Help a beginner!

Hello, everyone. My name is Tom and I am new to competitive pokemon. I have been working on this team for awhile now and I need some help. This team is for vgc and focuses on trick room. I would like to try to make this team a little less reliant on trick room and cover some of my weakness. Since I am new, one of my biggest problems is prediction but I do have a pretty decent understand of whatever pokemon does and somewhat of an understanding of speed tiers, advanced ev spreads, and the meta game. Without further ado, here is my team:

The setters:


Luther (Spritzee) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 240 HP / 220 Def / 48 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Moonblast
- Reflect
- Trick Room
- Aromatherapy

I decided to go with two different setters because I did not want to autolose because my setter has a bad match up. I rarely use both, but sometimes I need both because of their types. This is my best Garchomp counter and I use it over the next pokemon when they have a lot of dragons. I just started using aromatherapy over light screen and I am not really sure if I like it. These evens give unbanded 252 attack scizor .4% chance to 2hko spritizee, 8.6% for amoongus with sludge bomb to 2hko, and 25% to survive mawile's iron head with overall very good physical bulk.



Brunhilde (Trevenant) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 50
EVs: 224 HP / 28 Atk / 160 Def / 98 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Wood Hammer
- Trick Room
This is my preferred setter. Even though there is a higher chance she will faint, she seems to be much more bulkier because of sitrus berry coming back so often. 28 attack evs and adamant nature is to always ohko calm 252 hp/ 0 def rotom-w, and even with 252 hp/252 def bold I still ahev a 50% chance to ohko rotom-w. 160 defence is to ensure that Tyranitar's crunch is an 2ohko in sand. The rest goes to special defence for overall bulk. Every relevant special attack will ohko trevenet anyways. If I see rotom-w, she will almost always come because he gives me trouble other wise.

Sweepers:



Gretchen (Talonflame) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Flare Blitz

Often used as a suicide to take out something that threatens me a lot, such as amoongus, venusaur, charizard y, and random frail pokemon. Roost is mostly just filler and I figured it would be better than anything else if i wanted to heal and switch or stall out to win.


Helga (Mawile) (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 4 Def / 200 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
- Iron Head
- Play Rough

This set is from Ray Rizzo (expect i used sassy instead of calm and took the twenty speed ivs and out them in sdef) and it lets mawile be bulkier and take some super effective hits and still ohko or 2hko almsot everything.


Wilhelm (Tyranitar) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Protect
- Rock Slide

Another set heavily influenced by Ray Rizzo, but I made it quiet instead of modest. Rock slide still does its job without investment. I was using assault vest tyranitar but my team was too physical so I switched to try and reduce my reliance on physical attackers.

upload_2014-1-16_21-47-42.png


Walter (Rotom-Wash) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 8 SAtk / 132 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 29 Spd
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump

Final set inspired by Ray Rizzo. I gave him 29 speed because I wanted him to be still decently fast so I have something that's still kind of fast and that makes him just one point below regular univested rotom-w. I was using azumaril, but I needed more special attackers.

My threat seems to be Kangaskhan + a prankster because he becomes so big. My biggest concern is how can I adjust my speed to be faster but still stay safer under trick room. I mostly play just single games, but I do need suggestions for 2/3s. Thank you for all of your help, everyone!




These images are nto mine. I do nto claim ownership.
 

BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
Ok, why the hell are you using Spritzee?
And it's not a very good idea to have both Roost and a Choice Band on Talonflame.
Use the standard Will-O-Wisp, Sub, Curse, Leech Seed on Trevenant. It's standard for a reason; it works.
Mawile and Rotom are fine as they are.


Since you're going for a Trick Room team, these are the best Trick Roomers:
 
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Spritizee was able to be eved to be able to make more super effectives take another hit to kill it than aromatisse factoring in left overs.
What move should I use instead of roost?
That moveset for trevenat probably won't be viables in doubles, but I'll try it out.
Brozong is not usable in vgc.
 

BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most experienced in VGC, but personally I wouldn't run CB on Talonflame at all. I'd run a bulky Swords Dance Set with Roost.
 
All right, first thing is first. Build for one format. Not Singles, doubles, AND triples. You build strongly for one, or very very poorly for more. It's nice to run a similar concept, to make breeding a quicker process, but don't try to build for multiple formats, you're just shooting yourself in the foot there.

Otherwise: RATING

TFlame: That's a pretty typical set up, but lose the Choice Band and grab something else. Leftovers for more survival might be a good idea since TTar has LO. His defenses are crap though, so maybe give TTar an Assault Vest and toss this guy the LO.
I can see it working well in Trick Room for two reasons. 1) It runs on Priority, meaning even in Trick Room, you can still STAB Brave Bird at priority speeds. 2) It still functions well outside of the Trick Room as a standard Talonflame.
Doubles: It's Gale Wings that makes this guy sick, so this runs well on both I suppose, trade Roost for Protect in Doubles)

TTar: Looking, trade his LO to TFlame and give him a Vest and trade Protect in for Pursuit. His Attack is still pretty decent, so STAB Pursuit will still deal good damage. He becomes an awesome Special Wall to boot.
Doubles: Rock Slide for Doubles and Stone Edge for Singles (Easy switch, both TMs, no extra breeding)

Mawile: DUDE, put all those EVs into Attack. This guy only does one thing, but he does it with Zest and Bravado, and that one thing is HITTING LIKE A TRUCK! Survival of the YOU BECAUSE YOU JUST RAN A DUDE OVER WITH A TRUCK!
Sorry. For real though. Those EVs. They're mediocre. Attack and then HP or something (what ever you're scared of). Also, Adamant (or whatever is +Att -Speed).
Stats aside, typical set up more or less. Sucker Punch is great for when Trick Room dies on you, and Play Rough is the STAB of choice. I'd say drop Protect for Swords Dance or a coverage move, since Trick Room only lasts so long. Also, as decent as Iron Head is, grab another Coverage move. Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Fire Fang (For Coverage), and Swords Dance is the typical set up, but you don't really want to waste a turn on SD in singles, so Power Up Punch might be decent as it'll give you more coverage AND a buff.
Doubles: Same as above, 3 attacks (Play Rough, Sucker Punch, Fire Fang) and keep Protect. Protect is a great Doubles move, but in singles, it's only useful on Stall.

Rotom-W: Not really sure what's up with those EVs, but I'm not SUPER good at Trick Room stuff, so I'll just roll with it. Pretty standard "Lol Talonflame" set up that also provides good Status support and two STABs. Can't say I'd change much. Glad you aren't running TWave.

Trevenant: Yeah.

Reunicles...?: Spritzee? I see what you're trying to do here. But this goes back to what I said in the beginning about making one team for multiple formats. Aroma Therapy is great in singles. Aroma Veil is something to consider in doubles, but in singles, you'd want a better Pokemon to use Aroma Therapy. Even in Doubles, her defences are so bad that even a fully invest Eviolite won't really help all that much, and if you do, your attack is going to be a joke, and this pokemon is nothing but pure support, which is a detriment in singles AND doubles. Nice try with Spritzee, but this is all bad idea. If you want a Cleric, classic Chansey is a good idea (Heal Bell, Seismic Toss, Soft Boiled, Toxic/Wish) since she can heal all sorts of stuff and sit out well. You do need another Trick Room user though, and that's why I suggested Reunicles, since I've never ever seen a Trick Room team without one.

Overall: Your team synergy is pretty good, you cover yourself well. You really need to worry about different sets for different formats, and replace that Spritzee, and you'll be golden. Reunicles is a good idea, since you can toss him out in front of Stall and do all right (except when Dark moves are there), but things Like Gliscor and Rotom are your favorite targets. Since he's got Magic Guard, he can eat a status (toxic or Wow) and then you can protect your team from status effects with him for the rest of the match. Idk. Your call, obviously. Good luck. ^.^ Give my team a rate (sig below) if you have time.
 
Ill try those talonflame ideas but im afraid of trying to us boosting moves since rock slide is decently common and although I haven't checked I'm sure it will probably otk him. Choice band makes everything not resistant to brave bird an easy knock out which I really like. Life ord, sand, and recoil damage will make talonflame too vulnerable to even weak hits.

You are right about iron head. Maybe I'll try out rock slide for spread danage and it will help deal with fire types and scizor.

Taking out spritzee would make me too vulnerable to dragons, especially garchomp. Garchomp will one or two hit everything on my team but she will two hit him almost always and only lose around half her hp. My only other answer to garchomp would be mawile who is vulnerable to his earthquake so she needs tr up or she'll lose to him. Switching it to reniculous gives me more weakness and makes my setters weak to the same things things so that means neither of them would be good if they have a good answer to one.
Mawile still gets every ohko and 2hko with other evs and makes it bulkier according to Rizzo and my testing shows it to be pretty correct so I don't really see a need to change it.
I was running assult best tyranitar before and I definitely liked it. He is very good like that and I feel like I may switch back.
 
I'm not experienced at all with vcg but I am with mega mawile and your set is not great. You shouldn't be running protect. You have no toxic on your team and even with two users of will-o-wisp your team is far from a stall team. Mega-Mawile, as mentioned before, does best when it's hitting stuff hard late game. In trick room, I'd do this probably, as you don't have time to be playing around with pain split

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / Atk Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Knock off / Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance / Pain Split

As I said I really like the pain split set but in trick room SD is probably better. Fire Fang > Iron Head is something to consider as otherwise mega mawile gets walled by a lot of steel types, though in trick room you can run iron head for flinch hax. I'd go with knock off because you're gonna be 'outspeeding' most stuff anyway under trickroom, and sucker punch is pretty unreliable seeing as it's easy to predict and stuff can set up all over you. Alternatively, if you want to run a bulkier set, maybe this?

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Foul Play
- Play Rough
- Fire Fang
- Pain Split

There is a rest talk set but in trick room that seems way too slow. So yeah hope this helps.

Edit: Noob question here (maybe because I don't play VCG) but who is rizzo?
 
Ray Rizzo is one of the absolute best vgc players and has won worlds two or three times and has several other top cuts and wins at vgc tournaments. Sucker punch is for use outside of trick room or for coverage against things that resist stab attacks. Pain split and sword dance waste tr turns. What's the point of foul play when Mawile has one if the highest attack stats? It'll just be weaker using the target's attack stat.

Burn is to reduce attack stats to allow my pokemon to survive longer and the vgc meta is very physical so every team needs do intimidate/burn/reflect support.
 
Ray Rizzo is one of the absolute best vgc players and has won worlds two or three times and has several other top cuts and wins at vgc tournaments. Sucker punch is for use outside of trick room or for coverage against things that resist stab attacks. Pain split and sword dance waste tr turns. What's the point of foul play when Mawile has one if the highest attack stats? It'll just be weaker using the target's attack stat.

Burn is to reduce attack stats to allow my pokemon to survive longer and the vgc meta is very physical so every team needs do intimidate/burn/reflect support.
Lol I wasn't questioning your use of burn I was questioning your use of protect, which is wasting turns more than SD or pain split will ever be. Knock off is a really good option on a bulkier set because like I said it's much more reliable against ghosts or set up sweepers for whom sucker punch is your only decent move.

Foul Play is insane on the right mawile set as you don't need to invest in attack at all, so your attack is average, but you use your opponant's attack stat and then it's doubled because huge power. As you said VGC is very physical so mawile can come in on powerful physical threats, take a hit with it's defence maxed out, then foul play, using the opponant's attack stat and multiplying it by 2. It allows mawile to invest in other stats without seeing a power loss most of the time.
 
I use protect before I set up trick room, but what you're saying about knock off and foul play make sense. I didn't knock her ability would still double that attack stat. I'll do some damage calcs for those two.
 

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