Metagame Hot Potato

After discussion, and Pendragon reminding me that Lagging Tail exists, I have decided to quickban Perish Song. Also, Celebi has recovery options, and a resttalk set with perish song and an attacking move would be absolutely nightmarish, random and skill-less
 
New page so I feel it's appropriate for me to reput this as it could be good

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
IVs: 0 Atk
- Curse
Or any other curse mon reduce speed them kill them next turn even just remove speed with bullet punch in one shot or 2 shot kills.
Edit: Ooooohhhh noooo sweet scent is -2evasion learned by multiple contrary pokemon.

also imagine psych up infiltrating evasion boosts from a serperior so satisfying.also heart swap magearna forces serp out.

Anti meta fini with standard mons would be a thing even though that can lower some fun concepts use it still has a fun concept because stuff like victini stats passing still works vs anti meta teams this could be a professional metagame. Misty terrain sounds useful as a move same with fini. Toxic spam teams still can find ways to beat that imo with quality playing.

also I think with the right coding can we make it so contrary does not raise passed stats for some of the stuff mentioned above lowers bans.
 
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This meta presents a lot of interesting battles, actually, and forces you to be a lot more mindful of the game state.

Burning a Poison Healer is one thing, but keeping that Burn from being passed on to a Pokemon that's vulnerable to it is another.
Using a Guts Pokemon that passes its Burn with a strong hit is one thing, but making sure the Pokemon you pass it to can't benefit from it and hinder the rest of your team is another.
And so forth.

Passing these debuffs and statuses is like a double-edged sword, and really keeps you on your toes.

I like this idea a lot, and it's very unique! Not to mention leading the way for a lot of cool Mashups

Persian-Alola
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot

Silvally @ Something
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot

Into-

Bisharp @ Focus Sash / Whatever
Ability: Defiant
EVs: Something
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch

Some Contrary User.

This probably doesn't work well in practice, but it was just a neat little trick I thought of.
Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Liquidation
- Rock Blast

Pass the dropped defenses and decimate whatever's in front of you. Not even resists can hope to wall 4 spears at half defenses (probably), and if they threaten you with burning you can simply switch out to a Burn check, with little fear of Rocks due to the often self-detrimental value of hazards as a whole, and restarting the process as long as you can.
Malamar @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Superpower
- Psycho Cut

Malamar certainly appreciates this new somewhat viable recovery, able to act as a physical demon without dying too fast, as well as being unfazed by Burning as a result. Only issue is, with the increased amount of Orb users this combo won't work out as much if the status isn't cured. If it is, then have a field day.
Now, if only more Pokemon got Purify...
 
I'm wondering, why are only stat drops transferred? Sure, it would nerf all setup attackers, but it is only consistent to either pass stat buffs or not pass stat drops. This also conveniently fixes problems with Contrary and (to a lesser extent) Defiant/Competitive.
 
Anaconja said:
I'm wondering, why are only stat drops transferred? Sure, it would nerf all setup attackers, but it is only consistent to either pass stat buffs or not pass stat drops. This also conveniently fixes problems with Contrary and (to a lesser extent) Defiant/Competitive.
Click to expand...
I like to think a 'Hot Potato' being something bad that you want to get rid of. Stat buffs aren't bad, so you wouldn't get rid of them.

Contrary doesn't have many glaring issues to me, at least in the moment. After all, it makes them vulnerable to the Status side of the metagame, which will definitely be a part of many teams. Sweet Scent should probably be quickbanned, though, seeing as it boosts the Evasion of contrary users and all.
 
Indirect evasion boosting through the use of a contrary user being passed stat drops will be looked at after the meta is up and running.

To get the negative stats requires your opponent to actually attack you and for you to take damage, which most would avoid if possible and which kinda defeats the purpose of attempting to get evasion, at least at first. Something could happen where Serperior defogs, his opponents sets up and ohkos the next turn, knocking out the opponent and not transferring the evasion drop.

Because getting the evasion boost relies on your opponent cooperating, it could be some kind of noob wall, like Imposter Chansey is in BH or Mega Lopunny in 1v1. However, if this proves too hard to predict, or if the benefits are too much if its pulled off, it will be banned.
 
Imprison sounds like it shouldn't be passable... It's a self-targeting move, not one that targets the opponent. So long as the user of Imprison remains on the field no foe can use the imprisoned moves, not vice-versa.

Magearna @ Electrium Z / Anything
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Shift Gear
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / Anything

It's just Magearna... a top threat in OU that appreciates the boost in Fleur Cannon's consistency in this meta. You can just click it quite freely so running Fairium is less necessary.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Band
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyperspace Fury
- Drain Punch / Zen Headbutt
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch

A tremendous wallbreaker. Switching in on Hoopa's Hyperspace Fury is a tall order as anything slower than it will be hit with another, even stronger one right after. In fact Hoopa is so strong that it can always 2HKO CB Tyranitar with Hyperspace Fury after rocks damage which is.... concerning.

Pangoro @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot / Ice Punch

Another great wallbreaker: thanks to Scrappy you can just click Superpower without a care. Be careful with Parting Shot as it can backfire on you in certain situations. You are weak to Fighting though which leaves you vulnerable to opposing Superpowers.

Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Bullet Punch

You may wonder, why use Hariyama over Conkeldurr? The reason is cause you can use Fake Out to basically burn your opponent for free before they can move. Conkeldurr can use Mach Punch but it's often less risk-free as you'll be vulnerable for that turn. Besides that Hariyama gets mostly similar moves and stats, no Drain Punch or Mach Punch but can use Bullet Punch for a one-two priority combo.

Omari L (Crustle) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor

Shell Smash was already mentioned and I think it can be quite strong here, especially if multi-hit moves (like Rock Blast) allow the pokemon's secondary hits to take advantage of the defense drops. But Weak Armor has not yet been mentioned as another means to pass off defense debuffs onto the opponent.

Milotic @ Leftovers / Flame Orb / Toxic Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale / Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest / Recover
- Sleep Talk / Anything
- Scald
- Ice Beam / Whatever

Milotic is cool and has a lot of potential utility. First off, Marvel Scale is a useful ability to deal with status spreading, buffing Defense if you are inflicted with status. You can also run Flame Orb or Toxic Orb to get the defense boost while also passing status to your foes. Rest is also great because it counts for Marvel Scale and you can pass it to your foes. A more classic Recover set is possible too for reliable and instant recovery in one moveslot. Milotic's other potential ability is Competitive which is excellent for dealing with stat debuffing moves, counteracting the effects of moves like Draco Meteor and actually turning the tables on the opponent when hit by moves like Superpower. Overall there is a lot you can do with this mon.

edit: according to the dragonheaven code passed stat reductions don't trigger competitive (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7hotpotato-6234)
 
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A very early version of Hot Potato

Playable on Dragonheaven

mods/hotpotato/scripts.js
Code: 
{
		name: "[Gen 7] Hot Potato",
		desc: `Moves that deal direct damage to an opponent will 'pass' any hazard, status/volatile effects and stat debuffs currently on your side or Pokemon to your opponent's.`,
		threads: [
			`&bullet; <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3643676/">Hot Potato</a>`,
		],

		mod: 'hotpotato',
		ruleset: ['[Gen 7] OU'],
		banlist: ['Blast Burn', 'Frenzy Plant', 'Giga Impact', 'Hydro Cannon', 'Hyper Beam', 'Perish Song', 'Prismatic Laser', 'Roar of Time', 'Rock Wrecker'],
	},
Pls note that since this is an early version, it may have bugs
edit; correct replay added
 
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Hmmmm

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpDef
Sassy Nature
- Infestation
- Shell Smash
- Knock Off
- Toxic

A WIP, but fun fact: Infestation makes Contact.
The idea? Shell Smash, boosting your defenses, then Infestation. Traps the opponent then gives them the stat drops. Sit there and stall.
Is this right? Contact moves give debuffs that you have?
 
Spandan said:
A very early version of Hot Potato

Playable on Dragonheaven

mods/hotpotato/scripts.js
Code: 
{
        name: "[Gen 7] Hot Potato",
        desc: `Moves that deal direct damage to an opponent will 'pass' any hazard, status/volatile effects and stat debuffs currently on your side or Pokemon to your opponent's.`,
        threads: [
            `&bullet; <a href="https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3643676/">Hot Potato</a>`,
        ],

        mod: 'hotpotato',
        ruleset: ['[Gen 7] OU'],
        banlist: ['Blast Burn', 'Frenzy Plant', 'Giga Impact', 'Hydro Cannon', 'Hyper Beam', 'Perish Song', 'Prismatic Laser', 'Roar of Time', 'Rock Wrecker'],
    },
Pls note that since this is an early version, it may have bugs
edit; correct replay added
Click to expand...

This is awesome; thank you very much!
 
Yes
TDA said:
This seems problematic but, in my opinion, its balanced out by turn order. If you attack first, then you do transfer the stat drops, but when your opponent attacks you, you'll get them right back. If you attack second, then you've already let your opponent attack you or set up
Click to expand...

but if you pack Contrary then you get a stat BOOST well your opponent gets a stat drop
 
I think we should all make a team and host a minitour to experiment the metagame if possible.

Yall should pipe up
Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
- Moonlight
- Psychic

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Trick Room
- Foul Play

Chandelure @ Firium Z
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast

Cloyster @ Normalium Z
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Liquidation
- Explosion

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Flash Cannon
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Conversion

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Pursuit

Crobat @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Curse

Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Strike
- V-create
- Trick
- U-turn

Greninja-Ash @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump

fun stuff not posting my super try hard team i will use.
 
Hey everyone, Monsareeasy has suggested initially unbanning Aegislash. This would be interesting because any attack drops given to it through kings shield would be resupplied to aegislash before it attacks, if the opponent attacks. This would result in either Aegislash being unviable physically or force it to run specially offensive sets. What are your thoughts? Should it be unbanned or should it stay banned?
 
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TDA said:
Hey everyone, Monsareeasy has suggested initially unbanning Aegislash. This would be interesting because any attack drops given to it through kings shield would be resupplied to aegislash before it attacks, if the opponent attacks. This would result in either Aegislash being unviable physically or force it to run specially offensive sets. What are your thoughts? Should it be unbanned or should it stay banned?
Click to expand...

I could see something like in bss with like sacred sword shadow sneak and shadow ball but most special tanks still wall that. Also victini is what seems like one of the most common pokemon and if it comes in can extremely pressure ur team although not a counter. Many other fire and ground mons check / counter it. Also i agree with most of the above.
 
TDA said:
Hey everyone, Monsareeasy has suggested initially unbanning Aegislash. This would be interesting because any attack drops given to it through kings shield would be resupplied to aegislash before it attacks, if the opponent attacks. This would result in either Aegislash being unviable physically or force it to run specially offensive sets. What are your thoughts? Should it be unbanned or should it stay banned?
Click to expand...
unban
 
Unban.

As a secondary note, somebody mentioned Gliscor earlier, and I actually think it's worse here. If it attacks second it nullifies its healing for the turn, and aside from toxic orb passing it doesn't get much to pass.
 
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