Harsha's List


Rest In Beats
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-This thing basically does the same thing it always did.
-I'm not so sure about the Thunder Wave set, maybe it should be deleted altogether? It seems to me that Jirachi does this better, albeit with more reliable STABs than Sucker Punch but without Pursuit.
-Stealth Rock in OO or AC.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - No; SCMS should do the trick.

-Swords Dance is pretty much outclassed by Terrakion. Cobalion should be playing to its strengths, most notably its large Defense.
-Reword the overview so that it doesn't sound like BW is new anymore.
-Add Stealth Rock.
-Volt Switch mentions would be great.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - Probably

-Still a fine Pokemon for sun teams, but you need to make it clear that Donphan makes the team even more rain weak, so you should definitely be using this with a Venusaur or something.
-I generally am not a fan of Donphan outside of sun, but it has its merits.
-Does its job and nothing more.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - No -- not really much to add

-Nothing new, but we need to make mentions of the faster threats in the metagame -- Tornadus-T and all the new Choice Scarf Pokemon.
-Move 4 HP EVs -> SpA for consistency on the CM set.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - No, just some edits to checks and counters.

-Roost + Stealth Rock + Poison Heal = YES
-Increased rain usage hurts it, but its role is unchanged.
-We can probably combine the Substitute and defensive sets; they're really similar and even have the same spread. AcroBat should be above Swords Dance imo, or we could even go as far as to slash Swords Dance on the defensive set. They play similarly enough to merit a merge imo, but if we want I'd be fine to have Swords Dance with its own set. Defensive and Substitute are generally the same, though. Either way, editing needs to be done here.
-Read what Mr. Doughboy had to say and decided that with the addition of Stealth Rock and Roost, SubToxic should be Substitute + Protect (Roost is an option as well), while Stealth Rock and Roost will go on the defensive set.
OU Worthy - Of course
Revamp? - Yes

-Greatly affected by rain usage.
-I always find it to be worn down very quickly. Generally, I'd say only use it in the sun. Infernape is way too dependent on a lack of rain to be run on weatherless, and it's so frail that sand will only wear it down quickly, with Life Orb recoil to boot.
-Still a good Pokemon with proper support.
-Iron Fist + Thunder Punch + Fire Punch
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - Getting a revamp.

-Bring up Keldeo for sure.
-Mention how it works well on rain offense teams, and how it provides a makeshift Keldeo check. Psyshock is a must here.
-I think the offensive set does better than the Choice set in this metagame, and the ability to switch moves against Tyranitar and stuff is huge. I'd like the order to be offensive -> Choice -> Calm Mind -> Dual Screens.
-Mention how the new Tornadus-T outspeeds and does major damage unless it's Scarf Latios.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - SCMS edits ought to do it

-Scarf set seems a bit outclassed, but I'll talk to QC about that.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - YES finish the update

-Generally unchanged -- it does its job and nothing more.
-Trick Room set looks a bit shallow, so maybe some explanation is necessary there.
OU Worthy - Yeah
Revamp? - Nah, but maybe we can add a bit more to the Trick Room set? We generally don't want fluff, but that thing is short. We should also talk about Keldeo and Breloom in the checks and counters. Analysis is a bit outdated, but not too important, so it doesn't need a full-scale revamp.

-Like most sun Pokemon, it took a hit with rain's boost.
-I usually run a 252 / 4 / 252 spread...can we make that the main one? Sawsbuck really doesn't take hits well anyways.
-Nothing new really, as SCMS edits should fix it.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - No, we can just edit this.

-Best counter to Keldeo hands down.
-Talk about Regenerator cores with Amoonguss.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - Yes

-The analysis is generally fine imo, but new threats such as Tornadus-T and Keldeo need to be mentioned. Also defensive Amoonguss can come in on Close Combat and threaten with status or Giga Drain.
-Stealth Rock should be OO imo -- we can add a Stealth Rock set but I don't think it's good enough. Will definitely test though
OU Worthy - NOPE (duh)
Revamp? - Nah, but we can edit a bit.

-Generally nothing new aside from rain's new prominence.
OU Worthy - Yes
Revamp? - Nah.


pushing back the tide
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For Gliscor, I think it would be worth mentioning that 244 HP EVs maximizes Poison Heal recovery and frees up some EVs to be used somewhere else. I'm also questioning the viability of the Baton Pass Gliscor on-site. It seems to be outclassed by Smeargle and other Pokemon entirely dedicated to Baton Pass. I don't have much else to say.
the set was recently qc approved, it's a mixture of both being able to be a defensive pivot and the ability to gain momentum via baton pass, which has the perks of being able to pass SD's
I remember when I wrote BW Cobalion, I tried to get a defensive set and Volt Switch as main Sets, but they were both rejected. Now, there's a defensive set on page (lol) and I kinda feel trolled by that..

However, as a Cobalion player since day 1, I know enough about him and currently it's best set is probably Close Combat / Hidden Power Ice / Volt Switch / Taunt
Along with great typing and speed in can prevent many setups and gains momentum for the team, while resisting both Ice Shard and Extremespeed and is able to survive TechniLooms Mach Punch quite comfortably.

Like always, Tornadus-T is just causing too much trouble lately, but he nerfed pretty much every Fighting type to some extend.


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Ice Shard needs a big slash on the defensive Rapid Spin set. Many teams use it as a secondary dragon check, including Sun. IMO the main set with Ice Shard should be the alternative spread mentioned: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def. So that Ice Shard isn't weaksauce and can OHKO Dragonite most of the time after two SR switchins.


Please mention Heal Bell as an introduction into Espeon's movepool and try to incorporate in a Utility set. Often the things it comes in, such as hazard setters, are forced out so it gets a chance to pull it off. It makes a nice cleric for more offensive teams (as silly as that sounds).


I honestly think that the Substitute set should be SubToxic alone. Substitute's biggest perk was the ability to be able to take on and take down Rotom-W in some capacity by outstalling its Hydro-Pumps if it got a Toxic off on it. As far I am concerned Taunt with Substitute is useless on it and you just have a Gliscor that accomplishes nothing other than lol PP stalling. It can't touch anything because all it has is an uninvested Earthquake which is weak. Ice Fang falls into a similar boat. Other than 4x weak Dragons, it just doesn't hit anything hard enough to warrant a slash. Some dragons you are better of hitting with Toxic than Ice Fang.

That said they shouldn't be merged. The defensive set would become more akin to the Britscor set used in Gen 4 and could find a slash for Stealth Rock.


Ugh Metagross wants an update so badly but never gets it. It has had a sad history. Anyway there are a couple of things that need to be ironed out about it. For starters Trick+Iron Ball works on a mechanic that work improperly in the simulators. Skarmory isn't hit supereffectively by Earthquake. It has been confirmed here. Second the Choice Band or an all out attacker set without CB should be first. There are simply much better and much more used Stealth Rock setters out there. Most sand teams use Tyranitar as there SR setter and rain utilizes most Ferrothorn. SR Metagross really only finds itself used on balanced teams which receives heavy competition from Heatran.


be the upgraded version of me
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ugh, why hasn't Metagross been updated yet - it had 2 revamp attempts x_x;; Berserker Lord smh. We pretty much just need Berserker Lord's skelly written and uploaded. Some relevant changes of BW2 should be included into that skelly.


It's all coming back to me now
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Bisharp- I kinda want to delete the Thunder Wave set, even tho I kinda like the set as it looks neat. Thunder Wave / Pursuit / Sucker Punch can be pretty frustrating to play around, but I just don't think the set works in practise. Its running quite a lot of Special Defence (idk what for) and its still pretty frail. I might give it a re-test, but as of now im leaning toward a deletion.

Cobalion- Revamp this baby. I think a few of its offensive sets need to be re-tested, more specially focused sets given a try (like the one with Volt Switch that Husky posted), and SR should prolly be given a mention somewhere.

Espeon- Doesn't need a revamp, but Trick should get more of a mention since its now legal with Magic Bounce. I would also want Sun CM to be above "normal" CM since from experience its better.

Terrakion - I both ran into (and got raped by) and tested Sash Terrakion with SD / SR / CC / SE. I believe Taylor used it a fair bit but I really think it deserves more than an OO mention, maybe AC somewhere or possibly a set on its own. Terrakion forces a lot of switches, so it can easily find the time to set up Stealth Rock, and id like the analysis to reflect this.

Everything else I agree with in the OP I think.


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~ Most likely needs another playtesting in this new metagame to make sure it still holds up.


~ Dual Screen should have Baton Pass slashed in the 3rd slot imo. The only worthwhile Hidden Power slashed is Fire, imo. Everything else can be AC mentioned.

~ Baton Pass should have Substitute slashed before HP Fighting. This Espeon is not meant to sweep, but simply rack up multiple CMs to pass to a recipient. Substitute would block Dragon Tail, Clear Smog, and also allows Espeon to safely BP to its recipient.


~ Substitute - yea, remove all the slash on the fourth slot and make Toxic the staple move. This set may deserve a faster Spread.


~ Also worth mentioning its ability to check Thundurus-T, not simply Keldeo.


~ Defensive Duck may want to mention HP Fire if it wants to trap and remove Magnezone.

~ OTR Porygon2 wants Download as its ability for a potentially free 1.5x boost. HP Fire > Recover so it's not walled by Ferrothorn. Tri Attack may be able to be slashed with Ice Beam for a solid STAB move, which would deal more damage to mons like Rotom-W & Reuniclus.


~ Any extra HP helps; I'll keep that spread as is. A max / max spread can be mentioned in AC just in case it faces another Sawsbuck.

~ Probably delete the BP set, since Sawsbuck is pretty much used as a SD Sweeper all the time.


~ The analysis seems well-written (iirc SJCrew wrote this), so I'd probably keep the analysis largely unchanged. Maybe some tweaking with defensive spread and a large mention of its ability to check Keldo, but nothing major, imo.


~ Remove Sacred Sword on CB set for EQ

~ Remove Sacred Sword on Scarf set for EQ.

~ Actually there's a SR set that has been pretty nifty. May deserve its own set.

~ Move SubSD above Double Dance; Substitute easing prediction and protection from super-effective priority are major advantages. Double Dancer is mostly a relic from Excadrill era, imo.

~ No major revamp; just add the SR set.

Colonel M

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Choice Terrakion should probably incorporate Earthquake somewhere. Yes it sounds stupid, but it does help against Toxicroak. Considering its other options are few and far... well... you get the point.
Just something that I think is worth mentioning, Porygon2 makes a fantastic counter to Thudurus-T and Landorus-T, and can work against Tornadus-T. Being able to trace Volt Absorb and Intimidate and retaliate with a super effective Ice Beam is very helpful, I've found. I think that deserves a mention, as it makes Porygon2 much more viable nowadays.

Colonel M

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Thundurus-T calculations:

+0 Focus Blast to max HP / max SpD Calm Eviolite Porygon2 - 38% - 44.9%
+0 Focus Blast (no Life Orb) to max HP / max SpD Calm Eviolite Porygon2 - 49.2% - 58.3%
+2 Focus Blast (Life Orb) to max HP / max SpD Calm Eviolite Porygon2 - 98.4% - 116%

Yeah, let's just say that the only set that Porygon2 should really go towards is the Choice Scarf set (and maybe Choice Specs if you don't think Focus Blast is coming).

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