SM OU Help breaking through 1400’s. Greninja/Kyurem Balance

[lewis1995]

Hi guys. I’m struggling to break past 1400’s on Showdown and was hoping you could rate this team and help me out. Also I haven’t quite figured out how to add sprites and stuff as I’m on Mobile at the moment, so please forgive me :(

Thanks in advance :)



Greninja-Ash @ Icium Z

Ability: Battle Bond

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Modest Nature

- Water Shuriken

- Dark Pulse

- Spikes

- Ice Beam



Modest Ash-Gren to come in a finish off weaker foes with Water Shuriken. I chose Icium Z here because it throws people a little off guard and if I’m honest I couldn’t think of another Pokemon on my team that would be better with it, apart from Kyurem, but the Choice Scarf is working better with him for now. I prefer Modest here just for the damage output. A lot of the time it makes it easier to get Battle Bond off because I can take out slightly fatter mons with the attack boost.



Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Teravolt

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

Naughty Nature

- Ice Beam

- Fusion Bolt

- Earth Power

- Iron Head



Kyurem-B is my mixed wallbreaker, although he’s much stronger on the physical side. With a Choice Scarf he beats a lot of other fast Pokemon, and people really don’t expect it, so they stay in and get OHKOed most of the time. Ice Beam for Stab, everything else for coverage and to combat its main threats.



Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite

Ability: Pure Power

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Ice Punch

- High Jump Kick

- Fake Out

- Bullet Punch



I’ve never used Mega-Cham before so I though I’d give it a go. The attack stat with huge power is insane, and it breaks through a lot of stuff. I have Ice Punch here mainly for Flynium Z Lando and to help the Zygarde Matchup. Bullet punch is nice for a bit of priority on the team, and is always good in conjunction with fake out to get them surprise KOs when he comes in Mid game.



Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe

Bold Nature

- Hydro Pump

- Volt Switch

- Will-O-Wisp

- Defog



Rotor is my Defogger as Kyurem hates Rocks. Will-O to shut down the bug physical attackers of the tier and plus he’s my main bulk for physical threats. Volt Switch is mainly for momentum and to help keep bringing in Kyurem to KO.



Magearna @ Assault Vest

Ability: Soul-Heart

EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe

Sassy Nature

- Fleur Cannon

- Iron Head

- Hidden Power [Fire]

- Volt Switch



I opted for Assault Vest Gearna here because I found originally my first draft team was quite frail so I wanted something that could pack a punch but give the team a bit more bulk and another defensive switch in to fall back on. I use HP Fire here to catch out M- Scizor mainly as Gearna is always set up bait for it.



Chansey @ Eviolite

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD

Bold Nature

- Seismic Toss

- Toxic

- Stealth Rock

- Soft-Boiled



Standard Sp.Def wall Chansey set. The aim with Rotom and her is to weaken the opposing team through stall and chip damage so my big hitters like Kyurem and Greninja can come in to finish off the rest. I also use chansey as my stealth rocker because it’s easy to bring her in against something she walls and set it up.

I find at the moment Gastrodon and Quagsire completely wall my team at the moment. Some advice with dealing with these Bulky mons would be helpful as well

 

[xOliver]

First of all, I would give greninja a darkinium-z, as that gives it a dark stab and not giving it an ice beam z move which would be weak compared to an a dark pulse zmove, get rid of spikes and give it hydro pump for extra stab as water shuriken will NOT cut it. Also, hydro pump slaps in rain :).
KyuB looks good so skip that, although maybe a choice band might be worth looking into?????//????
Third, get rid of bullet punch and put zen headbutt, PLEASE! It needs psychic stab.
Rotom and magearna look good but I would opt for focus blast or grass knot to kill your gastrodon and quaggie weaknesses.
Chansey looks great, other than that, great team!

 

[lewis1995]

Hi xOliver.
Thanks for the rate, appreciate it.
I tested the Choice Band Kyurem set but his speed is too low to benefit from it I find as his defences aren’t the best. Everything else you’ve suggested seems great, thanks for the help!

 

[xOliver]

Hi xOliver.
Thanks for the rate, appreciate it.
I tested the Choice Band Kyurem set but his speed is too low to benefit from it I find as his defences aren’t the best. Everything else you’ve suggested seems great, thanks for the help!

Kyurem really loses his true power w/o a choice band, with it he gets around 700 attack, giving him max speed allows to outspeed certain mons that might threaten your team.

 

[earl]

Kyurem really loses his true power w/o a choice band, with it he gets around 700 attack, giving him max speed allows to outspeed certain mons that might threaten your team.

Kyurem never runs Choice Band (no physical Ice STAB) it runs Life Orb/Z-Freeze Shock, but Scarf works. For your Kyurem I’d swap out Iron Head for Hidden Power Fire and give it maximum special attack instead of physical attack.

For Greninja I’d just run the standard Timid Specs set, Modest loses a lot of speed (outsped by koko even after transforming, outsped by Torn-T, etc).

I might do a full rate later

 

[Twilight]

Okay cool team bro there is definitely potential with it and I love the concept of kyurem-b being able to obliterate bulky grass and water types for ash gren to clean up late game. While the offensive prowess of the team is solid and you also have a pretty good defensive core I see a few minor issues with sets and a few pokemon changes.

Minor Changes:

- Firstly make Ash-Greninja Timid because it means you will outspeed koko when you transform which might be problematic if it isn't in shuriken range. And while yes you do miss out on some offensive power you can make up for it by running Choice Specs. This gives you an easier way to get your form. As for the moves I agree you need hydro pump though I would remove ice beam. While you do lose coverage to hit bulu, tang etc. You have have kyurem and other members on your team to deal with that. Spikes I think is pretty important as it can give you momentum by pressuring how much your opponent can switch and can put certain mons into kill range.

- As for kyurem I think it's very sub-par to run scarf on it, while it has it's niche advantages I wouldn't recommend it. In this case I'm going to suggest using Icium Z with freeze shock. This helps blow threw certain walls like mew and Clefable which greatly benefits your medicham. I'd run freeze shock over iron head as you have a good nuke for any fairy types. I'd also suggest a naive nature to be able to speed the with Pokemon like lele.

Major Changes:

- I don't think Chansey fits what the team needs and while it's a good wall it drains momentum too much on a BO team like yours. I am going to suggest running Gliscor. As of right now you lack a ground type to stop volt switch or any electric move and a good ground immunity. While yes Rotom has levitate it can't check a very big threat to your team being Zygarde. Gliscor will be our hazard remover as I plan to make another change. Gliscor also provides you with a status absorber and brings momentum to your team. This set's only offensive presence is earthquake so be wary of that though you have the ability to make momentum with U-turn.

- Now I would remove Rotom-Wash for Clefable which provides you with a stealth rock user and and answer to medicham/lopunny and other offensive threats like hawlucha and zygarde. Clefable is really beneficial for your team for this reason. I am going to suggest using Thunder Wave over Wish in this case because while Gliscor can check Volcarona to an extent it is still pretty threatening. This will stop Clefable being set-up fodder and you can also punish other offensive checks like Heatran, Hawlucha etc.

- While Magearna is nice for your team I feel like you really struggle vs Kartana, Pinsir etc. For this reason I am going to recommend Celesteela which grants you a check to said threats above but also Tornadus-T which Gliscor can't touch. You also keep your check to Lele and Alakazam to an extent though it is shaky.

- Finally I think you need to forgo Medicham for Bulu because you now need a good water and electric resist. It helps vs your gastrodon problem too and still has offensive presence. It also makes you match-up vs lele and modest Zam less shaky. I would run the bulky SD set to help break through more common walls. And item of choice is leftovers to better handle threats like Ash-Greninja.

I hope these changes help I know you can be weak to Volcarona though I have tried to mitigate that with T-wave on Clef, so keeping rocks on your field is important but the Pokemon doesn't see that much usage right now so I think you can play around it with doubles etc. Heatran can also be pretty scary but you can deal with it with Gliscor and baiting it in with SuperPower on Bulu. Kyurem and Ash-Gren also have coverage for it. I know I changed a lot of mons but I think it should help you climb higher.

Importable

https://pokepast.es/d60c03c3537efba4

 

[xOliver]

Kyurem never runs Choice Band (no physical Ice STAB) it runs Life Orb/Z-Freeze Shock, but Scarf works. For your Kyurem I’d swap out Iron Head for Hidden Power Fire and give it maximum special attack instead of physical attack.

For Greninja I’d just run the standard Timid Specs set, Modest loses a lot of speed (outsped by koko even after transforming, outsped by Torn-T, etc).

I might do a full rate later

I've always ran choice band just because he gets a ridiculous amount of damage.

 

[lewis1995]

Thanks everyone for the help, and especially Twilight for the full rate. Really appreciate the help guys. The changes mentioned I will put in and see how I get on. Thanks again :)

 

[lewis1995]

Twilight I’ve been using this team with your adjustments, and the improvements are great! The only thing I’m struggling with slightly is opposing Celesteela. Any ideas with dealing with this? I’ve been using Kyurem-B’s Subzero Slammer. See below Calc.

Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 321-378 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I find that the issue is that I may need to use Kyurem’s Z-Move against other Pokemon, especially to beat stuff like Clefable. Is there anything else I can use that’s more reliable to beat it, as it’s a nuisance.

I’ve been thinking of potentially running a bulky Zapdos set instead of Gliscor, as I then have the Electric presence to deal with it easier, and it can’t do much back to me.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Volt Switch
- Defog

The only thing is I then miss out on the ability to block volt switch, which has been working brilliantly for me so far. I’m stuck. But also by running a similar set to Gliscor I lose offensive presence outside of Electic STAB.
Thanks again for all your previous help. Sorry for being a nuisance :(

 

[xOliver]

Twilight I’ve been using this team with your adjustments, and the improvements are great! The only thing I’m struggling with slightly is opposing Celesteela. Any ideas with dealing with this? I’ve been using Kyurem-B’s Subzero Slammer. See below Calc.

Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 321-378 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I find that the issue is that I may need to use Kyurem’s Z-Move against other Pokemon, especially to beat stuff like Clefable. Is there anything else I can use that’s more reliable to beat it, as it’s a nuisance.

I’ve been thinking of potentially running a bulky Zapdos set instead of Gliscor, as I then have the Electric presence to deal with it easier, and it can’t do much back to me.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Volt Switch
- Defog

The only thing is I then miss out on the ability to block volt switch, which has been working brilliantly for me so far. I’m stuck. But also by running a similar set to Gliscor I lose offensive presence outside of Electic STAB.
Thanks again for all your previous help. Sorry for being a nuisance :(

I would trade volt switch for heat wave or hp ice

 

[Twilight]

Twilight I’ve been using this team with your adjustments, and the improvements are great! The only thing I’m struggling with slightly is opposing Celesteela. Any ideas with dealing with this? I’ve been using Kyurem-B’s Subzero Slammer. See below Calc.

Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 321-378 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I find that the issue is that I may need to use Kyurem’s Z-Move against other Pokemon, especially to beat stuff like Clefable. Is there anything else I can use that’s more reliable to beat it, as it’s a nuisance.

I’ve been thinking of potentially running a bulky Zapdos set instead of Gliscor, as I then have the Electric presence to deal with it easier, and it can’t do much back to me.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Volt Switch
- Defog

The only thing is I then miss out on the ability to block volt switch, which has been working brilliantly for me so far. I’m stuck. But also by running a similar set to Gliscor I lose offensive presence outside of Electic STAB.
Thanks again for all your previous help. Sorry for being a nuisance :(

Ash-Greninja breaks through Celesteela with ease and 2OHKO if rocks are up (This is pre-transformed Greninja I'm talking about) and Kyurem can press Fusion Bolt as well vs it but I understand it can be frustrating to beat. Getting a T-wave off would definitely help as Celesteela is a good clef switch-in. You can test out Life Orb Kyurem which might work quite well here as you can deal with celesteela a bit easier with fusion bolt as well as punish bulky steel types with HP Fire. The only thing you miss out on is a nuke and the ability to break through clef and mew, though Greninja can if Clef is low. The zapdos can work as a replacement but then you lose out on a Heatran switch-in which I don't support as that Mon is everywhere.

 

[lewis1995]

Thanks again for the help man. I think I will just try to play around it better. The team has been working wonders since your adjustments, and at the moment it’s probably best I don’t change it. I will for now just focus on keeping Gren health and using clef to get up a T-wave. Will definitely test the LO Kyurem-B though.

Thanks again :)

 

[Indigo Plateau]

Hey lewis1995! This is a pretty standard offense looking build you have with Pokemon such as Ash-Greninja, Medicham, and Kyurem. However, Pokemon like Chansey don't really fit the style of the team, and you also lack a Ground-type, which is very problematic in OU.

=========================

First, I'm gonna point out some specific threats so it can help us fix the team easier:

Your team lacks a Ground-type, meaning Electric-types such as Tapu Koko and Magnezone get to Volt Switch around freely against your team. These are usually paired with powerful breakers that can threaten your team, especially since your primary switch-in is Chansey.

Tapu Bulu is also a big threat to your team because although you can lure it with Greninja's Icium Z, it can tank one from full and recover most of its health back. It can beat Kyurem-B if it's not locked into a super effective move, and at +2 it's a huge threat to the rest of your team. Kartana can also clean up late game once your team takes prior damage.

Powerful Mega Evolutions like Mega Medicham and Mega Mawile lack switch-ins. Medicham can outspeed at least half of your team and spams HJK pretty freely, while Mega Mawile can also use Play Rough and wear down Magearna over time.

Zygarde is also a problem for your team due to no proper answer for it. Your team's best answer for it is Chansey, and you solely rely on Greninja and Medicham to revenge kill it (Kyu-B struggles because you're forced to click Ice Beam, making it easy to predict).

=========================

Below are the suggestions that I believe will improve your team:

>

Rotom-W is by no means bad in the current metagame, but I think the offensive nature of your team better suits Tapu Koko. Tapu Koko gives you a fast pivot for the likes of Kyurem-B and Medicham, and both of them have extremely good offensive synergy with it. The extra offensive presence helps out in beating Pokemon like Medicham, Mawile, and Zygarde, but it means that you lose out on your Ground-immunity, which will be patched later.

>

No Ground-type on your team is very problematic, and Kyurem-B is also a bad Choice Scarf user. Landorus-T, on the other hand, is a fantastic defensive pivot that can provide Speed support while completing the VoltTurn core for your team. Moreover, it gives your team the Ground-immunity that I removed earlier, and Landorus-T also definitely fits your offensive team more than Chansey did. Lastly, it gives you a soft check to physical attackers like Mawile, Zygarde, and Kartana.

>

Icium Z is a cool occasional lure for Grass-types, but having VoltTurn to lure these in + Kyurem-B in the back is much more effective. Instead, I believe you should make Greninja Choice Specs, as it's a more consistent set that provides consistent damage output.

>

Now that your Z-Move has been freed up, Kyurem-B can make for a very good user of it with Icium Z. It can help your team bust through fat Pokemon like Chansey and Ferrothorn, which is extremely helpful for both Tapu Koko and Greninja, and potentially help Landorus-T clean late-game.

Zen Headbutt > Bullet Punch
Bullet Punch is very situational and not nearly as useful as Zen Headbutt. Your team has a Choice Scarf user and priority from Ash-Greninja, so having Zen Headbutt as a secondary STAB attack is better.

Optional:

>

Your team has no Defog, and it also relies on a Choice Scarf Landorus-T to set up Stealth Rocks. I didn't want to remove 3 team members, but replacing Magearna with Ferrothorn could be really helpful, as you can give Ferrothorn Stealth Rocks and Landorus-T Defog while still having a solid answer to Ash-Greninja and Tapu Koko. I'll make this change as a second team version so you can try them both out and see which one you like best. Another alternative is changing Ladorus-T from Choice Scarf to defensive on the first build, but then you rely on double priority as your only Speed control.

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Version 1: (click me!)
Version 2: (click me!)

And that wraps up the rate of the team! I tried to improve all of your Pokemon's sets and the offensive synergy of the team while maintaining the structure the same. However, there are still some Pokemon which can be quite problematic.

can chip Magearna throughout the match (especially with hazards), and then your team lacks proper switch-ins for it, so keep Magearna and Landorus-T healthy. Similarly,

can also wear down Magearna/Ferrothorn, which are not as reliable as Chansey in walling it. Lastly,

becomes a much scarier threat without Rotom-W and Chansey, but luckily it doesn't get to come in for free against most of your team (Magearna can Volt Switch out, Ferrothorn can Leech and then go Greninja).

I hope you enjoy the team, and feel free to PM me with any questions!

 

[lewis1995]

Hey Indigo Plateau. Thanks for the rate. I’m currently running a bulky offence version of the team, which is working out really well. But I like what you’ve done with the team as more of an offensive take, so I will be testing this also. Thanks man