Pokémon Heliolisk

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heliolisk isn't anything like the other Electrics. It shares a STAB, but its speed tier, type coverage and resists are all different.
Its resists really don't matter that much at all, as its bulk is so pathetic, any reasonably strong neutral hit will OHKO it. Ghost resist is largely irrelevant, as its not a common attacking type, and the pokes that use it have good coverage moves that can OHKO Heliolisk. It's speed tier is also largely irrelevant, as the only notable thing 109 speed can do for it is outspeed Keldeo, while it's competition, thudurus i, mega manteric, hell even jolteon, outspeed it anyways.

If you want an electric type with interesting resists (and bulk to back it up) rotom-w is the way to go. It basically walls every important type heliolisk resists, with added ground immunity. This is at the cost of a grass weakness, but grass is an extremely marginal attacking type anyways.

This, is why it was rejected an OU analysis. Still hold that it will be decent in UU though.
 
Last edited:
The thing that makes heliolisk so special Is his immunities. I currently run heliolisk with dry skin and air balloon, Giving it three immunities in water, ghost, and temporary earth.

With his coverage in thunderbolt, surf, grass knot, he's plenty of chances to switch in and put a big dent in many teams. I even use my volcarona to lure water moves to heal him, increasing longevity.
 

Typhlito

One Active Dawg
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Its also good because of surf letting it hit counters much harder than jolteon or other electric pokemon that are stuck with a weak hp ice. Jolteon may have more speed but helio's speed is just high enough to outspeed everything it wants to outspeed anyway.

Its low bulk is not as bad as it looks since it can take a banded brave bird and ko it back since talon only runs enough speed to outspeed a max speed excadrill and cant afford to use flare blitz in fear of being outsped... Although talon's atk isnt really that high and its a resisted hit but still. Substitute doesnt care much about bulk unless its one of those 101 hp subs.
 
I'm surprised this thread's still open, no way will Heliolisk be OU or even UU in my opinion. It has a tiny tiny niche but so do a lot of RU/NU pokemon, I'd guess we'll be seeing him in OU only as much as we see pokes like Exeggutor or Victreebel.
 
With how bulky teams are set now I don't see Heliosk being a common sight in OU. Just a headache to teams who take it lightly. The move versatility can make it a little unpredictable but then I can't see it swinging its little dinosaur arms out of a pressurised corner it will eventually find itself in.
 
Ghost resist is largely irrelevant, as its not a common attacking type
Well, first that's not a resist, that's an immunity.

Next, just what? Ghost is possibly the single best attacking type in the game right now, since normal is immune and dark resists. Normal types are few and far between right now, and there are a limited amount of dark types that have any relevence (especially dark types who can afford to take a shadow ball- because, you know, mega absol and crawdaunt are great walls).

Coupled with the new trapping mechanics that make ghost types stronger, the introduction of incredibly strong new ghosts and the buff (steel no longer resists) to old ghosts, pokemon like Aegislash, Trevenant and Gengar are among the most common in the metagame right now. And each one is running STAB ghost-type attacks (except maybe Trev). Since ghost also gets two move perfect neutral coverage, Ghost type is one of the strongest and most widespread attacking types currently in the metagame. It's not "largely irrelevant."
 
Next, just what? Ghost is possibly the single best attacking type in the game right now, since normal is immune and dark resists. Normal types are few and far between right now, and there are a limited amount of dark types that have any relevence (especially dark types who can afford to take a shadow ball- because, you know, mega absol and crawdaunt are great walls).
Ghosts are very relevant as of now, but having ghost immunities are not. Aegislash has ghost stab and uses it sure. But heliolisk isn't going to enjoy coming into a sacred sword, which they all cary. In addition, it really cant do a whole lot to it. Gengar is rarer now that mega gengar is gone, but still outspeeds heliolisk and carries focus blast on almost all of its sets. If your really set on taking shadow balls, chansey and other normal types that have enough bulk to take any of the ghost's coverage moves are the way to go. Or you could use assault vest tyranitar if you want to cover Gengar.

Ghost type is one of the strongest and most widespread attacking types currently in the metagame.
Its reasonably powerful, which is true. Seeing as there are only two pokemon that really use ghost attacks in OU, and only one of them is very common, I'm going to go ahead and say that the next part is false.
 
From my experience it's better than most people give it credit for, but really would've been amazing with a normal STAB it could abuse.

I'm not asking for Boom Burst, or even Techno Blast terms of damage, but really anything in the 80-90 range would have been amazing. Round, Razer Wind (lol), and Hyperbeam just don't cut it.
 

Typhlito

One Active Dawg
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Even if it has a normal stab move, I dont think it would fit all that well in his move set since it offers little coverage that tbolt + surf doesnt already cover. I mean it could hit grass types harder than hp ice but thats about it.
 
Experimented with the air balloon set and it went quite well. Beats a few ground types with surf but usually ends up taking pretty hefty damage from their rock coverage. I feel like with substitute he might be able to make some things work with his 3 immunties with air balloon though, since he kinda has to take a hit to 2hko an opponent due to his relatively low spA for a frail mon.
Use balloon to get a free switch-in on any pokemon that runs single type water, ghost or ground typing (for instance jellicent, gliscor, choice locked azumarill or something) and then set up a sub to block their status moves.

Heliolisk @ Air Balloon | Dry Skin
Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

-Substitute
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Toxic / Glare

Providing you managed to get behind a sub, you can then use either thunderbolt or surf for pretty good coverage to deal with any frail switch-in. If they bring in a tank intending to absorb a hit you have the ability to toxic them. Heatran is dealt with reasonably with surf, and pokemon like gastrodon and quagsire who are immune to both will hate recieving toxic. Ferrothorn and M-Venusaur give absolutely 0 fux about this set though.

Sub damage taken is somewhat offset by the equal recovery of dry skin and the fact that heliolisk has little survivability anyway :(
 
This guy has been working really well for me.

Timid, 252 sp-a, 252 speed, 4 hp
Choice Specs
Volt Switch
Surf
Dark Pulse
Focus Miss

Basically, this guy can come in on water or ghost type moves, then hit back with a Volt Switch or Dark Pulse to deal with those threats. You can keep your opponent off guard with Volt Switch, as it will usually dent other pokemon in neutral switches. It's a very good check to Manaphy and Aegislash in my experience (just don't come in on a sacred sword), while being a great weapon to take on threats on the other team.
 
This thing is my favorite check to Azumarill. All Azu can do is switch or die. You can't straight-up switch in on Azu, because of Play Rough, Ice Punch, Superpower... But you can chance it if you predict the Belly Drum or Aqua Jet.
 

Typhlito

One Active Dawg
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Boomburst is the exception though. Forget coverage, STAB+Specs Boomburst is insane on Exploud. Imagine it coming from something with almost 20 more base SpAtk.
Yeah. A bunch of pokemon would love to have boomburst as a move including heliolisk but its not like he desperately needs it to be useful like exploud and chatot do. Helio would probably much rather have an ice move besides hp ice for hitting grass types. What he has now is just enough to let heliolisk do anything its able to do right as long as he has some support. He has sub for defense against switch in counters and to mess with aegislash wasting a turn to use kings sheild, surf for ground pokemon that isnt effected by electricity, and t-bolt/volt switch to hit everything else besides grass and dragons with good damage even tho hp ice can hit both. Not to mention glare for hax and focus blast/dark pulse. Imo, its arguably the one of the best delly drum azu counters as long as it doesnt switch into its other moves.

Im sure he will get a few more moves when the tutors are made available. (sure he would get moves like heat wave and if lucky, hyper voice) But as for now, he's good move-wise. Could be better, but its enough.
 
This is the set I run on my Heliolisk:

Heliolisk
Nature: Timid 252 SPATK/252 SPE/6 HP
Ability: Dry Skin
Item: Choice Specs
Volt Switch
Focus Blast
Hyper Beam
Surf

A lot of people seem to hate on hyper beam. It's foolish to use it at the beginning or mid-game, but late game... it's a life saver. Do you guys realice how much power a STAB Choice specs Hyper Beam from Heliolisk delivers? It destroys almost anything that doesn't resist it. I just had a very close match in which both me and my opponent were down to our last pokemon, he had a Dragonite and I had my Heliolisk. Went for the Hyper Beam and it won me the game. I've had a bunch of games that have ended like that. If you use Hyper Beam at the beginning, sure your opponent has the opportunity to set up on you, but regardless, its taking down 1 pokemon, it's like a semi-free explosion.

In my humble opinion, Heliolisk is not a bad pokemon at all, you just have to know how to use him properly. He shuts down Azumarill and can hit and run Aegislash with Volt Switch. It also needs the right team synergy to function well. Having both Volt Switch and Surf can really make the opponent really unsure if they should switch in their ground type to take the incoming "Volt Switch". Dry Skin is such a great ability to have on an electric type. I don't know, taking into account its major weaknesses: Mach Punch and pokemon that outspeed it (besides, Latios and Greninja there aren't that many popular OU pokemon who do) it's a reliable asset, at least it has been for me. I must enfasize on the "you have to know how to play him" part.
 
My favorite set for this guy.

Heliolisk @Petaya Berry
252 sp. atk / 252 spe / 4 sp. def
Nature: Timid
-Thunderbolt
-HP ice
-Volt Switch/Focus Blast
-Substitute

Pretty much a Sub + 3 attacks set. With a base 109 speed, max EVs and a + nature its likely your outspeeding most of the tier. Thunderbolt is for a good power 100% accurate STAB move. HP ice hits a lot of things that would otherwise wall Heliolisk such as Gliscor,Garchomp, and Salamence. And lastly either Volt Switch or Focus Blast. Volt switch keeps constant offensive pressure and is just relatively good in general while Focus Blast hits a lot of things hard that HP ice and Thunderbolt don't. Here are some calculations.

+1 252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 408-480 (87.9 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 354-416 (105.9 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 528-624 (177.7 - 210.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 344-408 (115.8 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 396-468 (110.9 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 440-520 (124.2 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



 
I fell in love with this lizard when I fought Lem an saw its neck umbrella thing xD

Anyway, I have been using a LO set on a rain team, which, in combination with Thunder, has a pretty surprising amount of raw power. For coverage, I use Surf, HP Ice and Grass Knot.
I know this move seems redundant with Electric and Water, but it surprises Gastrodon pretty well (and doesn't bring miss fuuus as Focus Blast does)
 
Here is what I've been running:

Heliolisk @ Air Balloon
Dry Skin
252 Spatk / 252 Speed / 4 Hp def
Nature: Timid
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderwave

The idea for Heliolisk is a general special attack scout. Think of her as a Mienshao that cannot be paralyzed, and instead can take advantage of three immunities. It's fun to troll the shit out of certain water pokemon. Jelliscent being the best one to troll.
 
Here is what I've been running:

Heliolisk @ Air Balloon
Dry Skin
252 Spatk / 252 Speed / 4 Hp def
Nature: Timid
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderwave

The idea for Heliolisk is a general special attack scout. Think of her as a Mienshao that cannot be paralyzed, and instead can take advantage of three immunities. It's fun to troll the shit out of certain water pokemon. Jelliscent being the best one to troll.
Glare is better than Thunder Wave in every way.
 
I completely blanked on the fact that it got Glare. You get the point of the set up, right?
Yes, I don't think it's particularly good though, I find Heliolisk wanting for a boosting item (be it LO, Specs or even EBelt) to actually deal good damage, it has nice coverage moves and is fairly fast so thats good your set might struggle with Garchomp though as Grass Knot fails to reliable 2HKO it, and Chomp also commonly carries a Scarf, after SR it OHKOs with Dragon Claw or with Outrage without even needing SR.
 
Yes, I don't think it's particularly good though, I find Heliolisk wanting for a boosting item (be it LO, Specs or even EBelt) to actually deal good damage, it has nice coverage moves and is fairly fast so thats good your set might struggle with Garchomp though as Grass Knot fails to reliable 2HKO it, and Chomp also commonly carries a Scarf, after SR it OHKOs with Dragon Claw or with Outrage without even needing SR.
But that's where the Balloon comes in if he is scarf'd.

Balloon allows abuse of Immunities to Water, Ghost, and Ground-Type moves (While balloon is temporary, I find Heliolisk for avoiding prolonged combat, that is where the Volt Switch comes in. I can understand the desire for some extra power but I feel giving it more survivability rather than offensive power is a better choice. If I wanted an Electric Glass Cannon, I'd go with Jolteon.
 
But that's where the Balloon comes in if he is scarf'd.

Balloon allows abuse of Immunities to Water, Ghost, and Ground-Type moves (While balloon is temporary, I find Heliolisk for avoiding prolonged combat, that is where the Volt Switch comes in. I can understand the desire for some extra power but I feel giving it more survivability rather than offensive power is a better choice. If I wanted an Electric Glass Cannon, I'd go with Jolteon.
I was talking about Dragon Claw:
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heliolisk: 220-261 (82.7 - 98.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Jolteon doesn't have the coverage that Heliolisk has, which is it's main draw tbh as it's otherwise pretty much outclassed by Jolteon, Raikou and Mega-Manectric.
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Heliolisk's only use is on rain teams, where Pokemon such as Manaphy, Rotom-W, and Azumarill are incredibly hard to face. Heliolisk, unlike other speedy offensive Electric-types, such as Thundurus, Raikou, and Mega Manectric, can switch into Manaphy at will, as it has good enough special bulk to tank Ice Beam and Energy Ball easily, while being immune to Surf, which would fuck up the other Electric-types pretty bad. Same goes for Rotom-W, as Heliolisk is immune to Hydro Pump and resists Volt Switch while having Dry Skin to heal up the residual damage, and doesn't even care that much about WoW as rain heals as much as WoW does each turn, while Heliolisk can easily 2HKO Rotom-W with Thunder. Finally, revenge killing +6 Azumarill in rain is something that very few offensive Pokemon are able to do, and Heliolisk is one of them. To give you an example of +6 Azumarill's power in rain, Adamant Aqua Jet does 86 - 101.3% to 4 HP Latias, which is a 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, a Pokemon that is usually considered a good offensive check to BD Azumarill.

Heliolisk also has the usual advantages of fast Electric-types, being able to revenge kill Mega Pinsir and Talonflame locked into Brave Bird even after SR, although it would then die to LO recoil. Oh, and Surf means that Hippowdon is not such a big issue, a Pokemon that Thundurus struggles against, and not relying on Focus Miss to OHKO Mamoswine and Excadrill is sweet as well.

tl;dr The passive healing from Dry Skin and Heliolisk's ability to check some major threats to rain teams that other Electric-types can't are the only reasons that justify using this Pokemon in OU.

EDIT: @ Below, thx fixed!
 
Last edited:
Heliolisk's only use is on rain teams, where Pokemon such as Manaphy, Rotom-W, and Azumarill are incredibly hard to face. Heliolisk, unlike other speedy offensive Electric-types, such as Thundurus, Raikou, and Mega Manectric, can switch into Manaphy at will, as it has good enough special bulk to tank Ice Beam and Energy Ball easily, while being immune to Surf, which would fuck up the other Electric-types pretty bad. Same goes for Rotom-W, as Heliolisk is immune to Hydro Pump and resists Volt Switch while having Rain Dish to heal up the residual damage, and doesn't even care that much about WoW as rain heals as much as WoW does each turn, while Heliolisk can easily 2HKO Rotom-W with Thunder. Finally, revenge killing +6 Azumarill in rain is something that very few offensive Pokemon are able to do, and Heliolisk is one of them. To give you an example of +6 Azumarill's power in rain, Adamant Aqua Jet does 86 - 101.3% to 4 HP Latias, which is a 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, a Pokemon that is usually considered a good offensive check to BD Azumarill.

Heliolisk also has the usual advantages of fast Electric-types, being able to revenge kill Mega Pinsir and Talonflame locked into Brave Bird even after SR, although it would then die to LO recoil. Oh, and Surf means that Hippowdon is not such a big issue, a Pokemon that Thundurus struggles against, and not relying on Focus Miss to OHKO Mamoswine and Excadrill is sweet as well.

tl;dr The passive healing from Rain Dish and Heliolisk's ability to check some major threats to rain teams that other Electric-types can't are the only reasons that justify using this Pokemon in OU.
Total nitpick, but Heliolisk's ability is actually Dry Skin. They function similarly except Dry Skin chips away at HP by 12.5% in Sun and makes it 25% weaker to fire attacks. That's not very important obviously, since few players would take advantage of it / use fire moves on it. Unfortunately though, it can't OHKO Hippowdon with Surf, so it'd have to be on the predicted switch-in, whereas Thundurus can 2HKO physically defensive with LO HP Ice / 2HKO specially defensive with LO Grass Knot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top