Implemented Increasing the Maximum Bye percentage in Double Elimination to remove 3*2^N Size brackets

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Boat

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The problems and solutions I describe in this post relate specifically to double elimination, and not to single elimination.

At the moment, there are several problems with double elimination. The most significant is how double elimination handles round robins. Currently, there is no "official" way to handle round robin in double elimination (i.e how many people drop into Loser's Bracket, which round do they drop into, etc). Several months ago, I asked a TD this question, and I received the answer "do what your heart says". If double elimination follows the format for round robins of single elimination (winner moves on, two losers drop down), then double elimination requires 3(!) round robins (Winner's Finals, Loser's Semifinals, Loser's Finals). Each round robin has the potential to reset, adding weeks to the tournament. Additionally, round robins are generally unpopular in both single and double elimination, as evidenced by the insistence of the player base that OST not use a 1536 size bracket. In summary, round robins are both unpopular and have the potential to significantly impact the duration of a tour in double elimination.

I strongly feel that 3*2^N brackets, henceforth called "odd brackets" make little sense in double elimination, and I identify them as the main culprit for many of the problems with the format. Triple round robin is incredibly bad, and the existence of odd brackets stop double elimination from advancing as a format (see my previous Tournament Policy post for an example).

Here's my proposal.

Remove the odd bracket ranges and increase the Max Bye %. As many will remember for OST, the vast majority of the player base wanted the TDs to ignore the Max Bye % (currently 10%) to avoid round robin finals. OST was started with around 17% byes. I see no reason why this can't be established as policy for a format in which odd brackets cause more damage. I think exactly 25% Max Byes would be effective, and I do not think there is anything wrong with having different Max Bye %s for single elimination and double elimination. The new bracket ranges would be the following.

Size: 16 12 - 23
Size: 32 24 - 47
Size: 64 48 - 95
Size: 128 96 - 191
Size: 256 192 - 383

I think this would an appropriate solution that would not compromise the competitiveness of the tour. For anybody with the potential to win the tour, whether or not they receive a R1 bye should be inconsequential. This is especially true for double elimination brackets, where there is a "safety net" coming from the existence of the Loser's Bracket. Furthermore, from the perspective of player enjoyment, I would wager that round robin and it's potential to extend the tournament is more impactful then whether or not they receive a R1 Bye. Crucially, this solution changes an already existing system, rather than implementing a new system for hosts to learn. Because the largest double elimination tournament on Smogon (to the best of my knowledge) is 256 Size (CG OU Seasonal), the large bracket sizes that can end up with hundreds of byes aren't relevant.

If the TD team is unwilling to implement a higher Bye % for double elimination, I would ask that they implement something for double elimination that prevents us from needing three round robins. That's really the biggest issue here.
 

Lutra

Spreadsheeter by day, Random Ladderer by night.
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It’s worth noting that Winner’s Finals and Loser’s Semifinals are parallel, so they don’t have to wait for each other to start. The Loser’s Finals wait on them and then the Grand Finals wait on that.

Round 2s are already problematic in terms of battles getting done in them; in addition to the people who immediately decide to quit when they fall into the loser bracket, you are proposing potentially 25% (up from 10%) byes joining the loser bracket too. More undeserved points for the year-end circuit championships doesn’t sound too good to me either.

I don’t understand why the 10% rule is not done in 1/8s like the 5/8 signups included rule is though, or if it’s purposely different and if it’s purposely different, is it worth it? 25% is 2/8, so that seems more consistent proportion-wise.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
I think double elimination brackets have already been ignoring max bye percentage for a while. See for example the latest dou seasonal that started with 27 byes in a 128-man bracket. I agree with the OP that since double elim can't do round robin finals, this is the lesser of two evils. I guess it's worth an explicit mention in the hosting guide.
 

Eo Ut Mortus

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Sorry for the lack of response. The TDs have agreed to codify Boat (phiwings99)'s solution, that is, to eliminate round-robin double elimination by increasing the maximum bye percentage thresholds as described in the OP. A concern raised internally was that this is not supported by the current bracketmaker, which uses hardcoded bye percentages, and incorporating that flexibility might introduce undue complexity for the user. Our workaround is as follows: Starting from the bottom, the host should convert pairings generated by the bracketmaker to byes until the expected number of byes for a tournament of that size is reached.

For example, after the host makes the bracket for a tournament with 48 signups, he will manually "separate' the last 8 pairings and give byes to them, leaving him with 32 real pairings and 16 players facing byes for a 64 "man" tournament.
 
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