Quality Control Hydreigon (1/2)

[OVERVIEW]

Hydreigon is a great special attacker, hitting harder than the new hotness Dragapult, and packing a wide array of coverage moves. With one of the highest base Sp Atk stats in the game, and a decent base Speed, his stats make him a good choice to close out matches. As a Dmax target, both of it's STAB Max moves (Wyrmwind & Darkness) are excellent; Wyrmwind hits incredibly hard and helps control physically offensive mons, while Darkness can lower Sp Def, making them easier to clean up. Hydreigon's weaknesses do include some of the most common types in the meta (Fairy & Dragon), and can easily be OHKO if deployed into an unfavorable matchup.

[SET]
Name: All-Out Offense
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Dark Pulse
move 3: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 4: Protect
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
========

Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse are the primary STAB moves, both hitting very hard both as base moves and as Max moves. Fire Blast is great coverage against popular Steel types, as well as mons with 4x Fire weaknesses like Ferrothorn and Durant. It also provides a stronger Max Flare than Flamethrower, though if you're worried about accuracy or plan on leading with other mons, you can easily use Flamethrower instead. While it is more accurate, Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO against bulkier mons like Excadrill and Vanilluxe while Flamethrower is less so (93.8% against Excadrill, 56.3% against Vanilluxe). Lastly, Protect is always a safe bet on attackers, especially when facing down against Fairy types.

In regards to EVs, we use the standard special sweeper spread, maximizing offensive power and speed. The remaining 4 EVs in HP provide a nice little bump to our overall health, which can come in handy with our item. With 125 base Sp Atk, Hydreigon doesn't need help in the offense department. Timid provides a much needed speed boost to help it strike first in more matchups. In regards to items, Life Orb is a solid choice if you're using Hydreigon to clean up after your lead mons, and easily can pack enough power to KO almost anything it has an advantage move for.

Usage Tips
========

Hydreigon can serve as a very nice DMax choice depending on the matchup, with some excellent Max Moves at its disposal. Max Wyrmwind hits for a ton of damage, while also lowering the Atk of the opponent's field, increasing your survivability. Max Darkness lowers Sp Def, which is a good choice as your last Max move, making whatever is left on the field easier to knock out with your non-max attacks. This is also helpfully against mons that love to use Max Quake to raise their Sp Def or with high Sp Def in general (Mudsdale, Snorlax). Max Flare provides some incidental weather control, along with the general benefits of sun. Additionally, don't be afraid to use Max Guard. While Hydreigon wants to be attacking almost every turn, if you're facing a Max mon who could potentially KO even through a standard Protect (ex Weakness Policy Togekiss/Conkeldurr, Fairy-types in general), Max Guard will save you while your partner can either neutralize the threat, or stall out any unfavorable conditions (Trick Room, Tailwind, opponent DMax).

Team Options
========

Hydreigon wants to be with teams that have strong speed control & support. He's a huge attacker, but needs to be attacking first to score KO's before an opponent can knock him out or set-up their plan. TW setters that can ensure Hydreigon has the speed needed to attack first (Whimsicott, Braviary, Corviknight). Whimsicott in particular is a very solid partner, as Prankster allows it to get TW off almost all the time, allowing Hydreigon to hit first in practically any matchup. Taunt can also be used in mitigating an opponent's TW or Trick Room plan, both of which are bad news. Other Prankster mons also work very well with Hydreigon, offering support and protection. T-Wave & Fake Out on Grimmsnarl can break Sashes on targets and cripple potential Hydreigon counters. It can also set up screens to shield Hydreigon from damage, saving it from certain OHKO moves. For example, a proc'd WP Conkeldurr with Guts & a burn using Drain Punch on a Dmax Hydreigon deals at least 144% damage. After Reflect and a Max Wyrmwind, that drops to at most 85.7% damage, making it a guaranteed 2HKO. Similarly, a proc'd WP Modest Togekiss with 252 Sp Atk EVs using Dazzling Gleam on Dmax Hydreigon deals 136-161% damage. Light Screen drops that to 91.3-108% damage, which is a 50% guaranteed OHKO.

Hydreigon also works well with Follow Me users who draw lethal attacks. Togekiss in particular is an excellent choice, as it's got great bulk and it's Fairy typing allows it to tank attacks from almost every one of Hydreigon's weaknesses. To break it down, Togekiss is immune to Dragons, 1/4 resistant to Bug & Fighting type, and neutral to Fairy. Keep in mind that Dazzling Gleam hits both sides of the field, so you can't use Follow Me to take that hit.

Lastly, teams that run heavy physical cores and need a special sweeper to break through walls would enjoy Hydreigon as a wall-breaker. Sand teams in particular could be a very good choice, as the main offensive core is entirely physical based.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hydreigon can learn Taunt, which can be useful against TR and other set-up teams if you get Speed Control to act before your opponent (TW from your Whimsicott into Hydreigon Taunt). Hydreigon also learns Nasty Plot this gen, letting it get +2 to it's already huge Sp Atk. If you can set up for a turn to get it off and protect it(Follow Me to draw attacks), Hydreigon can swing for massive damage, essentially letting you fire a Draco Meteor with no drop in your following attacks. If you have solid Fire-type coverage on your team already, Hydreigon can learn a variety of other special moves, including Surf/Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, and Flash Cannon depending on what you need.

If you're concerned about overall speed, Choice Scarf can make Hydreigon a very fast threat. Replace Protect with U-Turn, and change the 4 HP EVs to either defense stat, and Hydreigon becomes a powerful and speedy threat/lead. This lets you outspeed a un-scarfed Dragapult with a +Spe nature. Just keep in mind that if you Dynamax, you only have the Speed boost on your first Max Turn, and won't have it on the other two.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fairy types**: Whimsicott, Togekiss, Mimikyu, Sylveon. All of these mons can OHKO non-Dmax Hydreigon with any Fairy attack. Whimsicott and Togekiss in particular are rough counters; Whimsicott can set the TW to either KO you on it's next turn, or have its partner do it before you can act, while Togekiss can either redirect all your attacks to it, letting it's bulk absorb the damage while its partner knocks you out, or just tank whatever you throw at it and KO you itself.

**Dragapult**: it's faster than Hydreigon unless you're scarfed, and if it's running a physical set, it hits just as hard as you can. However, Hydreigon does have 2 STAB coverage moves against it, so if you can gain speed advantage or can Dmax while at full, you can survive and KO it before it can be an issue.

**Residual Damage**: sand, burns, & leech seed will chip away at your health, and paired with the damage from Life Orb, means you're taking a lot of extra damage every turn. This is why Hydreigon is a better closer, as it can wait out weather until it's needed.

**Opposing Speed Control**: if your opponent gets to set TW or TR, Hydreigon will probably not survive for long. Most of these teams run Fairy types, with both having access to some Fighting-type coverage as well. Whimsicott as mentioned can get TW off before anything save Fake Out or a Prankster T-Wave, also Corviknight eat multiple Fire Blasts while healing itself. It may also be running the Bulk-Up/Body Press build, which is a problem. Common Trick Room setters include Mimikyu, Dusclops, and Hatterene, and these teams also tend to run Fairies. Lastly, status effects from mons like Raichu, Chlorophyll Vileplume, or Butterfree can cripple Hydreigon and make it an easy target.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[asdfjkl, 156154]]
- Quality checked by: [[MajorBowman, 188164]]
 
Last edited:

MajorBowman

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Doubles Colonel
[OVERVIEW]
  • I'm not sure I'd classify Hydreigon as a revenge killer, its speed is now pretty high because a lot of the faster mons didn't make the cut but that doesn't necessarily make it a revenge killer per se
  • When you're mentioning Hydreigon's max moves, Max Wyrmwind is way better than Max Darkness. Still fine to mention Darkness if you want, but Wyrmwind is overall a better max move, not to mention its higher power in this case
  • The third bullet seems a bit too general and not really specific to Hydreigon, you could say that about any generic fast attacker
[SET]
  • "Sweeper" isn't really a role in doubles unless the pokemon is using setup moves, I'd probably just name it something like "All-out Attacker"
  • For the moves, I'd suggest slashing Flash Cannon in the 3rd slot and just making the fourth slot Protect. U-turn isn't great on non-choiced Hydreigon and you really want Protect on a pokemon like this
  • Honestly not sure Flash Cannon needs to be mentioned at all since it's so weak, maybe move this to Other Options (more on this later)
  • As far as Fire Blast vs Flamethrower I'm fine with both being slashed, but I'd recommend looking at some damage calcs and mentioning when Fire Blast can score some KOs that Flamethrower misses or when they both do the same job
    • For example, Fire Blast will always OHKO Excadrill but Flamethrower has a very small chance to not OHKO. Try to find some other examples like this
[Usage Tips]
  • Your first bullet point seems like it belongs in Team Options, try not to be repetitive if possible
    • Could be rephrased to say something along the lines of "try to be attacking first with Hydreigon when possible in order to prevent Hydreigon from being attacked itself," the point there being the best defense is a good offense in Hydreigon's case
  • You don't need to overemphasize the Life Orb chip damage, that's a common theme among all Life Orb users. One quick mention of it like "keep in mind every time you attack you lose a bit of health" is fine, but that's not really a reason to not attack with Hydreigon when you get the chance
  • Specify that Max Darkness lowers Special Defense and don't forget about Wyrmwind
  • The Prankster immunity is a bit overstated here, especially considering that both relevant Prankster users (Whimsicott, Grimmsnarl) are part Fairy type, and Whimsicott can outspeed and easily OHKO
  • The Levitate point is something else that belongs more in Team Options, usage tips is meant to emphasize how to use Hydreigon and not its partners
[Team Options]
  • Generally good stuff here, can't think of anything else that desperately needs to be added but I'll get back to you if I do
You're missing a [STRATEGY COMMENTS] header and Other Options section. These are both important parts of the analysis both for the content and the formatting, please make sure you're following the format from this guide exactly!

[Other Options]
  • This is where you'd put options that might not be as strong or as applicable to the original set
  • Possible other options:
    • Taunt
    • Nasty Plot
    • Choice Scarf set (Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Fire move, U-turn)
[Checks and Counters]
  • Again, make sure you follow the format of the guide I linked above exactly
  • Don't say "kill," "knock out" is a good substitute
  • Mention some Fairy types by name, Whimsicott and Togekiss are good examples of Fairy types that can either threaten an immediate knockout or largely ignore Hydreigon, respectively
  • Trick Room is generally a good check to Hydreigon but not because most TR closers use Fighting moves
  • Wrap the Trick Room point into a larger point about opposing Speed Control; you correctly identified while writing the first sections of the analysis that Hydreigon really wants to be attacking first, so opposing speed control (Trick Room, Tailwind, Thunder Wave, etc) all hinder that
    • Mention some common users of each method of speed control as examples
  • GMax Snorlax isn't specifically a Hydreigon check and very rarely if ever runs Max Knuckle
  • Burns and Leech Seed could be wrapped into "Residual Damage" which would also include sand, this is where you could emphasize that Hydreigon is susceptible to passive damage from Life Orb + these other sources (as you already have), so you don't need to hound on it in the rest of the analysis
[Credits]

Make sure you follow that format in the guide, including all of the punctuation marks. Also don't forget to include your ID after your username, that's very important! If you don't know how to find your ID, it's the numbers after your name in the URL when you click on your profile. For example, mine is 188164, yours is 156154.


Implement these changes and I'll give it another look!
 
Thanks for the feedback! I've updated the post based on what you said and tried to include some more details, and also fixed up the formatting to be more in line with the guide you posted, lemme know what you think!
 

MajorBowman

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is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Doubles Colonel
Looks great, good work. Last comment would be to just make sure you follow that formatting exactly when you write it up because the analyses all have to be in that very specific format in order for the Dex to recognize the different sections. Examples would be including the brackets around the credits
  • - Written by: [[askfjkl, 156154]]
and using the double asterisks (representing bold face text) around the different Checks and Counters
  • **Fairy-types**: Whimsicott, Togekiss, etc
Other than that, first QC check approved! Go ahead and start writing this up.

1/2
QC stamp.gif
 

MajorBowman

take a sip babes
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Doubles Colonel
Oh sorry one more thing I just thought of, you don't need to explain basic mechanics in your analysis. One example I noticed is this line under Usage Tips: "If your opponent Max attacks you with Max Guard, they don't get the stat changes either." That bit is unnecessary since that's a fundamental mechanic of Max Guard and not something unique to Hydreigon or any of its moves. Little things like that are extraneous and can be removed!
 
Oh sorry one more thing I just thought of, you don't need to explain basic mechanics in your analysis. One example I noticed is this line under Usage Tips: "If your opponent Max attacks you with Max Guard, they don't get the stat changes either." That bit is unnecessary since that's a fundamental mechanic of Max Guard and not something unique to Hydreigon or any of its moves. Little things like that are extraneous and can be removed!
Made the formatting changes and did some proofreading/polishing, removed some extraneous wording throughout. I also added some more calculations under the Team Options section around how much damage Grimmsnarl can reduce via screens under some worst case scenarios. Let me know how it looks and where to go from there!
 

MajorBowman

take a sip babes
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Doubles Colonel
Nope, you just write the full analysis in this thread instead of putting everything in bullet points. The basic flow is outline with bullet points -> first QC check -> write full analysis -> 2nd QC check -> 2 GP checks -> finished. Basically just take what you have and turn the bullets into paragraphs (still in the OP).
 
Nope, you just write the full analysis in this thread instead of putting everything in bullet points. The basic flow is outline with bullet points -> first QC check -> write full analysis -> 2nd QC check -> 2 GP checks -> finished. Basically just take what you have and turn the bullets into paragraphs (still in the OP).
Oh ok, gotcha. I just finished the initial write up, let me know how it looks/reads
 

MajorBowman

take a sip babes
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Doubles Colonel
Since I already checked the original, someone else will be responsible for the 2nd QC check. Stay tuned!
 

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