Gen 1 Hitmonlee (UU Mini Analysis) [QC 2/2] [GP 1/1]

[phoopes]

This is part of a project to get rid of the poor quality, misinformation-ridden RBY analyses from over a decade ago. These works are low-priority and should be treated as such.

[OVERVIEW]

Hitmonlee is a Pokemon that never sees the light of day in competitive UU play, though it does have a few strong points. Its base 120 Attack and access to the unique STAB move Hi Jump Kick seem appealing, as Hi Jump Kick 2HKOs physically bulky Pokemon like Kangaskhan and Omastar and even has a small chance to OHKO Persian. Its Speed also makes it faster than tier staple Dragonite and fellow Fighting-type Poliwrath. However, it just has too many flaws to really make use of its unique traits.

Firstly, all of Hitmonlee's attacking moves are either Normal-type or Fighting-type. This lack of coverage makes it difficult for Hitmonlee to damage a lot of Pokemon, especially Haunter, which is immune to all of Hitmonlee's moves besides Seismic Toss. Next, its Speed is only base 87, falling short of the magic base 100 benchmark that is so important for an offensive threat in RBY UU. Its insufficient Speed leaves it vulnerable to Tentacruel's Wrap as well as fast attackers like Dodrio and Kadabra. Therefore, Hitmonlee needs extensive paralysis support to work, and it's just not worth it when other Pokemon like Golem get more mileage out of such a strategy. Finally, its paper-thin defenses mean it has little chance of surviving any interactions. This is especially true for common Flying-, Psychic-, and Poison-type Pokemon, since they resist Hi Jump Kick. Pretty much the entire metagame can OHKO or 2HKO Hitmonlee whether or not they can hit it with a super effective move. For these reasons, Hitmonlee is best left on the sidelines and not used on your team.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Hi Jump Kick
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Counter

[SET COMMENTS]

Hi Jump Kick is Hitmonlee's most powerful attack, and is good for 2HKOing Pokemon that it outspeeds such as Omastar, Dewgong, and Golem. In addition, a miss only deals 1 HP of crash damage in RBY. Body Slam is used for some much-needed coverage and consistency, allowing Hitmonlee to deny switch-ins and spread paralysis without support from teammates. Seismic Toss lets Hitmonlee actually damage Haunter and force it to use Explosion earlier. Counter can net some surprise KOs on Normal-type attacks like Persian's Slash and Kangaskhan's Body Slam, or even a teammate's Explosion in the niche scenario where Hitmonlee is brought in right after to deal massive damage to a potential switch-in.

Other options for Hitmonlee include Meditate to increase its damage output, guaranteeing the OHKO on Persian and making an OHKO possible on Kangaskhan. Alternatively, Toxic can be used, as Hitmonlee outspeeds Dragonite and thus can stop an Agility Wrap sweep since Dragonite will take more damage from poison than it's worth dishing out with Wrap. Finally, Mega Kick can be used over Body Slam to deal higher damage to the many Pokemon that resist Fighting-type attacks in the UU metagame.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[phoopes, 96315]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

 

[Plague von Karma]

Solid, but a few things stick out to me.

Next, its speed is only base 87, meaning it falls short of the magic number of base 100 that is so important for an offensive threat in RBY UU.

You're absolutely right here, but you should explain why it's so important. Hitmonlee takes way too much damage from Tentacruel's Wrap while being slower, causing it to get put in Surf range before you can say "why am I using Hitmonlee".

Also, mentioning that Hitmonlee really needs paralysis support to work is worth it. It's just that it's so extensive that it's not worth it, especially when Golem gives more reward for paraspamming.

You should also really go over how explosive Hi Jump Kick can actually be, as it is the main draw to Hitmonlee. It's absolutely nuclear and deals massive damage to the Normal-types of the tier. Cite some 2HKOs on them, how much you chip Omastar, etc. Nothing is noted here and it really isn't doing Hitmonlee justice.

Its Speed stat, while not enough, does let it outrun some notable threats. The biggest one is Dragonite, which it can Toxic. It's not much, but it's there yeah?

Body Slam is used over Mega Kick for consistency reasons with its accuracy, as well as its chance to paralyze opponents.

Mega Kick isn't mentioned throughout the analysis, so it's not immediately apparent to me as to why it's brought up? Can't tell if it's a joke about Hitmonlee being the kicking Pokemon, haha. I'd say "Body Slam is used for some much-needed consistency, allowing Hitmonlee to deny switch-ins and spread paralysis without support from teammates" or something like that.

Counter can net some surprise KOs on Normal-typed attacks if Hitmonlee can actually manage to survive the initial hit.

I'd say cite some common users of Body Slam, or mention something like Persian. Or even how it can come in from Explosion to do the funny thing. There's a ton of depth to Counter and Hitmonlee can absolutely make use of it.

 

[phoopes]

Plague von Karma implemented! Should be looking a lot better now

 

[Plague von Karma]

In addition, what's nice about RBY mechanics is that even if you miss, Hitmonlee will only take 1 HP of damage, unlike later generations where the damage is much higher.

May be better to say it halves your HP in later gens, as it's always been that. I know it's a massive nitpick, but yeah lol

Seismic Toss is used primarily for Haunter so that Hitmonlee can actually do some damage to it

Like 2 STosses will often force Haunter to explode much, much earlier (293 HP), so you can prolly slot this in somewhere.

or even the niche scenario where Hitmonlee is brought in after using Explosion to use Counter and deal massive damage.

This isn't specific enough and the wording is a bit iffy. I'd say "or even the niche scenario where Hitmonlee is brought in after an Explosion to deal massive damage to a potential switch-in thereafter.

Other options for Hitmonlee include Double Edge for more oomph or Meditate to boost its attack, but these tend to fall flat due to Hitmonlee's lack of survivability.

These OOs aren't really sold very well. Meditate can make Hitmonlee really threatening and secures a good few KOs (+1 HJK guarantees Persian and 20.5% chance to KO Kangaskhan), it just sucks at getting the time to use it. As for Double-Edge, well, idk? You haven't sold it at all. I'd say show some calc comparisons to give the reader a visual on what they can do for Hitmonlee, and have them in their own paragraph. Add Toxic for Dragonite as well, since Hitmonlee is faster.

 

[phoopes]

May be better to say it halves your HP in later gens, as it's always been that. I know it's a massive nitpick, but yeah lol

If I'm reading mechanics correctly...

Gen 1: 1 HP of damage when crashing, no crash damage when used on Ghost-types
Gen 2: 1/8 of damage HJK would have dealt in crash damage, no crash damage when used on Ghost-types
Gen 3: 1/2 of damage HJK would have dealt in crash damage, no crash damage when used on Ghost-types
Gen 4: 1/2 of damage HJK would have dealt in crash damage, UNLESS it crashes due to using it on a Ghost-type, then crash damage = half of target's max HP
Gen 5 and onwards: 1/2 of user's max HP in crash damage

I guess the nitpick comes in my usage of "later gens." Because yeah, in the most recent half of generations it's always been the same. But because it changed in gen 2, again in gen 3, again in gen 4, and again in gen 5 I kept the wording more vague.

Like 2 STosses will often force Haunter to explode much, much earlier (293 HP), so you can prolly slot this in somewhere.

This isn't specific enough and the wording is a bit iffy. I'd say "or even the niche scenario where Hitmonlee is brought in after an Explosion to deal massive damage to a potential switch-in thereafter.

I'll implement both of those shortly after making this post

These OOs aren't really sold very well. Meditate can make Hitmonlee really threatening and secures a good few KOs (+1 HJK guarantees Persian and 20.5% chance to KO Kangaskhan), it just sucks at getting the time to use it. As for Double-Edge, well, idk? You haven't sold it at all. I'd say show some calc comparisons to give the reader a visual on what they can do for Hitmonlee, and have them in their own paragraph. Add Toxic for Dragonite as well, since Hitmonlee is faster.

I guess I didn't really feel the need to sell them all that well since they're not very good, hence why they only got half a mention basically. I'll expand a bit for Meditate but I'm debating dropping Double Edge entirely tbh. Good call about adding Toxic for Dragonite though, that'll go in

EDIT: I ended up just making another short paragraph for other options so everything is implemented except for the language about Hi Jump Kick's effect in later gens

 

[Plague von Karma]

If I'm reading mechanics correctly...

Oh yeah don't worry about that then lol, my bad.

--

Double Edge outdamages Body Slam, but deals recoil damage to an already frail Hitmonlee.

Again, there should be a relevant calc cited that can justify the use of Double-Edge. Is there a 3HKO that becomes a 2HKO, for example? Otherwise, it should just be dropped. I decided to do some checks myself, and the biggest selling point is a guaranteed 2HKO on Kadabra. In my opinion, you would want to cite this if you decide to keep it. I guess there's a 4HKO on Hypno too but that's 1 hit too little for my tastes. Outside of that, my masscalc didn't bring up anything notable.

 

[phoopes]

After some talk on Discord we decided to cut Double Edge entirely, as the only thing it really changes is the 3HKO to 2HKO on Kadabra. But that doesn't matter because Kadabra can switch in to Hitmonlee and outspeed and KO easily with Psychic so... yeah. Should be good to go

 

[Plague von Karma]

QC 1/2

 

[Volk]

I'm too lazy to do full QCs right now, so I guess I'll go through this one.

Its base 120 Attack and unique STAB move Hi Jump Kick seem appealing, as Hi Jump Kick 2HKOs physically bulky Pokemon like Kangaskhan and Omastar and even has a small chance to OHKO Persian.

Add "access to the" before the word "unique."

Firstly, all of its attacking moves are either Normal-type or Fighting-type, giving it little coverage; this means Haunter hard walls Hitmonlee outside of Seismic Toss.

Rewrite like this: "Firstly, all of Hitmonlee's attacking moves are either Normal-type or Fighting-type. This lack of coverage makes it difficult for Hitmonlee to damage a lot of Pokemon, especially Haunter who is immune to all of Hitmonlee's moves besides Seismic Toss." Technically, Bide and Counter can hit Haunter, but you can probably ignore those for now.

A base speed of 100 or more allows a Pokemon to tie or outspeed Tentacruel, meaning that Hitmonlee succumbs to being immobilized by Wrap and then swifty KOed with Surf.

Try: "It's insufficient speed leaves it vulnerable to Tentacruel, as well as other fast attackers like Dodrio and Kadabra." Short and sweet.

Finally, its paper-thin defenses mean it has little chance of surviving any interactions.

I'd consider adding a sentence after this one discussing how Flying-, Psychic-, and Poison-type Pokemon all give Hitmonlee a lot of trouble. I think it is nice to subtly meantion checks and counters in these analyses.

Other options for Hitmonlee include

Add Mega Kick to the miniature other options section. This is Hitmonlee's best bet against Pokemon that resist Hi Jump Kick. It generally takes one fewer Mega Kick to get a KO than it takes to KO with Body Slam, which is relevant in a tier brimming with Fighting-type resists.

This is pretty much it. Let me know when you implement these changes and I'll likely grant you the QC.

 

[phoopes]

implemented!

 

[Volk]

Cool, just some grammar things:

As such, pretty much the entire metagame can OHKO or 2HKO Hitmonlee whether or not they can hit it with a super effective move.

Cut "As such" from the sentence.

In addition, what's nice about RBY mechanics is that even if you miss, Hitmonlee will only take 1 HP of damage, unlike later generations where the damage is much higher.

Cut "even" from the sentence.

Body Slam is used for some much-needed consistency, allowing Hitmonlee to deny switch-ins and spread paralysis without support from teammates.

Capitalize "paralysis."

Other options for Hitmonlee include Meditate to increase Hitmonlee's damage output, guaranteeing the OHKO on Persian and making a OHKO possible on Kangaskhan with Hi Jump Kick.

Change it to "...making an OHKO possible..."

Finally, Mega Kick can be used over Body Slam to deal higher damage to the many Pokemon that resist Fighting-typed attacks in the UU metagame.

Change to just "...Fighting-type attacks..."

Its insufficient speed leaves it vulnerable to Tentacruel, as well as other fast attackers like Dodrio and Kadabra.

This one is my own fault. I should have said "Its insufficient speed leaves it vulnerable to Tentacruel's Wrap, as well as fast attackers like Dodrio and Kadabra." I added a mention of Wrap sepcifically and removed the word "other."

Implement these and it's a QC 2/2. Cheers!

 

[phoopes]

Thanks Volk! This is now ready for GP

 

[Adeleine]

Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC)/(RC): Add/Remove Comma

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[OVERVIEW]

Hitmonlee is a Pokemon (removed accent on e) that never sees the light of day in competitive UU play, though it does have a few strong points. Its base 120 Attack and access to the unique STAB move Hi Jump Kick seem appealing, as Hi Jump Kick 2HKOes physically bulky Pokemon like Kangaskhan and Omastar and even has a small chance to OHKO Persian. Its Speed also makes it faster than tier staple Dragonite and fellow Fighting-type Poliwrath. However, there are it just has too many flaws for it to really make use of its unique traits.

Firstly, all of Hitmonlee's attacking moves are either Normal-type or Fighting-type. This lack of coverage makes it difficult for Hitmonlee to damage a lot of Pokemon, especially Haunter, (AC) who which is immune to all of Hitmonlee's moves besides Seismic Toss. Next, its Speed is only base 87, meaning it falls falling short of the magic number of base 100 benchmark that is so important for an offensive threat in RBY UU. Its insufficient Speed leaves it vulnerable to Tentacruel's Wrap (RC) as well as fast attackers like Dodrio and Kadabra. Therefore, Hitmonlee needs extensive paralysis support to work, and it's just not worth it when other Pokemon like Golem get more mileage out of such a strategy. Finally, its paper-thin defenses mean it has little chance of surviving any interactions. This is especially true for common Flying-, Psychic-, and Poison-type Pokemon, (AC) since they resist Hi Jump Kick. Pretty much the entire metagame can OHKO or 2HKO Hitmonlee whether or not they can hit it with a super effective move. For these reasons, Hitmonlee is best left on the sidelines and not used on your team.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Hi Jump Kick
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Counter

[SET COMMENTS]

Hi Jump Kick is Hitmonlee's most powerful attacking move when factoring in STAB, and is attack, good for 2HKOing Pokemon that it outspeeds (RC) such as Omastar, Dewgong, and Golem. In addition, what's nice about RBY mechanics is that if you miss, Hitmonlee will only take 1 HP of damage, unlike later generations where the damage is much higher. a miss only deals 1 HP of crash damage in RBY. Body Slam is used for some much-needed coverage and consistency, allowing Hitmonlee to deny switch-ins and spread paralysis without support from teammates. Seismic Toss is used primarily for Haunter so that Hitmonlee can actually do some damage to it lets Hitmonlee actually damage Haunter and force it to use Explosion earlier. Counter can net some surprise KOs on Normal-typed attacks like Persian's Slash or and Kangaskhan's Body Slam, or even a teammate's Explosion in (I assumed teammate, but if it can be foe also, add foe in) the niche scenario where Hitmonlee is brought in right after an Explosion to deal massive damage to a potential switch-in thereafter.

Other options for Hitmonlee include Meditate to increase Hitmonlee's its damage output, guaranteeing the OHKO on Persian and making an OHKO possible on Kangaskhan with Hi Jump Kick. Alternatively, Toxic can be used, (AC) as Hitmonlee outspeeds Dragonite (RC) thus stopping and thus can stop an Agility + Wrap sweep, (AC) since Dragonite will take more damage from poison than it's worth dishing out using with Wrap. Finally, Mega Kick can be used over Body Slam to deal higher damage to the many Pokemon that resist Fighting-type attacks in the UU metagame.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[phoopes, 96315]]
- Quality checked by: [[Plague von Karma, 236353], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

GP 1/1

 

[phoopes]

implemented, thanks for the check GP warrior Finland!

 

[Plague von Karma]

Uploaded with a few minor tweaks.

Remember to use modern move names, as the dex doesn't look at old ones (see Bubble Beam) in movesets. So in this case, Hi Jump Kick -> High Jump Kick. I should have caught this during my QC...