Metagame Inverse [Leader’s Choice]

#26

Drampa seems like a cool mon, its weaknesses are now very uncommon, the grass weakness may be a dealbreaker, but then you realize this thing gets Sap Sipper, leaving it with a total of 4 resistances and 3 uncommonish weaknesses. As for the offensive side, Normal is broken, so yeah.

Drampa (M) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Hyper Voice
- Defog

Mono attacking CM could work because, again, normal is broken and it doesn't really need any coverage aside from Hyper Voice. Could be also very fun on TR.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
Moderator
#27
We've decided to go ahead with the double ban of Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu. After some more experience with both in the meta and some games, and feedback in the thread from Yung Dramps and some other players, they've been catapulted into the banlist.

The banlist looks a little more stable now so it'd be great to start submitting sample teams if you have any, even if they're old! We can try updating them in this thread too.
 
#28
here's the ub speculation that never was

Holy crap, a good offensive Poison type! Its typing is great for attacking and defending, and its stats complement its role super well. It has great coverage in Sludge Wave + Power Gem, and has entry hazards like Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, in addition to a few bits of additional coverage. Don't forget Beast Boost! Projected Ranking: A- or A


Not too hot. Gains more weaknesses than it loses, and its offensive coverage is eh, especially with that low speed. Projected Ranking: C- or D+


This is currently banned, but I don't see it getting unbanned, as it still is Pheromosa at the end of the day, outspeeding most mons in the tier and hitting super hard on both ends.


Could be decent if Koko didn't exist. Projected Ranking: C


Borderline unusable. Projected Ranking: D- or Unranked


Just got banned, nothing to say really.


Nah, not feeling it. It gains more weaknesses than it loses, and its new weakness (like Grass) are all common. Projected Ranking: Unranked


awful lol


Currently banned, and I don't think it should be unbanned, since it still has the same overcentralizing qualities as vanilla Naganadel while still hitting tons of things with Poison + Dragon + Fire coverage.


Losing those 4x weaknesses seems great at first, but then you realize it gains way more, including a 4x
weakness to the omnipresent Normal. It also gets walled to hell and back by Avalugg. Projected Ranking: D or D+


Overall viability hasn't changed much. Sub + CM could see some play for being able to basically 1v1 ChanLugg if Avalugg lacks Roar. Getting walled by Celebi does suck, however. Projected Ranking: C+ or B-

Overall, Nihilego seems to be the one really good but no broken UB out of the bunch. Everything else is either mediocre or broken. Then again, these are all just predictions based on my faint knowledge of this metagame, so I could be completely wrong with all these.



Necrozma seems really nice, especially now that Lele is gone and it has less competition. This mon has the stats and bulk to do basically anything, whether it's being a Rocks setter, a sweeper or a Choice user.


6 resistances with Drain Punch, high Attack and a STAB combo that is still really good. Picture this as a frailer, but way stronger Avalugg.


This Pokemon now has way more useful resistances, and it can actually maybe make use of Water Compaction for once. All-around decent Rocks setter and wall.


Probably a very niche pick, but I could see this being used by some teams as a mini-Serperior that actually does slightly better vs bulkier builds due to higher SpA.
 
#29
Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Iron Defense

how are you even supposed to beat this lmao, higher bulk than P2 with way more power, could be a devastating late-game cleaner
 

OM room

You lost the game
#32
Don't inverse battles just become centered around normal, ghost, and psychic?
No, as those are decently easy to counter.

As with every metagame everything plays a role and normal / ghost / psychic aren't the strongest offensive types, especially when they can't exactly hit a lot for super effective damage.
 
#35
Grass and Bug become the premiere attacking types, hitting 7 types SE.

Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast

The typical SubSwarm set becomes deadly when only Grass/Psychic/Dark resist it. Fire Blast gives stab coverage letting you hit everything hard except grass types. 4x stealth rock resistance, watch out for those mach/bullet punches if you're outside of a sub though.

Pure grass types can be hit for only 1/2 dmg at best, though if you're at +1 with Swarm up most things get blown away by Savage Spinout anyways.
 
#36

Golisopod @ Insect Plate
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Spikes
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life

I've been having a boatload of fun with this Pokemon on the new ladder. First Impression hits a ton of Pokemon for super-effective or neutral damage, acts as a solid offense answer (rip Volcarona) and just generally punches holes. Spikes can be set up on expected Avalugg switch-ins, and just a safe move to throw out. Aqua jet is secondary priority, does an ok amount to Cloyster (around 30%). Leech Life is consistent, powerful STAB. The speed creeps Chansey so you can Leech Life before it moves for huge recovery.
 
#37
Just some notes and comments about the tier


After actually playtesting Type: Null, I can confirm that it's dangerous, seriously underprepped for atm, conventional P2 checks just don't work against it at all since it'll blow right through them with SD RestTalk shit, watch out for this guy and/or use it


Electric STAB as a whole is also underprepped for, Koko blows through most teams right now since nobody really sees it coming, Grass types loathe this guy too, honorable mention goes to Raichu-Alola, that mon is a bitch too


Lurantis is dogshit, slow as piss, frail as piss, if/when a VR is made, make a Do Not Use rank and put Lurantis in it


Necrozma-Dusk-Mane unban when
 
#39

Swellow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn
- Facade
- Brave Bird

Just a theorymon set. Running Guts instead of Scrappy bc Scrappy is useless in this meta. Facade and Brave Bird are just to appreciate the possible Guts boost, but in all other situations you should be clicking Boomburst.

idk if this is good, if you use it lmk i guess

edit: oh I kinda forgot chansey exists, it's pretty much walled by it unless Guts boosted Facade but otherwise, idk
 
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#40

Swellow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn
- Facade
- Brave Bird

Just a theorymon set. Running Guts instead of Scrappy bc Scrappy is useless in this meta. Facade and Brave Bird are just to appreciate the possible Guts boost, but in all other situations you should be clicking Boomburst.

idk if this is good, if you use it lmk i guess

edit: oh I kinda forgot chansey exists, it's pretty much walled by it unless Guts boosted Facade but otherwise, idk
Facade feels unneeded and borderline useless for swellow in this set, as a specs boomburst would do MUCH more, even against specially defensive mons such as sylveon, and wouldn't even ohko nihilego without a burn boost.
I'd say just stick with the basic specs set or use the flame orb facade set, facade and brave bird just don't stand much ground compared to the coverage supported by heat wave.
Nice brainstorming though!
 
#41

Golisopod @ Insect Plate
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Spikes
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life

I've been having a boatload of fun with this Pokemon on the new ladder. First Impression hits a ton of Pokemon for super-effective or neutral damage, acts as a solid offense answer (rip Volcarona) and just generally punches holes. Spikes can be set up on expected Avalugg switch-ins, and just a safe move to throw out. Aqua jet is secondary priority, does an ok amount to Cloyster (around 30%). Leech Life is consistent, powerful STAB. The speed creeps Chansey so you can Leech Life before it moves for huge recovery.
When I saw this set one thing bugged me and I realised it was that Avalugg gets rapid spin so setting spikes on it is going to be fruitless especially when you do so little to pressure it and you can't even spin block in this meta.
The solution to this (credit to fardin for suggesting) is to run toxic somewhere so avalugg can't stay in and keep rapid spinning, but all of the moves there are clearly doing something so I'm not sure what could be replaced. Either that or wait and hope that the standard avalugg set doesn't run spin.
 
#42
When I saw this set one thing bugged me and I realised it was that Avalugg gets rapid spin so setting spikes on it is going to be fruitless especially when you do so little to pressure it and you can't even spin block in this meta.
The solution to this (credit to fardin for suggesting) is to run toxic somewhere so avalugg can't stay in and keep rapid spinning, but all of the moves there are clearly doing something so I'm not sure what could be replaced. Either that or wait and hope that the standard avalugg set doesn't run spin.
To be fair, even if Avalugg does spin on your spikes that enables a safe switch on that spin. Toxic is a good alternative but spikes isn’t completely useless, you can also spike on pokes like Chansey which toxic would be a dead weight against.
 
#44
Now that Shaymin gets celebrate...



Shaymin @ Normalium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Poison]
- Leech Seed / Synthesis / Psychic / Giga Drain

Z-celebrate raises all stats by 1 stage each, potentially allowing Shaymin to sweep teams late-game; however, opposing fast scarfers need to be removed first, as well as walls.

HP Poison is needed to hit ground and rock types. The last slot is mostly up to you: Leech Seed annoys walls like chansey; Synthesis provides reliable recovery and makes good use of Shaymin's decent bulk when at +1; Psychic hits tyranitar and greninja, but isn't that useful otherwise; and Giga Drain is a stab that can't miss and provides some recovery.

Warning: even at +1, Shaymin can still be too weak to sweep bulkier teams, so time the z-move carefully. Also don't blame me if seed flare misses, I've lost games because of that :(

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 156-184 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 9.6% chance to 4HKO

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Avalugg: 424-501 (107.6 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 226-267 (49 - 57.9%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 162-191 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Hidden Power Poison vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 
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OM room

You lost the game
#45
Now that Shaymin gets celebrate...



Shaymin @ Normalium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Poison]
- Leech Seed / Synthesis / Psychic / Giga Drain

Z-celebrate raises all stats by 1 stage each, potentially allowing Shaymin to sweep teams late-game; however, opposing fast scarfers need to be removed first, as well as walls.

HP Poison is needed to hit ground and rock types. The last slot is mostly up to you: Leech Seed annoys walls like chansey; Synthesis provides reliable recovery and makes good use of Shaymin's decent bulk when at +1; Psychic hits tyranitar and greninja, but isn't that useful otherwise; and Giga Drain is a stab that can't miss and provides some recovery.

Warning: even at +1, Shaymin can still be too weak to sweep bulkier teams, so time the z-move carefully. Also don't blame me if seed flare misses, I've lost games because of that :(

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 156-184 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 9.6% chance to 4HKO

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Avalugg: 424-501 (107.6 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 226-267 (49 - 57.9%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 162-191 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Shaymin Hidden Power Poison vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Personally I think Psychic is better than Hidden Power Poison, just because the only super relevant ground types are mamoswine / hippowdon / gliscor
 

G-Luke

We Eat Losers
is a Pre-Contributor
#46
Some really cool mons that lack mention and deserve discussion.


Echoing Yung Dramps statements about this mon. Tapu Koko is a spectacular mon in a meat where no viable Electric immunities exist and switchins for its Thunderbolt are not common. Its high speed allows it to revenge kill alot of threats in the meta, and it loves the potency of Grass types atm.


This thing is amazing. Protean Greninja is one of the few mons that can handle the dreaded Chanslugg core thanks to Taunt + Ice Beam. a set of Gunk Shot, Ice Beam, Grass Knot and filler handles most threats.


Celebi's horrendous typing is now its strongest feature in Inverse, with 7 resistances. It can run a very wide variety of sets from NP to SR setter to Defensive to Specs, all with different means to beat them.


SR weakness and a redundant ability doesn't hold back this monster, as Mega Lopunny just rips apart teams that are not prepared for it, and still shits on ones that are.
 
#47
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No talk of one of the unbanned mons, so guess I'll be the one to do it. Giratina-O has an arguably bad typing, and it's pretty slow, leaving it open to be RK'd by faster mons, but these are really as far as it's downsides come. With a massive movepool, beyond amazing bulk that can even tank SE hits, and offenses that blow through teams with relative ease, this is one hell of a pokemon to have in Inverse. A fully physical set can be utilized to max out Shadow Sneak's damage, letting you rip through offensive teams, while Shadow Force punches holes in any bulky mons while letting you dodge things like Toxic and Leech Seed, plus it lets you break through a possible Protect. Mixed is arguably the best due to the wide movepool, and the balanced offensive stats supplement that, though which side is better, physical or special, I can't decide. There's also the set from Ubers which still functions relatively well, as Wisp can cripple offensive threats like the ever-potent Mega Beedrill, and let Hex unsurprisingly beat a wall to a pulp. I'd honestly be surprised if this thing wasn't A/A+.
 
#48
I'm ragequitting inverse for a few days, I'll come back later and build a new team maybe. In the meantime, here's a good set I used:

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Destiny Bond
- Trick / some coverage move

With a scarf, Gengar can reliably revenge kill pretty much anything that lacks priority. It can take m-beedrill by surprise and kill it with sludge wave. It also deals with setup sweepers, revenging +1 quiver dance Volcarona and shell smash Cloyster (525 > 524, but watch out for ice shard).
Destiny Bond is to trade, when the opponent has a setup sweeper unable to be taken down in any other way. Trick cripples walls like Chansey but doesn't do much else; also be careful of using trick too early if there are opposing fast pokemon that need to be revenge killed.

btw the Z-Celebrate Shaymin set that I posted last time is really bad, especially with greninja and koko gaining popularity. Don't use it. There are many better z-move users and grass types out there.
 
#49
If nobody is going to really start on a VR list, I might want to try and help out in starting one (Even if I'm not really a relevant person)
I would be interested in helping in that endeavor, I am also a unrelevant player, but I have been playing since day one and have tried to remain top 30 on ladder. Also, if a we make a super bad VR list, all the good players will freak out and correct it, and then we have a good one! YAY!
 
#50
Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 48 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt / Coverage
- Work Up

Koko is really strong. This is by far my favorite set, as it can deal with ChanLugg core easily. It is a weird set, but can really surprise people and lead to easy wins with other mons.
 

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