Help Convert 4th Gen Team

Deranged

With the new 5th Gen Pokemon added to the massive selection of Pokes to choose from, I have found it hard to take this change easily. What you see here is my good ol' 4th Gen team that has won me many battles and got me close to beating a few well known battlers, even if it was only 2 or 3 of them.

But with new threats like Excadrill and Conkeldurr on the prowl, I humble myself and ask anyone who can help me evolve my 4th Gen team into a wonderful 5th Gen team.

Extreme special thanks to LV, who was the one who rated the team that formed this one.

Here it is

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Heatran
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Rash
EVs: 172 HP/252 SpeAtk/82 Spe
Moves: Overheat/HP Grass/Stealth Rock/Explosion

Description: Heatran used to be my greatest anti lead in the very late days of 4th gen. He helped me put immediate pressure on teams utilizing Lead Machamp, and Defensive teams leading with Forretress or Skarmory. Offensive pressure is very important for teams like this, and Heatran provided that really well, right from the get go. 172 HP EVs helped switch in on random Rest Talk Rotom-A Thunderbolts on Stall teams, and a bunch of other neutral uninvested Special Attacks. Teams that used Lead Machamp always attempted to Dynamic Punch Heatran, but the power of max SpeAtk, Life Orb, and Overheat is so powerful it OHKOs Machamp before it can happen. Plus thanks to Machamp's No Guard, Overheat was guarateed to hit.


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Flygon
Item: Choice Scarf
Nature Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Moves: Outrage/Earthquake/U-turn/Thunder Punch

Description: The revenge killer of the team and Scizor's U-Turn partner. (Scizor will be mentioned later) With Flygon, I had an excellent way to revenge kill all Dragon Dance Gyarados variants, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Mixed Flygon. I found it pointless to run Jolly when the majority of the metagame was slower than Flygon with a Choice Scarf so Adamant helped with power. When someone got 1 Dragon Dance with Gyarados with either a Jolly or an Adamant Nature, Flygon was still fast enough with an Adamant Nature to outspeed and OHKO with Thunderpunch. Synergistically, Flygon and Scizor paired remarkably well as a U-turn duo, covering each other's weaknesses and being able to scout out dangerous threats to remove for Tyranitar's or Gyarados' sweep. Teams I've seen utilizing U-turn Flygon and Scizor apply and maintain pressure on the opponent, giving very little breathing room to the opponent.


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Tyranitar
Item: Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 HP/252 Spe
Moves: Dragon Dance/Stone Edge/Earthquake/Crunch

Desription: The good ol' Dragon Dancer. Quite dangerous once it set up. The Lum Berry is there so that it can take a status and freely Dragon Dance and then retaliate. The Jolly Nature allowed Tyranitar to outspeed Starmie and other Pokemon with a base Speed of 115 after 1 Dragon Dance.


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Shaymin
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpeAtk/252 Spe/ 4 SpeDef
Moves: Leech Seed/HP Fire/Seed Flare/Protect

Description: Shaymin provided an excellent check to Suicune and other Water-types, as well as being an annoyance to Stall in general. For example, I basically switch in on Suicune and 2HKO it with Seed Flare before it 2HKOes me with Ice Beam, and I can always recover health back via Leech Seed+Protect. Things like Infernape and Heatran love to switch in on Shaymin, catching them off guard with Leech Seed and switching to Gyarados/Flygon on the Fire-type attack will mean they will regain their lost health back, especially Gyarados who loses a chunk from Stealth Rock. I can use a bulkier spread too, speed is very important for this team, and so I used a max/max spread, to check the Offensive Waters and provide a fast Leech Seed.



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Scizor
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe
Moves: Bullet Punch/Quick Attack/U-Turn/Superpower

Description: As mentioned with Flygon, Scizor was a great U-Turn partner/scout and covered Flygon's weaknesses, same with Flygon so both work synergistically. I don't really find a lot of times where Quick Attack is handy although it has worked a few times so I would appreciate a tip on that if possible.


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Gyarados
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spe
Moves: Dragon Dance/Taunt/Waterfall/Stone Edge

Description: Ah yes, the Bulky Gyarados set. Between Shaymin+Gyarados I cover Stall really well, Shaymin taking on Rest Talk Rotom-A for Gyarados, and then Gyarados using Taunt+Dragon Dance to sweep the team. Gyarados easily walls Infernape, Lucario, and Heatran. When opposing Heatran try to Earth Power my Heatran, I switch to this guy and Dragon Dance to see what my opponent switches to. If its something that can stall and wall me like Vaporeon, I can just Taunt and do another Dragon Dance. Then I proceed to Stone Edge the thing. Gyarados really covers Heatran well and the Bulky set allows me to defeat stall, wall, cover Heatran, and sweep at the same time.
 
This is very hard to convert into a 5th gen. team because people don't know how you have played with it in BW. Please tell the community about it's success/failure and tell us what doesn't work, then you can rack up the suggestions. Hope this helps..

-The Tyranitar
 
With the nerf to Explosion this gen i would suggest replacing it with Earth Power to beat other Heatran & is a better option against option against Steel-types if Drizzle has been activated. HP Grass only gets notable coverage against the Water/Ground-types such as Quagsire, Gastrodon, & the even less common Swampert. In it's place you could run either HP Ice or Dragon Pulse. HP Ice does a ton of damage to the Dragon-types who are 4x weak & get nice surprising OHKOs on Gliscor & Landorus whereas Dragon Pulse hits Lati@s & Hydreigon for more damage since they're only 2x weak.

On Flygon[/B, i'd use Stone Edge over Thunderpunch seeing as you get better coverage & can still put a massive dent in Gyarados if it switches in.

Maybe a specially based mixed Tyranitar would work better since you have two choiced & two dragon dancers on this team already:
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252HP / 180SpA / 76 SpD (Bulk) or EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe (Power)
Sassy Nature(Bulk) / Naive Nature(Power)
-Crunch
-Fire Blast
-Ice Beam
-Superpower

Hope these changes bring you a little closer to your goal my friend.
 
I'd say that Gyarados wants Bounce over Stone Edge.

In Gen 5, Ground-types are more prominent, [Although most are hit harder by Waterfall]. Bounce also allows you to take down the myriad of Fighting-Types, as well as destroy Sun-based teams.

The extra Base Power, and the paralysis chance are invaluable to Gyarados in 5th Gen, especially with Flying being a decent attacking type.

Bounce helps against Ferrothorn too. You can Taunt it to force it to attack, then Bounce, to heal off damage from Barbs and it's worthless attacks. I've muscled through many Ferros using Bounce, and despite the free turn, as nothing is immune to Flying, not much likes to switch into a 85 BP, STAB attack from a Gyarados, with a 30% chance of Paralysis to boot.

You miss out on Thunderus and Rotom-W, but Gyarados has no business staying in against the latter anyway, and if you're faster than the former, you can OHKO it with Waterfall anyway. Both tend not to switch in due to Paralysis fears anyway.
 
If you use Tyranitar, first you gotta change its move set, since DDtar doesn't work this gen. (the moveset Astark recommended is good, but you can also use Choice Band or Choice Scarf). Second, you should get a sand abuser because otherwise you really won't help your team with sandstorm.

Another thing I would get is a Rapid Spinner, since your goal is a Gyarados sweep, it really won't like losing 25% of its HP right off the bat. Add to this Deoxys-S in our metagame, who can set up multiple entry hazards, your whole team will be easily KO'd (bar Flygon), with no-so powerful moves.

For those reasons, I recommend Excadrill for this team, who can Rapid Spin and become extremely fast in Sandstorm. Adamant Balloon or Jolly LO can work.

Even then, your team is kinda Conkeldurr weak. With Stone Edge, it can potentially beat 4 of your pokemon, which isn't really a good idea, even more if you think Shaymin won't like Drain Punch and Heatran is weak to Mach Punch. For that problem, Latios and Reuniclus can help.

Hope I helped.
 
Steeli said:
If you use Tyranitar, first you gotta change its move set, since DDtar doesn't work this gen. (the moveset Astark recommended is good, but you can also use Choice Band or Choice Scarf). Second, you should get a sand abuser because otherwise you really won't help your team with sandstorm.
Click to expand...

I just recently started using CB Tyranitar & i can vouch for it's uses. Easily Scoring surprise OHKO for people who think it may be another varient. If being locked into one move isn't your cup of tea Life Orb or Expert Belt can be used. The latter to bluff the choice item & hit the switch in expecting you to leave hard but i can't account for the amount of damage reduction you'll lose without the Choice Band.
 
Hey I really appreciate the rates despite the fact I didn't explain how it stands up to the current Gen.

First of all thanks Astark, Steeli, and Raikaria for the wonderful rates. So basically what your all suggesting is

Heatran = Replace HP Grass with HP Ice or Dragon Pulse. Replace another move for Earth Power (Which one though?)
Gyara: Replace Stone Edge with Bounce
Flygon: Replace Thunder Punch with Stone Edge
Add an Excadrill by replacing a Pokemon (Which one?)
Tyranitar: Change set to Mixed Tar, CB Tar, or Scarf Tar. (Based on Astark's recent discovery CB Tar seems better but I'd like more opinions)

With all those changes listed, are those what your all going for?
 
Deranged said:
Heatran = Replace HP Grass with HP Ice or Dragon Pulse. Replace another move for Earth Power (Which one though?)
Gyara: Replace Stone Edge with Bounce
Flygon: Replace Thunder Punch with Stone Edge
Add an Excadrill by replacing a Pokemon (Which one?)
Tyranitar: Change set to Mixed Tar, CB Tar, or Scarf Tar. (Based on Astark's recent discovery CB Tar seems better but I'd like more opinions)
Click to expand...

On Heatran Earth Power for Explosion because with the power reduction it isn't worth the kamikaze to lose it.
As for Tyranitar it comes down to sheer power (CB Tar) or versatility (Mixed Tar) for your choice.
 
Oh okay, thanks.

My final questions for now is that how would I put in Excadrill and are there any EVs I should change other than for Ttar as I now know what set to use for it?
 
Hello there, Deranged. The set I would put on your team would be this one:

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Excadrill @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -Sp.Atk)
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Return
- X-Scissor

This pokemon with this set make a good replacement for Flygon. Not only does he do his job perfectly, but also adds the speed your team needs (:
 
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