Gen 5 Hovering between 1300-1400 with my DragMag team, how should I improve?

[Tbolt]

I'm not too well-versed in creating sets for Pokemon, so most of my teams are based off Smogon sets. Any recommendations for how I should change my team (or improve my current members) in order to be able to play more consistently?

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Ran Scizor because it deals well with many foes to my Steels and Dragons, namely the Latis and Ttar. Heatran is annoying for it (and my entire team lol) but I haven't seen it too commonly so it's not the largest threat to my team. I've also occasionally used Leftovers Jirachi (from the BKC video) and it also performs well against the Latis, but I prefer Scizor's immediate pressure against Psychic types.

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake

I knew Mamo was great for killing other Dragons (and being able to kill Scarf Chomp and Latios is vital for this team) so it was a near immediate addition. Dancing around Keldeo is annoying but the tradeoff is worth it. My only hesitancy on this set is dropping Stealth Rock for Superpower when I play with Jirachi, and the choice between Icicle Crash vs Icicle Spear (personally prefer Crash because of the consistent damage).

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I initially ran Specs Mag, and even after watching BKC's video recommending Air Balloon Magnet Rise Mag, I still use Specs because of the sheer power against mons that would ordinarily like switching in against Magnezone (namely Excadrill). Additionally, preventing the extra layer of Spikes against Ferrothorn is really nice since Scizor/Jirachi and Mag love spamming U-turn/Volt Switch. Thundurus-T is annoying but can be played around with my Dragons.

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock

I needed a Special Dragon for the team and what better is there than Latios? The power of Specs Latios is incredible, if the opposing Ttar isn't a bulky set, it can even 2HKO Tar on the switch with Surf. Latios needs the power from Specs to be able to punch holes in opponents, so late in the game, Scarfers can be a problem for my Dragons, especially if they have over 108 speed.

Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

I like Salamence, and its ability to clean up teams that let it run wild is crazy, but its SR weakness doesn't make it consistently useful against offense, since it'll get worn down by hazards. Considering using Scarf Chomp or even Scarf Keldeo, but if you have recommendations for a different Mence set, I would love to use this Moxie dragon.

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam

In hindsight, pairing SR-weak dragons isn't a good idea. Most people don't even expect Scarf KB though, which allows me to revenge-kill a Specs Keldeo or Latios. Maybe I should change the nature, or I could even try using Haxorus (since it doesn't have the SR weakness), but KB is pretty good.

Anyway, this team tends to struggle with Sun teams (especially since my two main SR setters are weak to Fire), Cresselia, and fast Scarfers late game (namely Keldeo, Latios, and Garchomp), but I have answers to most things rain and sand teams can do, and Mamo destroys other DragMag teams.

Edit: forgot to mention that this team struggles against most setup sweepers in the wrong matchup (Magnezone vs SubSD Chomp for instance)

 

[Gamer1234556]

Having 5 Choice users means that Protect-Spam completely suffocates this team. Not to mention that dancing around Rotom-W would be obnoxious with this team.

Shuca Berry Rachi > Scizor since it gives you a more reliable SR setter and improves your MU against Rain. It also has enough bulk to switch into Latios's attacks and allows you to play mind games against Bulky Lando-T.

I would also replace your Mamoswine Set with Sub so that Rotom-W doesn't annoy you to death. Sub also great since you don't get worn down and can really take advantage of Swine's offensive presence.

Air Balloon Magnezone > Specs Magnezone so that Zone can actually trap Excadrill. Sunny Day is great so that Rain doesn't become a problem.

Dragonite > Salamence as it makes your team less prediction reliant against stuff like Ferrothorn, Gliscor, and Excadrill. Multiscale is very clutch against Zam and doesn't force to stack up on Scarf Users to beat it.

I would replace your Latios set with the Scarf Set to improve your MU against Zam and opposing Dragmag.

Finally, I would replace the Kyu-B set with Choice Band/Substitute, but that's really my personal preference.

I have a modified import of your team here:

https://pokepast.es/fc2ddb7ac9a14df9

 

[Tbolt]

Shuca Berry Rachi > Scizor

I've tried using Shuca Berry Rachi at first but found it was really passive against sand, but maybe my set was wrong. I'll give Shuca Rachi another shot

I would also replace your Mamoswine Set with Sub so that Rotom-W doesn't annoy you to death. Sub also great since you don't get worn down and can really take advantage of Swine's offensive presence.

I've never thought of using SubSwine, but I kinda like the idea of Substitute on Mamo.

Air Balloon Magnezone > Specs Magnezone

Idk I've always used Specs to surprise opponents, but Air Balloon will probably give more consistency. That'll be one of the last things I'll test, once I've tried all of your other suggestions. I haven't had too many issues w/ Rain but Sun is probably good against Keldeo.

Dragonite > Salamence

Never tried Dragonite, but maybe it'll be more overall useful than Mence (since it can sometimes just be death fodder)

replace your Latios set with the Scarf

My vocabulary doesn't contain the word 'overkill'.

Thanks for the advice on the team, I'll try out the changes and see how it'll fare!

 

[Gamer1234556]

Idk I've always used Specs to surprise opponents, but Air Balloon will probably give more consistency. That'll be one of the last things I'll test, once I've tried all of your other suggestions. I haven't had too many issues w/ Rain but Sun is probably good against Keldeo.

The drastic difference in the Drill matchup is just far too important. The fact that you are able to freely pivot into Drill's Earthquakes (unless you get unlucky with IH's flinch rate) greatly improves your MU against Sand. Another thing to consider is that Ferro is often seen in Rain, which means that it would take longer for Zone to get rid of Ferro. Like I said earlier, being able to switch the weather is huge against Rain, particularly against stuff like Tentacruel and Thundurus-Therian.

 

[Lord Wallace]

The first big change I'd make here to improve your matchup against sand offense (which HO should have the advantage over) and rain slightly is to make your Scizor a Scarf set instead, coupled with a few more changes that accommodate for this.
Its kinda normal for Dragmags to crumple to Latios and I'm not about to go against the vibe of your team and suggest a really defensive measure like a bulky Jirachi to deal with this (though some Dragmags do run it).
Instead, I'm at least going to improve your consistency in the matchups against the Specs and Dragon Gem variants of Latios that your team just sacks to every time, with an unexpected outspeed and OHKO after rocks with U-turn at best, and switch initiative at worst which your team can capitalize on better than any other style. Scarf is slightly safer against these Latios than your Bander after a sack too, since there are now less scenarios where a crit Draco from Specs just kills you anyway, and yes this will kill your max HP Sciz, I calced. Speaking of that, the bulk investment on Scizor doesnt do too much of note even on the Bander, Latios is still 2HKOing with Surf and its actually still possible that Draco will 2HKO (guaranteed after sneaky pebbles). You really just don't tank much of anything crucial with the HP investment to justify getting Blasted by speed invested Tars, Wisped by every Rotom, Punched by every Loom, and Scalded by every Toed/Jellicent, etc before U-Turning out.. Even if you decide to keep Banded consider running some speed.
More importantly though, the scarf guy immensely improves your consistency against Sand staples Excadrill and Alakazam, which are ubiquitous in today's metagame and are worth getting the jump on alone, in addition to surprise KOing less common threats like Heatran, Hydreigon, and Starmie that may not mind staying in on a BP to get rid of Sciz.

Honestly though, if you really wanna play freaky and make this team stand out from the crowd while still improving your matchups, give Wing Attack a try on that Scarf Scizor. What's that? Keldeo is pivoting in on Bullet Punch or U-Turn to collect a kill? No it isnt, Wing Attack does 66 min, making it ironically a decent revenge option on weathered Keldeos if your Latios is down or weakened, who'd have thunk. Volcarona isnt an awful matchup for you at the moment but why even let it do anything? Wing Attack has a possibility to OHKO Volcs with no bulk, which granted isnt common, but only the bulkiest of Volcs will escape a 2HKO from a predicted switch in on Wing Attack. Not a single Breloom on this planet will live this attack. Infernape is rare but this set has its number too. You'd probably have to drop Pursuit for it though, which is a bit rough, so this one's your call. The instant clap on Keldeo, one of the biggest threats in the tier and to you, is just so satisfying though.

So now we've improved our matchups against Driller, Latis, Zam, and potentially Keldeo, and in exchange you've only been slightly more opened up to Reuniclus and Ferrothorn, both of which still face loads of pressure from Mamo and of course Zone for the latter.
But now we really need to ease up on the Choice spam and perhaps even replace them with more reliable sets.
Dragon Gem Calm Mind Latios seems like a good fit here, you'll take a lot of pressure off yourself to make predictions on top of the ones you're already making with the other Choicers and off Zone to clobber every Steel by itself (particularly those Zone cant check). Plus, now that we can run Recover our matchup against Rain mons like Tentacruel and Keldeo also becomes more reliable since we can stick around to absorb Scalds for the whole game in place of, well, everything else on your team.

Addressing your last two mons was a bit more of a struggle since I truly didn't want to just dump both of them and transform this into a completely different team, but we also have to acknowledge that these aren't the best options. Kyurem's strength is a bit wasted on being a Scarfer when there are better alternatives for the role (we already got surprise factor covered with Sciz) and Salamence is kind of whatever overall. Of the two I decided the Kyurem set was the weaker link since Salamence at least is a decent extra pivot to Landos, Drills, Looms, Genies going for Fighting moves, Keldeos, Volcs, etc. if you need them while Kyurem offers very little defensively outside of being statistically bulky. Scarf Moxie Mence also isn't an awful wincon in lieu of a traditional setup sweeper.
I wracked my brain for a solid last pick over Kyurem that isn't weak to stealth rocks, and improves your matchup as much as possible against the sand teams that this should be beating at team preview. If possible I also wanted it to be a third Dragon still.

As much as I wanted to recommend something like Garchomp, I eventually decided it would be best to give Sand back a bit of their own bullshit. What do I mean? Run Alakazam over Kyurem-Black as your other late game cleaner option. Sure, it does betray the idea of Dragmag a little, but trust me this pick still synergizes so well with the team and you still have two Dragons wilding out.
Zam is pretty incredible here for a number of reasons. One, as if we didn't have enough means to shut down opposing offenses with three Scarfers (I'll get to this part) and two priority users, well if they got past your Sash Zam too then something went really wrong.
Precisely because this team is already so damn fast and suppressive towards other offense Encore and Twave aren't really necessary and you can just wild out with 4 attacks. Psychic, HP Ice, and Focus Blast are all mandatory imo, leaving the fourth move up to you. I'm personally partial to Shadow Ball to not get completely memed on by random Jellicent or Cresselia, and the bit of extra juice over Signal Beam and possible SDef drops are also nice for the 1v1 w/ Reuniclus. But feel free to explore options like Grass Knot, Signal Beam, Energy Ball, or even cute shit like Taunt or Calm Mind if you're really feeling nice. Psyshock is also there I guess if you're still really scared of Matchup Moth and for a chance to OHKO Terrakion in Sand (great chance after rocks) and some Tentacruel and not waste sash on them. Feel free to play around with this fourth slot to find what you like.
Pairing Zam with both this Latios and Magnezone is also a recipe for success. You still do want to carry Focus Blast just in case, but these two essentially work to reduce if not eliminate Zam's reliance on hitting these. Gem Latios can severely weaken Tar to the point where Zam need only hit one Blast or can kill with something like Grass Knot or two Signal Beams. The reverse can also be true, Zam could weaken Tar to the point where Latios overwhelms the opponent. Meanwhile, Zone traps the Steels that give both Zam a rough time and/or demand it to hit multiple Focus Blasts. Zam is also completely immune to hazards, meaning it isnt such a big deal if Magnezone ends up letting Ferro put up multiple hazards due to rain being up or something, since one of your main sources of late game cleaning wont care about them at all. Zam just improves the rain matchup overall. Among all the options I explored for this last slot, Sash Zam was the most proactive and intuitive mechanism to avoid losing to Scarf Keldeo clicking Surf in the Rain if something were to happen to Latios. It also kind of wipes its ass with Tentacruel which often are EV'ed to outspeed Swine.

Last changes, I promise, and these are more optional, but I'd personally just stick with Scarf Magnezone over Specs. Scarf gets the same job done almost just as well and also allows Zone to be a little bit more proactive in the offense v offense game, suddenly checking non Scarf Keldeo, Tornadus, Terrakion, and opposing Mamoswine for instance. It can also revenge weakened Drills, Kyurems, and Latis that arent Scarfed. You basically just get more out of your Zone this way. Yes this does mean you're triple Scarf, which sounds pretty wild but imo the use of Choice Scarf on these particular mons doesn't impair any function of the mons in question or the team and could even trip up some opponents in and of itself.
Naive is also preferred now over Hasty Salamence to deal with priority moves better when cleaning and now that we have more solid stops and checks to the special threats Mence was a secondary check to, Hasty isn't as necessary.

Stall and fat trash could give this a bit of trouble if you're careless, but otherwise I'm content with the changes for the current meta.

TL:DR along with a Pokepaste

Scarf (Wing Attack optional) Scizor > bulky Banded
Sash Alakazam > Kyurem-Black
CM Recover Dragon Gem Latios > Specs Latios
Scarf Zone (optional) > Specs Zone
Naive > Hasty on Salamence

My version:

https://pokepast.es/a338095da2bddd5a

Hope I helped!

 

[Gamer1234556]

https://pokepast.es/a338095da2bddd5a

Here are my thoughts on this team:

1. The team still struggles to have a reliable SR user. If your main lead is Mamoswine, it wants nothing to do with Politoed or Keldeo leads. Replace it with Shuca Berry Rachi here since it is bulky enough to switch into Latios's DMs while having solid overall MUs against Sand and Rain.
2. Your team has 3 Scarfers means that Protect Spam will still be a problem. I would replace Salamence altogether with Dragonite since having it and Zam on the same team just doesn't work.
3. Speaking of Zam, Zam usually is at its best when it's in TSS teams. Seeing it in weatherless doesn't exactly feel right. Kyu-B isn't too bad of an option since the entire point of the team was Dragmag.

I will be honest and say that DragMag really isn't all that great since Smurf HO, Scarf Latios and so much naturally ruin the style, but each to their own I guess.

 

[Lord Wallace]

Here are my thoughts on this team:

1. The team still struggles to have a reliable SR user. If your main lead is Mamoswine, it wants nothing to do with Politoed or Keldeo leads. Replace it with Shuca Berry Rachi here since it is bulky enough to switch into Latios's DMs while having solid overall MUs against Sand and Rain.
2. Your team has 3 Scarfers means that Protect Spam will still be a problem. I would replace Salamence altogether with Dragonite since having it and Zam on the same team just doesn't work.
3. Speaking of Zam, Zam usually is at its best when it's in TSS teams. Seeing it in weatherless doesn't exactly feel right. Kyu-B isn't too bad of an option since the entire point of the team was Dragmag.

I will be honest and say that DragMag really isn't all that great since Smurf HO, Scarf Latios and so much naturally ruin the style, but each to their own I guess.

These are all fair, points 1 and 3 are why I seriously considered Chomp for a while instead of Zam for the extra Rocks and Dragon. In general it was a struggle to make something work here without overhauling half the team. Upon more experimentation I'm liking non Choice Magnezone quite a bit more. I'm still not that keen on having Dnite + KyuB with no hazard control.

Here's an alternate version I made with Chomp and non Choice Mag: Untitled 213 (pokepast.es)
Maybe consider Timid Zone here for random Specs Toeds

 

[Tbolt]

Thanks for all your suggestions, I'd also like to put in the team that I've been playing more recently, taking out Scizor and using a Bulky Jirachi.


Here's the team:

Jirachi @ Leftovers 

Ability: Serene Grace 

EVs: 224 HP / 200 Atk / 84 Spe 

Adamant Nature 

- Stealth Rock 

- Thunder Wave 

- U-turn 

- Healing Wish 


Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb 

Ability: Thick Fat 

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe 

Adamant Nature 

- Stealth Rock 

- Ice Shard 

- Icicle Crash 

- Earthquake 


Magnezone @ Choice Specs 

Ability: Magnet Pull 

EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Spe 

Modest Nature 

- Volt Switch 

- Thunderbolt 

- Flash Cannon 

- Hidden Power [Fire] 


Latios (M) @ Choice Specs 

Ability: Levitate 

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe 

Timid Nature 

- Dragon Pulse 

- Draco Meteor 

- Surf 

- Psyshock 


Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf 

Ability: Moxie 

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe 

Hasty Nature 

- Dragon Claw 

- Outrage 

- Earthquake 

- Fire Blast 


Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf 

Ability: Teravolt 

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe 

Jolly Nature 

- Outrage 

- Dragon Claw 

- Fusion Bolt 

- Ice Beam

The rest of the mons are unchanged from the earlier team. I found Shuca Rachi to be too passive and ineffective for my liking, so I made it more geared towards offense, with its U-Turn leaving its mark on switch-ins while still having the Defensive presence to check Latios. Body Slam vs Thunder vs Thunder Wave was a tough decision for me, and I might just go with Body Slam in the future, but Twave has served me well so far.


I prefer Jirachi on this team a lot more, what are your guys' thoughts on this team?

 

[inhalant]

It’s definitely potent and looks like a team I’d lose to. I like the concept of bludgeoning dragon checks until there are none left.

but first I personally have a lot of good experience w jirachi, out of the most common mons it’s by far the one I use mostcuz it’s so damn reliable. it definitely doesn’t need attack evs. I’d argue it need only a little speed ev, if any at all. Your only attack move is u turn, which is more about pivot than damage output, and sometimes it’s good to slower on a u turn to safely switch in one of ur choice users. I’d pour the evs in hp and spD. Movesets fine but passing a wish and staying alive might be a better plan than healing wish. Jirachi doesn’t go down easy, so I think that moveslot could be used for a mon you repeatedly find gives u trouble. It’s versatile enough to hit almost anything hard with hidden power or something in its physical movepool. ofc you could also spam ironhead hax once somethings paralyzed, always a good time.

With jirachi now being a more steady rock setter I’d look at putting superpower on the mamo instead of srock, or icicle crash. Mamos too frail to be a good srocker in my opinion, and only gets it off safely if it forces landorus to switch out. But when someone sees your lineup, they could definitely guess you want to set rocks with mamo. Plus, you’re Taxing mag a lot with the responsibility of smacking steels. Why not get the chance of surprising ferrothorn, for example, with a superpower(who definitely switches into mamo)? If you’re gonna run mamo here (which I’d think about as well. Imo it’s most valuebale tool is ice shard, but you have two choices dragons already, so it seems redundant), I’d have it help magezone out more and leave the rocks
Up to jirachi. I promise you jirachi will get em down.

i guess the last thing would deviate from ur theme a bit, but when I think about the speedtiers and who ur notcatching withKyurem-b but are tying with Salamence, I’dwonder if an all out dragon atttacker with dragon dance and roost would be better there. I always liked dd-roost-outrage-firefang/blast/substitute on him with leftovers. any dragon check relying on status and Draco losing its spa power gets punished(jirachi, heatran). Plus, you recover stealth rock damage with roost, and have a new way of taking out a dragon check