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Azurill is currently banned as a donor due to one thing, and one thing only: Its ability Huge Power. Makes sense, right?
Well, when you have such an amazing offensive ability, you obviously need a good physical movepool to complement it. What does Azurill get?
Waterfall
Knock Off
Return/Frustration
Double-Edge
Iron Tail
Natural Gift
Bounce
Yup, that's it. The fact I had to list Natural Gift as a "good physical move" shows how bad Azurill's physical movepool is. But that's not all. Azurill is missing two key moves that make its evolutions unmanageable: Aqua Jet and Belly Drum. This means that not only does it not have any priority, but it also has zero way to boost its physical Attack: not even status z-moves can help it.
However, once I started to investigate further and create some potential example sets, I found a few mons that could be problematic if they were to inherit from Azurill.
Ambipom @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Return
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail
Weavile @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Return
- Double-Edge
- Iron Tail
Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Return
- Iron Tail
These pokemon gain a large amount of Attack thanks to HP and have some strong STABs in spite of the mediocre coverage, as well as being very fast. Despite this, these Pokemon are not impossible to check. Due to their frailty, they can be checked by faster threats like Mega Alakazam, Tapu Koko, Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill and Mega Lopunny, as well as Espeeders like Bewear and Mega Pinsir. In addition, they can be checked defensively by Mega Aggron (It's good, trust me), Ferrothorn, Persian-A Buzzwole and Registeel. Weavile and Greninja can be specifically defensively checked by Suicune, Toxapex and Tapu Fini, while Ambipom can be checked by Celesteela, Dhelmise and Mega Mawile, as well as having to predict switch-ins from Scarf Chandelure.
Finally, as stunning as it may seem, unbanning Azurill as a donor could actually have some healthy effects on the meta. Right now, there is a lot of frustration and controversy surrounding stall in the meta, and unbanning Azurill could make that playstyle much easier to handle while not completely invalidating it, for as shown earlier, it still has checks like Persian-A inheritors and Celesteela.
At risk of getting I flamed and berated I encourage people to discuss this further. Could Azurill work as a donor in Inheritance without being broken? Could it help solve some issues in the metagame?
Hell no. Donating Double Edge, Knock Off, and Waterfall alone make it a broken af wallbreaker. If we determine stall to be a problem the solution will not be to unban Huge Power (Azurill isn't even banned from donating, Huge Power itself is banned). Unbanning a broken thing to check other broken things is not a good idea for attempting to balance a tier.
Even if this wasn't a complex unban I would be against it and the fact that it is complex makes it completely ridiculous.
Alright, so I think I found a set that seems to be completely un-counterable. There isn't much of an answer Megazard X when allowing it to inherit from Victini. The Tough Claws bonus plus STAB makes the power of V-Create go to 351, which is mind-boggling. Ran with sun and sticky web support, this number jumps to 526, which seems to OHKO all sets that include Cresselia. With Zard's superb typing and coverage in the also-awesome Bolt Strike to counter Suicune, I think it's something that may be a little breaking to the meta and I've been seeing it quite often. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-694337706
Charizard!Victini is really good, but it does have its counters, for example Zygarde (unless you're running Glaciate) or various things running Flash Fire.
Finally, here's a neat set digitalson came up with today.
Jynx (Chandelure) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lovely Kiss
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast / Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
Jynx is the only thing that gets an accurate sleep move + Nasty Plot / Tail Glow. Sleep + Speed Boost, Nasty Plot, kill things, and try not to die to a turn 1 wake. Dry Skin gives Chandy a nice immunity. Gengar can also be run with this set, or possibly Froslass for dual stab.
Are you sure you're not thinking of like, primals in BH? I'm not sure I've seen a mega inherit from Porygon-Z the entire time I've played this meta. I'm pretty sure most viable megas have better sets available to them.
Are you sure you're not thinking of like, primals in BH? I'm not sure I've seen a mega inherit from Porygon-Z the entire time I've played this meta. I'm pretty sure most viable megas have better sets available to them.
Actually, Mega Ampharos is the main inheritor of Porygon Z.
In fact it's the only real user of Porygon Z besides maybe Hoopa. (no, Vikavolt is not a thing)
Azurill is currently banned as a donor due to one thing, and one thing only: Its ability Huge Power. Makes sense, right?
Well, when you have such an amazing offensive ability, you obviously need a good physical movepool to complement it. What does Azurill get?
Waterfall
Knock Off
Return/Frustration
Double-Edge
Iron Tail
Natural Gift
Bounce
Yup, that's it. The fact I had to list Natural Gift as a "good physical move" shows how bad Azurill's physical movepool is. But that's not all. Azurill is missing two key moves that make its evolutions unmanageable: Aqua Jet and Belly Drum. This means that not only does it not have any priority, but it also has zero way to boost its physical Attack: not even status z-moves can help it.
However, once I started to investigate further and create some potential example sets, I found a few mons that could be problematic if they were to inherit from Azurill.
Ambipom @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Return
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail
Weavile @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Return
- Double-Edge
- Iron Tail
Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Return
- Iron Tail
These pokemon gain a large amount of Attack thanks to HP and have some strong STABs in spite of the mediocre coverage, as well as being very fast. Despite this, these Pokemon are not impossible to check. Due to their frailty, they can be checked by faster threats like Mega Alakazam, Tapu Koko, Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill and Mega Lopunny, as well as Espeeders like Bewear and Mega Pinsir. In addition, they can be checked defensively by Mega Aggron (It's good, trust me), Ferrothorn, Persian-A Buzzwole and Registeel. Weavile and Greninja can be specifically defensively checked by Suicune, Toxapex and Tapu Fini, while Ambipom can be checked by Celesteela, Dhelmise and Mega Mawile, as well as having to predict switch-ins from Scarf Chandelure.
Finally, as stunning as it may seem, unbanning Azurill as a donor could actually have some healthy effects on the meta. Right now, there is a lot of frustration and controversy surrounding stall in the meta, and unbanning Azurill could make that playstyle much easier to handle while not completely invalidating it, for as shown earlier, it still has checks like Persian-A inheritors and Celesteela.
At risk of getting I flamed and berated I encourage people to discuss this further. Could Azurill work as a donor in Inheritance without being broken? Could it help solve some issues in the metagame?
azurill isnt banned. its huge/pure power that is banned, and unbanning huge/pure power on azu alone would be a complex ban. and i dont think i need to get into details on why its a terrible idea to make complex bans for arbitrary things like "Azu's movepool is meh".
also if you want to get technical, if water bubble with araquanid's trash movepool was enough to ban it (surf/liquidation being its ONLY real noticeable move alongside ice beam) this could naturally pose a problem for the exact same reasons.
and for the nail-in-the-coffin, might as well unban speed boost on yanma, arena trap on diglett, and shell smash on clampearl. complex bans just breed MORE complex bans, and by making one exception, eventually "blaze blaziken" will be brought up. its just a slippery slope no meta should have to deal with.
and before you say "just ban the mons not the abilities!" that would just be restricting the meta way more then it should.
so ye...no. no id rather not discuss this. id consider a arena trap unban over a complex ban, and i hate trapping so much i actually try to persuade metas to ban magnet pull. so thats saying something.
Finally, here's a neat set digitalson came up with today.
Jynx (Chandelure) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lovely Kiss
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast / Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
Jynx is the only thing that gets an accurate sleep move + Nasty Plot / Tail Glow. Sleep + Speed Boost, Nasty Plot, kill things, and try not to die to a turn 1 wake. Dry Skin gives Chandy a nice immunity. Gengar can also be run with this set, or possibly Froslass for dual stab.
hypnosis is still pretty accurate y'know. i mean, people complain about stone edge missing, so id hardly consider lovely kiss "accurate" and xurk's ability is MUCH better appriciated since it provides speed boosts(so you dont have to waste your Z-move) or special attack boosts (ayy a worse soul heart) the fact your relying on focus blast too, which is also known for being innacurate only further makes me question if you actually HIT anything.
also fun fact: parasect/breloom gets SD+spore and decent offensive moves, which is the ONLY true accurate sleep move+boosting combo. dry skin too. rekt. parasect is pretty nice with weavile from my experience, spore, SD, knock off, and cross poison was the set i was using lmao. so im sure people can easily find better variants using these two mons. and id consider using them before crawling over to....guh...lovely miss/hypnoshit
Protean Vest Stakataka supports his offensive and defensive qualities, which ends up working for me in many many situations.
Terrakion with Adaptability increases the power of Z moves , which I really enjoy to use against defensive / stall mons that annoy me and with access to Dragon Dance I outspeed Mega Swampert in the Rain at + 2 . At + 3 pretty much everything else. The low Speed investments do not really change anything. Even with Jolly max Speed I still need + 2 to outspeed Mega Swampert in the rain for example.
Stakataka @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
- Fake Out
Terrakion @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance
Terrakion not investing in speed is a terrible idea, as you cannot threaten much with that low initial speed, lose out on crucial speed ties, revengekilled by several scarfers and doesn't have the bulk to set up safely
to be fair, I use it in a bulky offensive team where i have many possible switches and options with terrakion being just one of them and with a dual screen min speed uturn cresselia to support the team. otherwise I would probably indeed use more speed, ye.
Ok, now for real, Cresselia is the elephant in the room that needs to be addressed.
It can run 3 good abilities (even more, but those are the important ones): Unaware, Prankster and Magic Bounce.
The problem is, that I don't know beforehand, which one I have to take on. I use Mold Breaker SD Chomp to deal with unaware mons, but then it turns out the Cress I'm facing runs Prankster Haze. Or he has another mons in his back with Magic Bounce if I want to Poison it. And sometimes it might even run Regenerator in a Regen-core or Simple Calm Mind, which reverse-sweeps me.
It's not stall in general that I think is imbalanced right now, it is Cresselia with its massive bulk and wide variety of abilities, that in and of itself walls 90% of the meta. I HAVE to dedicate more than 3 of my slots to certain niche sets JUST to deal with Cresselia and even then I have to scout for the correct set. Inbetween my Trapper (Heatran) gets reverse-trapped by a Magent Pull Raikou and Offensive Teams just sweep me.
I really think that Magnet Pull together with Cresselia should be instantly banned, as they are way too over centralizing (the last 3 days, not a single Celesteecla WITHOUT Shed Shell encountered me...).
Unfortunately as opposed to previous instalments of Inheritance, I haven't had the time to test and fine tune many teams to actually consider properly laddering, and have used my limited time to simply test off meta and fun/cheesy sets to try and be a little innovative. With that in mind, here has been my favourite set of the month.
Bagon (Latios) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hone Claws
- Dragon Rush
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Blast
This set has honestly been so fun to use, and once I started building around it with heavy support the results were actually quite impressive. The idea is that despite Latios' mediocre 90 Atk stat, the increased power of Sheer Force + Life Orb makes it workable, I mean we've all seen Tauros running special moves. Throw Hone Claws into the mix, and you have +1 Attack with an accurate 100bp SF+LO boosted Dragon STAB alongside accurate and boosted secondary STAB and perfect neutral Mixed coverage. So basically, if you can find the opportunity to Hone Claws, this thing is sick. There are a few things holding this pokemon back, mainly being its over reliance on set up and vulnerability to revenge killers despite a nice speed tier, but with the right support, it can be extremely deadly. Personally I liked it with Psychic Terrain to boost Zen Headbutt and stop priority attackers from revenge killing it. It could also be handy to have a Magnet Pull user capable of removing Flash Fire Steels, and anything to make set up easier such as a Slow Parting Shot or Aurora Veil was also quite handy. But anyway, I'll let the calcs do the rest of the talking.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 351-413 (110 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Dragon Rush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 204-242 (46 - 54.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Dragon Rush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 286-337 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 169-200 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 296-348 (105.3 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Celesteela: 333-393 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Latios Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 76 SpD Buzzwole: 491-580 (117.7 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also note that Latias is a viable option over Latios with the same set. Latias is only marginally weaker and its superior bulk is useful for creating set up opportunities, and it is notably near on guaranteed to survive a Shadow Ball from Mega Alakazam that has Traced Sheer Force, even after Stealth Rock.
Seeing as I'm in a good mood, here's one more set for the road, this one sort of speaks for itself. Remember Stakataka?
Nihilego (Tyranitar) @ Figy Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Trick Room
- Head Smash
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
Inheritance may be not the OM of the month anymore soon, but i still have some shit to throw to the wall:
Chesnaught (Stakataka) @ Rockium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Hammer Arm / Wood Hammer / Drain Punch / Anything else
There're better options out there, but this one gives you things like an inmunity to conmon moves such as Focus Miss, access to SD, STABs on Gyro Ball and Stone Edge, and coverage options on Earthquake, Fighting-Type moves as Hammer Arm or Drain Punch and Grass-type moves on Wood Hammer and Seed Bomb, i guess.
or
Porygon-Z / Mew (Manectric) @ Manectite
Ability: Download / Synchronize
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Fighting / Fire Blast / Aura Sphere
For some reason this guy isn't at the VR and, while it isn't as versatile as Tapu Koko, is faster and has better special Attack. As Ampharos-Mega, this set abuses Porygon-Z/Mew access to both Nasty Plot and BoltBeam, but PZ is chosen in case you want a good pre-mega ability, while Mew gives MMane stronger coverage options.
This Manectric set is just insanely powerful because usual counters to Bolt Beam coverage are in general :
•Ice type Thick Fat (HPower/Aura Sphere destroy it)
•Steel-Electric types also destroyed by Fire/Fight)
Only good Lightning Rodders can counter it
This Manectric set is just insanely powerful because usual counters to Bolt Beam coverage are in general :
•Ice type Thick Fat (HPower/Aura Sphere destroy it)
•Steel-Electric types also destroyed by Fire/Fight)
Only good Lightning Rodders can counter it
Calm down there a little, this set is far from uncheckable. Common Unaware users like Cresselia, any Chansey, and Regenvesters that have the offensive presence to not be setup bait (Goodra!Slowking or however we wrote it works) all check that set well besides the electric immunity abilities (cough cough Celesteela). That's not to say it's not good; Manectric's speed tier is really good and while I haven't tried it the set seems solid, but this set wouldn't break any half competent stall that wasn't massively chipped and it takes the mega slot which is highly competed for in inheritance.
...
Anyway I would also like to bring up Cresselia. It is, imo, far too bulky and defensively versatile to be a healthy presence in the tier, and the single largest contributor to the fact that stall is currently a fairly dominant playstyle. I'm not going to write an essay here, but I would like to see more conversation on it.
I do feel that stall is unhealthily good atm, that it would survive a Cress ban, and that Cress is the problem, and I know some others feel the same way, but I would love to hear others opinions.
Calm down there a little, this set is far from uncheckable. Common Unaware users like Cresselia, any Chansey, and Regenvesters that have the offensive presence to not be setup bait (Goodra!Slowking or however we wrote it works) all check that set well besides the electric immunity abilities (cough cough Celesteela). That's not to say it's not good; Manectric's speed tier is really good and while I haven't tried it the set seems solid, but this set wouldn't break any half competent stall that wasn't massively chipped and it takes the mega slot which is highly competed for in inheritance.
...
Anyway I would also like to bring up Cresselia. It is, imo, far too bulky and defensively versatile to be a healthy presence in the tier, and the single largest contributor to the fact that stall is currently a fairly dominant playstyle. I'm not going to write an essay here, but I would like to see more conversation on it.
I do feel that stall is unhealthily good atm, that it would survive a Cress ban, and that Cress is the problem, and I know some others feel the same way, but I would love to hear others opinions.
The Mega slot is an argument but Manectric has got insane speed (outspeeds Koko) and that's very useful
It is not uncheckable because of Unaware and of Cresselia (but Cress is just the best staller in meta)
Electric immunities like LRod also check it
Bumping to hopefully generate some interest for OMotM ~
First of all I'd like to touch on the two main things that I think many people find are problematic in the current metagame.
Magnet Pull
Magnet Pull avoids being broken in standard play due to its limited distribution on very few Pokemon which either are generally bad (Probopass / Golem-A) or don't trap many Steel-types with great efficiency (Magnezone). This is not the case in Inheritance, Golem-A donates everything a Pokemon needs to quickly KO trapped Steels and can donate to many powerful attackers (usually Fire-types) effectively. This results in effectively every Steel-type in the metagame being forced to run a Shed Shell or risk being quickly eliminated. I (and many others) think this is a very unhealthy metagame dynamic, I don't really think there's much else to be said about Magnet Pull and I very much hope a quickban will be considered.
Cresselia
The other problematic presence in the room is Cresselia, which was noted during Inheritance's last time as OMotM for being an incredibly bulky blanket check to close to 80% of the metagame with its Unaware set. While the Unaware set is massively potent on its own, Cresselia is also exceptionally adaptable and can bypass things that would deal with the conventional Unaware set such as Mold Breaker setup sweepers or Toxic by running sets like Prankster Haze or Magic Bounce. Speaking just in terms of the Unaware set, Cresselia's ability to check huge portions of the metagame gives defensive teams huge amounts of versatility in terms of dealing with the few things that can break it, which enables fatter teams to become fairly dominant. In my opinion, a defensive threat that is able to blanket check such a broad portion of the metagame while also being versatile enough to pick and choose its counters likely meets the definition of a broken defensive Pokemon, so Cresselia should either be suspect tested or quickbanned.
tl;dr quickban Magnet Pull, suspect or quickban Cresselia
Nobody likes talking about broken stuff though, so I thought I'd mention an offensive core I've had a lot of fun building around.
Nidoking (Gengar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
These sets are nothing out of the ordinary, but I enjoy this core for how well they work in tandem to break common blanket checks to special attackers. Gengar inheriting from Nidoking has exceptional coverage and hits very hard against most of the metagame and it has the coverage to hit blanket checks like RegenVest Muk-A or Magearna very hard. Usually that's enough to put these blanket checks in range of Mega Alakazam, which is a potent cleaner against offensive and defensive teams alike once its checks have been softened up.
I really enjoy Inheritance, I think it has a lot of potential as a competitive metagame with high creativity, especially with a few suspects to remove current broken elements. Hopefully this can return to the main server sometime in the future, in the meantime feel free to hit me up on PS if you want to play a game or two ~
Just a set I thought could be interesting. If Zoroark reveals as the donor right away then disregard this. It's a pretty standard Blacephalon set, but it's meant to sneak in with Illusion, set up with Nasty Plot, and sweep. Ghostium Z acts as a nuke to blow past most resisted walls, and Sucker Punch is a nice way to play mind games with the opponent or deal chip before dying. It's pretty good considering Blace has 127 base Atk. 108 Spe is pretty good, but not great, so I can see this on a Webs team. The common Unaware users in this tier are an issue for Blace, especially ones that resist its STAB. For that reason Taunt is another option on this set. Lastly, Blace has terrible bulk and dies to most forms of priority, especially since it's weak to a lot of them.
Feedback is appreciated, especially since I'm new to this OM.
Just a set I thought could be interesting. If Zoroark reveals as the donor right away then disregard this. It's a pretty standard Blacephalon set, but it's meant to sneak in with Illusion, set up with Nasty Plot, and sweep. Ghostium Z acts as a nuke to blow past most resisted walls, and Sucker Punch is a nice way to play mind games with the opponent or deal chip before dying. It's pretty good considering Blace has 127 base Atk. 108 Spe is pretty good, but not great, so I can see this on a Webs team. The common Unaware users in this tier are an issue for Blace, especially ones that resist its STAB. For that reason Taunt is another option on this set. Lastly, Blace has terrible bulk and dies to most forms of priority, especially since it's weak to a lot of them.
Feedback is appreciated, especially since I'm new to this OM.
Zoroark shows up as the donor, unfortunately. Additionally, Blacephalon is banned. Zoroark isn't a bad donor, though: it's got an okay movepool and the surprise factor, albeit watered down a lot.
Hello everyone! So with the recent voting of December's OMoTM, Inheritance has gotten another chance to shine once more and due to nv leave of absence, I will be taking over the project for the upcoming month! I also would like to announce that Pigeons will be joining the council as well.
To start the month off, the council wanted to address a problem thats been plaguing the metagame for a while which we wanted to combat asap before the month begins. So with that being said...
Cresselia will be quickbanned from inheriting!
Due to incredible bulk, a decent defensive typing and a wide variety of inheriting options ranging from Xatu, Swoobat, Clefable, and Sigilyph, Cresselia had been dominating the metagame and put a huge strain on offensive teams trying to find a proper way in breaking through a seemingly unbreakable wall. Its presence highly favored the rise in stall teams last time the meta was OMoTM, and while defensive teams will still be quite strong due to the abundance of defensive options they have, we felt that the removal of Cresselia will help neutralize the situation to some degree. Issues such as Magnet Pull will be considered later on if enough community input is shown.
Also, we are looking for one more additional council member, so leave PMs if you are interested and believe a good candidate.
Enjoy the metagame throughout December! The Immortal
This is arguably my favorite ever meta! Therefor I have fuzzed around in the teambuilder again and I think I made some cool and unique sets. It wouldn't be me if I wouldn't share it, so here we go:
>>>
Starting off with my favorite set. Riolu has this one thing everyone in BW hated. And that's the combination of Prankster and Copycat. Riolu has a great movepool and this combination seemed like it could work well with Doublade and his poor speed. Riolu has boosting moves and dual stab that Doublade can make great use out of. Its dual stab is fantastic coverage and hits most pokemon for neutral damage.
Another powerhouse was this combination. The Adaptability from Dragalge can overwrite Keldeo's pointless ability anytime and give it an extreme boost to its offensive presence. I doubt anything wants to take a STAB Adaptability move from Keldeo, especially when you realize Dragalge has access to Hydro Pump as well as Focus Blast and Thunderbolt for coverage. Last move was difficult, but i went with Toxic Spikes as I feel like that could be useful.
Very experimental with this one, but I feel like it could be somewhat useful. A sweeper Garchomp that takes moves and ability from Alolan Exeggutor. The old Garchomp set I made was Mold Breaker Taunt Rocks but I think this is more fun to use, despite the other likely being more effective in its role.
Druddigon, Druddigon... People always overlook you but in this meta you really shine. You have great abilities and a underestimated movepool. You work well for many Pokémon and you have a special place in my heart. What you offer Greninja is pretty nice for it. The only thing it really lacks is a more powerful Water type STAB move, but I guess Surf could suffice. Now also giving it coverage for Fairy types which could be substituted by Gunk Shot if you'd prefer a mixed set. But I think this works well enough. Another option was to make Greninja inherit from Crawdaunt, which would provide it with Adaptability. Decided against it because I feel like Crawdaunt gets used a lot in this.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb
>>>
Yay! More Sheer Force! This time taking advantage of Mawile and it's solid movepool. Inheriting to a Pokémon that's primarily seen as a special attacker in regular Smogon formats. Mawile provides Tapu Koko with a plethora of viable moves including dual stab and Ice Punch for coverage. Mawile even has the ability to give Tapu Koko priority and setup. An overall great donor Pokémon.
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
>>>
Drampa, another Pokémon with a phenomenal movepool and abilities. Being able to provide Thundurus with dual STAB and Ice Beam for coverage seemed appealing to me. Picked Roost as last move but Calm Mind or Energy Ball / Grass Knot could also grants some useful coverage or sweeping potential.
Here we go again. It's no secret that stall is an incredibly good playstyle right now, and speaking personally I'd say it's the best by a considerable margin. Cresselia was previously identified as an issue and deservingly quickbanned for its overwhelming defensive presence, but the loss of one of its best blanket checks didn't prove to be as much of a nerf to stall as was previously hoped. Speaking both as a council member and as a player, something definitely needs to be done to address stall. While stall being dominant isn't itself a bad thing, it's shown to have a consistently disproportionate influence on the metagame relative to other playstyles. I'd say two of the biggest reasons stall has managed to stay this good are that defensive mons are much easier to optimize than offensive ones, and that donor reveal greatly benefits reactive play. Obviously both of those things are resulting from the mechanics of the metagame and can't be changed, so I'm hoping to generate some discussion on what elements of stall may represent broken defensive aspects of the metagame. To do that, I'm going to outline the standard stall archetype that's used in Inheritance by myself and many others, provide an example team and then propose some possible options the council could take to rebalance stall to the point where it is no longer so overcentralizing.
The Winning Formula
Like any playstyle, stall does have the potential to be highly varied and diverse. That said, this particular stall structure has been shown to be incredibly consistent in high ladder play and roomtours and has been used extensively by myself and many others. Without further ado, here is the general strategy and required elements for building a successful stall team in Inheritance.
1. Mega Sableye
Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Foul Play / Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / Heal Bell / Will-O-Wisp
- Soft-Boiled
- Protect
Mega Sableye is one of the Pokemon I feel is absolutely necessary on a successful stall. Firstly, it is one of two Pokemon (the other being Spiritomb) that can actually defensively check Mega Medicham on stall. It can also act as a backup check to many other physical attackers thanks to its impressive bulk. The other reason why Mega Sableye is so mandatory is that it offers amazing role compression. Magic Bounce is incredibly valuable for stall, and because the ability is gained post-mega evolution it can afford to run another utility move in its 4th moveslot by inheriting from Mew, which frees up room elsewhere on the stall team. Mega Sableye is needed to not auto-lose to Mega Medicham, but the additional role compression it offers make it an essential for stall.
Celesteela @ Shed Shell
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog
Unaware is pretty mandatory on any non-hyper offensive team in Inheritance so naturally it is a must include on stall as well. The purpose of this slot is not to check any one threat in particular, but to beat as wide a portion as possible of the metagame, particularly setup users. This slot is where Cresselia used to fit, but now is most commonly occupied by Suicune. Celesteela is a viable option as well due to its immense bulk and great resistances, but Magnet Pull makes it a less consistent option. Both of these Pokemon can act as Defog users, but Suicune generally prefers to have access to Scald. There's not much else to say about this slot because it's pretty self-explanatory, but the importance of this slot can't be overstated, checking broad portions of the metagame allows stall to tailor the remaining members to beating the few things that can break through its blanket checks, which is a huge contributor to stall being so powerful.
Everyone's favourite blob and a longtime staple of stall teams, Chansey is also a Pokemon I'd consider a requirement on a stall team. Chansey's role is obvious enough: to check almost every special attacker in the tier. It does that extremely well, even formidable breakers like Choice Specs Chandelure inheriting from Torkoal can't get past it, while Prankster Haze makes boosting past it impossible. Inheriting Unaware from Clefable is also an option on stall which gives Chansey Heal Bell or Stealth Rock utility, but being forced to rely on Wish for recovery and a lack of Seismic Toss / Night Shade makes it less ideal in most cases.
While a fat Unaware Pokemon can deal with a good portion of physical attackers, Mold Breaker Swords Dance sweepers and especially powerful Choice Band breakers can get through. The purpose of this slot is to deal with those threats, usually mitigating their offensive power via Intimidate to bypass Mold Breaker. Both Buzzwole and Hippowdon have the physical bulk to take on breakers like Garchomp inheriting from Haxorus and Choice Band Terrakion inheriting from Tyrantrum, cycling the Intimidate user in and out also helps against slower boosting sweepers like Poison Heal Curse Snorlax. This slot allows stall to handle common ways of bypassing its Unaware blanket check, which further reduces its counterplay.
5. Motor Drive Toxapex
Toxapex @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Toxic / U-turn / Nuzzle
- Roost
- Defog
While calling Motor Drive Toxapex a necessity may seem like a stretch to some, I firmly believe this set greatly elevate's stall's potency. By virtue of its great typing, bulk and new immunity to Electric attacks, Toxapex is able to check some of the biggest threats to stall like Keldeo, V-Create Fire-types and mixed Protean attackers. All the aftermentioned threats cause huge issues for stall teams, and this Toxapex set is able to successfully check them all. Inheriting from Emolga gives Toxapex instant recovery in Roost but also the ever-useful Defog. Other checks to mixed Protean attackers are few and far between, the fact that Motor Drive Toxapex covers those in addition to several other huge threats make its inclusion on a successful stall obligatory.
or
6. Regenerator Pivot
Magearna @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
or
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- U-turn
- Fake Out / Fire Punch
The last slot on a typical stall team is typically dedicated to a Regenerator Pokemon that fills in some defensive gaps in the team, but also ensures that games against opposing stall teams (or very fat balances) will end in a tie most of the time. Magearna and Alolan Muk both cover Mega Alakazam inheriting from Tapu Lele and can pivot into a wide range of special attackers in a pinch. Magearna provides Wish and Heal Bell support which are quite useful, while Alolan Muk is generally better at pivoting into special attackers (especially if Chansey has gone down) and helps a lot with Sheer Force Gengar inheriting from Nidoqueen. Regenerator makes it much harder to wear down a stall team and also means it can't be beaten by opposing Regenerator cores.
A Sample Stall
Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Foul Play
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Protect
Toxapex @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog
Magearna @ Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
This is the stall I built and have been laddering with since the Cresselia ban. The core of Unaware Suicune, Chansey and Buzzwole is sufficient for handling most of the offensive metagame, the remaining members fill in defensive gaps while providing utility and support. This version only has one Defog user, but Suicune can be changed to run the move instead of Haze (though this requires replacing Scald with Knock Off). This team is very consistent all-around and has a fantastic matchup against offense, against fatter teams it's a little harder but with Regenerator Magearna it's easy enough to tie, just play very conservatively with the pp of your recovery moves and Heal Bell.
This team follows the above teambuilding formula and its performance on ladder shows just how dominant it can be (peaked at #1 with 94.5% GXE, has not dropped from the #1 spot since ladder went up). I'm not exaggerating when I say I have not lost to offense with this team, all my losses have been against bulkier teams that were able to wear the team down. This sort of highlights how ridiculously centralizing stall is, it's insanely difficult for offense to break this without resorting to incredibly niche sets. This isn't a very healthy metagame dynamic, you shouldn't be forced into either running a certain playstyle or subpar sets just to have a fighting chance against stall. With that in mind, here are some of the actions I've seen people propose to help balance stall. I don't think all of these are great options, just ones I've seen mentioned on PS that I'm hoping to see more discussion on. Keep in mid we don't want to ban something purely for the purposes of nerfing stall that isn't otherwise broken, there should be sufficient reasoning why the element in question is unhealthy for the metagame as a whole.
What Can We Do?
Ban Murkrow as a donor:
This is one option I've seen discussed, with the reasoning that it would allow Mold Breaker sweepers to more effectively pressure stall without being overwhelming, as currently Prankster Haze invalidates a lot of them. Personally I'm not sure this would nerf stall that effectively, I'm also not sure Murkrow is that broken a donor on its own. That said this is one of the better options in my eyes.
Ban Unaware:
Another option I've heard is that Unaware should be banned or suspected, because it allows stall to so effectively check setup, often in one slot. Losing Unaware would definitely be a huge blow to stall and would reduce its viability for sure, but I think Unaware is a healthy element of the metagame that keeps the plethora of setup sweepers in the meta in check. Unaware is also very important for balances and bulky offenses. That said if people think this needs a suspect I will keep my mind open.
Ban Regenerator:
The people I've talked to who mentioned a Regenerator ban emphasized that Regenerator mirrors are an unhealthy dynamic in the metagame, and that banning Regenerator would make stall easier to wear down. While I agree Regenerator mirror matchups suck and might be unhealthy for the meta, I think banning Regenerator would have little effect stall's viability. For me, the main reason I have Regenerator on my stall team is to not lose to other Regenerator teams, and I'd be fine without it in case of a Regenerator ban. This also eliminates healthy blanket checks on bulky offense like RegenVest Alolan Muk.
Unban Hoopa-U (or another offensive Pokemon):
Some people I've talked to think that rather than banning an element of stall, we should give offense more tools to break it. Again, I don't particularly like this option because the offensive Pokemon on the banlist were banned for being broken, and "broken checks broken" isn't a very healthy dynamic in the metagame.
In Conclusion:
In its current state, stall is incredibly dominating to the point of overcentraliziation in my opinion. The above list of solutions is not exhaustive, I'd love to hear other ways people think we can approach this issue. I hope my outline of stall helps people build their own stall teams, there's lots of combinations other than the ones I listed, get out there and experiment! I realize a meta dominated by stall isn't as fun for some people, but know that the council is working as hard as possible to try and fix this issue, but to do that we do need input from people! Like I said, I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts on stall as a whole and how to deal with it.
