Gen 3 Humbug: CB Ho-Oh Rain Offense

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Humbug: CB Ho-Oh Rain Offense
Over the course of ADVPL, I began to grow an interest in ADV Ubers. Watching my players play the metagame was a (very stressful) blast, and I decided that I wanted to give the tier a shot. Ubers Classic just so happened to be starting up around that time, giving me an opportunity to partake in a tournament. I ended up making it to the finals of ADV Ubers Cup, much to my surprise. This team, which happens to be the very first I ever built, became one of my most reliable teams on my run.

The Teambuilding Process
My "tutelage" under Holy Ghost instilled a "Rayquaza good" mindset in me from the start. For the first 2 rounds of ADV Ubers Cup, my favorite team to use was a Rayquaza team that Exiline used in ADVPL. When Round 3 of the tournament came around, I decided that I wanted to give building a team a shot. I accidentally ended up making the exact same Exiline team, but with Latios over Latias. So, I wanted to see if I could spice it up a bit.


Obviously, with any rain team comes a Kyogre. I decided to go ahead and lead with it and not do anything too fancy. Next up comes a Latios, which is just another staple Pokemon. You need a decent special check on any team, and because of my stigma in ADV OU against Blissey, I decided to go with a Snorlax here. The team really needs a Pokemon with Pursuit to trap Deoxys-Attack, as it ravages this team otherwise, and a Normal resistance to combat Snorlax, so Metagross will fit really nicely with these 3 Pokemon. Adding in the best cleaner in the game, Deoxys-Attack, is a pretty big no-brainer. The final slot on these types of teams can be just about anything. You can go with Forretress and make this a Spikes offense team, you can put on a Rayquaza for an extra priority user and physical breaker, you can put on a Mewtwo for an additional special presence; the possibilities are vast. I was a fan of Choice Band Ho-Oh on a few other teams I had, and I hadn't ever seen a CB Ho-Oh rain team. So, I decided to experiment a bit.

The Team

Crying Lightning (Kyogre) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 96 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam​
Kyogre is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, and it's the essential piece of a rain team. Originally, the Kyogre set was Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunder, and Thunder Wave with a large amount of Defense investment. However, due to some other sets on this team, it made the matchup against sun stall a lot more difficult. So, what better way to patch up the stall matchup than with a set that destroys stall teams? Dropping Thunder on Kyogre made my Kyogre matchup much worse overall, but between Latios, Snorlax, and Thunder Deoxys-Attack, Kyogre is pretty manageable for this team. Of course, you can change this set depending on your opponent. If your opponent isn't known to use much stall, you could put a set on this Kyogre that shreds offense teams. Putting Kyogre in the lead slot makes you susceptible to opposing Lati@s leads, but on this team, getting Snorlax in early is a great way to force your opponent into some really awkward spots. 252 HP allows you to set up 101 HP Substitutes to avoid them being broken by Seismic Toss Blissey. 96 Special Attack assisted by a Modest Nature allows you to OHKO bulkless lead Mewtwo with Hydro Pump, which would otherwise be incredibly dangerous to this team. 116 Speed is arbitrary speed creep, I really just crept Tyranitar because I'm an OU main at heart. I put the remaining 44 into Defense to ease the blow from physical hits. An alternative EV spread you can do here would be this:
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 144 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature

252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 144 SpD Kyogre: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This spread maintains the Mewtwo OHKO benchmark, the max HP for 101 Substitutes, and instead invests into Sp.Def to catch unsuspecting Latios offguard by 1v1ing them with a Calm Mind Boost (most of the time, anyway). The 16 Speed on this spread is more arbitrary speed creep. A great way to abuse this spread's perks would by setting up a Substitute as a chipped Lati@s comes in on you, and setting up a Calm Mind on the following turn.

+1 96+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 212-250 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is a great way to remove a very dangerous threat in exchange for some health on your Kyogre.


My Propeller (Latios) (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh​
Latios is a fearsome special attacker and an excellent breaker. The defensive utility it provides against opposing Kyogre, especially ones in the lead slot, is invaluable. I opted for Ice Beam over Dragon Claw to help against opposing Groudon. You can potentially drop Refresh on this Latios to improve your matchup against offensive teams with moves such as Luster Purge, Hidden Power Fire, or Calm Mind, but it makes you worse against Pokemon like Thunder Wave Kyogre or Toxic Blissey, which are matchups I did not feel comfortable conceding anything in. A Timid nature is always a possibility on your Latios, if you would like to not mess around with Modest speed ties. It comes with the drawback of damage, which with Ice Beam, can be a real drag against opposing Lati@s.


Dangerous Animals (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 32 HP / 96 Atk / 136 Def / 236 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake / Shadow Ball
- Curse
- Protect​
Playing this set properly into offensive teams can create a nearly insurmountable lead from early on. When pivoting into one of the Lati twins, you will take a decent chunk of damage. That's just how they go. They are pretty threatened by you, though, so unless they know your specific game plan with this team, they will switch out more often than not. Out of Latios, they usually send in a Forretress or a Groudon. Out of Latias, you can generally expect something a bit bulkier, perhaps a Pokemon like Lugia. Against Latios, using Curse on the turn you come in can apply a massive amount of pressure to the incoming Forretress. Latios + Forretress is pretty indicative of a Spikes offense team on the other side, meaning that not many Pokemon really want to come in and deal with a boosted Snorlax. At this point, most Forretress users will opt for their spike, expecting you to either switch or hit them for very little damage. Cursing up again suddenly makes them have to deal with a much larger threat, one their team probably isn't too well equipped to deal with. Many players go for a panic Explosion here, which will blank into a Protect. If they choose to spike again, you now have to play a mindgame between Cursing up and you risking a double Protect. Should you block the Explosion with your Protect, you may have a spike on your side, but your opponent now has to answer to a +2 +2 Snorlax, which will easily rip open a few holes in your opponent's team. Vs Latias, though, your gameplan is a lot less set in stone. You should fish around for some more information before committing super hard to anything. A double switch into Kyogre from Snorlax will likely find yourself in an advantageous position. Earthquake is to help with opposing Metagross, and the 96 Attack EVs guarantee a 2HKO on 252 HP Metagross, even if it uses Protect. Shadow Ball will land onto targets like Gengar or Dusclops, and it hits the Lati twins a little bit harder. 8 Speed investment allows you to outspeed other Snorlax, and it becomes especially helpful in a Curse war.


Pretty Visitors (Deoxys-Attack) @ Spell Tag
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower
- Thunder​
Spell Tag Deoxys-Attack is a very difficult Pokemon to check defensively, and it proves to be an excellent late game cleaner. You can run a number of moves in the last slot, but I often opt for Thunder on Rain teams. It slams Metagross and Skarmory, and if you have used your Ho-Oh or Snorlax to chip down Metagross a bit, you can likely find yourself a KO. Pressuring Kyogre a little bit more without having to drop your attack from Superpower is also really nice, as is hitting Lugia without attacking into Reflect. You choose to use an EV Spread of: EVs: 252 Atk / 144 SpA / 112 Spe with a Hasty nature if you're really paranoid of Deoxys-Attack speed ties. This also gives your Thunder a bigger punch at the cost of a bit of physical power. You can add a bit more speed to that for Pokemon with a Salac Berry, up to you.


Cornerstone (Metagross) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 140 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Pursuit​
A key defensive and offensive piece to the team. Pursuit trapping Deoxys-Attack is massive for any team. Metagross's Steel typing is also a massive boon, as it eases up the team's otherwise massive weakness to Rock moves. Sp. Def investment on Metagross is insanely helpful for combating Lati@s in a pinch, exploding on Kyogre, eating a Deoxys-Attack Thunder or Sun boosted Fire Punch, and a multitude of other things. 100 Attack investment accompanied by an Adamant nature gives you overwhelmingly favorable odds to 2HKO max HP Latias. 16 Speed investment is arbitrary speed creep, although it happens to outspeed Shedinja lacking a +Speed nature, and with 8 more EVs, it can outspeed +Speed Wobbuffet.


Fire and the Thud (Ho-Oh) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Fire
- Toxic​
The "centerpiece" of this team. Using Ho-Oh over another offensive flying type gives you a better matchup against Sun teams, and the ability to be a panic check to Lati@s. Being immune to burn means you can pretty freely switch into a Dusclops or a Ho-Oh clicking Sacred Fire. The fourth move slot can be just about anything. I happened to choose Toxic on this specific team for a better matchup against stall teams. A few moves you could run over Toxic are: Whirlwind, Double-Edge, Ancientpower, and Earthquake. The speed investment is, once again, arbitrary creep, although this time I chose to creep max Speed Umbreon.

Importable

Here are all of the times I used this team in ADV Ubers Cup:
ADV Ubers Cup Round 3 vs Royal1604, Game 1
ADV Ubers Cup Round 3 vs Royal1604, Game 2
ADV Ubers Cup Quarterfinals vs Heysup, Game 2
ADV Ubers Cup Semifinals vs Alpha Rabbit, Game 2
ADV Ubers Cup Finals vs 64 Squares, Game 2

Threatlist

If your opponent has Skarmory as their Steel type instead of Forretress or Metagross, the gameplan with Snorlax will fail entirely. Teams with Skarmory aren't inherently advantaged otherwise, and you should still be in a favorable matchup vs Skarmory offenses. You will have to make use of your other tools to get the ball rolling instead of Snorlax. If it is a Skarmory sun team, Ho-Oh usually breaks pretty well.


If Wobbuffet ever gets to remove Snorlax, your options against special offense are severely limited. It's not an unwinnable matchup by any means, but it's one that you need to approach with caution. It will likely come down to your Deoxys-Attack cleaning up.


Teams with both Latios and Latias can aim to overwhelm your Snorlax, and this leaves your team with very few options against those Pokemon. Those teams can be broken pretty easily by Deoxys-Attack, though, so using Snorlax early to find chip onto a Pokemon like Metagross is very helpful in that matchup.

Sun stall as a whole can be tough for this team. The biggest thing that would help with this matchup would be removing Ho-Oh's Choice Band, as Ho-Oh is easily one of your best breakers in that matchup. Toxicing Lugia with Ho-Oh goes a really long way, and spreading burn onto targets such as Groudon is massive.

This team's hardest matchup is easily rain stall. Against sun stall, you can simply brute force your way past the Kyogre answers eventually, or break them with Deoxys-Attack. However, opposing Kyogre completely ruins your best way of abusing those structures.
A tech to help with both the sun and rain stall matchups would be Rest instead of Protect on Snorlax. This gives your Snorlax much more longevity and allows it to be a real threat in the end game.

Closing Thoughts
I was glad to get this experience! Being thrown into a brand new tier and having to fight some fierce competition was a ton of fun, and I look forward to playing this tier even more in the future. As is tradition in all of these posts, I have some special shoutouts I'd like to give.

Holy Ghost Exiline Inspirited Heysup You were all instrumental in my journey of learning this metagame, and I can't thank you guys enough.
Holy Ghost, for giving me a bunch of teams, a ton of advice, and most importantly, being a great friend.
Exiline, for yelling at me to use sun stall every week and being an incredibly difficult opponent in practice games. #FreeExiline
Inspirited, for showing me some of the ropes and being super friendly. Oh, and I totally stole that Protect Snorlax set off of you.
Heysup, for playing me in WAY too many test games. You're one of the best teammates I've ever had the pleasure of being around.

Staxi Perry Thank you so much for taking a chance on me in UPL, I will try my best to make it worth your while!
Looking forward to the remaining weeks of the season with my team! You guys have been awesome so far, especially MMII

The entirety of the ADV Ubers playerbase deserves a shoutout for keeping this great tier alive, even if they won't let us have it best of 3 in UPL.

Shoutout to everybody in the Agensea, you guys keep me going every day :blobnom:
 

Crying Lightning (Kyogre) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 96 SpA / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam​
Kyogre is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, and it's the essential piece of a rain team. Originally, the Kyogre set was Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunder, and Thunder Wave with a large amount of Defense investment. However, due to some other sets on this team, it made the matchup against sun stall a lot more difficult. So, what better way to patch up the stall matchup than with a set that destroys stall teams? Dropping Thunder on Kyogre made my Kyogre matchup much worse overall, but between Latios, Snorlax, and Thunder Deoxys-Attack, Kyogre is pretty manageable for this team. Of course, you can change this set depending on your opponent. If your opponent isn't known to use much stall, you could put a set on this Kyogre that shreds offense teams. Putting Kyogre in the lead slot makes you susceptible to opposing Lati@s leads, but on this team, getting Snorlax in early is a great way to force your opponent into some really awkward spots. 252 HP allows you to set up 101 HP Substitutes to avoid them being broken by Seismic Toss Blissey. 96 Special Attack assisted by a Modest Nature allows you to OHKO bulkless lead Mewtwo with Hydro Pump, which would otherwise be incredibly dangerous to this team. 116 Speed is arbitrary speed creep, I really just crept Tyranitar because I'm an OU main at heart. I put the remaining 44 into Defense to ease the blow from physical hits. An alternative EV spread you can do here would be this:
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 144 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
Very cool Kyogre, I think it's original set of Thunder and Thunder wave are way better, I watched some of your battles and you look like to use this thunder wave a lot.


Dangerous Animals (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 32 HP / 96 Atk / 136 Def / 236 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake / Shadow Ball
- Curse
- Protect​
Playing this set properly into offensive teams can create a nearly insurmountable lead from early on. When pivoting into one of the Lati twins, you will take a decent chunk of damage. That's just how they go. They are pretty threatened by you, though, so unless they know your specific game plan with this team, they will switch out more often than not. Out of Latios, they usually send in a Forretress or a Groudon. Out of Latias, you can generally expect something a bit bulkier, perhaps a Pokemon like Lugia. Against Latios, using Curse on the turn you come in can apply a massive amount of pressure to the incoming Forretress. Latios + Forretress is pretty indicative of a Spikes offense team on the other side, meaning that not many Pokemon really want to come in and deal with a boosted Snorlax. At this point, most Forretress users will opt for their spike, expecting you to either switch or hit them for very little damage. Cursing up again suddenly makes them have to deal with a much larger threat, one their team probably isn't too well equipped to deal with. Many players go for a panic Explosion here, which will blank into a Protect. If they choose to spike again, you now have to play a mindgame between Cursing up and you risking a double Protect. Should you block the Explosion with your Protect, you may have a spike on your side, but your opponent now has to answer to a +2 +2 Snorlax, which will easily rip open a few holes in your opponent's team. Vs Latias, though, your gameplan is a lot less set in stone. You should fish around for some more information before committing super hard to anything. A double switch into Kyogre from Snorlax will likely find yourself in an advantageous position. Earthquake is to help with opposing Metagross, and the 96 Attack EVs guarantee a 2HKO on 252 HP Metagross, even if it uses Protect. Shadow Ball will land onto targets like Gengar or Dusclops, and it hits the Lati twins a little bit harder. 8 Speed investment allows you to outspeed other Snorlax, and it becomes especially helpful in a Curse war.
I like your Snorlax protect a lot and the way you predict some explosions, I think curse is a awesome move to Snorlax and it can be also explored with Rest or Explosion when you are in low healthy. And I think Shadow Ball should be better then Earthquack to lead with Gengars.

My Propeller (Latios) (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh​
Latios is a fearsome special attacker and an excellent breaker. The defensive utility it provides against opposing Kyogre, especially ones in the lead slot, is invaluable. I opted for Ice Beam over Dragon Claw to help against opposing Groudon. You can potentially drop Refresh on this Latios to improve your matchup against offensive teams with moves such as Luster Purge, Hidden Power Fire, or Calm Mind, but it makes you worse against Pokemon like Thunder Wave Kyogre or Toxic Blissey, which are matchups I did not feel comfortable conceding anything in. A Timid nature is always a possibility on your Latios, if you would like to not mess around with Modest speed ties. It comes with the drawback of damage, which with Ice Beam, can be a real drag against opposing Lati@s.

Pretty Visitors (Deoxys-Attack) @ Spell Tag
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Extreme Speed
- Superpower
- Thunder​
Spell Tag Deoxys-Attack is a very difficult Pokemon to check defensively, and it proves to be an excellent late game cleaner. You can run a number of moves in the last slot, but I often opt for Thunder on Rain teams. It slams Metagross and Skarmory, and if you have used your Ho-Oh or Snorlax to chip down Metagross a bit, you can likely find yourself a KO. Pressuring Kyogre a little bit more without having to drop your attack from Superpower is also really nice, as is hitting Lugia without attacking into Reflect. You choose to use an EV Spread of: EVs: 252 Atk / 144 SpA / 112 Spe with a Hasty nature if you're really paranoid of Deoxys-Attack speed ties. This also gives your Thunder a bigger punch at the cost of a bit of physical power. You can add a bit more speed to that for Pokemon with a Salac Berry, up to you.
I like how your pokémon have Thunder to work better in the rain condition, I think this kind of sinergy is the best.
 

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