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Pet Mod Hoenn Gaiden - Slate 14 (Return and Rework)
- Thread starter Ema Skye
- Start date
- Status
Spiky Shield (SV)
Foul Play (SV)
Giga Drain
Drain Punch (iceblazer)
Sucker Punch
Stuff Cheeks
Foul Play (SV)
Giga Drain
Drain Punch (iceblazer)
Sucker Punch
Stuff Cheeks
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Drain Punch Coil (SV)
Giga Drain Buff
Lunge
Sucker Punch
Freeze-Dry
Giga Drain Buff
Lunge
Sucker Punch
Freeze-Dry
Ema Skye
Work!
Man, I must be like the only person to want to post in this thread.
Slate 6 is going to be a bit of an experiment and we'll see how it goes. It will be divided into two parts.
In Part A, we will be proposing and voting for different concepts we'd like to see in this meta.
Concepts can be as simple or complex as you want them to be. Some simpler concepts could be:
At the end of Part A, we will hold a vote for what concepts we want to manifest, and then we will make submissions in Part B in line with the voted upon roles. My hope is that this avoids some redundancy; our meta is becoming quite diverse and I want to preserve it. However, we are noticing a few Pokemon are already slipping through the cracks as ineffective or obsolete, so I want to address it.
To keep in mind, Part B submissions are very open-ended. During Part B, you may submit:
Subs for Part A will probably be closed in 4 days. Have fun!
Slate 6 is going to be a bit of an experiment and we'll see how it goes. It will be divided into two parts.
In Part A, we will be proposing and voting for different concepts we'd like to see in this meta.
Concepts can be as simple or complex as you want them to be. Some simpler concepts could be:
- physical/special breaker
- physical/special wall
- offensive/defensive pivot
- spikes/rapid spin/spinblocker
- wishpass/cleric
- anti-Ghost spinner
- pure utility
- perfect teammate
- stat boost abuser
- chip damage wallbreaker
At the end of Part A, we will hold a vote for what concepts we want to manifest, and then we will make submissions in Part B in line with the voted upon roles. My hope is that this avoids some redundancy; our meta is becoming quite diverse and I want to preserve it. However, we are noticing a few Pokemon are already slipping through the cracks as ineffective or obsolete, so I want to address it.
To keep in mind, Part B submissions are very open-ended. During Part B, you may submit:
- Pokemon devamps
- Pokemon buffs (including our existing devamps or previously buffed mons)
- new moves
- new abilities
- a combination of the above
Concept Name:
Description:
Justification:
Description:
Justification:
Subs for Part A will probably be closed in 4 days. Have fun!
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Concept Name: Jack of All Trades
Description: Pokemon that can utilize many different roles at once.
Justification: Pokemon that have many different movepools for different roles would benefit from this, for example a Mixed Attacker that could run Hazard Setting. Speaking of Hazard Setter...
Concept Name: Hazard Setter
Description: Utilizes hazards like Stealth Rock/Sticky Web to control strategies for playing options.
Justification: Hazards are basically ways to de-sync your opponent's switching options. Stealth Rock will do a chunk of damage to Flying mons, while Sticky Web can stop faster attackers, etc.
Description: Pokemon that can utilize many different roles at once.
Justification: Pokemon that have many different movepools for different roles would benefit from this, for example a Mixed Attacker that could run Hazard Setting. Speaking of Hazard Setter...
Concept Name: Hazard Setter
Description: Utilizes hazards like Stealth Rock/Sticky Web to control strategies for playing options.
Justification: Hazards are basically ways to de-sync your opponent's switching options. Stealth Rock will do a chunk of damage to Flying mons, while Sticky Web can stop faster attackers, etc.
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Ema Skye
Work!
Just wanna make sure you know this mod is Gen 3 and so Weakness Policy doesn't exist, and creating new items isn't within the scope of the current slate.
Concept Name: Special Wall
Description: A Pokémon that can check or counter powerful Special Attackers
Justification: The current Special walls in the metagame, being Blissey, Dunsparce, Milotic, and Jellicent (though it's phys def sets are more common), plus Special tanks in Hariyama and Snorlax, are fine, but I'd say there's less good or splashable options for Special Walls than physical walls and plus, a certain special attacker by the name of Ledian is able to muscle past these would be checks sans Blissey and Snorlax thanks to Magic Guard ignoring Toxic and Tail Glow's speedy setup. Thus, another viable option, especially one that can cripple or KO Ledian, would be much appreciated since more options makes teambuilding easier.
Concept Name: Rapid Spin User
Description: A Pokémon that can effectively remove Spikes with Rapid Spin
Justification: There are a lot of good Spikers in the metagame right now, with Skarmory, Roselia, Dunsparce, Forretress, AND Cloyster (and after the move slate, maybe Omastar and Cacturne as well), while conversely, every viable spinner, of which there are a good few as well, has huge flaws that make it harder to remove hazards than it is to set them up, usually due to being easily spinblocked by the increased number of viable Ghosts (Forretress, Cloyster, Claydol, Donphan), easy to KO (Hitmonlee, Cloyster), or would rather be doing something else (Jumpluff, Hitmonlee, Cryogonal), with the only not particularly suffering from any of these problems being Starmie, though that's not to say it doesn't suffer from these problems to a lesser degree. Thus, another option for a Rapid Spinner that can address one or more of the limitations that Rapid Spinners currently have (without having to go and add Defog or something)
Concept Name: Weather Disruptor
Description: A Pokémon that can remove weather from the field or otherwise make it a non-factor for a short period of time
Justification: With perma-weather, the meta is defined by Tyranitar's Sand and Delibird/Abomasnow's Hail. While a few Pokemon can ignore weather for themselves, like the Magic Guard and Overcoat users or Cloud Nine Jumpluff, none of them have a way to support their teammates or mess with the opposing team. The only things that can really do this right now are Rain Dance users like Ludicolo and Kingdra and Dugtrio's ability to trap Tyranitar, though Delibird and Abomasnow make these strategies a lot weaker. Thus, something that can support itself and its teammates by removing weather can help de-centralize weather. However, if this concept were to win, we would have to be super careful about it, since something that shuts down weather completely would completely warp the metagame around itself, so it's ability to disrupt weather should be temporary
Concept Name: Viable Poison-type
Description: A Pokémon that uses the strengths of the Poison-type to find a niche in the metagame
Justification: Despite being a meta where Toxic is super common, Poison-types are actually extremely rare in the meta, with the only viable ones being Gengar, Toxicroak (who nobody knows how viable it is yet), and Roselia, plus the extremely niche Venusaur and Minun. While it's easy to see why this is, with Rock and Ground-types being everywhere, Skarmory and other Steel-types being everywhere, and most Poison-types simply having bad stats or just happening to be outclassed by Venusaur/Roselia, Poison-types have a lot to offer in the metagame namely a Toxic immunity without needing to use the limited Magic Guard options, a strong STAB move in Sludge Bomb that hits common Grass-types hard and only two weakness that, while common, can be easily covered for.
Description: A Pokémon that can check or counter powerful Special Attackers
Justification: The current Special walls in the metagame, being Blissey, Dunsparce, Milotic, and Jellicent (though it's phys def sets are more common), plus Special tanks in Hariyama and Snorlax, are fine, but I'd say there's less good or splashable options for Special Walls than physical walls and plus, a certain special attacker by the name of Ledian is able to muscle past these would be checks sans Blissey and Snorlax thanks to Magic Guard ignoring Toxic and Tail Glow's speedy setup. Thus, another viable option, especially one that can cripple or KO Ledian, would be much appreciated since more options makes teambuilding easier.
Concept Name: Rapid Spin User
Description: A Pokémon that can effectively remove Spikes with Rapid Spin
Justification: There are a lot of good Spikers in the metagame right now, with Skarmory, Roselia, Dunsparce, Forretress, AND Cloyster (and after the move slate, maybe Omastar and Cacturne as well), while conversely, every viable spinner, of which there are a good few as well, has huge flaws that make it harder to remove hazards than it is to set them up, usually due to being easily spinblocked by the increased number of viable Ghosts (Forretress, Cloyster, Claydol, Donphan), easy to KO (Hitmonlee, Cloyster), or would rather be doing something else (Jumpluff, Hitmonlee, Cryogonal), with the only not particularly suffering from any of these problems being Starmie, though that's not to say it doesn't suffer from these problems to a lesser degree. Thus, another option for a Rapid Spinner that can address one or more of the limitations that Rapid Spinners currently have (without having to go and add Defog or something)
Concept Name: Weather Disruptor
Description: A Pokémon that can remove weather from the field or otherwise make it a non-factor for a short period of time
Justification: With perma-weather, the meta is defined by Tyranitar's Sand and Delibird/Abomasnow's Hail. While a few Pokemon can ignore weather for themselves, like the Magic Guard and Overcoat users or Cloud Nine Jumpluff, none of them have a way to support their teammates or mess with the opposing team. The only things that can really do this right now are Rain Dance users like Ludicolo and Kingdra and Dugtrio's ability to trap Tyranitar, though Delibird and Abomasnow make these strategies a lot weaker. Thus, something that can support itself and its teammates by removing weather can help de-centralize weather. However, if this concept were to win, we would have to be super careful about it, since something that shuts down weather completely would completely warp the metagame around itself, so it's ability to disrupt weather should be temporary
Concept Name: Viable Poison-type
Description: A Pokémon that uses the strengths of the Poison-type to find a niche in the metagame
Justification: Despite being a meta where Toxic is super common, Poison-types are actually extremely rare in the meta, with the only viable ones being Gengar, Toxicroak (who nobody knows how viable it is yet), and Roselia, plus the extremely niche Venusaur and Minun. While it's easy to see why this is, with Rock and Ground-types being everywhere, Skarmory and other Steel-types being everywhere, and most Poison-types simply having bad stats or just happening to be outclassed by Venusaur/Roselia, Poison-types have a lot to offer in the metagame namely a Toxic immunity without needing to use the limited Magic Guard options, a strong STAB move in Sludge Bomb that hits common Grass-types hard and only two weakness that, while common, can be easily covered for.
CAP HOEEN GAIDEN LETS GO
Concept Name:Castration PP Drainer
Description: A pokemon whose main niche comes as PP stalling with the combination of its abilities and/or its moves.
Justification: A concept I have always really liked is that of a Mon who is great at pp stalling. Sure, Mons like suicune can stall pp when needed, but they are made to accomplish other types of roles in a team. This Mon however, has its main focus as specifically weathering down the pp of opposing Pokémon in order to help it's teammates check certain Mons better or get past their checks or counters
Concept Name: Unconventional weather setter
Description: A pokemon who is able to enable sun/rain teams without making use of weather summoning abilities such as drizzle or Drought
Justification: Rain and Sun are currently unviable without the instant summon abilities but trying introduce drizzle and drought into ADV OU is a pretty terrible idea. Still, it would be cool to make rain/sun teams viable again considering how many mons get access to weather dependent abilities.
Concept Name:
Description: A pokemon whose main niche comes as PP stalling with the combination of its abilities and/or its moves.
Justification: A concept I have always really liked is that of a Mon who is great at pp stalling. Sure, Mons like suicune can stall pp when needed, but they are made to accomplish other types of roles in a team. This Mon however, has its main focus as specifically weathering down the pp of opposing Pokémon in order to help it's teammates check certain Mons better or get past their checks or counters
Concept Name: Unconventional weather setter
Description: A pokemon who is able to enable sun/rain teams without making use of weather summoning abilities such as drizzle or Drought
Justification: Rain and Sun are currently unviable without the instant summon abilities but trying introduce drizzle and drought into ADV OU is a pretty terrible idea. Still, it would be cool to make rain/sun teams viable again considering how many mons get access to weather dependent abilities.
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Concept Name: Bulk Up Cleaner
Description: A pokemon that uses bulk up to sweep at the end of a game
Justification: We have a lot of CM sweepers but we have only Machamp and Scrafty (Also Hitmonlee but less so) as bulk up cleaners. So having more (non-fighting) bulk up cleaners would add some more diversity to the meta
Concept Name: Secondary Sand Setter
Description: A pokemon who can set sand other then Ttar
Justification: Sand is one of the best tools in the meta due to it chiping both defensive and offensive pokemon alike, however Ttar is the only sand setter and despite Ttar being great what if you could still use sand with out having to deal with Ttar's weaknesses. A Secondary sand setter that has different weaknesses then Ttar could let teams that can't afford Ttar still use sand
Description: A pokemon that uses bulk up to sweep at the end of a game
Justification: We have a lot of CM sweepers but we have only Machamp and Scrafty (Also Hitmonlee but less so) as bulk up cleaners. So having more (non-fighting) bulk up cleaners would add some more diversity to the meta
Concept Name: Secondary Sand Setter
Description: A pokemon who can set sand other then Ttar
Justification: Sand is one of the best tools in the meta due to it chiping both defensive and offensive pokemon alike, however Ttar is the only sand setter and despite Ttar being great what if you could still use sand with out having to deal with Ttar's weaknesses. A Secondary sand setter that has different weaknesses then Ttar could let teams that can't afford Ttar still use sand
Concept Name: Wish Passer
Description: A pokemon that can use Wish to help other pokemon on its team.
Justification: Many of the best pokemon in the format, such as Swampert or Skarmory lack a good way to heal outside of leftovers. Yes, we have Blissey which can pass huge wishes, but its vulnerability to sandstorm and spikes as well as lacking the option to use Baton Pass to safely switch-into its teammates makes it less than ideal. A pokemon with an immunity to both and the ability to pass big wishes would be highly appreciated.
Description: A pokemon that can use Wish to help other pokemon on its team.
Justification: Many of the best pokemon in the format, such as Swampert or Skarmory lack a good way to heal outside of leftovers. Yes, we have Blissey which can pass huge wishes, but its vulnerability to sandstorm and spikes as well as lacking the option to use Baton Pass to safely switch-into its teammates makes it less than ideal. A pokemon with an immunity to both and the ability to pass big wishes would be highly appreciated.
Concept Name: Special Sweeper
Description: A sweeper that is specially-oriented.
Justification: ADV has many physical sweepers, such as DD Ttar, Metagross, Gyarados, and so on. Special sweepers, on the other hand, are much more rare aside from Celebi, Suicune, Ledian, and arguably, Gengar. The remaining ones are either too frail (Zam, Crawdaunt) or unviable (Tropius
, Dusclops). Therefore, these kind of sweepers would bring more diversity.
Concept Name: Viable Fire Type
Description: Exactly what it says on the tin.
Justification: Simply put, ADV as a whole severely lacks good, consistent Fire-types. Yes, while Ttar is the bane of Fires and is everywhere, alongside more issues such as the prevalence of Dragons and Waters, Fire-types do have a couple of valuable niches in the tier, such as being immune to Wisp, being able to check Grasses, Steels, and Ice-types, and having a decent MU against Spikers. What’s more, Fire-types have decent role compression, as they can do all of the above in one slot, allowing for more freedom in the builder.
Description: A sweeper that is specially-oriented.
Justification: ADV has many physical sweepers, such as DD Ttar, Metagross, Gyarados, and so on. Special sweepers, on the other hand, are much more rare aside from Celebi, Suicune, Ledian, and arguably, Gengar. The remaining ones are either too frail (Zam, Crawdaunt) or unviable (Tropius
, Dusclops). Therefore, these kind of sweepers would bring more diversity.Concept Name: Viable Fire Type
Description: Exactly what it says on the tin.
Justification: Simply put, ADV as a whole severely lacks good, consistent Fire-types. Yes, while Ttar is the bane of Fires and is everywhere, alongside more issues such as the prevalence of Dragons and Waters, Fire-types do have a couple of valuable niches in the tier, such as being immune to Wisp, being able to check Grasses, Steels, and Ice-types, and having a decent MU against Spikers. What’s more, Fire-types have decent role compression, as they can do all of the above in one slot, allowing for more freedom in the builder.
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Concept Name: Crit Abuser
Description: Utilizes high crit rates paired with good attacking stats to punch through walls, especially defensive boosters.
Justification: High crit rates allow for more options to take down the likes of Blissey and Skarmory, which can be huge problems in their defensive prowess and ability to set up spikes/toxic/wish. Despite its poor defense stat, Blissey can often toxic stall even physical attackers with defense evs and the use of softboiled. High crit rates can help with that, giving a better chance to outdamage softboiled. In addition, as crits ignore enemy stat buffs, this kind of mon could combat calm mind sweepers (Suicune, Celebi, Jirachi, etc.) and could potentially continue a sweep through Salamence intimidate depending on coverage. Overall, this kind of build could provide for potentially explosive team building opportunities and increase the use of fast-paced offense in the meta.
Concept Name: Priority User
Description: Uses high attacking stats with priority to clean up weakened mons and punch holes in fast mons.
Justification: Without focus sash/modern sturdy/choice scarf, ADV doesn't have many options to stop sweeps from dragon dance or fast boosted mons once they get going. A mon with good priority coverage can help with this, being able to stop a sweeper if it finished boosting at low health or with good super effective damage. Right now the biggest things keeping this role from being filled in ADV are a general lack of good priority moves and poor distribution of Extreme Speed. Decent coverage in terms of priority paired with a high attacking stat or access to Swords Dance can make this archetype formidable and an alternative to toxic stalling (which can allow a sweeper to boost more).
Description: Utilizes high crit rates paired with good attacking stats to punch through walls, especially defensive boosters.
Justification: High crit rates allow for more options to take down the likes of Blissey and Skarmory, which can be huge problems in their defensive prowess and ability to set up spikes/toxic/wish. Despite its poor defense stat, Blissey can often toxic stall even physical attackers with defense evs and the use of softboiled. High crit rates can help with that, giving a better chance to outdamage softboiled. In addition, as crits ignore enemy stat buffs, this kind of mon could combat calm mind sweepers (Suicune, Celebi, Jirachi, etc.) and could potentially continue a sweep through Salamence intimidate depending on coverage. Overall, this kind of build could provide for potentially explosive team building opportunities and increase the use of fast-paced offense in the meta.
Concept Name: Priority User
Description: Uses high attacking stats with priority to clean up weakened mons and punch holes in fast mons.
Justification: Without focus sash/modern sturdy/choice scarf, ADV doesn't have many options to stop sweeps from dragon dance or fast boosted mons once they get going. A mon with good priority coverage can help with this, being able to stop a sweeper if it finished boosting at low health or with good super effective damage. Right now the biggest things keeping this role from being filled in ADV are a general lack of good priority moves and poor distribution of Extreme Speed. Decent coverage in terms of priority paired with a high attacking stat or access to Swords Dance can make this archetype formidable and an alternative to toxic stalling (which can allow a sweeper to boost more).
Best Gal
once upon a time wont last forever
Concept Name: Rock Resist with Reliable Recovery
Description: A Pokemon that can switch in on the Rock-type STAB of Tyranitar and Aerodactyl more than a couple of times, preferably one not weak to Ground (WishTect Rachi is fine, but passive, and ends up vulnerable to all but Choice-locked variants- other options we have, if any, have slipped my mind while writing- I don't think Breloom counts for much here haha) as most Rock types and mons that carry Rock coverage tend towards having Earthquake.
Justification: Oftentimes I find that new teambuilding options provided like the Ice types (Deli, Cryo, Aboma), Plusle, and Jumpluff end up super sensitive to Aerodactyl showing up on the opposing build. This can be mitigated as a flaw by good play and softer, less robust checks like Gliscor, Skarmory, Golurk and more, but it is for certain that most of the things that want to switch in on Aerodactyl would not necessarily want to do so vs Tyranitar, especially DDTar, as a solid Rock resist is essentially mandated to begin with, and these mons that lack similar defensive utility strain that already present weakness to fast Rock Slide. Adding a check to Aero in particular that can afford recovery would be nice.
Description: A Pokemon that can switch in on the Rock-type STAB of Tyranitar and Aerodactyl more than a couple of times, preferably one not weak to Ground (WishTect Rachi is fine, but passive, and ends up vulnerable to all but Choice-locked variants- other options we have, if any, have slipped my mind while writing- I don't think Breloom counts for much here haha) as most Rock types and mons that carry Rock coverage tend towards having Earthquake.
Justification: Oftentimes I find that new teambuilding options provided like the Ice types (Deli, Cryo, Aboma), Plusle, and Jumpluff end up super sensitive to Aerodactyl showing up on the opposing build. This can be mitigated as a flaw by good play and softer, less robust checks like Gliscor, Skarmory, Golurk and more, but it is for certain that most of the things that want to switch in on Aerodactyl would not necessarily want to do so vs Tyranitar, especially DDTar, as a solid Rock resist is essentially mandated to begin with, and these mons that lack similar defensive utility strain that already present weakness to fast Rock Slide. Adding a check to Aero in particular that can afford recovery would be nice.
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