After playing through the tournament and experimenting with all kinds of teams and Pokémon and expanded sets, I can say with confidence that I'm a really big fan of this PM - it stays faithful to the ADV OU tier upon which it's based on and has added some very cool features that have been fun to explore and learn about.
At first when playing this tier, I did think that there was a lot to take in and felt overwhelmed by the sheer amount of choice available. In fact, I spent a lot of time wrapping my head around how so many new additions could possibly salvage the tier it's based upon! But, after playing for a few weeks now and committing to both playtesting, messing around and also playing seriously in the tournaments, my worries about balancing in the tier have actually been calmed somewhat and I think the overall power levels of the tier are very close to respecting ADV OU's mantra. But let's put that all aside for now, let's discuss my arbitrary tier list~
TIER LIST:
I'm not a fan of tier lists whatsoever since they gloss over detail, but I think in this instance making one is great for giving new players a solid idea of the metagame and what the new threats look like.
Anything new to HG that I haven't listed is unviable at a glance - the "unviable" section of this list covers stuff that used to be useable in ADV OU and is now pushed out of viability due to new threats and / or being outclassed.
S:
Boy, Tyranitar truly seems to be holding the tier together almost entirely by itself. Pursuit sets are not its best sets, but they're almost mandatory in a tier crammed with so many ghosties and Will-o-Wisp users (and thus, by extension, the sheer amount of spikes flying around the place). Spikes Stack and Mixed Offence teams can run physical sets if they please as they usually contain the raw breaking power to push through the likes of Gengar, Jellicent and Girafarig, but Pursuit sets will still fit on those styles if there's no other way of pushing past a potential incoming burn.
My rules of thumb for building Pursuit Tyranitar:
- Max out SpA so you can deal as much damage as possible, max out HP so that you aren't OHKOed by Dugtrio.
- Pair with Magneton if your team has no reliable way of breaking past Skarmory or Forretress.
- Speed creep is nice if you're running Brick Break.
- Crunch is necessary to actually damage (defensive) Gengar, Jellicent, Uxie and Girafarig.
- Last two moves are mostly up in the air depending on what your team requires; Fire Blast hurts Metagross, Skarmory and other Steel types, Ice Beam is good for Salamence and Zapdos, Hidden Power Grass is good for weakening Swampert and opposing Tyranitar to put them in range of other stuff, Rock Slide is good for Cramorant Roserade and surprising Talonflame who hasn't scouted you fully, Brick Break is good for opposing Tyranitar, Clefable, Blissey and Cryogonal, alternatively Focus Punch hits hard and requires less prediction, finally Thunder can catch Cramorant by surprise and also potentially paralyse it.
Carry leftovers 99% of the time so that you can eat a burn and continue trucking. Blackglasses may be good on fast-paced teams.
A+++++:
Cramorant is insanely strong; probably on par with Tyranitar's level of game impact. It has the sheer persistence and versatility to fit on many kinds of teams due to Encore, Taunt, Recover, Baton Pass and Knock Off all being at its disposal. It's also hugely bulky and respectably fast, allowing it to get the catch on certain threats if it pleases. Gulp Missile makes it the only Mon in the game that can hurt you on the same turn that it heals itself.
Your standard set should always have Surf and Recover to 'Gulp-Missile-stall' the opponent and wear them down while fishing for a paralysis chance. More optionally, Taunt fits here well as it prevents the opponent setting up to OHKO you, as does Knock Off to remove Leftovers and prevent passive recovery. Further optional utility can be gained from running Encore and Baton Pass to maintain momentum for your teammates.
Max / Max HP + Defence is what I've been running; there's very likely room for optimisation here but Cramorant is so effective that I haven't felt motivation to look for it.
Uxie has unmatched utility; it's by far the best Heal Bell user in the tier, which, alongside its colossal bulk and 32 PP Recover allows it to outstall basically anything. Recover is about the only mandatory move - other utility comes from Knock Off, Encore, Thunder Wave, Calm Mind pass, dual screens, Memento, Trick might be interesting, even stuff like Yawn and Swagger likely has a good place on this Mon. Baton Pass allows you to deny pursuit from Tyranitar.
While Cramorant generally prefers slower teams, Uxie can fit on any team style.
Best spiker due to its blistering speed, access to Knock Off and consistent wall-breaking potential. The stat nerfs haven't been enough to water-down Deoxys; it still outspeeds nearly the entire metagame with zero investment and a +Speed nature. It can guarantee a spike layer versus anything bar opposing fast Taunt Deoxys (or a trigger-finger Regieleki). Bulky enough to survive most attacks with HP investment:
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 116-137 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 248-292 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 231-272 (75.9 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
It's also offensive enough to pressure a large portion of the metagame:
0 Atk Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 282-332 (69.8 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
164 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Roserade: 204-240 (67.1 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
164 SpA Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 350-412 (100.2 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Knock Off is great for punishing bulky switch-ins trying to absorb your attacks. There's a tonne of EV spreads that Deoxys can run depending on what you'd like out of the way for your cleaners to finish the game. Same for the moveset: all of Superpower, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam, Thunder(bolt), Psycho Boost are good. Surprise Fire Punch is nice for chipping the otherwise-safe Jirachi & Metagross switch-ins.
A+:
Good as ever, fits on as many teams as always. Choice Banded sets aren't scared of any of the above Mons. Bulky Toxic sets can more reliably handle Cramorant though.
Shadow Ball feels like the most important 4th move on the Choice Bands sets now.
Still the best spinblocker. Having to deal with Clefable TSS is no fun for it though. Maybe a Taunt Boom set looking forward will be one of the stronger sets. Too early for me to know - haven't played with Gengar a whole lot. Very solid all the same, though.
Fantastic lead option due to Sleep Powder + Spikes combo. Great spiker in general; isn't scared of Gengar and Starmie without Psychic due to its high bulk and Natural Cure ability. Not trapped by Magneton. Also completely walls a lot of Tyranitar variants and Deoxys without a strong Psycho Boost. Dugtrio is scared to come in due to random Sleep Powder / Giga Drain being thrown off.
Most of what handles Roserade is farther down the viability rankings, which makes it very strong amongst many of the common metagame threats. Stun Spore instead of sleep is also viable.
The God of Baton Pass teams. Also amazing offensively, which is why it's so good at luring in Blissey / Clef and Agility passing straight onto a physical attacker who's oven-ready to sweep. Zapdos just comes in and controls the tempo whenever it pleases - Thunderbolt is mandatory (and Hidden Power is nearly always needed), meaning your last slots can be any combination of Baton Pass, Roar, Substitute, Thunder Wave/Agility, Toxic, whatever your team needs.
A:
Skarmory's Dex page covers everything you need to know about this mon. Drill Peck and Taunt have very good genuine utility, especially in the face of Roserade and Uxie. It's still as good as ever.
Plays very similarly to DPP Clefable just lacking Knock Off from its movepool. This does hinder its utility a little bit, but there are 3 things missing from later gens that help Clefable excel in this tier: Choice Specs, Draco Meteor, and Heatran. Max Max HP & SpD walls everything except CMers and boom carriers (who are hard-pressed to try and catch you since you're spike-immune and synergise very effectively with Skarmory).
Always run Seismic Toss and Softboiled. Then for support you have a choice of Thunder Wave, Encore, Ice Beam and Wish. Encore is the ultimate CM stopper, Ice Beam can catch out Mixmence and generally be spammed for a freeze opportunity, Wish helps keep teammates healthy on balance as well as absorbing something like Charcoal Moltres Overheat spam. Sing is a funny tech but likely has some merit seeing how many free turns the pink blob generates.
Also a very good burn absorber and status absorber in general. Immune to full paralysis (but still drops speed). As mentioned earlier it walls Gengar without Taunt and entices them to explode (thus paving the way for spinners).
Last little thing worth mentioning is potential behind a CM BoltBeam Recover set with max Def - very potent as there's no need for substitutes to block status, and it can come in constantly due to spikes immunity and reliable recovery. Doesn't hit that hard though as Clefable's SpA isn't that great and lacks STAB. Some speed creep to get above 160 is worth it.
Swampert's defensive sets are back with a bang. Very good at controlling the tempo of the tier's physical attackers. EQ + Ice Beam hits a lot of things, and monopert with Surf and Refresh can reverse pressure. Roar is extremely important for managing baton pass chains from spiralling, Toxic is good for preventing the opponent from outstalling you, Protect allows you to heal in sand and scout CB attacks on occasion. You're a crit-magnet though, so don't take the **** too much or you risk being punished.
Fruhdazi and I have also tested a Curse EQ / Ice Beam set alongside Heal Bell support which effectively pressures a tonne of stuff. Sounds gimmicky but has genuine merit on the right teams.
Really cool addition in my opinion - gives an extra dimension to balance / stall teams as a ghost type with recovery and impressive defences. Possibly the best Metagross check in the game. Pairs very well with Roserade and/or Celebi who can provide it with Leech Seed sustinence and allow it to reliably spinblock with Sleep Powder or Baton Pass.
Trying not to get randomly Toxiced is a nightmare, but if you can avoid that then Jellicent can do a lot of work. Wisp and Recover are mandatory, you have Taunt which is great for shutting down an incoming Toxic user, Surf or Night Shade for dealing reliable damage. Rain Dance weather reset might be a good option for teams who really benefit from the sandstorm being gone.
A-:
Haven't tested it much but from what I've seen it's just as viable as ever. Jirachi kind of does its own thing most games; most of the metagame evolving around it hasn't changed the way it works. Likes sitting on all these Taunt shenanigans if it can come in, outspeed and get behind a Substitute quickly.
Probably ranking this higher than many would expect, but a spike-immune Mon with Fire STAB and reliable recovery is insane. Comes in on Skarmory and Will-o-Wisps whatever the check is, if a Fire type is expected then it Rapid Spins. Blazing fast and has HP Flying for disposing Roserade. Lum Berry is a funny item that you can use to deny turn-1 sleep from Roserade and threaten a KO, effectively reversing the momentum.
Same old Mence, really. It has the toolkit to dispose of many threats with DD, Banded and Mixed sets. It has a hard time breaking stuff with all the recovery distribution, meaning it has a harder time finding a slot on all but the most offensive of teams. But it has good role compression that mixed offence teams can appreciate.
Absolute bastion of hail-centric teams. Ice Body + Leftovers = 25% recovery in Hail, meaning you can set up Subtitutes, Calm Mind up, and start blasting the opponent with Ice Beam nukes. Recover is a useful 4th option in the event of a weather reset as well as just generally keeping momentum going as you sweep. You're also naturally fast which means that you can outspeed Tyranitar coming in to reset the sand and 2hko it with ease with speed investment. Appreciates Dugtrio as a partner.
Optionally away from Hail, you can run Compoundeyes Lovely Kiss and act like a Jynx-lite with a nuke Blizzard. Hydro Pump drowns Metagross and Tyranitar. Haven't used it but it sounds like a very powerful and annoying lead for hyper-offence to use.
Best overall spinner as it's not afraid of Cramorant or Jellicent (and Tyranitar usually doesn't like switching in) and has very potent type coverage. Hydro Pump + Thunderbolt + Psychic is what I like to run personally, though Ice Beam and Thunder Wave are also great depending on what team support you're running.
Defensive sets don't care about Cramorant either, but Taunt + Night Shade Jelli will annoy the heck out of you. Being trapped and outsped by Dugtrio also sucks big time.
B+:
Absolutely hilarious on paper, at least. Seems like it will go buckwild along with Pursuit support and a Magneton, though haven't tested this team style. Base 125 speed + Encore + Focus Punch + Spikes assistance allows you to be an annoying asshole. Dugtrio can't trap it as it's too fast, status (especially Paralysis) won't stick to it as it has Natural Cure. Encore + Focus Punch + Sky Uppercut + Return is the wombo combo - you can also run Shadow Ball for additional coverage. Choice Band also exists and can carry Trick to cripple Girafarig and Skarmory.
I hate putting Rhyperior up so high but it can't be ignored. On its own it's around C rank, but with Agility support it's S rank (genuinely). Pair it with Zapdos to lure special walls, Agility up and then Baton Pass into this thing while blocking Thunder Wave. 404 HP Substitutes can be created with EV investment, +2 Jolly can outspeed nearly everything. Pour the rest into attack. Swords Dance + Substitute + Earthquake + Rock Slide is the best set; Mold Breaker means that the only Mon now capable of walling you is Chesnaught (which I regard unviable otherwise) as Skarmory takes about 50% from a +2 Rock Slide and fears the flinch.
Once this thing gets going you can only really stop it with a bulky Swampert with Roar or a Whirlwind Skarmory (which still fears flinches and crits). Nothing else can stop it and it out-offences all offence teams with just 2 slots on a team. Scary stuff.
Loves seeing HP Bug being less common everywhere, but otherwise has a hard time dealing with stuff like Clefable and Taunt. Has to compete with the superior Uxie for a team slot. Still very good though, could easily move up in viability with further progression.
Mother of all enablers, especially on special offence. Loves to see the new stuff it can trap (including opposing Alolan-Dugtrio). Overall probably the best Dugtrio, but if you plan to drop below 350 speed for bulk then Alolan-Dugtrio is superior due to its fantastic typing.
Great BP recipient but I'm not a fan of it otherwise. Has great defensive typing, is immune to spikes and EQ and has a potent movepool, but struggles to survive just being attacked due to its middling bulk and has a hard time OHKOing anything. It's also naturally too slow to be a threat by itself. However, with chip and CM Agilipass it's very strong. Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Giga Drain and Superpower seems like the most consistent set. Don't use Expert Belt as you need Leftovers to not die within 2 turns of being on the field.
B:
Nothing hugely different for Suicune. However the meta is very offensively oriented and it struggles with all of the Knock Offs, Taunts and even Explosions being everywhere, so it has a hard time accomplishing anything in a lot of matchups.
Worth exploring more for sure - I've wavered constantly between whether or not this Dugtrio is better than the Kanto one. For now I think it's overall worse as it reveals that you're slower than Starmie, +1 Tyranitar and Raikou; all massive targets for Dugtrio to remove.
Don't overjudge those downsides though, the additional Steel typing is incredibly useful defensively.
Don't try any fancy HP Steel movesets - this thing runs the same moves as Kanto Dugtrio.
Worse Clefable since it's hurt by Spikes and weather. Nearly everything above it in VR has a way of beating it. No offensive prowess - Ice Beams do less damage than Clefable as well. Can't stand being Knocked Off.
Cringe.
Can see Stunfisk-G being a metagame staple - that defensive typing alongside Protean is too good. Bulky as heck - nothing can effectively OHKO it without setting up first. Haven't had a chance to test it as of yet.
Crazy movepool and good bulk, shame that it can't hold Leftovers without taking weather damage though. All types get BoltBeam coverage. Electric deserves exploration as Multi Attack and Ice Beam will chunk on Agilipass Teams. No reliable Recovery whatsoever means you're on a timer; you need to pick between being weak to weather (Flying) or weak to Spikes (Steel). Ghost doesn't seem viable to me due to constant chip.
Another great CM Agilipass recipient. Can run BoltBeam, HP Fire, Recover, Agility, whatever.
Ema Skye demonstrated Mawile's effectiveness to me and how effective it is at denying DD setup with the combination of Intimidate, Knock Off, Recover and Lunge. Could easily become a metagame staple as I can see it fitting on many teams.
BP chain staple, decent CM passer. Fruhdazi hilariously won versus me in like 2 turns due to coming in on my Magneton, trapping it with Trace, blocking Toxic with Substitute and CMing up 6 times while I couldn't do anything at all.
Haven't tested it outside of this, but it gets Rapid Spin and a few other utility moves. Seems outclassed by Glaceon overall for a non-BP role.
B-:
Same best friends as before, especially with Pursuit Tyranitar being such a household name. Otherwise pairs well with Lopunny, Metagross, Snorlax, Galarian-Zapdos, Gyarados, (physical) Salamence, Hitmonlee. I just think it struggles for a team slot more than ever, seeing as how easy it is to passively ruin Skarmory by using Cramorant-style teams instead. Still good at checking Metagross, though.
Endure Salac HP Fire beats Alolan-Dugtrio.
Deserves exploration. It's basically a Gengar that can't spinblock and has bigger nukes instead of Will-o-Wisp. STAB Volt Tackle alongside base 110 speed is nothing to scoff at.
A massive pain for balance teams to deal with. Levitate + Knock Off + Recover + STAB Ice Beam + Rapid Spin. Can easily win longer games by eventually freezing something and enabling its teammates with the free turns gained. Haven't used it myself yet but I think it's worth a try.
Jack of all trades, master of none. Forretress is already pretty controversial in most other tiers it exists in, as it's compressed utility and little else. You can spike and spin but you're forever walled by Skarmory. Roserade with HP Fire doesn't respect it. Clefable doesn't respect it and lures boom. Talonflame absolutely does not respect it. Magneton has a chance to OHKO you with Modest HP Fire. If you can avoid the immediate threats, though, Forretress is potent. It doesn't care a huge amount for being Taunted and heals in sandstorm, being Knocked Off isn't ideal but the looming Explosion means that you still pack momentum for your teammates despite being on a timer.
Will-o-Wisp distribution has hampered Moltres' niche. It doesn't appreciate Cramorant or Uxie's existences, either. Clefable is a massive pain for it to deal with. Might in fact be even less viable than B-.
Haven't explored it for myself yet, but I've seen it do some wild stuff. Chlorophyl + Sunny Beam + Weather Ball + HP Ice / Growth can likely sweep with the right support.
Will-o-Wisp, Knock Off, Recovery all Lax less prevalent but it's still decent. Having to deal with Jellicent wall it and Alolan-Dugtrio, Lopunny, Deoxys (Superpower) all being able to severely damage it aren't nice. 4 attacks Leftovers is likely the best set given the landscape.
This thing is really weird, even after a few weeks I still can't wrap my head around what it's supposed to do. It's fast as crap but
still gets handled by Dugtrio, meaning it can't actually support its teammates on certain matchups. Probably some potential somewhere for such a blazing fast Mon, but for now I think it's fringe viable.
C and Below:
Not really feeling covering these Mons in any detail, some of them have a lot of potential to move up and others are just looking worse as the metagame develops. I'm gonna highlight a few notable Mons that I think have the potential to be viable:
Earthquake, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, Rest. Good for stall and loves Pursuit support. Toxic could also be used as 4th, or even Hidden Power Rock.
Good on BP chains. Low Kick + Drill Peck is great coverage in theory but it struggles to actually do anything in practice. Hates status like the plague. Might be missing something obvious with this one.
Still good. Just falls off in viability in response to its buddy Magneton being harder to fit, as well as hating the same things that Lax also hates, i.e. Knock Off, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp.
Still good on BP.
This thing having a niche is terrifying. It quad-resists Rock Slide, meaning it can actually pivot despite having one of the worst defensive stats in the game. It's also immune to Electric and Poison attacks! Double trap teams with a Kanto Dugtrio can punish passivity extremely well.
Great movepool and decent speed, very frail though.
Genuinely a little scary. Walls every Swampert (without Rock Slide) and gets a free guaranteed sleep. Outspeeds a tonne of stuff with base 75 speed. Spinblocks with Ghost typing. Threatens Starmie OHKO with Lunge and high attack stat. Pressures Uxie with minimal effort. Provides team sustinence with Aromatherapy.
To be honest I only noticed this thing existed last night, but it's outright dangerous on paper.
It might be underwhelming, but I think new Stantler just about has enough stats to pose a threat to stuff with Earthquake + Ice Beam and base 95 Speed. Hidden Power Rock is nice for stuff like Cramorant, Gyarados and Cyrogonal.
Incredible nuisance. Looks like it can wall and freeze half the damn tier on its own.
Special attacker Snorlax.
Weather immune, spikes immune, fast sleeper, rapid spinner, Baton Pass to scout your opponent's intentions, Leech Seed to be annoying. Honestly looks extremely good.
Thoughts:
Hoenn Gaiden is great fun! I wouldn't be playing it and writing about it in such detail if I didn't believe so. But I do think there are improvements that can be made. Below I'm going to list choices that I perceive to go against the ADV generation's mantra, and also some things that are seemingly overpowered within the tier and deserve at least a suspect test.
The ADV Mantra:
Apologies for uttering the term "mantra" several times like some nutter, but what I'm referring to is the intial game design and philosophy that The Pokémon Company implemented into their games when designing Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald.
The first example I'll get into is
Knock Off. The designers and developers didn't anticipate for how strong Knock Off was as a move, and for nearly all of 2000's competitive Pokémon, even Smogon didn't really pay any attention to removing the opponent's item. Knock Off was also was not distributed outside of level up + breeding until Platinum, meaning that the only
new additions that should logically obtain Knock Off are:
Gliscor, Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Gliscor, Sirfetch'd, Obstagoon, Alolan-Muk
The above is based on whether the Pokémon could learn this move by level-up or through breeding in its debut generation.
Increasing the distribution of this move is something I can get behind, but I feel like the current level of distribution is overboard, possibly in attempts to carve niches for new additions. Something akin to Donphan gaining Knock Off is interesting and increases its potential; whereas something like Uxie having it harms the tier and reduces the viability of certain Pokemon.
Will-o-Wisp has fallen victim in a similar fashion here. Will-o-Wisp was scarce in ADV OU due to no move tutor or TM availability. It's an incredibly powerful move and its distribution shapes ADV OU. Will-o-Wisp does 1/8 max HP in gen 3, meaning the additional distribution completely nullifies many physical attackers who'd otherwise team up with Pursuit Tyranitar to remove the Gengar (the by-far-and-away best Will-o-Wisp user). But Tyranitar has its work cut out here and due to the amount of potential burn users, it can't consistently support the likes of Curse Snorlax and Dragon Dance Salamence like how it used to. This corners physical offence teams into running a tonne of support in order to keep the win-con Pokémon alive and healthy.
Rapid Spin is another move which is affected by over-distribution. Currently, 25 fully evolved Pokémon are able to learn this move in comparison to ADV OU's 14 fully evolved Pokémon. Some of these Mons are crammed with so much utility that they can run both Rapid Spin and Knock off on the same set (something not possible previously). Heck, Cryogonal is so efficient at its role that it can avoid spikes, Recover, Rapid Spin
and Knock Off.
The amount of
Recovery distribution is the last thing I'd like to cover and probably shapes the metagame as a whole far more than the other raised distributions that I talked about. It also compounds the problems of the above distributions by patching over otherwise-problems by throwing a move into a pool to help with sustinence where it otherwise wouldn't be necessary.
ADV OU, at its core, is a tier where you try to scurry every little advantage that you can. This usually means you can run Protect on your sand-immune Mons so that they can heal slightly in the face of constant sandstorm. Anything else that is buffeted by the sandstorm? Too bad, you deal with it and hold leftovers to negate the damage. Mons that run Recovery hold their own disadvantages - Starmie is frail, Milotic is passive and easily taken advantage of, Blissey has very little offensive prowess, Celebi has moveslot syndrome and otherwise sub-par typing (but otherwise the only exception to the rule and a very good Recovery user), Porygon2 is also passive and hard to fit onto teams. No other Recovery users are considered viable.
Adding Recovery distribution fixed a problem that didn't initially exist. In ADV OU, progress is progress, and Wish passing can be very easily exploited. However, in Hoenn Gaiden, nearly everything has some way of mitigating the opponent's progress. The move Recover has a mind-numbing 32 PP, which is higher than many attacks that Pokémon run in this tier. I think the combination of Knock Off, Recovery and Will-o-Wisp has caused a squeeze along the VR which means that even though Tyranitar is more limited than ever, he's paradoxically more essential than ever to at least slow down the progress of Recovery spam undoing his sandstorm work.
Leech Seed is a move I've conveniently ignored in this paragraph, but it can be switched out from. Usually you can pair this with Spikes support to put additional pressure on the opponent, which leads me on to my REAL last thing I'd like to cover:
Spikes has also seen a massive uptake in distribution against the mantra. ADV OU has 3 viable spikes users; Skarmory, Forretress and sometimes Cloyster. It's a move that a whopping 8 fully evolved Pokémon get in ADV OU. You'll notice that the 3 viable Spikes users are absolutely not fans of Magneton for one reason or another, Cloyster less so, although Cloyster is frail and much more difficult to get in safely.
Hoenn Gaiden has raised the number of Spikes users to 22. This along with all the Ghost types and Rapid Spin users honestly means that you may as well run some Spikes user on most of your teams since there is no drawback to doing so. As discussed earlier Deoxys fits on all kinds of teams and can guarantee a Spike 99% of the time. As a result, the two most effective team styles I've always been building are either Spikes Offence or Spikes Stall (bar Baton Pass teams which I will get to later) - I have very little else to consider when hazards are so accessible.
Anyway, that's about it, I don't really have much more to comment on yet but I'd like to say that I don't regard all of these points as bad or problematic, but moreso that they fly directly against the wind of ADV's philosophy and design.
The Problematic Pokémon:
5 of these 6 guys have something in common. They're all either nearly impossible to break or they're far too good on Baton Pass teams. Cramorant, Uxie and Clefable are the three best defensive Mons in the tier and can outstall almost everything with Recovery, Knock off and paralysis. Rhyperior and Porygon-Z are insanely effective BP recipients.
If I had to make a decision on the spot, I say we quickban both Uxie and Cramorant. Neither of them contribute anything healthy to the metagame. Uxie is able to completely negate status progress in the way of burns and poison with Heal Bell, and Cramorant completely blanks a gigantic portion of the metagame.
Rhyperior and Porygon-Z don't offer anything healthy in this tier, their stats are far beyond any traditional ADV Pokémon and they're either destined to be overwhelming with Baton Pass support, or to be unviable. People have been talking about a Baton Pass clause to limit these guys and others, but wouldn't this cut off the ties that this tier has to ADV OU as a "sequel", of sorts?
Deoxys is the least obviously overpowered Mon in this tier. I think it opens up some playstyles that were otherwise not possible to use, however until we deal with the other immediate problems I don't think it's fair to touch this thing just yet. Clefable is also less obviously overpowered, but I think it has far more going for it as a defensive Pokémon than is initially obvious.
As time goes on I feel that there may be other stuff that creeps up to the top, but at the moment these guys are definitely worth keeping an eye on.
Conclusion:
Umm, this tier is great, tell your friends, family, neighbours, /r/stunfisk, inject code into pop-up viruses, yada yada. I'm open to PMs and Discord to test out ideas, build teams, talk about anything Hoenn Gaiden-related and get this metagame on the radar.
I'll make a post later about the tournament and the teams that I used too. Catch you later!