If you're gonna get into the weeds on "pokemon limits" then its probably just follow the level ranges as the easiest solution. Even when there's low level throws in later areas, it's still pretty easy to see that the path to Katy & the path to Brassius have approximately the same level range and then you immediately hit the next barrier and tis like ah. right. Wee bit out of my range.
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In-game tier list policy discussion thread
- Thread starter Codraroll
- Start date
Thank you for your support DHR-107. It will take some time for an OP to be made however. I’m going to review every Mon in the game, find out where the important items are, and get a decent route in mind.
Screw the mons in tress like Applin and Slakoth though.
Yeah Azumarill has been top tier in-game since Gen 6 and I expect it to fully carry over in this game since you don't have to put up with Azurill.
What is a nice surprise is how good Florges is for once! It's terrible in the other games, but is actually viable in this one.
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My main concern is Raids giving you a wider access to many Pokémon. The simplest approach would be to just ignore them, but these lists are primarily a guide to players to show them how well something will perform -- and a lot of players probably would use something interesting they find in a raid earlygame. It opens up a lot of variables to deal with.
I think the only practical decision is to ignore raids, they're uncontrollable and extremely variant in what and when appears. If someone finds something they want to use that appears earlier than it's normally accessible I don't think its unreasonable for them to see the rating that assumes a normal acquisition time and then figure the rest out themselves - they're already deviating from the standard paths by choice at that point.
That's actually very relative.
Early in the game pretty much anything you can get from raids you can also just catch normally in the wild, with no significant difference other than maybe a egg move or HA. Fully evolved or otherwise hard to acquire pokemon like Slowking or Scizor don't appear until 4-5 star raids, which require to basically be either on the final storyline or close to.
The main reason to disregard raids is the fact they provide Exp candies.
If you want to consider raids in a "tier list", then every pokemon is S tier because due to exp candies you can just overlevel the entire game right away.
I mean, you can say the same thing about the EXP Candies you get from classes. The place where we draw the line is pretty grey. I think assuming normal acquisition for usable raids is fine as long as you aren’t, like, getting a five star earlygame with help from a friend.
I think may as well ignore raids because they're so unaccountable for because of their randomness.
Meanwhile candies are everywhere (nobody is going to sit through like 30 minutes of classes to get the paltry amount of candies for the sake of a tier list, but they're out there on the field regardless of raids), but like. Nobody goes out of their way to over level in these games so like...that's a non issue. It's like pearl clutching over Audino grinding or whatever; almost no one is grinding to level 80. If you feel you need to use them, use them and just make a note in the same way you would if you grinded them in a normal playthrough so that's roughly equivalent.
Meanwhile candies are everywhere (nobody is going to sit through like 30 minutes of classes to get the paltry amount of candies for the sake of a tier list, but they're out there on the field regardless of raids), but like. Nobody goes out of their way to over level in these games so like...that's a non issue. It's like pearl clutching over Audino grinding or whatever; almost no one is grinding to level 80. If you feel you need to use them, use them and just make a note in the same way you would if you grinded them in a normal playthrough so that's roughly equivalent.
bow before the busted bivalve Shellder / Cloyster in SV
seriously this is laughably broken even by stone evolution standards
(I have some forty mons to go as most paradox mons are too late to be helpful)
seriously this is laughably broken even by stone evolution standards
(I have some forty mons to go as most paradox mons are too late to be helpful)
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Is shellder catchable before you unlock swimming? Felt like every time I saw one (or Cloyster) it was in the middle of the ocean (and cloyster was a pain in the ass who WOULDNT COME OUT OF THE DEEP END TO FIGHT ME, COWARD)
I feel like once the thread goes live people need to spend some time making sure "ok so how annoying is this to actually get for real though", because Rare rates even before accounting for sandwiches aren't necessarily meaningful (my favorite example is Roaring Moon/Iron Valiant which I think internally is like a 1% encounter and in practice this is meaningless because you find them frequently in their little cave) and where the pokemon appears isn't necessarily intuitive
E: Also should probably look into how much sandwiches swing things because store bought sandwiches and ice creams are EVERYWHERE and don't raise affection.
I feel like once the thread goes live people need to spend some time making sure "ok so how annoying is this to actually get for real though", because Rare rates even before accounting for sandwiches aren't necessarily meaningful (my favorite example is Roaring Moon/Iron Valiant which I think internally is like a 1% encounter and in practice this is meaningless because you find them frequently in their little cave) and where the pokemon appears isn't necessarily intuitive
E: Also should probably look into how much sandwiches swing things because store bought sandwiches and ice creams are EVERYWHERE and don't raise affection.
OK using that as a guide point I did find where they spawn since the beach is not a very obvious part of the Lake area: they do show up in the water and the beach is very small, but there's enough close by that you can lock on and throw a pokemon at it.
The nearby Porto Marinada beach also has them spawn though its a little more crowded with Pokemon so it was harder to lock on
"That Bellibolt is out there, it can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely will not stop… EVER, until Brassius is dead from an absurdly overpowered Thunderbolt!”
In all seriousness, early Thunderbolt Bellibolt is ridiculous despite being slow. It's even better if you sequence break even more and get the Magnet from Cascarrafa.
I did several playthroughs, if there will be a tier list or a "viability ranking" of some sort I might give you my opinion about some of the pokémon I used.
Two of the best pokémon you can use, especially for the early parts, are Azumarill and Flamigo.
Flamigo has the big advantage that it doesn't need to evolve to gain its full strength, it is easily obtainable and has a good offensive typing. Most people might ditch their Flamigo later, but I assume that it might even be useful until the very end of the game (didn't test it myself)
Azumarill is very easy to evolve of Azurill/Marill, Azurill is one of the first pokémon you'll find on your journey, and Azumarill itselfs learns very strong moves like Play Rough or Aqua Tail shortly after being fully evolved. And it remains strong until the very end.
Other pokémons I used
It is certainly solid, overall above average I would say. It doesn't have many bad matchups and I find ground types particularly useful to have in general. Movepool / Traits are good too
Kilowattrel: Easy to put in your team since it has few weaknesses, can support using Tailwind or Volt Switch, has high Speed too.
But overall I wouldn't say it is better than average, because although it has a nice defensive typing, it isn't bulky at all, and the movepool is only average as well beside the support options I mentioned earlier
Gardevoir: Later in the game, when you have access to the majority of the TMs, it becomes very strong. But before that point it is not impressive. Ralts needs babysitting, Kirlia is below average as well. Hypnosis is a useful move though. Above Average overall I would say since you can catch Ralts very early which makes all the babysitting manageable.
Tinkaton: Nice defensive typing. The movepool, including the TM options, is pretty decent. But overall I can't say it is better than average. It's base stats are unimpressive and once you fight a target resisting your Gigaton Hammer it is a pretty harmless pokémon. I used it to slay dragons and fairies and that's about it for the most part.
Umbreon: It is niche, you play it if you want to have an easy answer to Ghost or Psychic Pokémons. I only played it because it is one of my favourite pokémons. Since it attack is pretty low it can be used to safely weaken pokémons in order to catch them. But overall I am afraid that it is not that interesting choice for most players. For me it worked fine, but for most players it will be below average I am afraid.
Volcarona: It evolves very late and it is not strong before evolution, so below average or even low tier.
Pawmot: Easily obtainable, fast and easy evolutions makes it strong during the early parts of the game. But in my experience it drops later on. So overall an average pokémon
Arcanine: Growlithe is obtainable pretty early, and getting a fire stone is no problem at all. And once evolved, Arcanine is pretty strong. So above average
Vaporeon: Same story as Arcanine. Get TM for Surf, teach it Ice Beam later and you have a solid pokémon. Average I would say, gets the job done if you need a water type.
And for the starters, in the end I would say all of them are above average choices.
Two of the best pokémon you can use, especially for the early parts, are Azumarill and Flamigo.
Flamigo has the big advantage that it doesn't need to evolve to gain its full strength, it is easily obtainable and has a good offensive typing. Most people might ditch their Flamigo later, but I assume that it might even be useful until the very end of the game (didn't test it myself)
Azumarill is very easy to evolve of Azurill/Marill, Azurill is one of the first pokémon you'll find on your journey, and Azumarill itselfs learns very strong moves like Play Rough or Aqua Tail shortly after being fully evolved. And it remains strong until the very end.
Other pokémons I used
It is certainly solid, overall above average I would say. It doesn't have many bad matchups and I find ground types particularly useful to have in general. Movepool / Traits are good tooKilowattrel: Easy to put in your team since it has few weaknesses, can support using Tailwind or Volt Switch, has high Speed too.
But overall I wouldn't say it is better than average, because although it has a nice defensive typing, it isn't bulky at all, and the movepool is only average as well beside the support options I mentioned earlier
Gardevoir: Later in the game, when you have access to the majority of the TMs, it becomes very strong. But before that point it is not impressive. Ralts needs babysitting, Kirlia is below average as well. Hypnosis is a useful move though. Above Average overall I would say since you can catch Ralts very early which makes all the babysitting manageable.
Tinkaton: Nice defensive typing. The movepool, including the TM options, is pretty decent. But overall I can't say it is better than average. It's base stats are unimpressive and once you fight a target resisting your Gigaton Hammer it is a pretty harmless pokémon. I used it to slay dragons and fairies and that's about it for the most part.
Umbreon: It is niche, you play it if you want to have an easy answer to Ghost or Psychic Pokémons. I only played it because it is one of my favourite pokémons. Since it attack is pretty low it can be used to safely weaken pokémons in order to catch them. But overall I am afraid that it is not that interesting choice for most players. For me it worked fine, but for most players it will be below average I am afraid.
Volcarona: It evolves very late and it is not strong before evolution, so below average or even low tier.
Pawmot: Easily obtainable, fast and easy evolutions makes it strong during the early parts of the game. But in my experience it drops later on. So overall an average pokémon
Arcanine: Growlithe is obtainable pretty early, and getting a fire stone is no problem at all. And once evolved, Arcanine is pretty strong. So above average
Vaporeon: Same story as Arcanine. Get TM for Surf, teach it Ice Beam later and you have a solid pokémon. Average I would say, gets the job done if you need a water type.
And for the starters, in the end I would say all of them are above average choices.
I used Mudsdale, it wasn’t that great. B tier I’d say. I hated how slow it was and it can never really tank effectively in a game that loves using multiple Pokémon trainer battles.
As for Arcanine, just…that shouldn’t be available at level 24. The relearned moves break the game.
If anybody is wondering why the list is taking some time to release, myself and my co-leader are taking some time to do playthroughs with all the starters. I want to make sure the OP is very informed, and also give the game some time to simmer as not everyone has played it yet. The Pokémon Reviews I did for the entire dex of 400 Pokémon in roughly two weeks.were over 130 pages long, for reference. We’re also noting stuff like important items and TMs too. This game is massive.
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Well, a "B" for Mudsdale would mean that it isn't bad at all, so that is fine with me.
In the playthrough I used one I gave it Leftovers and it had the Stamina Trait, so it could tank at least physical non super effective hits reasonably well. In the worst case you use a potion.
But I admit I might be a bit biased towards Mudsdale since I enjoyed it very much in my Gen 8 playthroughs.
Btw, I just started another scarlet playthrough because there are several pokémons I would like to try out:
The planned Team: Meowscarada / Azumarill / Armarouge / Garganacl / Annihilape / Corviknight
I am especially interested in Armarouge's, Garganacl's and Annihilape's performances.
In the playthrough I used one I gave it Leftovers and it had the Stamina Trait, so it could tank at least physical non super effective hits reasonably well. In the worst case you use a potion.
But I admit I might be a bit biased towards Mudsdale since I enjoyed it very much in my Gen 8 playthroughs.
Btw, I just started another scarlet playthrough because there are several pokémons I would like to try out:
The planned Team: Meowscarada / Azumarill / Armarouge / Garganacl / Annihilape / Corviknight
I am especially interested in Armarouge's, Garganacl's and Annihilape's performances.
I hope you are pleasantly surprised by Meowscarda. Flower Trick is a busted move and even before evolution, level 20 Seed Bomb is by no means bad as from Iono on, it hits every Gym neutrally with Grass moves bar a couple Pokemon. Solid A tier when I used it - it felt like the best Grass starter in the entire series.
I use Meowscarada in my violet playthrough team, but I am only halfway through the game so far.
Oddly enough I spend much more time playing Scarlet, I know the differences between the editions are pretty minor, but I somehow enjoy playing Scarlet more than playing Violet. I am still on my first run in Violet but in Scarlet I started several runs and even finished some so far.
Oddly enough I spend much more time playing Scarlet, I know the differences between the editions are pretty minor, but I somehow enjoy playing Scarlet more than playing Violet. I am still on my first run in Violet but in Scarlet I started several runs and even finished some so far.
Honestly, just get the thread up and reserve the first like ten posts - put up a brief overview and let people start discussing stuff.
Add stuff as you need/want. But the extra discussion from a lot of players will help greatly.
We shouldn't really be discussing it here - so get the OP up with some loose rules and have at it.
Add stuff as you need/want. But the extra discussion from a lot of players will help greatly.
We shouldn't really be discussing it here - so get the OP up with some loose rules and have at it.
Sure thing. Sorry for the delay. Apologies for the discussion happening here.
I know there's talk above of an in-game tier list for Scarlet & Violet coming out at some point, so this question will probably be answered when that occurs, but I am curious - what are the stand-out new Pokemon from Paldea, either in terms of being an S/A tier monster or so bad it's almost unbelievable? I'm sure some older generation Pokemon will make their way to the top but I'm mainly interested in the newer Pokemon, maybe because I don't fully get Pokemon and TM availability in this game.
Considering the unbelievable power creep Paldea somehow achieved, there’s a big chance that there are more than a few A-rank and S-rank Paldea-introduced Pokémon.
Some introduced mons like Spidops and Squawkabilly are only useful for early game or outright unusuable at worst.
The fighting type flamingo thing and Meowscarada will probably be up there, given they are the go to Speedrun mons.