Another double shooting. No one surprised.

Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
The last time a mass school shooting happened I shit posted in the Wall Street Journal that this would happen again. Well i called it. The current Republican controlled, house, senate, presidency, and judiciary won't do anything about it. They are paid not to do anything about it. What are (You) personally going to do to protect yourself from getting shot?
 
to suggest that this issue is a partisan one is inane. democrats have backed blue lives matter bills en masse while simultaneously ignoring gun control legislation. https://splinternews.com/house-democrats-line-up-to-vote-en-masse-for-totally-un-1826115862

"As Jonathan Cohn, a Boston-based editor and progressive activist, rightly pointed out, this bill—and others like it—is “a solution in search of a problem”: police officers already enjoy more protections than most citizens. And as others have noted, categorizing police officers as a group akin to oppressed minority groups is brutally ironic, given how many people of color live in fear of potentially deadly encounters with law enforcement.

So it’s a bit jarring to see that the majority of House Democrats, including some of the chambers’ more progressive members, lined up to support the bill (a total of 162 Democratic members backed the bill, while just 24 voted against the measure). Representative Keith Ellison, who represents Minnesota and has come to be affiliated with the Bernie Sanders wing of the party, voted for the bill, as did Arizona Representative Raul Grijalva, and Jan Schakowsky, of Illinois. You can read the full roll call of the vote here."

any gun control analysis that touts partisan blame is clearly missing the main issues of what is brutalizing our children. yes, it's very clear this problem will keep recurring. you're sylvia browning this, hardcore.
 

Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
to suggest that this issue is a partisan one is inane. democrats have backed blue lives matter bills en masse while simultaneously ignoring gun control legislation. https://splinternews.com/house-democrats-line-up-to-vote-en-masse-for-totally-un-1826115862

"As Jonathan Cohn, a Boston-based editor and progressive activist, rightly pointed out, this bill—and others like it—is “a solution in search of a problem”: police officers already enjoy more protections than most citizens. And as others have noted, categorizing police officers as a group akin to oppressed minority groups is brutally ironic, given how many people of color live in fear of potentially deadly encounters with law enforcement.

So it’s a bit jarring to see that the majority of House Democrats, including some of the chambers’ more progressive members, lined up to support the bill (a total of 162 Democratic members backed the bill, while just 24 voted against the measure). Representative Keith Ellison, who represents Minnesota and has come to be affiliated with the Bernie Sanders wing of the party, voted for the bill, as did Arizona Representative Raul Grijalva, and Jan Schakowsky, of Illinois. You can read the full roll call of the vote here."

any gun control analysis that touts partisan blame is clearly missing the main issues of what is brutalizing our children. yes, it's very clear this problem will keep recurring. you're sylvia browning this, hardcore.

you completely ignored the primary question. What on Gods green earth do your articles have anything to do with crazy folk shooting up our schools? Your article claims that one congress man who affiliates with Bernie Sanders voted for this bill. What the fuck does that mean? What does that have to do with you personally getting shot at by crazy folk? Do you know that Bernie Sanders #1 issue is to get money out of politics? Do you know during the Obama administration every time a mass shooting happened guns sold like hot cakes at a fat camp because people assumed the government would pass some kind of gun control. Gun manufactures make more money after a shooting.

Why should I care or be surprised when you dice get shot at by a crazy person who acquired a firearm? Don't you care that you could be next? A trained officer got shot in the most recent shooting. I know its just a matter of time before the next shooting happens. The only question is "Is it going to be me, dice, or (you)?"

To claim that this "issue is a partisan one is inane." is to negligently risk your life when it is empirically clear which party in our government attempts to confront this issue, and which party takes blood money to shut down research on solutions to solve the gun violence epidemic in our country.

dice don't think of my question as "Why should I care that THOSE people got shot at?" you should approach my question as "why should I care that YOU dice got shot at?"
 
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Frankly I think you both need to chill. While Dice is wrong, you also shouldn’t get this scared that a shooting is coming to you next. It is a possibility, but not worth fretting over. What’s important is that we need to protest and hold leadership accountable or vote them out in six months.
 

Diophantine

Banned deucer.
Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. Let’s just ban Americans!

Jokes aside, my opinion is that the view on and the accessibility of guns in the US needs to change. Living in Britain, guns are scarce as they are outlawed. Criminals do get hold of them but they are more expensive and are very rarely used on civilians (and most cases are mistaken identity where having your own gun won’t protect you). How easy was it for those school shooters to get hold of the guns? You can get one for a birthday present. You can go to your local store and get a cheap one. It’s all too easy, and the US government are completely ignoring the pleas of the survivors of these shootings to appease most Americans who don’t want to give up their guns for stupid ideals.

The whole “people kill people” argument is flawed too. If the people are the ones you are worried about doing the killings, don’t hand them the easiest thing to use to murder people.

I wouldn’t be too worried if I were you, however. Comparitive to the rest of the world, yes, America is fucked. However, you’re more likely to die to a shark or to get hit by a bus than to be murdered in a school shooting.
 
Reviloja753 about what, exactly?

Ohmachi i understand this is a very personal and horrifying issue; however, i was simply commenting on the lens in which we view these atrocities. at the end of the day, democratic politicking hasn't met anyones needs, and the democratic party is right-of-center at best. to consolidate the breadth of societal ills at play, and reduce the issue to "The current Republican controlled, house, senate, presidency, and judiciary", does no service to those who have been slain.

the purpose of the linked article was to demonstrate the milquetoast actions of the beloved democratic party, something a lot of liberals still cling onto. i want to push the conversation outward, to escape bipartisan distractions.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...parkland-students-manifesto-americas-gun-laws

take a look at mainstream gun control activists: the parkland survivors. I'll be the first to admit that I was incredibly supportive of the students at first. it's amazing to see fellow youth, a demographic that is dismissed as politically incompetent and idealistic, galvanize a polity that has been long overdue for change. that being said, however, I cannot support much what is written here. just because the organizers are young doesn't mean that they can shirk accountability. this manifesto outlines practices which are actively harmful to both students, especially of color, and the public at large. an increased security force and bloated surveillance through a database are both remarkably dangerous policies. not to mention the conflation of mental health and violence.

gun violence has created generational trauma and created so much emotion and trauma. when i posted abt political parties, and my critique of the parkland students -- it isn't meant to throw the baby out with the bath water. i am not attacking you, the students, or anyone involved. we need to simply learn, understand, and compassionately move toward how to make life safer for everyone. right now, that's not the case. intersectionality.

whiteness doesn't even have compassion for its offspring when juxtaposed to the profits of guns and capitalism. what does this mean, then? how do we approach these structural systems that create the millieu for school schooters? incels?

in many ways, too, mainstream gun control frames state intervention as a necessity to curtail interpersonal violence, instead of interrogating how the state bolsters interpersonal violence. the school to prison pipeline, economic inequities, sexist tools of policing and regulations.

and there lies the question: why are the most marginalized folks not committing these crimes? what does this say about white male rage and masculinity?

i resonated very much so with these words:

http://racebaitr.com/2018/04/10/why-they-shoot-us-at-home-black-people-have-no-safe-places/

"Taking away guns from civilians and police in the United States is not a solution to protecting Black lives, though it will make it more difficult for us to be killed in our homes, cars, and schools by police or others. It will not instantaneously create a paradigm shift where Black lives suddenly matter. However, drawing attention to the reality that the fault lies with the government paves the way for more substantial ideas and the possibility to imagine completely new alternatives. Alternatives with the basis of valuing Black human life as a requisite to valuing all human life."

and that poses the questions: how do you get there? to what extent do you give credence to working within the political system? how do you pressure it? whose leadership do you value? who is being ignored in the conversation? who is mainstream? why?
 
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Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
Frankly I think you both need to chill. While Dice is wrong, you also shouldn’t get this scared that a shooting is coming to you next. It is a possibility, but not worth fretting over. What’s important is that we need to protest and hold leadership accountable or vote them out in six months.
Reviloja753 about what, exactly?

Ohmachi i understand this is a very personal and horrifying issue; however, i was simply commenting on the lens in which we view these atrocities. at the end of the day, democratic politicking hasn't met anyones needs, and the democratic party is right-of-center at best. to consolidate the breadth of societal ills at play, and reduce the issue to "The current Republican controlled, house, senate, presidency, and judiciary", does no service to those who have been slain.

the purpose of the linked article was to demonstrate the milquetoast actions of the beloved democratic party, something a lot of liberals still cling onto. i want to push the conversation outward, to escape bipartisan distractions.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...parkland-students-manifesto-americas-gun-laws

take a look at mainstream gun control activists: the parkland survivors. I'll be the first to admit that I was incredibly supportive of the students at first. it's amazing to see fellow youth, a demographic that is dismissed as politically incompetent and idealistic, galvanize a polity that has been long overdue for change. that being said, however, I cannot support much what is written here. just because the organizers are young doesn't mean that they can shirk accountability. this manifesto outlines practices which are actively harmful to both students, especially of color, and the public at large. an increased security force and bloated surveillance through a database are both remarkably dangerous policies. not to mention the conflation of mental health and violence.

gun violence has created generational trauma and created so much emotion and trauma. when i posted abt political parties, and my critique of the parkland students -- it isn't meant to throw the baby out with the bath water. i am not attacking you, the students, or anyone involved. we need to simply learn, understand, and compassionately move toward how to make life safer for everyone. right now, that's not the case. intersectionality.

whiteness doesn't even have compassion for its offspring when juxtaposed to the profits of guns and capitalism. what does this mean, then? how do we approach these structural systems that create the millieu for school schooters? incels?

in many ways, too, mainstream gun control frames state intervention as a necessity to curtail interpersonal violence, instead of interrogating how the state bolsters interpersonal violence. the school to prison pipeline, economic inequities, sexist tools of policing and regulations.

and there lies the question: why are the most marginalized folks not committing these crimes? what does this say about white male rage and masculinity?

i resonated very much so with these words:

http://racebaitr.com/2018/04/10/why-they-shoot-us-at-home-black-people-have-no-safe-places/

"Taking away guns from civilians and police in the United States is not a solution to protecting Black lives, though it will make it more difficult for us to be killed in our homes, cars, and schools by police or others. It will not instantaneously create a paradigm shift where Black lives suddenly matter. However, drawing attention to the reality that the fault lies with the government paves the way for more substantial ideas and the possibility to imagine completely new alternatives. Alternatives with the basis of valuing Black human life as a requisite to valuing all human life."

and that poses the questions: how do you get there? to what extent do you give credence to working within the political system? how do you pressure it? whose leadership do you value? who is being ignored in the conversation? who is mainstream? why?
It's ok I've already forgotten about the Pakistani transfer student who got shot. Our politicians did literally nothing again... we did nothing again. I did nothing.

Also it's funny that when talking about gun violence in the country we have to clarify what kind kind of gun violence in order to have a conversation. It's clear that I wanted to talk about mass shootings but you one of yall wanted to talk about police shootings.
 
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tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Why aren't they distributing anti-bullet vests instead?
im still sitting here wondering why back to school sales aren't selling Glocks so these poor kids can actually defend themselves. tactical defense kit featuring a pistol a medkit and a kevlar vest inside every new purchase of a jansport backpack

they can even have catchy slogans like "never forgetta your beretta"
 
I may not have much insight due to not living in the US, but the excuses I've seen to not apply gun control are simply outlandish.

If it really were because of any of those other factors they mentioned, then why is the US the only country where you see school shootings so often? Why can't it be because of comparatively lax gun control laws? (Say, here in Argentina, the only school shooting ever since I was born happened in 2004, and the shooter had to steal a gun owned by his father, a naval subofficer)
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
re: dice being [redacted] don't edit my posts dammit, I'm willing to give congressional Democrats the benefit of the doubt that they're willing to vote in favor of inane bullshit like "Blue Lives Matter" for the sake of staving off would-be Republican attack ads come election time because the bill doesn't really do anything anyway. Popo are already pretty well protected by existing laws. It's a vote of pure pragmatism, in a modern political landscape that has consistently betrayed trying to be the better (wo)man by turning the other cheek and given us this sham of a current presidency.

Gun control is only a partisan issue because the NRA effectively makes it one by painting anyone supporting anything remotely resembling any form of gun control as dangerous authoritarians, and they blanket supports Republicans . People needlessly dying isn't a fucking political issue at all, it's a practical problem (that needs to be solved through politics but I digress). The main argument of gun control opposers is basically summed up as "laws don't prevent all crime, so why even bother making laws?" Fucking dumb. Most people aren't advocating blanket banning all guns and you don't need anything more than a small pistol at worst to defend yourself or a lever-action rifle for basic hunting. More than that is mere hobbyism, which by no means outweighs people's lives, or criminal intent which improved gun control immensely helps with.

Yes, some criminals will still get guns and cause problems with them. But it's not exactly a stretch to assume that making guns harder to acquire also makes it harder for criminals to get them. More criminals will have to do without, which makes all those crimes less dangerous/deadly if not outright discouraging some from occuring. Fewer mentally unhealthy people with access to guns may well dissuade some people from trying to kill themselves too, because it isn't as easy as putting a bullet in your head if you don't have a gun to put it there, and then they can receive the help they need. Maybe even cops don't have to be so fucking antsy if they don't have to assume every other perpetrator has a gun either.

The complete opposite side of the controversy is that violent crime overall in the U.S. has been falling for 20+ years, the past two years being an exception and even then it's still far below its peak in the early 90's, and a few high-profile cases making news of recent doesn't meaningfully change that trend. From a strictly rational point of view, the issue is way overblown on both sides.
 
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BP

Beers and Steers
is a Contributor to Smogon
I don't know if you guys heard this or not but on June 19th of this year there was mass shooting at a New Jersey arts festival. It left 1 dead and 22 injured. I never saw it in the news at all and the reason for that is in my opinion because it involved 2 gang members who obtained their weapons illegally, in a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
If you're geuinely worried about getting shot, then the best course of action would be to purchase a concealed carry firearm and carry it around unloaded. If you're being threatened by a criminal or are in a dangerous situation, showing you have a gun will almost always cause the perpetrator to leave you alone.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
nothing could possibly go wrong
Well according to polling, criminals are much more afraid of one of their victims owning a gun than a cop showing up. 3/5 felons say that they would completely avoid trying to assault or rob someone with a gun. You can theorize all you want about how you think having a gun bad situation would turn out, but the data shows pretty clearly that criminals are deterred first and forenost by victims carrying firearms.
 

Surgo

goes to eleven
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Well according to polling, criminals are much more afraid of one of their victims owning a gun than a cop showing up. 3/5 felons say that they would completely avoid trying to assault or rob someone with a gun. You can theorize all you want about how you think having a gun bad situation would turn out, but the data shows pretty clearly that criminals are deterred first and forenost by victims carrying firearms.
You're gonna need to cite sources and be a lot more specific.

For example, basic home burglaries are spoiled by simply being in the house. Knowledge of a house having firearms is also likely to get you burgled, because you have a small and very valuable item that is extremely easy to grab and abscond with.

I have a concealed carry permit and that fact will deter exactly zero crime on my person because any weapon I carry will be concealed. And it's not something that you just wave around because first of all, that's seriously stupid, and second there are many laws around brandishing.
 

Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
Gun violence happens again and again and again and again and again and again and ag..... yet our conservstive friends still think litteraly nothing should be done about it. At least that's what the politicans they vote for do.

When ever I hear about a shooting I think of it about the same as a large car crash.
 
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Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
It turns out the third safest community in the U.S. is not the third safest when it comes to mass shootings. I predict another shooting of this level within the next month.
 

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