Gen 2 GSC OU Viability Rankings mk. 3

People (even really good players and shit) tend to underrate passive damage. Cloy is better than Forry, easily. The opportunity cost of not running Cloy or Forry (unlike stealth rock gens where passive damage is better, but you have a billion options to choose from), is no passive damage.

Let's not talk about spikes Smeargle or Qwilfish.

For those reasons, I don't think you made a controversial pick.
 
Primeape and Magmar for D Rank Probably I am not the only one who thinks this, but hasn,t the time to make a new, updated thread for this VR arrived, now that Lavos won,t be blessing us with his GSC skills ( :blobsad: ) ?
 

Heika

formerly HKT
Primeape and Magmar for D Rank Probably I am not the only one who thinks this, but hasn,t the time to make a new, updated thread for this VR arrived, now that Lavos won,t be blessing us with his GSC skills ( :blobsad: ) ?
the VR was litterally updated this month, lavos being ban and host doesn't mean it can't be updated anymore
 
Where is granbull in UU (rank D or lower)? It's a staple in that tier as it has the unique role of healing but potentially being a setup user. I don't necessarily know it's usage stats but I can definitely see it's malleability, decent bulk and good attack to be of great help. Consider that in the lower tiers you can really tell the lack of offensive power when using rest talk and you might want to have a cleric that can deal good chunks of damage.

Im not an expert at OU play, or pokemon in general, but i have always struggled to understand the value of Cloyster, so could someone explain to me why its rated so highly as it is?

Boom+spikes are obviously very valuable, but that aside.....
I never liked that thing in any battles i have used it, its a physical wall with ice typing, its a water type with garbage special defense, for me it sounds like the worst of both worlds.
The fact that it can die from a single non-STAB thunderbolt is just sad, even with such glaring weaknesses, its still that good?
which non-stab thunderbolt are you talking of?
I think cloysters advantage comefrom the fact that it can safely switch in on some of the more passive mons, while also threatening them. It has the option to rapid spin, win spikes wars against most forretress that don't pack gigadrain, and force out steelix or ground types for free spikes. It has the option to use clamp which in conjunction with explosion can spell death for slower mons (I am not sure about this last one because I don't really use this set). It baits in zapdos and raikou so you can 1)double into something/predict 2)explode 3)use toxic 4) use ice beam. It's speed is actually enough for it to pose a threat to lots of things which give lax trouble. It can beat steeltypes in 1v1, can threaten rock and ground setup users while still threatening to explode. These are all things that forretress can't hope to do.

This list is meant to show each and every Pokemon that is considered viable in the GSC OU metagame, and rank Pokemon according to how great of a niche they fill, in addition to how effective they are under varying circumstances. I'll concede that most of the Pokemon in D rank would not be a great pick to round out a team for SPL. However, NONE of the Pokemon on this list are strictly outclassed by another Pokemon in every sense and in every scenario. That makes them worth keeping, for the sake of being fastidious if nothing else.
I am sorry. I must not have taken into consideration that when treating a viability ranking of OU it doesn't descend.
As for my comment on Granbull perhaps there might be something worth considering?
 

Heika

formerly HKT
granbull being a staple (or not) in Uu really has nothing to do with it’s viability in OU. Mons can be trash in their tier and have a small niche in the higher one, and mon can be absolutely dominating in their tier and not having the slightliest niche in the upper one.
If you wanna talk about UU viability, here is the place: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gsc-uu-viability-ranking-thread.3636234/
If you still want to argue about Granbull deserving a rank, I think you should give explanation on his niche in the tier not just justify it by its UU viability.
 
granbull being a staple (or not) in Uu really has nothing to do with it’s viability in OU. Mons can be trash in their tier and have a small niche in the higher one, and mon can be absolutely dominating in their tier and not having the slightliest niche in the upper one.
If you wanna talk about UU viability, here is the place: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gsc-uu-viability-ranking-thread.3636234/
If you still want to argue about Granbull deserving a rank, I think you should give explanation on his niche in the tier not just justify it by its UU viability.
I know. Sorry. That was my b. I got mixed up.
 

Earthworm

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 6 Championis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion
RoA Leader
I am sorry. I must not have taken into consideration that when treating a viability ranking of OU it doesn't descend.
As for my comment on Granbull perhaps there might be something worth considering?
If you mean Granbull in OU, it might be worthy of consideration with something like Curse Return Lovely Kiss Roar. Its special bulk is really awful though, Zapdos can do up to 64% with Thunder. It would probably need paralysis support at least (but not on Skarm..), maybe Light Screen support to be really effective, which is very limiting. LK is definitely the differentiating factor between Kanga and Ursaring which can perform similar roles. As for Heal Bell, it's illegal with LK and Granbull probably lacks the bulk to pull it off in OU.

If you meant UU, definitely go to the UU VR thread.
 

Diophantine

慈陰
is a Tutor
Golem B -> A-
Our beloved friend Mr. Golem is becoming more and more viable as time goes on. People are running spin more even on offensive teams and his qualities are really showing. Of course he still has the same weaknesses, and people are trying to run coverage like Surf Tar and Surf Lax to catch him out, but surely that is a testament to how important he is. Teams with Fire Lax get spun on easily, which is important since we've seen quite a bit of STalk Fire Lax due to Jynx's popularity, and he wins the Spikes war vs Toxic'd Cloysters. I think B is too low for a mon that changes the way we think about the Spikes war.
Houndoom C+ -> B-
I've been a fan of Houndoom for some time, and I think people are starting to see its merits in the current metagame. It has the strongest Pursuit in the game and is not 4x weak to Dynamic Punch like Ttar. The ability to trap the likes of Jynx, Missy, Eggy and Gar is incredibly important. It can force Pursuit 5050s with Cloyster, trap Skarmory for some chip damage, and its STAB Fire Blast (doing 24.8 - 29.2% to Snorlax) can come in handy with its punch and burn chance. It only needs Fire Blast and Pursuit, and its last moves are customisable. Some people run STalk to absorb sleep. I don't like this as it means you can no longer trap. Some run Toxic or Thief, which can be really helpful for wearing down incoming Suicune / Raikou / Snorlax. Counter can catch some things by surprise, and Roar can shuffle in something to trap. While still a niche pick, I think it fairs a lot better vs the current metagame than anything else in its current rank, and thus deserves to move up.
 
Last edited:
I know that they're low on the tier list but what're the reasoning for the following 'Mons being ranked:


-Hitmonlee
-Pikachu
-Crobat
-Mr. Mime
-Blastoise (seems like discount Starmie)
-Qwilfish
 
I know that they're low on the tier list but what're the reasoning for the following 'Mons being ranked:
-Qwilfish
Quilfish is a spiker that gets curse and sludge bomb. It's immune to Toxic and it can check Machamp and Heracross. It does see play every once in a while, so it does deserved to be ranked.
 

Heika

formerly HKT
Can't talk for some of those mons but sevi said it all for qwilfish
And pikachu got both the highest atk and SpA stat of the tier thanks to light ball, it got a decent move pool too butit is really frail so....

Regarding the Stalk flame lax mentioned by Dio, I'd just like to mention that normal moves do more to jynx than any fire move coming from lax and that even eq deals as much damage as fire blast to jynx. It's still true that golem abuses that set but I've seen a lot of people thinking it's the best answer to jynx, when mathematically, it's as good as stalk EQ (which is not abused by golem the same) to check jynx.
 

FriendOfMrGolem120

aka. FOMG
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a defending SPL Champion
Moderator
-Hitmonlee: quick fighting type with access to Reversal, Swagger, Substitute. Example replay
-Pikachu: strongest Thunder in the game due to Light Ball. Also access to Sing and Surf
-Crobat: learns Swagger/Confuse Ray, Substitute, Screech, Mean Look to function as a fast trapper
-Mr. Mime: really great movepool. It can function on some fullpass teams. Example replay
-Blastoise: The combination of Rapid Spin + Mirror Coat is unique (Tentacruel can't have both on the same set). Also has access to Haze. But honestly, I don't really know why someone would use this in OU or if it has some other niche that I didn't spot.
-Qwilfish: can pressure Forretress without being weak to Toxic/Giga Drain. Also an okay check to EQ-less Machamp as already said. Faster than Cloyster so you don't have to worry about losing a speedtie and getting exploded on before you can setup Spikes should you decide to switch Qwilfish in against an opposing Spiker.

Most mons in the D-Rank are pretty bad overall and are just ranked because they have a theoretical niche.
 

Diophantine

慈陰
is a Tutor
Regarding the Stalk flame lax mentioned by Dio, I'd just like to mention that normal moves do more to jynx than any fire move coming from lax and that even eq deals as much damage as fire blast to jynx. It's still true that golem abuses that set but I've seen a lot of people thinking it's the best answer to jynx, when mathematically, it's as good as stalk EQ (which is not abused by golem the same) to check jynx.
Vs Jynx and (kinda) Golem, you're right. However, Vs Skarmory and Forretress, STalk EQ Lax is kinda dead. Less important, but a burned Golem is a dead Golem.
 
Golem B -> A-
Our beloved friend Mr. Golem is becoming more and more viable as time goes on. People are running spin more even on offensive teams and his qualities are really showing. Of course he still has the same weaknesses, and people are trying to run coverage like Surf Tar and Surf Lax to catch him out, but surely that is a testament to how important he is. Teams with Fire Lax get spun on easily, which is important since we've seen quite a bit of STalk Fire Lax due to Jynx's popularity, and he wins the Spikes war vs Toxic'd Cloysters. I think B is too low for a mon that changes the way we think about the Spikes war.
Houndoom C+ -> B-
I've been a fan of Houndoom for some time, and I think people are starting to see its merits in the current metagame. It has the strongest Pursuit in the game and is not 4x weak to Dynamic Punch like Ttar. The ability to trap the likes of Jynx, Missy, Eggy and Gar is incredibly important. It can force Pursuit 5050s with Cloyster, trap Skarmory for some chip damage, and its STAB Fire Blast (doing 24.8 - 29.2% to Snorlax) can come in handy with its punch and burn chance. It only needs Fire Blast and Pursuit, and its last moves are customisable. Some people run STalk to absorb sleep. I don't like this as it means you can no longer trap. Some run Toxic or Thief, which can be really helpful for wearing down incoming Suicune / Raikou / Snorlax. Counter can catch some things by surprise, and Roar can shuffle in something to trap. While still a niche pick, I think it fairs a lot better vs the current metagame than anything else in its current rank, and thus deserves to move up.
Houndoom can viably run miracle berry, if the intent is to get the most out of trapping psychic and ghost types like exeggutor and jynx. Golem, beyond the fact that it is an excellent spinner has access to common rhydon set curse rs roar and eq to catch opponents by surprise. However, the fact that rapid spin and rock slide are incompatible makes one set rule out the other, not to mention it also the fact that such a choice also means renouncing to one of Golem's other key moves in Explosion.
 
However, the fact that rapid spin and rock slide are incompatible makes one set rule out the other, not to mention it also the fact that such a choice also means renouncing to one of Golem's other key moves in Explosion.
Golem can still take HP Rock if it wants to run Rapid Spin with Rock STAB, and could technically be used without Rapid Spin to trade 5 BP and flinches for 100% accuracy and 8 more PP, so the presence of Rapid Spin doesn't necessarily rule out any sets. Rock Slide definitely rules out Rapid Spin though.
 
Golem can still take HP Rock if it wants to run Rapid Spin with Rock STAB, and could technically be used without Rapid Spin to trade 5 BP and flinches for 100% accuracy and 8 more PP, so the presence of Rapid Spin doesn't necessarily rule out any sets. Rock Slide definitely rules out Rapid Spin though.
The thing you mentioned about hp rock over rapid spin is something I noticed in UU and NU while I was making some videos on this tier with graveler. Definitely worth it in a war of attrition (especially considering the luck I have with 90% accuracy moves RIP)
 

Earthworm

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 6 Championis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion
RoA Leader
It's time to update the GSC OU VR post-2020 SPL. Please use this link to submit your rankings. The form will be open for about two weeks.

Please note, I've conducted an exercise to reduce the number of Pokemon in the form according to majority opinion in another survey. The following Pokemon (hopefully) do not appear on the form despite appearing in last year's VR: Poliwrath, Tauros, Raichu, Electabuzz, Lanturn, Crobat, Mr. Mime, Hitmonlee, Slowking. If you think they should be re-added, please enter them in the final question along with their rank. There will be a minimum threshold of votes to re-add.

Additionally, I was pretty much forced to de-randomise the list this time because the form was extremely time-consuming to fill out if it was randomised. Please give a lot of thought to your rankings before clicking the submit button regardless!

If you want to post your ranks and potentially reasoning for them, please fill out the form first and then you can optionally ask me to export them with sprites/numbers for you to organise in a post.

Let me know if anyone has any questions.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 3)

Top