I am still quite new to the Ubers environment and find it's changed a fair bit from when I was truly into playing that environment and once again I'm lacking complete knowledge of the current Uber but enough to get some wins with this team, however it's still lacking a little bit. Offense tailored teams seem to be my forte and it seems to be the same for me in Ubers. However, offense seems to be quite a bit more rapid and fast pace unlike OU Bulky Offense where resistances and prediction are much more the key, instead of coming in with a Choice item, or a quick Swords Dance / Nasty Plot and battering everything around before you die.
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Team Building Process
I decided to centre the team around my favourite pokemon during GCS's release, after being an awesome pheonix replacement to my previous fave, Moltres.
Secondly I needed weather as does any Uber's team, and Sun support would really help out Ho-oh so Groudon was practically an extension of Ho-oh's talons. I decided on the Rock Polish set as I hadn't tried it out before and have struggled in the past with bulkier sets.
Next up, I reallised with the omnipresent Stealth Rocks lurking, Ho-oh would be loosing 50% HP each switch without Rapid Spin support and I instantly though of the reliable Forretress, even though I usually avoid it :P
I soon reallised that Kyogre would a bastard even with Groudon undoing his effects, and needed him countered. Using Latias in the past to great effects with this Strategy in mind as well as further clearing up some weaknesses already dangerously present I added her to the bunch.
Some revenge killing demon would top this off quite well, and I was again thinking resistances and threats. Seeing the Dialga and Palkia's great movesets I was enticed, but chose Palkia with his useful checks to present threats, greater Speed stat, and STAB Surf for when Kyogre inevitably shows up to finish of some great coverage Dialga lacked.
Needing a method to stop Darkrai and already having Rapid Spin support I knew that outspeeding a Taunt / Sleep was hopeless, and that With forry Taunt wasn't all that necessary. Looking at some anti Darkrai leads as it's all that really worried me now, I saw an anti-metagame twist on Dialga and liked what I saw, so added him in.
After looking at the line-up i thought to myself that it looks pretty good, and that by covering for Ho-oh's threats and reinforcing everyone so we didn't have any moveset redundancy between the pokes, it actually looked really good. Playtesting has given me about 50% win ratio, although that's likely because I'm quite Ubers inexperienced, the metagame has truly changed since I last got into it. From a good bit of playtesting I've found trouble killing Toxic Blissey as it can just Toxic incoming Ho-oh or Groudon who carve it up. DD Ray who sets up on Forry blitzes the team including scarf Palkia. If Latias sets up she's also problematic and finally, I really don't like running Forry purely because I hate him but really need Rapid Spin. So, contemplated Donphan as Ice Shard would carve up but my team seemed alright. The main debate would be the Donphan vs. Forry issue so I'll explain more later and just mention both Rapid Spinners in there. So without further ado, here it is...
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That's the team! The main issue to be resolved would be the Rapid Spin issue between Donphan and Forry that was explained earlier. Any rate will help and will be much appreciated so please don't feel intimidated to compete with all the raters as I see in so many other RMT's where you'll have 2 recurring people as the only raters in 1 thread. Please help wherever possible, thanks for reading...
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Team Building Process
I decided to centre the team around my favourite pokemon during GCS's release, after being an awesome pheonix replacement to my previous fave, Moltres.
Secondly I needed weather as does any Uber's team, and Sun support would really help out Ho-oh so Groudon was practically an extension of Ho-oh's talons. I decided on the Rock Polish set as I hadn't tried it out before and have struggled in the past with bulkier sets.
Next up, I reallised with the omnipresent Stealth Rocks lurking, Ho-oh would be loosing 50% HP each switch without Rapid Spin support and I instantly though of the reliable Forretress, even though I usually avoid it :P
I soon reallised that Kyogre would a bastard even with Groudon undoing his effects, and needed him countered. Using Latias in the past to great effects with this Strategy in mind as well as further clearing up some weaknesses already dangerously present I added her to the bunch.
Some revenge killing demon would top this off quite well, and I was again thinking resistances and threats. Seeing the Dialga and Palkia's great movesets I was enticed, but chose Palkia with his useful checks to present threats, greater Speed stat, and STAB Surf for when Kyogre inevitably shows up to finish of some great coverage Dialga lacked.
Needing a method to stop Darkrai and already having Rapid Spin support I knew that outspeeding a Taunt / Sleep was hopeless, and that With forry Taunt wasn't all that necessary. Looking at some anti Darkrai leads as it's all that really worried me now, I saw an anti-metagame twist on Dialga and liked what I saw, so added him in.
After looking at the line-up i thought to myself that it looks pretty good, and that by covering for Ho-oh's threats and reinforcing everyone so we didn't have any moveset redundancy between the pokes, it actually looked really good. Playtesting has given me about 50% win ratio, although that's likely because I'm quite Ubers inexperienced, the metagame has truly changed since I last got into it. From a good bit of playtesting I've found trouble killing Toxic Blissey as it can just Toxic incoming Ho-oh or Groudon who carve it up. DD Ray who sets up on Forry blitzes the team including scarf Palkia. If Latias sets up she's also problematic and finally, I really don't like running Forry purely because I hate him but really need Rapid Spin. So, contemplated Donphan as Ice Shard would carve up but my team seemed alright. The main debate would be the Donphan vs. Forry issue so I'll explain more later and just mention both Rapid Spinners in there. So without further ado, here it is...
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THE TEAM
Dialga @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 SpD
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
This is a great anti-lead, guaranteed to kill / screw up Darkrai who I've recently found a new bread pain. Although everyone is countering it now so it tends to reveal itself later game now. Regardless it does match well against many common leads getting Thunder Wave in on everything without much hassle and only risking Tricking a useless Chesto on their behalf, yet curing sleep on mine. Status usually first turn and then Stealth Rocks and that's pretty much guaranteed unless I get parahax inflicting me against against the two rivalling T-Wave Groudon and Kyogres who take heavy damage from Draco Meteor and Thunder respectively. Against Deoxys of any kind and Mewtwo, I attack straight out against inevitable taunt, and then again after the sash activates I finnish the KO and just wait for the impossible OHKO of a lead set, especially after Taunting before I finish it off :P An all around great lead, and reliable Stealth Rocks set up even if Taunted early can do so reliably later game too...
Ho-oh @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 66 Spe
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Roost
The focus of the team flies upon the battlefield with magnificent colours and dominates with his signature move Sacred Fire, the epitome of his Uber rank and what is the selling point for any user of Ho-oh. The 50% burn is so useful and is a virtual check to even it's counters who fear the burn, however it takes a lot of work to let this happen. Stealth Rocks deal 50% damage to not much surprise to those of you put off the phoenix, but with the Spin support and checks against its counters this bird is hard to stop with the few requirements set. Sub-Roost is an awesome combo being utilised a lot more often and to great effect on Ho-oh because when I come in on something that doesn't like Ho-oh the sub goes up and there's an instant advantage and sweeping opportunity opened up. Roost increases the survivability and Sacred Fire and Earthquake provide some good sweeping coverage.
Groudon @ Life Orb
Trait: Drought
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 136 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Polish
Sun support is a must with Ho-oh, not only does it counter Rain on the switch so Ho-oh isn't weakened rather his attacks are boosted under the Sun as well as Palkia's Fire Blasts. Furthermore the ever popular Rock Polish set works to great effect allowing the ability to outspeed Scarf users who are otherwise quite troublesome to the team especially if Palkia is down. Furthermore, with Stealth Rocks which are easy enough to set-up from Palkia and Spikes from Forretress which are once again easy if he doesn't lure set up sweepers, then many of Groudon's 2HKO's become crucial OHKO's and that is ever useful considering Garchomp is a force that is hard to deal with otherwise and so is Palkia under the rain. Said before counters are easy prey as they do quite little damage because of either physical attacks or weakened STAB under the Sun.
Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
Seems a little weird on a somewhat Sun themed team where the faster Garchomp would seem more useful. However, with more awesome resists and a high powered Fire Blast under the Sun is becoming ever more useful with more Forretress being used as Dragon absorbers and Rapid Spinners with the rise of Stealth Rock. Furthermore with the popularity of Kyogre is another threat easily checked and yet another weather boost to STAB Surf and 100% accurate Thunder to take Kyogre out of the treat list. Revenge killing is easily done with the Scarf and excellent coverage covers up prediction issues. A very reliable glue to the team who truly supports Ho-oh.
Latias @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Latias checks many Pokemon otherwise posing offensive threats to Ho-oh as well as many other Ubers. It's ability to switch in on Kyogre is of largest note, at it otherwise disrupts Groudon's Sun further adding more thorns into Ho-oh apart from the ever annoying Stealth Rocks. Using Grass Knot over Thunder has proved useful netting the same 120 power against many Ubers where Dragon Pulse lacks the coverage, still OHKO'ing the otherwise confident Groudon and BIG damage on even defensively minded Kyogre. With Calm Mind, many 2HKO's become OHKO's and with Stealth Rock (+Spikes with Forry), and Latias truly shines in it's Special Sweeping abilities. It also packs some cool resistances to other offensive threats besides those Super Ho-oh and becomes even a great Special Wall with Calm Mind and key resistances.
RAPID SPINNER (OPTION 1)
Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Explosion
Probably the best Physical Wall to use in Ubers and widely known too, hence Fire moves are a necessity on mixed sweepers. His Rapid Spin support is reliable and he sets up entry hazards with ease on what won't kill him that won't set up on him. Ask yourself this... How often is that? Ho-oh's Physical and raped his ass, Ray Swords Dances all day on this, Metagross repeatedly hits laughing off Explosion, just to name a few. Perhaps this is still the single most reliable Rapid Spinner / Physical Wall in the Uber Metagame set-up fodder has never floated my boat. But not using this seems risky as Stealth Rocks absence is the key to victory concerning Ho-oh and the added Spikes (+ Stealth Rock from Dialga) support that Donphan lacks allows Rock Polish Groudon to turn low chance OHKO's and 2HKO's into crucial OHKO's for a majority of the metagame. It seems hard to pass up but I've had setup sweepers ruin this team enough in OU and Uber to want to use this again, but any arguments would really help out in this decision process.
RAPID SPINNER (OPTION 2)
Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 Def
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Adamant nature? Near max Attack? Are you a retard? Um, no I use this over Forry as much as possible because I hate that setup fodder bastard and this thing kills Dragons *cough* Rayquaza and Garchomp. Still retaining the physical walling prowess this sturdy little elephant brings to UU (no pun intended :P), the pure Ground typing and same tanking ability is useful in Uber too. Admittedly the typing is probably worse than Forry with weakness to ever common Ice and Water and neutralities to the ever common Dragon and Ghost, but a cool Electric immunity. Most physical attackers don't have so much to beat around Donphan with super effectively and he does last. An example of his skills are perfectly demonstrated here...
Let's say it's Donphan vs the bastard that is SD Rayquaza with all the "beauties" happening (252 Atk, Adamant yada yada). Donphan has Ice Shard which has priority and with Stealth Rock on the field will DEFINATELY OHKO no questions asked. Even the standard Jolly 32 HP EVs DD Ray is always OHKO'd by Ice Shard and the difference between him and Forry is Donphan is not setup fodder because of this, nor does he have to explode to kill Ray and risk Stealth Rocks coming back onto the field to ruin Ho-oh's attempts of surviving. Donphan will still around even after a Swords Danced Adamant 252 Atk Dragon Claw and return the OHKO, or if Ray's cocky and uses Extremespeed, he'll live with even more HP to once again return the OHKO. Furthermore, the weaker Garchomp does even less damage with his attacks and lacks priority, meaning he is easy prey to Donphan with less damage taken and no risk of a revenge Extremespeed as he fails to 2HKO even with that scarf. However Garchomp's not OHKO'd but without said priority it's a definite 2HKO and only one hit taken he doesn't cotton on and stays in. However the issue of recovery hinders switching into this threat but once something is down Donphan comes in to take out the trash, and Rapid Spin those bastard rocks out of site for Ho-oh...
The main question now is, do we go with the reliability of Forretress and added Spikes support and that ever useful Dragon resistance plus "Set Up Fodder King"?
Or do I go with lesser resistances and switch in reliability but guaranteed 1v1 win against any Rayquaza and give myself the advantage in that field of unexpectedness?
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Dialga @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 SpD
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
This is a great anti-lead, guaranteed to kill / screw up Darkrai who I've recently found a new bread pain. Although everyone is countering it now so it tends to reveal itself later game now. Regardless it does match well against many common leads getting Thunder Wave in on everything without much hassle and only risking Tricking a useless Chesto on their behalf, yet curing sleep on mine. Status usually first turn and then Stealth Rocks and that's pretty much guaranteed unless I get parahax inflicting me against against the two rivalling T-Wave Groudon and Kyogres who take heavy damage from Draco Meteor and Thunder respectively. Against Deoxys of any kind and Mewtwo, I attack straight out against inevitable taunt, and then again after the sash activates I finnish the KO and just wait for the impossible OHKO of a lead set, especially after Taunting before I finish it off :P An all around great lead, and reliable Stealth Rocks set up even if Taunted early can do so reliably later game too...
Ho-oh @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 66 Spe
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Roost
The focus of the team flies upon the battlefield with magnificent colours and dominates with his signature move Sacred Fire, the epitome of his Uber rank and what is the selling point for any user of Ho-oh. The 50% burn is so useful and is a virtual check to even it's counters who fear the burn, however it takes a lot of work to let this happen. Stealth Rocks deal 50% damage to not much surprise to those of you put off the phoenix, but with the Spin support and checks against its counters this bird is hard to stop with the few requirements set. Sub-Roost is an awesome combo being utilised a lot more often and to great effect on Ho-oh because when I come in on something that doesn't like Ho-oh the sub goes up and there's an instant advantage and sweeping opportunity opened up. Roost increases the survivability and Sacred Fire and Earthquake provide some good sweeping coverage.
Groudon @ Life Orb
Trait: Drought
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 136 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Polish
Sun support is a must with Ho-oh, not only does it counter Rain on the switch so Ho-oh isn't weakened rather his attacks are boosted under the Sun as well as Palkia's Fire Blasts. Furthermore the ever popular Rock Polish set works to great effect allowing the ability to outspeed Scarf users who are otherwise quite troublesome to the team especially if Palkia is down. Furthermore, with Stealth Rocks which are easy enough to set-up from Palkia and Spikes from Forretress which are once again easy if he doesn't lure set up sweepers, then many of Groudon's 2HKO's become crucial OHKO's and that is ever useful considering Garchomp is a force that is hard to deal with otherwise and so is Palkia under the rain. Said before counters are easy prey as they do quite little damage because of either physical attacks or weakened STAB under the Sun.
Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
Seems a little weird on a somewhat Sun themed team where the faster Garchomp would seem more useful. However, with more awesome resists and a high powered Fire Blast under the Sun is becoming ever more useful with more Forretress being used as Dragon absorbers and Rapid Spinners with the rise of Stealth Rock. Furthermore with the popularity of Kyogre is another threat easily checked and yet another weather boost to STAB Surf and 100% accurate Thunder to take Kyogre out of the treat list. Revenge killing is easily done with the Scarf and excellent coverage covers up prediction issues. A very reliable glue to the team who truly supports Ho-oh.
Latias @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot
- Calm Mind
- Recover
Latias checks many Pokemon otherwise posing offensive threats to Ho-oh as well as many other Ubers. It's ability to switch in on Kyogre is of largest note, at it otherwise disrupts Groudon's Sun further adding more thorns into Ho-oh apart from the ever annoying Stealth Rocks. Using Grass Knot over Thunder has proved useful netting the same 120 power against many Ubers where Dragon Pulse lacks the coverage, still OHKO'ing the otherwise confident Groudon and BIG damage on even defensively minded Kyogre. With Calm Mind, many 2HKO's become OHKO's and with Stealth Rock (+Spikes with Forry), and Latias truly shines in it's Special Sweeping abilities. It also packs some cool resistances to other offensive threats besides those Super Ho-oh and becomes even a great Special Wall with Calm Mind and key resistances.
RAPID SPINNER (OPTION 1)
Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Explosion
Probably the best Physical Wall to use in Ubers and widely known too, hence Fire moves are a necessity on mixed sweepers. His Rapid Spin support is reliable and he sets up entry hazards with ease on what won't kill him that won't set up on him. Ask yourself this... How often is that? Ho-oh's Physical and raped his ass, Ray Swords Dances all day on this, Metagross repeatedly hits laughing off Explosion, just to name a few. Perhaps this is still the single most reliable Rapid Spinner / Physical Wall in the Uber Metagame set-up fodder has never floated my boat. But not using this seems risky as Stealth Rocks absence is the key to victory concerning Ho-oh and the added Spikes (+ Stealth Rock from Dialga) support that Donphan lacks allows Rock Polish Groudon to turn low chance OHKO's and 2HKO's into crucial OHKO's for a majority of the metagame. It seems hard to pass up but I've had setup sweepers ruin this team enough in OU and Uber to want to use this again, but any arguments would really help out in this decision process.
RAPID SPINNER (OPTION 2)
Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 Def
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
Adamant nature? Near max Attack? Are you a retard? Um, no I use this over Forry as much as possible because I hate that setup fodder bastard and this thing kills Dragons *cough* Rayquaza and Garchomp. Still retaining the physical walling prowess this sturdy little elephant brings to UU (no pun intended :P), the pure Ground typing and same tanking ability is useful in Uber too. Admittedly the typing is probably worse than Forry with weakness to ever common Ice and Water and neutralities to the ever common Dragon and Ghost, but a cool Electric immunity. Most physical attackers don't have so much to beat around Donphan with super effectively and he does last. An example of his skills are perfectly demonstrated here...
Let's say it's Donphan vs the bastard that is SD Rayquaza with all the "beauties" happening (252 Atk, Adamant yada yada). Donphan has Ice Shard which has priority and with Stealth Rock on the field will DEFINATELY OHKO no questions asked. Even the standard Jolly 32 HP EVs DD Ray is always OHKO'd by Ice Shard and the difference between him and Forry is Donphan is not setup fodder because of this, nor does he have to explode to kill Ray and risk Stealth Rocks coming back onto the field to ruin Ho-oh's attempts of surviving. Donphan will still around even after a Swords Danced Adamant 252 Atk Dragon Claw and return the OHKO, or if Ray's cocky and uses Extremespeed, he'll live with even more HP to once again return the OHKO. Furthermore, the weaker Garchomp does even less damage with his attacks and lacks priority, meaning he is easy prey to Donphan with less damage taken and no risk of a revenge Extremespeed as he fails to 2HKO even with that scarf. However Garchomp's not OHKO'd but without said priority it's a definite 2HKO and only one hit taken he doesn't cotton on and stays in. However the issue of recovery hinders switching into this threat but once something is down Donphan comes in to take out the trash, and Rapid Spin those bastard rocks out of site for Ho-oh...
The main question now is, do we go with the reliability of Forretress and added Spikes support and that ever useful Dragon resistance plus "Set Up Fodder King"?
Or do I go with lesser resistances and switch in reliability but guaranteed 1v1 win against any Rayquaza and give myself the advantage in that field of unexpectedness?
That's the team! The main issue to be resolved would be the Rapid Spin issue between Donphan and Forry that was explained earlier. Any rate will help and will be much appreciated so please don't feel intimidated to compete with all the raters as I see in so many other RMT's where you'll have 2 recurring people as the only raters in 1 thread. Please help wherever possible, thanks for reading...
