Hydreigon (BW OU) (QC 0/2)

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[OVERVIEW]

Hydreigon is a very strong special attacker that can deal massive damage to many common Pokemon in the tier with the help of Life Orb or Choice Specs, and its offensive typing is also very good, being only resisted by Steel types, and it can learn moves such as Fire Blast to deal with them. This leads to it being very hard to wall, because it can carry coverage for many different Pokemon. Thanks to Levitate, it is also immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as well as Ground type moves, giving it a few more switch-in opportunities then it would normally have. However, Hydreigon is extremely hindered by its base Speed stat of 98, which causes it to be just barely outran by common Pokemon such as Salamence and Garchomp, which can easily KO it with their Dragon type attacks. Unfortunately, Hydreigon cannot always run all the coverage that it needs to because of four move slot syndrome, so it will be walled by different threats depending on what options it forgoes. Its Dark typing is also somewhat of a hinderance, due to the weakness to Fighting it brings, a fairly common attacking type in the metagame, and it is also weak to priority moves in Mach Punch and Ice Shard.

[SET 1]
name: Substitute
move 1: Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse
move 2: Focus Blast / Fire Blast
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest
evs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves

Substitute allows Hydreigon to take advantage of Pokemon that it can force switches against, and lets it attack safely without being vulnerable to priority moves like Mach Punch. Dragon Pulse deals less damage than Draco Meteor, but it is preferred due to Hydreigon not needing to switch out after using it, since it will be under a Subsitute. Dark Pulse hits many Psychic types in the tier super effectively and also carries a flinch chance, which can occasionally let Hydreigon break through a check. Fire Blast deals with many Steel types like Skarmory, Excadrill, Ferrothorn and Forretress and provides near unresisted coverage along with Dragon Pulse. Focus Blast hits many Steel types super-effectively as well, but it should only be used if Dark Pulse is used in the first slot. Roost heals off Substitute damage and Life Orb recoil and maintains longevity throughout the match.
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Set Details

A Modest nature combined with Life Orb maximize firepower to deal as much damage as possible under a Substitute.
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Usage Tips

This set should aim to switch in on Pokemon that Hydreigon can force to switch out, or passive, slower Pokemon that cannot deal much damage to it so that Hydreigon can safely use Substitute while the Pokemon switches out. It is then best to simply start attacking what is in front of Hydreigon, as most Pokemon cannot pose an immediate threat to it other than Pokemon with multi-hit moves, and Steel type switch-ins will usually be hit by Fire Blast before they can break Hydreigon's substitute and attempt to attack it. Roost can also be used if whatever is in front of Hydreigon cannot break its Substitute in one turn, as you will almost always have to use Substitute again if it has to face a priority user. Roost should also be used whenever Substitute could be used but you do not have enough HP to make one or when a switch is forced while behind a Substitute.
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Team Options

Entry hazard support to whittle down bulkier foes that Dragon Pulse cannot easily take down is very useful for Hydreigon, which Pokemon like Excadrill and Landorus-T can provide very well. Landorus-T can also use Intimidate to weaken a physical attacker, usually forcing it to switch out for Hydreigon to freely use Substitute. Magnezone can also trap and remove problematic Steel types like Forretress, Ferrothorn and Excadrill.
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[SET 2]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Fire Blast / Focus Blast
move 4: Earth Power
item: Choice Specs
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD

Moves

Dark Pulse boosted by Choice Specs deals good damage to Pokemon that don't resist it. Draco Meteor also deals massive damage to most Pokemon and has the best neutral coverage, but the Special Attack drop means Hydreigon can easily be taken advantage of after using it, and it is a dangerous move to get Choice locked into. Fire Blast hits Pokemon that resist both Dark Pulse and Draco Meteor. Focus Blast hits Tyranitar as well as Blissey, but Fire Blast is generally the more useful move due to its better accuracy and ability to hit more things super effectively then Focus Blast. Earth Power is used to hit Heatran as well as being a more reliable option against Magnezone once its Air Balloon has been popped.
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Set Details

Choice Specs greatly boosts the power of Hydreigon's moves, and a Timid nature is used as Choice Specs makes up for the power drop from a Modest nature.
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Usage Tips

This set is very easy to take advantage of if the wrong move is used, so it is often better to use whatever move will hit most Pokemon on the opposing team neutrally or super effectively, rather then trying to recklessly attack whatever is in front of Hydreigon as its low Speed means many of its switch-ins are faster and can deal heavy damage or OHKO Hydreigon depending on the move before it has a chance to attack. Draco Meteor should only be used once Pokemon that can take advantage of Hydreigon after its use are eliminated or have been weakened enough to be taken out by it, due to its Special Attack drop and the fact that you will be Choice locked into it, but once any Pokemon that resist it are eliminated, it should be used more often to heavily damage the opposing team so that they can be cleaned up by Hydreigon's teammates or by Hydreigon itself when it switches back in later. If a Pokemon is heavily weakened, it usually can also be taken out by Draco Meteor or another super effective move that Hydreigon has even after the Special Attack drop, but there are very few situations in which Hydreigon should not switch out after using Draco Meteor. This set should mainly be used in the mid to late game, as mispredictions with this set can be taken advantage of very easily and will often lead to Hydreigon being KO'd very early on, and this set also relies on Pokemon that resist its moves to be taken out first before it attempts to sweep as it cannot use multiple moves against them.
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Team Options

This set especially appreciates Magnezone's ability to remove Steel types, as it cannot use its coverage moves against them if locked into the wrong move, as Hydreigon will often be KO'd if it attempts to use weaker moves on Pokemon it could otherwise hit super effectively to ensure that Steel types can be dealt with. Psychic types such as Latias, Latios and Alakazam also remove any Fighting types that carry Mach Punch, as they will often halt Hydreigon's sweeps and limit it to only KO'ing one Pokemon.
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[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options

A Choice Scarf with a Timid nature can also be used to act as a revenge killer, outspeeding Choice Scarf Salamence and Garchomp if they do not run a Speed increasing nature themselves. However, the power drop from a lack of Choice Specs or Life Orb is very noticeable, mainly on its non-STAB moves. Garchomp can also outclass Hydreigon as a Choice Scarf user, as its typing is only vulnerable to Ice Shard, which is much less common then Mach Punch. However, Garchomp's Outrage is far less spammable than Hydreigon's Dark Pulse or Draco Meteor due to the fact that it is turned into set up fodder for bulky Steel types such as Ferrothorn after using it.
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Checks and Counters
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**Fighting types**: Fighting types that are faster then Hydreigon, such as Keldeo or Terrakion, can easily OHKO it with Secret Sword or Close Combat, and slower ones also have a good chance to OHKO it after prior damage with Mach Punch, and Technician Breloom has a chance to OHKO it with no prior damage.

**Faster Dragon types**: Salamence, Garchomp, Latios and Latias are all faster then Hydreigon and can all deal massive damage or OHKO it with their Dragon type STAB attacks. However, if Hydreigon has a Choice Scarf with a Timid nature, they cannot outspeed it without using a Speed increasing nature and a Choice Scarf themselves, but Salamence and Garchomp do commonly run Choice Scarf.

**Paralysis**: Paralyzing Hydregion greatly reduces its already mediocre Speed, allowing Pokemon that would normally be outran by it to use their stronger moves such as Close Combat to OHKO it. It can also miss out on opportunities to use Roost.

**Special Walls**: Sandstream Tyranitar, and Blissey can wall Hydreigon and shrug off their attacks to either fire back with a super effective move or stall it out with Toxic, but they cannot be walled if Hydreigon carries Focus Blast.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[FilledPizza]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
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I am not the most seasoned Hydreigon user, but Life Orb is rarely if ever used since it is one of Hydreigon's worse sets. I would probably say that the best sets for Hydreigon are Substitute > Leftovers 3 Attacks > Choice Specs.

**Fighting types**: Many Fighting types such as Conkeldurr, Infernape and Breloom can switch into Dark Pulse from Hydreigon with relative ease, and can easily KO it with Mach Punch after some prior damage, with Breloom even having a chance to OHKO it due to Technician. Other Fighting types that are faster then Hydreigon, such as Keldeo or Terrakion, can also OHKO it with Secret Sword or Close Combat. However, all of the above threats must be wary of switching into Draco Meteor.
I also don't think that Infernape and Conkeldurr should be listed as counters since they are almost never seen in serious BW OU Matchups.

**Garchomp and Salamence**: Both of these Pokemon can outspeed Hydreigon and easily OHKO it. While Timid Choice Scarf Hydreigon can outspeed them even if they also have a Choice Scarf but do not have a Speed increasing nature themselves, it is very uncommon that they will not use one if they carry a Choice Scarf.
I think this section should be renamed to Dragons and list how every Dragon can technically check Hydreigon due to its low speed and average bulk.

**Special Walls**: Special walls such as Blissey and Milotic can easily tank most of Hydreigon's attacks, and can easily stall it out with Toxic or use super effective moves on it to wear it down while Hydreigon cannot do much about them. While Hydreigon can occasionally break through them if it gets lucky with Dark Pulse flinches due to their low Speed, this is nowhere near consistent enough or reliable for them to not be a threat.
The two you listed are very niche and not that common. I guess you can add Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and Specially Defensive Skarmory as potential special walls. The problem is that Hydreigon's coverage is so good that it is literally impossible to wall.

Also, did you join the C&C Discord Server? I think it would be a good idea to join it and discuss what the most common sets used in Hydreigon are.
 
I am not the most seasoned Hydreigon user, but Life Orb is rarely if ever used since it is one of Hydreigon's worse sets. I would probably say that the best sets for Hydreigon are Substitute > Leftovers 3 Attacks > Choice Specs.



I also don't think that Infernape and Conkeldurr should be listed as counters since they are almost never seen in serious BW OU Matchups.



I think this section should be renamed to Dragons and list how every Dragon can technically check Hydreigon due to its low speed and average bulk.



The two you listed are very niche and not that common. I guess you can add Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and Specially Defensive Skarmory as potential special walls. The problem is that Hydreigon's coverage is so good that it is literally impossible to wall.

Also, did you join the C&C Discord Server? I think it would be a good idea to join it and discuss what the most common sets used in Hydreigon are.

I mainly used a Life Orb, Choice Specs and Choice Scarf Hydreigon while testing out different sets, since I was under the assumption that Hydreigon's low speed would cause it to usually take damage before it can Substitute and cause it to only be able to use Substitute once or twice before having to Roost, and that Mach Punch always deals enough damage to it for it to not be able to make a Substitute, or to be left with very little HP after making one.

I tried to list specific Fighting types in the counter because some Fighting types like Lucario are weak to Fire Blast/Earth Power as well as being slower then Hydreigon or not learning Mach Punch, like Toxicroak.

It is also the same for the Dragon type section, since Hydreigon can outspeed Kyurem-B, Haxorus and Dragonite before a Dragon Dance, so I mainly listed the two that are faster than it and that also usually use Choice Scarf, but I will consider changing it to be more generalized as Latios and Latias can also outspeed it and OHKO it with Draco Meteor.

For walls, all 3 of those Pokemon are weak to a coverage move that Hydreigon can carry, with Tyranitar being weak to Earth Power and Ferrothorn and Skarmory being weak to Fire Blast. Skarmory also has poor special bulk even when invested fully, even Timid Scarf Hydreigon can 2HKO it with Fire Blast. I should probably add that it is very difficult to wall because of the coverage options it has in the overview, but the main reason I chose those two were because they are not weak to any of the coverage moves it usually runs.
 
I mainly used a Life Orb, Choice Specs and Choice Scarf Hydreigon while testing out different sets, since I was under the assumption that Hydreigon's low speed would cause it to usually take damage before it can Substitute and cause it to only be able to use Substitute once or twice before having to Roost, and that Mach Punch always deals enough damage to it for it to not be able to make a Substitute or to be left with very little HP after making one.
Since Hydreigon forces out a lot of mons when it switches it, it could use that as an opportunity to get a Substitute. The main Mach Punch user Breloom struggles to revenge kill it when it is behind a Substitute. Life Orb in contrast gets Hydreigon worn down much faster and easier for mons to pick it off.

I tried to list specific Fighting types in the counter because some Fighting types like Lucario are weak to Fire Blast/Earth Power as well as being slower then Hydreigon or not learning Mach Punch, like Toxicroak.
You shouldn't list/exclude counters just because they are weak to Hydreigon's coverage. Moreover, it's important to note that the counters you are listing should be ones that are used in serious matchups. Like, Terrakion is weak to Earth Power/Focus Blast but is fast enough and even gets Special Defense boosts to survive them. Lucario isn't even really used that much in serious games, much less as a counter to Hydreigon. Toxicroak's purpose isn't to check Toxicroak, but to counter Rain.

It is also the same for the Dragon type section, since Hydreigon can outspeed Kyurem-B, Haxorus and Dragonite before a Dragon Dance, so I mainly listed the two that are faster than it and that also usually use Choice Scarf, but I will consider changing it to be more generalized as Latios and Latias can also outspeed it and OHKO it with Draco Meteor.
Ok, I will be concede and say that faster Dragons can counter Hydreigon.

For walls, all 3 of those Pokemon are weak to a coverage move that Hydreigon can carry, with Tyranitar being weak to Earth Power and Ferrothorn and Skarmory being weak to Fire Blast. Skarmory also has poor special bulk even when invested fully, even Timid Scarf Hydreigon can 2HKO it with Fire Blast. I should probably add that it is very difficult to wall because of the coverage options it has in the overview, but the main reason I chose those two were because they are not weak to any of the coverage moves it usually runs.
Earth Power does paltry damage to Tyranitar if Sand is up. And keep in mind that Hydreigon can't always afford to run Fire Blast. Are you forgetting that Blissey is weak to Focus Blast, gets worn down quickly by Hazards and Sand, so it doesn't even check Hydreigon consistently?
 
Since Hydreigon forces out a lot of mons when it switches it, it could use that as an opportunity to get a Substitute. The main Mach Punch user Breloom struggles to revenge kill it when it is behind a Substitute. Life Orb in contrast gets Hydreigon worn down much faster and easier for mons to pick it off.



You shouldn't list/exclude counters just because they are weak to Hydreigon's coverage. Moreover, it's important to note that the counters you are listing should be ones that are used in serious matchups. Like, Terrakion is weak to Earth Power/Focus Blast but is fast enough and even gets Special Defense boosts to survive them. Lucario isn't even really used that much in serious games, much less as a counter to Hydreigon. Toxicroak's purpose isn't to check Toxicroak, but to counter Rain.



Ok, I will be concede and say that faster Dragons can counter Hydreigon.



Earth Power does paltry damage to Tyranitar if Sand is up. And keep in mind that Hydreigon can't always afford to run Fire Blast. Are you forgetting that Blissey is weak to Focus Blast, gets worn down quickly by Hazards and Sand, so it doesn't even check Hydreigon consistently?
I will admit that Hydreigon is a good user of Substitute because of the switches it can force, but the main reason I excluded Pokemon that can counter it but are weak to Hydreigon's coverage was because they were also slower then Hydreigon, meaning that they usually will not get a hit off before being KO'd by its coverage, unless it has priority like Mach Punch, which is why Breloom is still listed as a counter despite it being slower then Hydreigon and also weak to Fire Blast. I admit I forgot about Sand Stream's SpD boost, my bad, but I think that Fire Blast is almost always the better choice on it because it hits more things super effectively then Focus Blast does, such as Skarmory, Scizor, and Forretress, but Focus Blast does not outdamage Fire Blast against Pokemon that are weak to both (unless it has a 4x weakness to one of them) Focus Blast is less reliable because of its accuracy and only really works better then Fire Blast against Tyranitar, Blissey, Terrakion and Heatran due to Flash Fire, making it more situational then Fire Blast, but it is definitely very useful against the Pokemon that it targets.
 
I will admit that Hydreigon is a good user of Substitute because of the switches it can force, but the main reason I excluded Pokemon that can counter it but are weak to Hydreigon's coverage was because they were also slower then Hydreigon, meaning that they usually will not get a hit off before being KO'd by its coverage, unless it has priority like Mach Punch, which is why Breloom is still listed as a counter despite it being slower then Hydreigon and also weak to Fire Blast. I admit I forgot about Sand Stream's SpD boost, my bad, but I think that Fire Blast is almost always the better choice on it because it hits more things super effectively then Focus Blast does, such as Skarmory, Scizor, and Forretress, but Focus Blast does not outdamage Fire Blast against Pokemon that are weak to both (unless it has a 4x weakness to one of them) Focus Blast is less reliable because of its accuracy and only really works better then Fire Blast against Tyranitar, Blissey, Terrakion and Heatran due to Flash Fire, making it more situational then Fire Blast, but it is definitely very useful against the Pokemon that it targets.
My point isn’t really that you were excluding slower counters to it, but rather you including mons that aren’t used that often in serious games. Conkeldurr and Infernape have Mach Punch but aren’t commonly seen since they are hard to slap onto serious teams. This undermines your inclusion of them as counters since they are hardly ever seen.

Breloom does work better as a counter since it can fit a Technician set on Smurf HO.

Also, the debate between moves kind of leads to another of Hydreigon’s problems: it’s four moveslot syndrome. It doesn’t have enough coverage to deal with every threat so it ends up being walled by something.
 
My point isn’t really that you were excluding slower counters to it, but rather you including mons that aren’t used that often in serious games. Conkeldurr and Infernape have Mach Punch but aren’t commonly seen since they are hard to slap onto serious teams. This undermines your inclusion of them as counters since they are hardly ever seen.

Breloom does work better as a counter since it can fit a Technician set on Smurf HO.

Also, the debate between moves kind of leads to another of Hydreigon’s problems: it’s four moveslot syndrome. It doesn’t have enough coverage to deal with every threat so it ends up being walled by something.
I have changed some sections or added to the ones that you've suggested changes for, but I still am debating whether or not to remove the Life Orb set and have a Substitute one instead, so I'll try to get back to you on it.
 
Saying that salamence outclasses hydreigon as a scarfer is a major stretch imo. The points are that it doesn't gets access to U-turn,it also suffer a power drop similar to hydreigon except that salamence further couldn't spam any move as easily as hydreigon due to its even worse coverage( draco meteor and dark pulse are still easily spammable compared to outrage which could make you a ferrothorn fodder or give safe opportunities to ttar, and last but not least it is vulnerable to rocks meaning it needs to be more careful when compared to hydreigon. Therefore I think mence's mention should be removed from that point.
 

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