not as good as it seems in practice. I believe that Fire Blast, Double Edge/Hidden Power Grass, Rest and Sleep Talk makes much better use of Flareon‘s high Sp Def to check threats like Xatu more consistently. GrowthPass is very effective when pulled off correctly but that is difficult to accomplish consistently. Rapidash and Magmar are just more consistently performing Pokemon so I certainly agree with Marowhacked that it belongs in A4




A Pokemon that I should of highlighted earlier is Graveler. In my opinion Graveler is extremly flawed in the current GSC NU metagame. It is 2HKOd by so many special attackers and sure Rapid Spin is nice and all, but that doesnt really make up for the flaws Grav has. Sudowoodo is just a better Pokemon imo because its typing and better Sp Def let it switch in easier, and it actually has room on its set to run RestTalk. Graveler preforms much less consistently then the other Pokemon in B1 rank




Sneasel is good in the GSC NU metagame mostly because of its good defensive typing, acces to reliable recovery and ability to comfortably take on Xatu letting Pokemon that are very weak to Xatu such as Weezing and the fighting types have an easier time. However, most people dont know how expansive Sneasels support movepool is. Aside from Return and Moonlight which is the only real required move(even then thats up for debate), Sneasel can ran alot of stuff. Icy Wind, Nightmare,Reflect, Dyanmic Punch, Screech, Ice Beam, Counter and Thief are all options for Sneasel to run in its last two slots which makes Sneasel a great teamplayer

 

[Earthworm]

Here are my thoughts on what should move around:

First, I think that Octillery is not worthy of A2 rank due to the very common presence of Chinchou which it doesn't have any good method of dealing with. Chinchou itself I think should be at the top of A3 rank. Sudowoodo is a very good Pokemon as it threatens absolutely everything in the metagame with its Self-Destruct, threatens a lot of Pokemon with its STAB Rock Slide, is one of the best counters to Normal-types, and also checks several other key top Pokemon like Weezing and Fire-types. It's also very nice to have against Pineco if you don't have a Gastly. On top of all of this, it's a pretty good Pokemon to have on a Baton Pass team since it can receive Speed (and/or Swords Dance) and then boost with Curse and also deal with opposing Explosion that aims to disrupt the pass. I would put it just below Magmar in A2. As the standard lead, I also think Rapidash should be bumped up above Octillery.

So my ordering of ranks 6-11 (also taking into account my previous post) would be:
A2 Sudowoodo
A3 Chinchou
A3 Rapidash
A3 Octillery
A3 Pineco
A3 Wigglytuff

Graveler I think should move down to B2. It is severely lacking in opportunities to do anything against a huge number of Pokemon. It pretty much only switches into mono Normal-types safely. It is quite dangerous if it actually manages to switch in though.

I've been using Ninetales a bit recently and I think its bulk is underrated. It is probably the best Magmar check in the tier and it also checks Xatu effectively if it has RestTalk. It usefully outspeeds Primeape and can even take on Weezing if necessary. Sunny Day teams are also surprisingly good and Ninetales is likely one of the best answers to them. I think it belongs at the top of B1 at least.

Shuckle is a very effective defensive Pokemon. As with many tiers, it walls a huge number of Pokemon, and with the relative lack of Spikes and Rapid Spin users, it gets significantly better. I suggest it moves to the top of B2.

Sneasel belongs higher. It is not amazing but it's quite decent due to walling most Xatu and pressuring many defensive Pokemon. Below Shuckle in B2 seems like a reasonable spot for now.

Hitmonlee is actually fairly good. I've been using Body Slam / High Jump Kick / Rest / Sleep Talk. It has a lot of switch in opportunities against common Pokemon thanks to its high SpD (e.g. Chinchou, Dewgong), is difficult to wall, and is very good at spreading paralysis to Weezing and Xatu, from which point you have a lot of options. I would put this in B1.

A specially bulkier but less powerful Kingler certainly has a niche. Seaking is more dangerous to Xatu since it isn't 2HKOed by HP Electric, and it can also take on HP Electric versions of Dewgong and Octillery if it has to. I think it belongs near the top of B3.

Houndour is a serious threat to Pokemon weak to Dark, especially with paralysis support. It makes for a fantastic teammate for the Hitmonlee set I mentioned earlier. I would move it up to B3.

These two are better than most of the Pokemon surrounding them. Their decent SpDef stats can allow them to muscle past Xatu if they can find opportunities to hit it on the switch (with a SE Hidden Power) and weaken it. Hitmontop is arguably the best spinner in the tier. I think they can move up to C1 or C2.

These are both solid Baton Pass users, possibly better than Ariados. I think C1 or C2 is appropriate for these.

Both of these are underrated in the rankings currently. Cubone can sweep some teams with one speed boost and a Swords Dance. Porygon has instant recovery and a solid movepool. They can move up to C2.

Two Pokemon with useful resistances (Fighting / Water / Electric and Fighting / Psychic / Water / Ice) and access to status moves that aren't ranked. Gloom competes with the other Grass-types but it is arguably the best defensive Grass-type that has Stun Spore and Sludge Bomb (unlike Ivysaur), no 4x weakness (unlike Parasect and Exeggcute), and no weakness to Rock or Poison (unlike Parasect and Tangela) stopping it from checking Primeape and non-FB Weezing. Slowpoke has been discussed above as well. I think these belong somewhere in high C or low B.

Let me know what you all think! I'll update the rankings after I've received feedback on these. I largely agree with the posts above fwiw.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

I completely agree that Ninetales is an underrated threat. Infact I believe it belongs in A3 rank. With excellent defensive typing for beating opposing Fire and Grass types it can prove to be an incredibly hard Pokémon to take down. It is a decent offensive threat even when running a defensive set thanks to its good Stab and decent special attack complimented by its great speed. While it loses to two metagame titans in Dewgong and Chinchou, I feel it deserves to be A3




I agree with Earthworm that Sudowoodo should move to A2, but I think Chinchou should aswell. Despite it’s easy exploitable physical defense, many Pokémon struggle to beat Chinchou reliably. Chinchou is an excellent Pokémon on stall teams thanks to its ability to beat threats such as Magmar, Dewgong, Xatu and Octillery and it pairs well with Fire Types to beat the Grass Types that wall most Chinchou variants



I agree with the fact that it belongs in B3, but I wouldn’t put it at the very top of B3, I believe it doesn’t bring as much to the table as Persian, Dragonair or Exeggcute


I agree with p much everything else

 

[Marowhacked]

Here are my thoughts on what should move around:

First, I think that Octillery is not worthy of A2 rank due to the very common presence of Chinchou which it doesn't have any good method of dealing with. Chinchou itself I think should be at the top of A3 rank. Sudowoodo is a very good Pokemon as it threatens absolutely everything in the metagame with its Self-Destruct, threatens a lot of Pokemon with its STAB Rock Slide, is one of the best counters to Normal-types, and also checks several other key top Pokemon like Weezing and Fire-types. It's also very nice to have against Pineco if you don't have a Gastly. On top of all of this, it's a pretty good Pokemon to have on a Baton Pass team since it can receive Speed (and/or Swords Dance) and then boost with Curse and also deal with opposing Explosion that aims to disrupt the pass. I would put it just below Magmar in A2. As the standard lead, I also think Rapidash should be bumped up above Octillery.

So my ordering of ranks 6-11 (also taking into account my previous post) would be:
A2 Sudowoodo
A3 Chinchou
A3 Rapidash
A3 Octillery
A3 Pineco
A3 Wigglytuff

Graveler I think should move down to B2. It is severely lacking in opportunities to do anything against a huge number of Pokemon. It pretty much only switches into mono Normal-types safely. It is quite dangerous if it actually manages to switch in though.

I've been using Ninetales a bit recently and I think its bulk is underrated. It is probably the best Magmar check in the tier and it also checks Xatu effectively if it has RestTalk. It usefully outspeeds Primeape and can even take on Weezing if necessary. Sunny Day teams are also surprisingly good and Ninetales is likely one of the best answers to them. I think it belongs at the top of B1 at least.

Shuckle is a very effective defensive Pokemon. As with many tiers, it walls a huge number of Pokemon, and with the relative lack of Spikes and Rapid Spin users, it gets significantly better. I suggest it moves to the top of B2.

Sneasel belongs higher. It is not amazing but it's quite decent due to walling most Xatu and pressuring many defensive Pokemon. Below Shuckle in B2 seems like a reasonable spot for now.

Hitmonlee is actually fairly good. I've been using Body Slam / High Jump Kick / Rest / Sleep Talk. It has a lot of switch in opportunities against common Pokemon thanks to its high SpD (e.g. Chinchou, Dewgong), is difficult to wall, and is very good at spreading paralysis to Weezing and Xatu, from which point you have a lot of options. I would put this in B1.

A specially bulkier but less powerful Kingler certainly has a niche. Seaking is more dangerous to Xatu since it isn't 2HKOed by HP Electric, and it can also take on HP Electric versions of Dewgong and Octillery if it has to. I think it belongs near the top of B3.

Houndour is a serious threat to Pokemon weak to Dark, especially with paralysis support. It makes for a fantastic teammate for the Hitmonlee set I mentioned earlier. I would move it up to B3.

These two are better than most of the Pokemon surrounding them. Their decent SpDef stats can allow them to muscle past Xatu if they can find opportunities to hit it on the switch (with a SE Hidden Power) and weaken it. Hitmontop is arguably the best spinner in the tier. I think they can move up to C1 or C2.

:gs/Farfetch These are both solid Baton Pass users, possibly better than Ariados. I think C1 or C2 is appropriate for these.

Both of these are underrated in the rankings currently. Cubone can sweep some teams with one speed boost and a Swords Dance. Porygon has instant recovery and a solid movepool. They can move up to C2.

Two Pokemon with useful resistances (Fighting / Water / Electric and Fighting / Psychic / Water / Ice) and access to status moves that aren't ranked. Gloom competes with the other Grass-types but it is arguably the best defensive Grass-type that has Stun Spore and Sludge Bomb (unlike Ivysaur), no 4x weakness (unlike Parasect and Exeggcute), and no weakness to Rock or Poison (unlike Parasect and Tangela) stopping it from checking Primeape and non-FB Weezing. Slowpoke has been discussed above as well. I think these belong somewhere in high C or low B.

Let me know what you all think! I'll update the rankings after I've received feedback on these. I largely agree with the posts above fwiw.

I agree with all of this, particularly the highlighting of the defensive capabilities of Ninetales, Shuckle, and the Hitmons. I’ve been an enthusiast of offensive teams and one of the few times I’ve been completely walled was by you using a team with that defensive core (with hitmonchan). The general discussion thread is probably a better discuss team archetypes but it’s nice to see the emergence of defensive options in a tier where offense and balance seem to be the most popular play styles.

As mentioned, Octillery has taken a hit from the popularity of Chinchou and I believe Dewgong has as well. I think it’s currently undeserving of it’s #2 rank as it has a number of problems:
- it doesn’t pair well with normals and rocks because it stacks another fighting weakness
- it’s a water type that doesn’t resist fire (and can be 2hko’d by magmar under sun)
- every other Pokémon ranked in the current top 5 typically carries a coverage move for it (though not always Xatu), limiting its ability to switch/stay in.
- Unless it carries HP grass, it’s completely countered by Chinchou which the latter can take advantage of by hitting something hard on the switch or spreading paralysis.
I suggest moving Dewgong down to A2 or A3 for these reasons.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

I agree with all of this, particularly the highlighting of the defensive capabilities of Ninetales, Shuckle, and the Hitmons. I’ve been an enthusiast of offensive teams and one of the few times I’ve been completely walled was by you using a team with that defensive core (with hitmonchan). The general discussion thread is probably a better discuss team archetypes but it’s nice to see the emergence of defensive options in a tier where offense and balance seem to be the most popular play styles.

View attachment 262940
As mentioned, Octillery has taken a hit from the popularity of Chinchou and I believe Dewgong has as well. I think it’s currently undeserving of it’s #2 rank as it has a number of problems:
- it doesn’t pair well with normals and rocks because it stacks another fighting weakness
- it’s a water type that doesn’t resist fire (and can be 2hko’d by magmar under sun)
- every other Pokémon ranked in the current top 5 typically carries a coverage move for it (though not always Xatu), limiting its ability to switch/stay in.
- Unless it carries HP grass, it’s completely countered by Chinchou which the latter can take advantage of by hitting something hard on the switch or spreading paralysis.
I suggest moving Dewgong down to A2 or A3 for these reasons.

I completely agree that Dewgong doesn’t deserve the #2 spot. Marowhacked already mentioned the main reasons why, but like the last 7 GSC NU teams I’ve made I’ve always just used Chinchou over Dewgong because it brings much more to the table and checks more Pokémon effectively. I’m not saying Gong is bad but it hasn’t worked as well recently so I’d probably put it at the bottom of A2 rank

 

[Earthworm]

The OP has been updated! Thanks for all of the suggestions, I tried to take everything into account. I also added Snubbull to the bottom of the rankings which I am hoping will be fairly uncontroversial since Heal Bell is a pretty potent move and it's the only Pokemon that has it. Feel free to continue suggesting changes based on your experiences.

Changelog

Xatu (1 -> 1, +0)
Weezing (3 -> 2, +1)
Primeape (4 -> 3, +1)
Dewgong (2 -> 4, -2)
Magmar (5 -> 5, +0)
Sudowoodo (10 -> 6, +4)
Chinchou (9 -> 7, +2)
Rapidash (11 -> 8, +3)
Octillery (6 -> 9, -3)
Pineco (7 -> 10, -3)
Wigglytuff (14 -> 11, +3)
Flareon (8 -> 12, -4)
Kingler (12 -> 13, -1)
Ninetales (19 -> 14, +5)
Stantler (13 -> 15, -2)
Lickitung (15 -> 16, -1)
Dugtrio (17 -> 17, +0)
Fearow (18 -> 18, +0)
Hitmonlee (31 -> 19, +12)
Magnemite (20 -> 20, +0)
Shuckle (25 -> 21, +4)
Sneasel (28 -> 22, +6)
Gastly (21 -> 23, -2)
Azumarill (22 -> 24, -2)
Dunsparce (23 -> 25, -2)
Graveler (16 -> 26, -10)
Pidgeot (24 -> 27, -3)
Persian (26 -> 28, -2)
Dragonair (27 -> 29, -2)
Seaking (34 -> 30, +4)
Houndour (37 -> 31, +6)
Delibird (29 -> 32, -3)
Exeggcute (30 -> 33, -3)
Mantine (32 -> 34, -2)
Arbok (33 -> 35, -2)
Ledian (56 -> 36, +20)
Farfetch'd (57 -> 37, +20)
Hitmontop (52 -> 38, +14)
Hitmonchan (54 -> 39, +15)
Corsola (35 -> 40, -5)
Tangela (36 -> 41, -5)
Porygon (53 -> 42, +11)
Cubone (58 -> 43, +15)
Murkrow (38 -> 44, -6)
Slowpoke (Unranked -> 45, NEW)
Gloom (Unranked -> 46, NEW)
Bayleef (39 -> 47, -8)
Seadra (40 -> 48, -8)
Raticate (41 -> 49, -8)
Machoke (42 -> 50, -8)
Parasect (43 -> 51, -8)
Venomoth (44 -> 52, -8)
Magcargo (45 -> 53, -8)
Ariados (46 -> 54, -8)
Poliwhirl (47 -> 55, -8)
Flaaffy (48 -> 56, -8)
Staryu (49 -> 57, -8)
Elekid (50 -> 58, -8)
Noctowl (51 -> 59, -8)
Ivysaur (55 -> 60, -5)
Abra (59 -> 61, -2)
Furret (60 -> 62, -2)
Wartortle (61 -> 63, -2)
Sunflora (62 -> 64, -2)
Voltorb (63 -> 65, -2)
Pupitar (64 -> 66, -2)
Beedrill (65 -> 67, -2)
Croconaw (66 -> 68, -2)
Charmeleon (67 -> 69, -2)
Aipom (68 -> 70, -2)
Tentacool (69 -> 71, -2)
Onix (70 -> 72, -2)
Snubbull (Unranked -> 73, NEW)

 

[Gamer1234556]

Chinchou and Dewgong should switch places. Chinchou is one of the best mons in the current metagame thanks to its ability to wall and force out Common Water and Fire-Types in the Tier. It also has workable enough bulk that it can reliably run a Rest-Talk set for it to stay alive for long periods of time. The fact that Sunny Day is more common than before just goes to show how important Chinchou really is. Dewgong in contrast seems to be struggling more in the meta. Its typing is not very good defensively as it practically leaves it as a walking target for Primeape to wreak havoc and the fact that Sunny Day is more common makes Dewgong even worse at checking Fire-Types. Chinchou being more common doesn't help it all that much either.

 

[FNH]

Chinchou and Dewgong should switch places. Chinchou is one of the best mons in the current metagame thanks to its ability to wall and force out Common Water and Fire-Types in the Tier. It also has workable enough bulk that it can reliably run a Rest-Talk set for it to stay alive for long periods of time. The fact that Sunny Day is more common than before just goes to show how important Chinchou really is. Dewgong in contrast seems to be struggling more in the meta. Its typing is not very good defensively as it practically leaves it as a walking target for Primeape to wreak havoc and the fact that Sunny Day is more common makes Dewgong even worse at checking Fire-Types. Chinchou being more common doesn't help it all that much either.

I do agree, Chinchou is a threat and quite good at the moment.

Not the most expirienced GSC NU'er but a quick nitpick based on my observations.

I’d argue Dugtrio is seriously good here as a late game sweeper. I have been using a 4 attacks variant currently. Generally if he used rather sparingly and paired with a hard hitter (Kingler or Sudowoodo are what I have been using) + spikes in the late game the Duggy can be a serious threat here. So many teams have multiple ground weakness’s with only one immunity and maybe one resist (that also generally doesn’t like to take a Rock Slide) that Dug’s speed and coverage let him prey on a large portion of the meta, performing some nice late game cleans. I’d argue that he could go to the top of the A4 category.

 

[freezingpop87]

I think this guy deserves a bit more than D rank, It checks the curse normals extremely well (screech, does well against the tier's best mon, Xatu, and under Sunny Day, does well against Chinchou, which has been seeing a lot of usage lately.

Super excited to see where this meta will go next !

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

I’d like to share my thoughts on the nominations that were previously shared.




Personally, I agree with most of what is said here. However I think putting Chinchou as the 4th best Pokémon in the tier is cutting it a bit too high. While it’s true Chinchou is a metagame defining Pokémon that must be kept in mind while team building, there’s some matchups that it falls flat in. Hitmonlee and Gloom have seen rises in popularity recently and both dominate Chinchou one on one. In addition Chinchou’s glaring weakness to Physcial attacks make it tough to switch in especially with Spikes down, so I think probably in between Magmar and Sudowoodo is a better fit for it. As for Dewgong, it’s still an incredibly effective Pokémon in certain matchups but with how common all of Hitmonlee, Primeape, Sunny Day Teams and Chinchou are it’s getting difficult to use this Pokémon effectively




I agree with what FnH said. Dugtrio is easily one of the most dangerous threats in the tier currently with its completely unresisted QuakeSlide attacking combo. It being the fastest Pokémon in the entire tier is also a huge upside, as it’s able to revenge kill Primeape and Xatu, which makes Dugtrio arguably the best late game cleaner in the entire tier




Shoutouts to freezingpop87 for making realise how solid this is. Pupitar has a ton of great qualities over its fellow Rock Types such as Sudowoodo and Graveler. Pupitar has access to Ancient Power, which can make it a dangerous sweeper since it’s stab combo is completely unresisted by any Pokémon in the tier. It also has many opportunities to obtain the boost from Ancient Power since it blanks common Pokémon like Wigglytuff, Rapidash, Haze variants of Weezing and Magmar. Pupitar also destroys Curse Normals thanks to resisting their moves and Screech’s away their defense’s. This mon has had quite a surge in popularity lately it seems, so I think C1 or B3 is more fitting for it

As for a couple my own nominations, here they are




B1>A3

Hitmonlee is an excellent Pokémon currently. It’s very bulky on the special side and hits a lot of metagame threats very hard which lets it dominate Chinchou, Dewgong, Ninetales, Sudowoodo and Wigglytuff. While it does look like it has to run from the arguable two best Pokémon in the tier in Xatu and Weezing, it can paralyse Xatu on the switch so it’s partner Houndour can easily trap and KO Xatu and Weezing generally despise being paralysed. Hitmonlee is a Pokémon that can fit on a ton of teams since it brings a lot of defensive and offensive utility to its team, so I believe A3 or at the very least top of A4 is fitting for it



A4>A2

This might be controversial but I truly believe Ninetales to be one of absolute best Pokémon in the tier. It’s just such a reliable consistent Pokémon that I personally believe it belongs in A2. Ninetales has excellent speed, solid offenses and is very bulky. Ninetales is one of the most reliable Xatu checks in the tier, since it outspeeds and 3HKOs it with just Flamethrower. Ninetales is also easy to fit on a lot of teams since it is a good catch all to a lot of threats, notably Ninetales completely dominates Sunny Day teams. Ninetales and Chinchou make an excellent defensive core especially, since Chinchou dominates the bulky waters that beat Ninetales while Tales beats Grasses and eases off pressure for Chinchou to beat Xatu. Overall, Ninetales is an excellent Pokémon that I believe is one of the best in the tier



A4>A3

Kingler is one of the most dangerous Pokémon in the entire tier thanks to its sky high attack stat and Sword’s Dance, letting it act as a fearsome sweeper. Kingler is also incredibly bulky on the Physcial side, letting it act as one of the best checks to Dugtrio and Primeape, so I vote it to be A3


B2>C1

Gastly is way too inconsistent in my opinion to be in B2 rank. It’s awkward speed tier, complete lack of defensive utility besides checking Normals and inability to do much damage to a lot of Pokémon make it just a nicher pick in my opinion


UR>D

Rhyhorn has a small, albeit good niche as one of only two normal resistant phasers in the tier and which is huge considering how dangerous Wigglytuff and Dunsparce are. It also hits decently hard with it’s great StabCombo. However Pupitar gives it fierce competition as a Normal Beating Rock Type, so bottom of D rank is a suitable spot for it I believe



C1>B3

Ledian is almost inarguably the best Baton Passer in the tier. The ability to pass Agility and boosts to both defenses in Barrier and Light Screen make it an incredibly dangerous Pokémon. If you manage to pass Speed to something like Cubone or Belly Drum Lickitung then the game can end right there on the spot.




These three mons are definitely better then the rest of the D Rank mons. Charmelon is a dangerous sweeper thanks to Belly Drum, Furret has solid coverage moves in Dynamic Punch and has usable bulk and lastly Tentacool is one of if not the best Spinners in the tier thanks to its excellent Toxic immunity. I think all could be in C4 rank at the very least

 

[FNH]

Kingler is one of the most dangerous Pokémon in the entire tier thanks to its sky high attack stat and Sword’s Dance, letting it act as a fearsome sweeper. Kingler is also incredibly bulky on the Physcial side, letting it act as one of the best checks to Dugtrio and Primeape, so I vote it to be A3

This is accurate from my observations. Currently Kingler is a great breaker. I have been using him in Dugtrio team, using Kingler to deal out attacks setting up Dugtrio for a late game sweep. His defense does allow him to check physical threats, also Rapidash and Ninetails both who seem common, are easy ins for Kingler, letting him get a boast and smash.

Hitmonlee is an excellent Pokémon currently. It’s very bulky on the special side and hits a lot of metagame threats very hard which lets it dominate Chinchou, Dewgong, Ninetales, Sudowoodo and Wigglytuff. While it does look like it has to run from the arguable two best Pokémon in the tier in Xatu and Weezing, it can paralyse Xatu on the switch so it’s partner Houndour can easily trap and KO Xatu and Weezing generally despise being paralysed. Hitmonlee is a Pokémon that can fit on a ton of teams since it brings a lot of defensive and offensive utility to its team, so I believe A3 or at the very least top of A4 is fitting for it

I would argue that a Pokemon that is walled by Xatu and Weezing should go any higher then A4. But based on my observations, He has the ability to be a great offensive threat that can be paried quite well in a large variety of teams. So A4 is quite good spot for him.

 

[Earthworm]

My thoughts on these nominations:


I agree with CentaurMM6 regarding Chinchou. It is not quite good enough to be rank 4, but it's certainly still very good, even with the metagame naturally shifting away from the Water-types that it takes advantage of due to its very common presence. Dewgong I feel is underrated at the moment, although Chinchou obviously punishes it.


I also agree with FNH and CentaurMM6 regarding Dugtrio. It should probably move up to the top of A4.


I've thought Pupitar was underrated for a while, but seeing replays of it recently has convinced me it should be much higher as freezingpop87 and CentaurMM6 have suggested. Tentatively going to consider C1 for it.

re: CentaurMM6 post

I agree with CentaurMM6 on this one as well. Hitmonlee has a huge amount of potential.


For this nomination I think A2 is a bit too high. I do think it is doing quite well though, so provided things continue to look good for Ninetales I would be inclined to move it to A3.


I agree with this nomination. A3 is a suitable position for Kingler based on its huge offensive presence. Basically unstoppable with paralysis support.


Yeah, Gastly is terrible. C1 sounds fine for it.


Rhyhorn surpassed my expectations when you brought it against me recently. I am happy to rank it in D.


I'm actually not 100% sure that Ledian is the best Baton Passer. Farfetch'd is pretty stiff competition in my opinion. But I would still support this rise.


I've been testing Belly Drum Charmeleon and I think it's not unusable. I would support C4 for it.


This thing has been doing legitimately well for me somehow. It is really good at keeping Spikes off the field for teams that can properly appreciate that. I am happy to move it to C3 in the absence of objections.


Furret has a pretty interesting movepool with useful moves that the other Normal-types don't get. It also has a decent but somewhat unfortunate Speed tier. I'm confident it's better than D rank but not sure of where to put it yet since I haven't used it.


Other Pokemon that I think can probably move
Potential rise

Arbok has looked pretty good when I've seen it recently. Good matchups against Primeape and Weezing are helpful. Farfetch'd is a very scary Pokemon to give free turns to. Porygon beats a ridiculous number of Pokemon with the basic strategy of Thunder Wave + Recover + STAB DE. Gloom has very useful typing and stats as well as a good movepool and has been quite successful lately.

Potential fall

I've seen pretty much no Graveler recently. Nor have I seen any Delibird at all. Tangela I've seen a few times but it feels like it never does anything much. Murkrow is also completely absent.

Before I make any of these changes though, I plan to wait for the GSC NU tournament being hosted on Makkususu (cherryb0ng)'s Discord server to finish so that we can look at some stats.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

Now that the GSC NU tournament has ended, I‘d like to show the overall usage stats of the tournament so we get a better feel as to what is trending in the metagame

GSC NU Usage Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Xatu               |   56 |  65.12% |  44.64% |
| 2    | Weezing            |   39 |  45.35% |  41.03% |
| 3    | Primeape           |   32 |  37.21% |  37.50% |
| 4    | Chinchou           |   28 |  32.56% |  42.86% |
| 5    | Pineco             |   26 |  30.23% |  57.69% |
| 6    | Magnemite          |   23 |  26.74% |  43.48% |
| 7    | Wigglytuff         |   20 |  23.26% |  45.00% |
| 8    | Kingler            |   17 |  19.77% |  70.59% |
| 8    | Stantler           |   17 |  19.77% |  41.18% |
| 10   | Arbok              |   16 |  18.60% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Rapidash           |   16 |  18.60% |  31.25% |
| 12   | Dugtrio            |   15 |  17.44% |  53.33% |
| 13   | Ninetales          |   14 |  16.28% |  57.14% |
| 14   | Dewgong            |   13 |  15.12% |  69.23% |
| 14   | Magmar             |   13 |  15.12% |  23.08% |
| 16   | Hitmonlee          |   11 |  12.79% |  63.64% |
| 17   | Dunsparce          |   10 |  11.63% |  40.00% |
| 18   | Fearow             |    9 |  10.47% |  66.67% |
| 18   | Octillery          |    9 |  10.47% |  44.44% |
| 20   | Azumarill          |    8 |   9.30% |  37.50% |
| 20   | Sunflora           |    8 |   9.30% |  37.50% |
| 22   | Flareon            |    7 |   8.14% |  71.43% |
| 22   | Sudowoodo          |    7 |   8.14% |  42.86% |
| 24   | Poliwhirl          |    6 |   6.98% |  66.67% |
| 24   | Lickitung          |    6 |   6.98% |  50.00% |
| 24   | Mantine            |    6 |   6.98% |  33.33% |
| 27   | Dragonair          |    5 |   5.81% |  80.00% |
| 27   | Pupitar            |    5 |   5.81% |  60.00% |
| 27   | Farfetch’d         |    5 |   5.81% |  40.00% |
| 30   | Gloom              |    4 |   4.65% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Porygon            |    4 |   4.65% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Furret             |    4 |   4.65% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Flaaffy            |    4 |   4.65% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Venomoth           |    4 |   4.65% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Cubone             |    4 |   4.65% |  25.00% |
| 36   | Houndour           |    3 |   3.49% |  66.67% |
| 36   | Bayleef            |    3 |   3.49% |  66.67% |
| 38   | Parasect           |    2 |   2.33% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Corsola            |    2 |   2.33% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Exeggcute          |    2 |   2.33% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Ledian             |    2 |   2.33% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Tangela            |    2 |   2.33% |  50.00% |
| 43   | Voltorb            |    1 |   1.16% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Magcargo           |    1 |   1.16% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Slowpoke           |    1 |   1.16% | 100.00% |
| 43   | Tentacool          |    1 |   1.16% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Persian            |    1 |   1.16% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Snubbull           |    1 |   1.16% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Sneasel            |    1 |   1.16% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Murkrow            |    1 |   1.16% |   0.00% |

Xatu continues to be the best Pokemon in the tier, being on over half of all teams in the tournament is an impressive feat



Magnemite saw a huge spike in usage this tour, coming in at 6th place. I wonder if it deserves a VR rise



Arbok also saw surprisingly high usage, even more then some staples such as Magmar



Kingler is doing extraordinarily well, having an excellent win rate of 70%, higher then any Pokemon in the top ten



Although the usage of these Fire types was high, they had very poor winrates. I contribute this to the overall presence of Anti-Fire options in the tier, such as Chinchou, Ninetales and Dugtrio



Specially bulky defensive Pokemon are doing very well, all three of these Pokemon had well over 55% usage.



Sunflora somehow had good usage although a mediocre win rate. This surprised me, as Sunflora was used even more then Gloom who I consider to be easily the best Grass type in GSC NU



Sudowoodo saw surprisingly little usage despite the fact that Normal types such as Wigglytuff and Fearow are currently common and dangerous.



Persian was only used once. I think we should move this one down on the VR, it faces serious competition from Stantler

Let me know any nominations you have based off of these usage stats!

 

[Earthworm]

Alright, I have a significant number of changes to propose:


Based on the tour stats, these two are not doing well. Magmar did substantially worse than Rapidash so I suggest a drop to mid A4. Rapidash is seeing a lot of use but its status as the default lead has led to a lot of countermeasures being adopted. A more modest drop within A3 seems appropriate here.


On the flipside of this, we have the Pokemon largely responsible for Magmar's issues, the resilient and successful fox. I have very much warmed up to a significant rise and I see mid A2 as appropriate.


Xatu I regard as having become more mandatory than previously. The overall defensive trend of the metagame has benefited both Pineco and Kingler and this shows in the stats. Xatu is probably the best and most consistent Kingler check, and thus I now consider it to be on its own level and would recommend the creation of an S rank: population Xatu.


These three are all fantastic and this can be confirmed through their very high usage and Dewgong's high win rate. While Weezing is still decidedly the tier's #2 in my mind, I feel that Primeape and Dewgong are good enough to be listed alongside it in A1 rank.

Hitmonlee is performing very well and the stats suggest it should move up. It offers both strong offensive and defensive utility. Going to say just below Ninetales in A2 is a good spot for it.


Pineco is the tier's only relevant Spiker. With more defensively-aligned teams trending Pineco has only gotten stronger. This is backed up by its popularity and high win rate. There are more opportunities to set up and explode than before. Suggesting top of A2.


Kingler is another big winner from the metagame trends, and this is reflected in its ridiculous win rate. It has a variety of effective sets and is very hard to deal with consistently from a defensive point-of-view. Suggesting bottom of A2 and wouldn't be opposed to bumping it higher.


Magnemite has seen an explosion in popularity and I'm not certain why, but it's a great check to anything that forgoes coverage for it and is also nearly impossible to wall. Its frailty does hold it back a bit though. Suggesting bottom of A3.


Dugtrio continues to improve with the rise of Magnemite and Chinchou and the fall of Octillery. It did reasonably well in the tour so a rise to near the top of A3 seems appropriate.


Sudowoodo didn't see a huge amount of usage and its win rate was fairly average. A lot of teams are dropping it, so going to suggest a drop to the top of A3.


Similarly to Sudowoodo, Octillery is not doing amazingly and seems to be getting dropped in favour of other options, so suggesting a drop to the bottom of A3.


Fearow is one of the tier's hardest hitters and offers a good incentive to use a Pokemon resistant to Normal. Fearow did quite well when it was used, so I think a rise to A4 is in order for it.


Azumarill is a great tank and offers decent support despite its low damage output. While it only had a fairly mediocre showing, it probably deserves a small rise as it has proved to be viable. Suggesting top of B1.


Gloom has an excellent metagame niche as a Pokemon that can check both Primeape and Chinchou and spread paralysis in a single slot. Suggesting B1 for it.


Farfetch'd is an extremely dangerous Pokemon, especially behind screens. It was not used that much in the tour but was reasonably effective when it was. Suggesting B1 for it.


As foreshadowed in my previous post I am suggesting huge rises for these into B1 and B2. Arbok was used a lot and to reasonable success, and Porygon was used a little bit to good success.


These Pokemon which clearly all have at least decent potential barely appeared at all in the tour. I'm fairly confident that they are all viable, but due to their lack of usage I suggest drops to B2/B3.


There has been some increased Raticate usage recently and it seems quite dangerous and effective, so suggesting B3 for it.


Pupitar has seen a decent increase in use thanks to its niche as a Rock-type that can take special attacks and hit hard with STAB EQ. Suggesting it rise to B2.


These two Pokemon both resist Chinchou's STAB attacks. Exeggcute, while not used much in the tour, has shown good potential and offers a lot to a team with Explosion, status moves, and resistances to both Ground and Fighting. Dragonair was not used a lot but its support with TWave and Light Screen seems to have paid dividends when it was used. Suggesting Exeggcute move up to B2 and Dragonair remain in B3.


While Seaking is not terrible, it is clearly outclassed by Kingler in almost every way and its lack of usage reflects that. Suggesting a drop to the top of C1.


Cubone is probably the best Speed recipient in the tier. It OHKOes a ridiculous number of Pokemon at +2 Attack. Top of B2 seems like a good spot since it is dependent on the Baton Pass users.


These two are doing incredibly poorly. There's not really a place for Hitmontop in the metagame, its Defense isn't good enough to take on physical attackers reliably and its Attack is outclassed by the other Hitmons. Seadra just sucks against the metagame and especially Chinchou. Suggesting a fall to C2 and C3.


Poliwhirl is a pretty good anti-lead with Miracle Berry Lovely Kiss and can get the ball rolling for offensive teams with Belly Drum. It is outsped by Haze Xatu though, and it struggles to OHKO anything even at +6 Attack. I still recommend a rise to C2 for it.


These all saw tour usage (and won games) so I support rises to C3/C4 for them.


So these are based more off my experience than the tour. Elekid I think is a half-decent offensive Pokemon, though it has major downsides, the main ones being that it is dependent on a 70 acc move to be fully effective and that its defenses are awful. Venomoth I think is really terrible in the metagame. So I suggest a small rise for Elekid and a small drop for Venomoth.


Snubbull is not absolutely unusable, suggesting a rise to near the top of D rank.


I think I might have been a bit optimistic about Charmeleon. I think D is a more suitable location than C4 for it.


Staryu is really bad in my opinion. Use a different spinner. Suggesting a drop to D.


Drowzee is extremely weak, but makes for decent support Pokemon that can somewhat check weaker special threats and resists Fighting. So I suggest C4 for it.


Weepinbell is really bad, but possibly (?) decent enough to be ranked in D.


I plan to enact changes this weekend so if you disagree or want to suggest further changes, now is a good time to do so. Furthermore, GSC PU will be launched soon based off the VR after the update so get excited for that!

 

[FNH]

Hardly a GSC NU expert but I'll just gonna post some thoughts on what you said. I will only talk to the mons I have observed enough to know a bit about.

On the flipside of this, we have the Pokemon largely responsible for Magmar's issues, the resilient and successful fox. I have very much warmed up to a significant rise and I see mid A2 as appropriate.

Ninetails is a pretty good check to sunny day teams that commonly carry Magmar and Rapidash. I would venture to say Ninetails is part of the reason why the previous two aren't doing so hot (Based on me observations neither seem to like to run Rest, so toxic Ninetails is a nice check).

Xatu I regard as having become more mandatory than previously. The overall defensive trend of the metagame has benefited both Pineco and Kingler and this shows in the stats. Xatu is probably the best and most consistent Kingler check, and thus I now consider it to be on its own level and would recommend the creation of an S rank: population Xatu.

Can't argue with this. While Xatu isn't mandatory per say, it just that its speed, bulk, and power allow it fit so easily into teams that there really isn't any point to not use him. S rank is fitting.

These three are all fantastic and this can be confirmed through their very high usage and Dewgong's high win rate. While Weezing is still decidedly the tier's #2 in my mind, I feel that Primeape and Dewgong are good enough to be listed alongside it in A1 rank.

:Dewong: Dewgong seems to be in less favor recently due to the rise of Chinchou. With that said it's still bulky and has some very useful STABs. Depending on how the A2 changes I'd argue for bottom of the A2. As for Primeape and Weezing, well, you can't go wrong with using either.

:gs/Magmemite:
Magnemite has seen an explosion in popularity and I'm not certain why, but it's a great check to anything that forgoes coverage for it and is also nearly impossible to wall. Its frailty does hold it back a bit though. Suggesting bottom of A3.

I feel hesitant about rising him up that high. Magnemite currently sits in B1 and I think A4 is more appropriate. His defenses are pretty poor as you said, so I think his role in the tier is really relagated to a Xatu check (classic Psychic / Drill Peck Xatu's are useless vs it. Other varients prefer a Hp that isnt Ground as well, so yes, its a Xatu check). Also Magnemite is not particulary fast either, which further hurts its ability as a swap cause it will most likely get 2 shot (its not really gonna come in on much). I think its role is pretty one dimensional to rise above A4.

Dugtrio continues to improve with the rise of Magnemite and Chinchou and the fall of Octillery. It did reasonably well in the tour so a rise to near the top of A3 seems appropriate.

I have posted on Dugtrio before, but just gonna say it again. Dugtrio with Spikes support is a big threat. Concur with this movement.

Pupitar has seen a decent increase in use thanks to its niche as a Rock-type that can take special attacks and hit hard with STAB EQ. Suggesting it rise to B2.

I actually have yet to use this. But playing against it can be annoying with out a bulky water to check it. Pupitar is surprisingly good. Ancient power lucky boost is also just dumb.

EDIT:

from my original post to not double post.

I fail to see the point of including fringe to borderline not viable mons here. Things like Ivysaur and Onix sitting in the D rank. But they really are generally outclassed in all aspects by better Pokemon in the tier. Inclusion of extremely limited and fringe mons, in my opinion, hurts the overall usefullness as a resource. Players like Earthworm and ReeceHughes can see the viability and usefulness of them (albeit very specific roles that they generally are guarenteed to accomplish successfully), but niether ReeceHughes or Earthworm need a Vr to indicate whats viable. I on the otherhand don't get the viability, so their inclusion on the list, indicates that they are viable so I could try them. But if they suck really badly and are very specific, then including very mons limited to such niche fringe rolls can hinder the learning of the tier and overall success of new players.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

Alright, I have a significant number of changes to propose:


Based on the tour stats, these two are not doing well. Magmar did substantially worse than Rapidash so I suggest a drop to mid A4. Rapidash is seeing a lot of use but its status as the default lead has led to a lot of countermeasures being adopted. A more modest drop within A3 seems appropriate here.


On the flipside of this, we have the Pokemon largely responsible for Magmar's issues, the resilient and successful fox. I have very much warmed up to a significant rise and I see mid A2 as appropriate.


Xatu I regard as having become more mandatory than previously. The overall defensive trend of the metagame has benefited both Pineco and Kingler and this shows in the stats. Xatu is probably the best and most consistent Kingler check, and thus I now consider it to be on its own level and would recommend the creation of an S rank: population Xatu.


These three are all fantastic and this can be confirmed through their very high usage and Dewgong's high win rate. While Weezing is still decidedly the tier's #2 in my mind, I feel that Primeape and Dewgong are good enough to be listed alongside it in A1 rank.

Hitmonlee is performing very well and the stats suggest it should move up. It offers both strong offensive and defensive utility. Going to say just below Ninetales in A2 is a good spot for it.


Pineco is the tier's only relevant Spiker. With more defensively-aligned teams trending Pineco has only gotten stronger. This is backed up by its popularity and high win rate. There are more opportunities to set up and explode than before. Suggesting top of A2.


Kingler is another big winner from the metagame trends, and this is reflected in its ridiculous win rate. It has a variety of effective sets and is very hard to deal with consistently from a defensive point-of-view. Suggesting bottom of A2 and wouldn't be opposed to bumping it higher.


Magnemite has seen an explosion in popularity and I'm not certain why, but it's a great check to anything that forgoes coverage for it and is also nearly impossible to wall. Its frailty does hold it back a bit though. Suggesting bottom of A3.


Dugtrio continues to improve with the rise of Magnemite and Chinchou and the fall of Octillery. It did reasonably well in the tour so a rise to near the top of A3 seems appropriate.


Sudowoodo didn't see a huge amount of usage and its win rate was fairly average. A lot of teams are dropping it, so going to suggest a drop to the top of A3.


Similarly to Sudowoodo, Octillery is not doing amazingly and seems to be getting dropped in favour of other options, so suggesting a drop to the bottom of A3.


Fearow is one of the tier's hardest hitters and offers a good incentive to use a Pokemon resistant to Normal. Fearow did quite well when it was used, so I think a rise to A4 is in order for it.


Azumarill is a great tank and offers decent support despite its low damage output. While it only had a fairly mediocre showing, it probably deserves a small rise as it has proved to be viable. Suggesting top of B1.


Gloom has an excellent metagame niche as a Pokemon that can check both Primeape and Chinchou and spread paralysis in a single slot. Suggesting B1 for it.

:gs/Farfetch
Farfetch'd is an extremely dangerous Pokemon, especially behind screens. It was not used that much in the tour but was reasonably effective when it was. Suggesting B1 for it.


As foreshadowed in my previous post I am suggesting huge rises for these into B1 and B2. Arbok was used a lot and to reasonable success, and Porygon was used a little bit to good success.


These Pokemon which clearly all have at least decent potential barely appeared at all in the tour. I'm fairly confident that they are all viable, but due to their lack of usage I suggest drops to B2/B3.


There has been some increased Raticate usage recently and it seems quite dangerous and effective, so suggesting B3 for it.


Pupitar has seen a decent increase in use thanks to its niche as a Rock-type that can take special attacks and hit hard with STAB EQ. Suggesting it rise to B2.


These two Pokemon both resist Chinchou's STAB attacks. Exeggcute, while not used much in the tour, has shown good potential and offers a lot to a team with Explosion, status moves, and resistances to both Ground and Fighting. Dragonair was not used a lot but its support with TWave and Light Screen seems to have paid dividends when it was used. Suggesting Exeggcute move up to B2 and Dragonair remain in B3.


While Seaking is not terrible, it is clearly outclassed by Kingler in almost every way and its lack of usage reflects that. Suggesting a drop to the top of C1.


Cubone is probably the best Speed recipient in the tier. It OHKOes a ridiculous number of Pokemon at +2 Attack. Top of B2 seems like a good spot since it is dependent on the Baton Pass users.


These two are doing incredibly poorly. There's not really a place for Hitmontop in the metagame, its Defense isn't good enough to take on physical attackers reliably and its Attack is outclassed by the other Hitmons. Seadra just sucks against the metagame and especially Chinchou. Suggesting a fall to C2 and C3.


Poliwhirl is a pretty good anti-lead with Miracle Berry Lovely Kiss and can get the ball rolling for offensive teams with Belly Drum. It is outsped by Haze Xatu though, and it struggles to OHKO anything even at +6 Attack. I still recommend a rise to C2 for it.


These all saw tour usage (and won games) so I support rises to C3/C4 for them.


So these are based more off my experience than the tour. Elekid I think is a half-decent offensive Pokemon, though it has major downsides, the main ones being that it is dependent on a 70 acc move to be fully effective and that its defenses are awful. Venomoth I think is really terrible in the metagame. So I suggest a small rise for Elekid and a small drop for Venomoth.


Snubbull is not absolutely unusable, suggesting a rise to near the top of D rank.


I think I might have been a bit optimistic about Charmeleon. I think D is a more suitable location than C4 for it.


Staryu is really bad in my opinion. Use a different spinner. Suggesting a drop to D.


Drowzee is extremely weak, but makes for decent support Pokemon that can somewhat check weaker special threats and resists Fighting. So I suggest C4 for it.


Weepinbell is really bad, but possibly (?) decent enough to be ranked in D.


I plan to enact changes this weekend so if you disagree or want to suggest further changes, now is a good time to do so. Furthermore, GSC PU will be launched soon based off the VR after the update so get excited for that!

Great post Earthworm, really nicely detailed about all the mons. I personally agree with everything said here, so I will give one small nomination just before the VR update.



Personally, I think Nidorina could be moved to the very bottom of D rank, since it is the only Poison-type in the tier with access to reliable recovery in Moonlight that is not weak to Fire, unlike Gloom, which makes it on of the best checks to Primeape available. Although this niche is very small, I’ve used Nidorina to moderate success recently




Secondly, about the final part of FNH post, I agree with this. I personally think that Ivysaur, Onix, and Aipom are just completely unviable and don’t deserve to be even ranked at all. Ivysaur is completely outclassed by Gloom except for Light Screen, which is cool but still almost never enough to earn it a team slot, Onix is simply a meme pick with Sharpen, Earthquake, Rock Slide and Explosion sounding cool, but Onix is garbage defensively and needs many Sharpen boosts to start doing any serious damage, and finally Aipom is almost entirely outclassed by Farfetch’d(lol in fact I don’t think I’ve every seen a single Aipom and I’ve played over 200 games).

 

[Earthworm]

I will take those suggestions and unrank Ivysaur / Onix / Aipom. I will also withdraw my Weepinbell nomination, since I think Gloom will probably pull off the role of offensive Grass/Poison better with its better defensive stats.

Nidorina I'm very hesitant on, mainly because Thunder is unlikely to 2HKO Xatu. But it is physically bulkier than Gloom I guess. Can it actually be argued that it is not outclassed by Pain Split Weezing?

I am seeking further opinions on Magnemite, since we have some players saying it deserves A3 and others saying that's too high.

 

[freezingpop87]

First off, I'd like to say a huge thank you to everyone who participated in the recent tourney! Seeing this metagame develop and grow has been amazing and while I'm not the best player in the world, it has been a blast.



Dugtrio is an incredible threat to almost everything not named... well Dugtrio. As if EQ + RS wasn't enough, the thing gets even more coverage in Sludge Bomb. I think it atleast deserves to switch places with Sudowoodo, which has been seeing a decline in use recently.



I'm so proud of it, seeing the thing get +1 in everything makes my day, it's just like a game of poker. I'd say B2 is great for it.



Mr. Crabs deserves a raise. The thing is very powerful, and not many things want to switch into a +2 Double Edge.



Stantler wishes it had that speed, with a Hypnosis + Thief and Nightmare set, atleast something is going to sleep, and something is going to lose their lefties, personally, I think its a tad more useful than Raticate.



Being able to spread para when switching all willy nilly on Chinchou and Fightings and not having absolutely trash stats like the grasses in the tier make it IMO the best grass type on the tier.



I have hope for this thing, slightly awkward speed tier, but it has some useful moves.



It does the Sleep + Nightmare schtick, without Persian's speed, but also without 60% accurate moves.


thank you all again for the great times, here's to many more!


not you though, get back on the bottom of the VR.