Lifestyle Investing and Money Managing

I've recently got myself to a point in my life where I have been looking to do more with some of my personal savings outside of just putting it into the bank and having it accrue the piddly fraction percent interest that is being offered.

I've been looking into getting involved in day trading, and ran some simulations this last year with fake money on Market Watch to some success. I recently put a very small amount of money into a day trading account, but don't feel educated to do too much with it yet.

I've also recently been looking into different types of safer short term and long term investments such as CDs, Bonds, or Dividend Stocks to continue to grow my savings, but I haven't really been too enthused.

My parents have never been too financially minded, and all of my friends and work colleagues are not even close to being able to put money into a savings account much less into investments, so I've never really had much of an opportunity to learn what all to do at this point in my life outside having a basic understanding of personal finance.

I'm obviously not looking for anyone to offer expert financial advice, but I figure there have to be a number of people on here that are at the same point as me and would be willing to share/discuss some basic strategies or to share a few helpful learning resources, tools, or tips.
 

Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
I've recently got myself to a point in my life where I have been looking to do more with some of my personal savings outside of just putting it into the bank and having it accrue the piddly fraction percent interest that is being offered.

I've been looking into getting involved in day trading, and ran some simulations this last year with fake money on Market Watch to some success. I recently put a very small amount of money into a day trading account, but don't feel educated to do too much with it yet.

I've also recently been looking into different types of safer short term and long term investments such as CDs, Bonds, or Dividend Stocks to continue to grow my savings, but I haven't really been too enthused.

My parents have never been too financially minded, and all of my friends and work colleagues are not even close to being able to put money into a savings account much less into investments, so I've never really had much of an opportunity to learn what all to do at this point in my life outside having a basic understanding of personal finance.

I'm obviously not looking for anyone to offer expert financial advice, but I figure there have to be a number of people on here that are at the same point as me and would be willing to share/discuss some basic strategies or to share a few helpful learning resources, tools, or tips.

Never invest what you arnt willing to lose. NEVER EVER bet the farm. Speculation trading is no diffrent from gambling. Buy low sell high. If you need an accountant PM me.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
1) If you have a job that has a pension scheme where they match your contributions, contribute as much as you can
2) Always keep an emergency fund
3) Investing into a bunch of index funds is a good and reasonably safe investment that still puts you above inflation
4) Never put all your eggs in one basket

Treat day trading as a combination of gambling and fortune telling. If you're having fun doing it, treat it as a hobby and budget for it accordingly, but it's not a safe place to put all your money.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I personally don't buy stocks, because where I'm from, they'd require you to open a new bank account solely for stocks, and they'd deduct some money every month if you don't buy new stocks.

I mainly resell collectibles. Mainly Pokemon cards and Blythe dolls.
I would only buy items that I don't mind keeping for long periods of time.
 
Dont waste any money you arent willing to lose day trading because you will lose it. Playing pretend markets and real markets are two different things.

Index fund in theory sounds great, make what the market makes over time, 10% over long term, bla bla. This is only useful if you have a huge sum to invest with or if you have a small amount and figured out how to live for 10,000 years then you will amass a good amt.

My advice: use your extra money to invest in YOURSELF. Learn something new, or better yet learn and practice something so much that you become a specialist at it. That is when you will get real ideas and a sense of what is going on in that market, whatever it may be.

Once you become specialized at something that's when you will see real opportunities to make real money. In the meantime save up your cash, because chances are, whatever it is that you have is too small to be playing stock markets. 50k is baby money. Save your cash for when the time is right to strike on a business venture or cash producing asset.

Stock market is a fools game and should not be done with any other mindset beside it being a fun hobby, unless you want to devout your self to it then of course everything is possible.

TLDR: You should specialize in something that can make money, figure out what your goal is, and work backwards to see how long it would take to achieve that goal. Always think to yourself, how do I double my money? How do I do it twice? Where does that put me? Fuck 10% dude. Save your cash and invest in yourself.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Index funds definitely aren't the right way to go if you want to make money, sure, but they at least stop your savings from losing value every year from inflation. If you've earned a chunk of money from working for a few years and don't expect to need to use it for anything for a while, putting it into something like index funds is fine.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Finance major hi

Investing=good
Day trading=bad

You simply do not have the capital to make any kind of meaningful profit on trading at the scale you will be to make day trading viable, any and all profit you make (if any) will be immediately cannibalized by transaction fees. Fees that will further exacerbate any losses you incur.

Find a portfolio structure that fits your time horizon (at our age bracket that means minimal cash instruments, and a relatively aggressive relationship with risk) and put the money into funds that mirror that risk portfolio.


As a personal advice given our interests, your rates of returns are almost definitely going to be higher if you invest your energies into algorithms for daily fantasy sports cash games.
 
Ah the pursuit of more money, something I definitely have experience in lol. I will talk about day trading or active trading since that is the riskiest option. Sadly, many go into this unprepared with huge sums of money in hopes of profiting.

I am not sure you know the extent of what you are getting yourself into and how much trading knowledge you have. In order to day trade, you need to have an active balance of 25K otherwise the number of day trades you can do will be limited. You will also have to trade on margin in order to prevent money being tied up from trade settlements. This in of itself is risky because margin is basically a loan and many go underwater because of margin calls if they are terrible traders. Depending on how much money we are talking about you might not even qualify. I would say you need a minimum of 50k to make it worthwhile. If you want to just occasionally make some trades that's another story. You can go into that with less money and no margin. A lot will depend on what is the period of time between buying and selling for you.

Assuming you qualify and active trading is something you are interested in, there is a lot to learn. You have to study technical indicators, reading the tape/candles/charts, looking at history and overall market conditions. If you have no idea what the morning star doji, SMA 200, or falling wedge pattern is, and the theory behind all of those, you have a lot of studying to do. For most people that want to get an idea how to trade, I would suggest checking some youtube videos (surprisingly good) to learn the fundamentals of trading and paper trade while applying what you learned. I do not mean only buying some Apple and seeing the stock price is up after two weeks and considering that a success, or just grabbing some analyst picks. I mean following the intraday/daily/weekly price action and understanding why the price went up and down and the precursors for it.

There's a reason why hedge funds wouldn't accept a challenge by Warren Buffet to see if they can beat an index fund in the long run. One hedge fund did and got crushed by Buffet’s index fund. It’s high risk, most will fail, and risk only what you are willing to risk. That’s why you leave your retirement money alone and let it ride the market. I am trying to stress this is an enormous task from personal experience and should not be taken lightly. Too many people are gambling and not putting in the time required, but smart individuals rig the trades in their favor. I love it because it’s a transfer of wealth from the dumb to the intelligent traders, however it took some time before things clicked for me.

Good luck with whatever you decide on : )
 

Hipmonlee

Have a nice day
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Here's my cynical take on the stock market.

It mostly exists as a system of taking money from wage earners and distributing that amongst the wealthy.

Here's the premise:
Companies do not exist to create value for shareholders.
The board of directors of a company has no legal obligation to the shareholders of that company. Their only obligations to shareholders come from the fact that the shareholders can have them removed from their position on the board. So the motivating factor for the board of directors is to be just good enough to keep the shareholders off their backs, and then to limit their exposure to legal risks, mostly by shoveling money into privately owned accounting firms.
And the CEO may or may not be part of the board of directors, and they have no obligation to maximise return on shares either. They just want to achieve KPIs and maximise their bonuses.

So then over time practices evolve except in this case the survival of the fittest means the survival of the most beneficial to the most powerful (IE not wage earners). Any practice that takes money from regular shareholders and puts it into the hands of private wealth will become more popular. This is good for the board members, its good for the CEO and it is good for the most powerful shareholders too. You get things like the current venture capital situation where private wealth funds shitty start ups confident that they will be able to sell that to a publicly traded company provided the start up meets a standard of plausible defensibility. And by doing so transferring money from any wage earners who own shares in that company into the hands of people with large enough private fortunes to get into VC (or funds, which then extract the money through fees).

What's that mean in practice?
Go with index funds. It's very unlikely you will be able to do anything to predict the growth of a publicly traded company because even if the market conditions are ideal for it to grow, there isnt necessarily any reason to expect that that growth will actually reach the shareholders of the company.

Also bear in mind that I'm a musician, not an economist. I just like arguing on the internet.
 

Ohmachi

Sun✡Head
Here's my cynical take on the stock market.

It mostly exists as a system of taking money from wage earners and distributing that amongst the wealthy.

Here's the premise:
Companies do not exist to create value for shareholders.
The board of directors of a company has no legal obligation to the shareholders of that company. Their only obligations to shareholders come from the fact that the shareholders can have them removed from their position on the board. So the motivating factor for the board of directors is to be just good enough to keep the shareholders off their backs, and then to limit their exposure to legal risks, mostly by shoveling money into privately owned accounting firms.
And the CEO may or may not be part of the board of directors, and they have no obligation to maximise return on shares either. They just want to achieve KPIs and maximise their bonuses.

So then over time practices evolve except in this case the survival of the fittest means the survival of the most beneficial to the most powerful (IE not wage earners). Any practice that takes money from regular shareholders and puts it into the hands of private wealth will become more popular. This is good for the board members, its good for the CEO and it is good for the most powerful shareholders too. You get things like the current venture capital situation where private wealth funds shitty start ups confident that they will be able to sell that to a publicly traded company provided the start up meets a standard of plausible defensibility. And by doing so transferring money from any wage earners who own shares in that company into the hands of people with large enough private fortunes to get into VC (or funds, which then extract the money through fees).

What's that mean in practice?
Go with index funds. It's very unlikely you will be able to do anything to predict the growth of a publicly traded company because even if the market conditions are ideal for it to grow, there isnt necessarily any reason to expect that that growth will actually reach the shareholders of the company.

Also bear in mind that I'm a musician, not an economist. I just like arguing on the internet.
This post buisness law triggered me. The kind of thing you just discribed would get you sued hard. There are ways for minority shareholders to sue their company to make more money. It dosn't happen often because your suing your own buisness for not making enough money.... more or less. But there are legal protections against this.
 

Hipmonlee

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Do the legal protections work? Cause I am just describing what I have seen. Also its possible the law is different in New Zealand.

And to clarify---I am not trying to suggest that this is a grand conspiracy either. I am just saying that in practice people will follow the behaviours that benefit the powerful. And in the stock market the end result of that is that money is taken from the public and given to the wealthy.

So here's a pokemon tip: always predict your opponent to make the least embarrassing move. And in business, the least embarrassing move is the one that is good for the rich guys.
 
That is a very pessimistic view of the market. There is quite a bit of skirting the line of legality and selfishness but does it matter in the grand scheme of things? No, rarely do those issues make any impact in the market. Especially not to the point of having to invest in an index. This is under the assumption you are investing in proven companies. If you invest in penny stocks and other microcap trash it is very likely your money will be used as an ATM under sketchy management. There are checks and balances so you can only get away with so much before you anger the big institutional investors and regulators. That said you should always diversify to some extent when it comes to stocks.

To the OP, in the end it comes down to what you want to do with the money. What level of liquidity? What level of risk/returns? Is this your only savings (do you have other retirement accounts)? How much time to put in? Ask yourself the bigger questions first and then zoom in on the right fit. You are looking at all these options and do not know where to begin basically. You may be trying to find a right answer to those questions here but what works for me might not work for you. What I notice about my peers though is that most will either reduce a lot of dead money by contributing more to their retirement accounts or they like to passively invest in some stocks/index to have the money more readily available outside of their retirement account. Maybe that will serve as some guidance, but a lot will come down to your preferences.
 
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I have the same idea for day trading till I realized how much of a speculating situation it can become. Everything that seems to work one-day ends up not working after a few weeks or even after a few days. Please. Surly mean that you have play from trading but if you want to make real money it's a hard way to do it! Trust me I get the fact that you're thinking if everyone else can do it then why can't I? Fact is you're missing the big information from Banks, and fact is there are much easier ways to make money online! Just think of how many best side hustles exist and how you can benefit from it, and you will see that making money online is a piece of cake!
 
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My intro and guide for getting into investing:

Since I'm really bored after work today (lockdown, and Canadian winter), I wanted to revive this thread with some of my advice for those looking to get into the stock market, since it can definitely seem intimidating at first glance. I'll go over a number of things in this post since, but will focus on how to evaluate a stock or exchange traded fund (ETF), how to diversify your portfolio, and some recommendations for long-term and relatively low-risk growth, and some common FAQs or "do's and don'ts." I will not cover options or day trading, since those are too risky and not recommended for someone just starting out. Also, keep in mind that I'm not a genius financial expert, just some random guy on the internet who likes investing. Do your own research and do not take everything I say at face value.


1. Pick a simple trading platform with low brokerage fees:

I personally use Wealthsimple, since it holds your hand throughout the process of creating your account, and is definitely the most newbie friendly (minimalist interface which is easy to understand, lots of explanations). You are going to want to setup a trade account with Wealthsimple, since the "Invest & Cash" account just puts your money into a externally managed portfolio depending on your risk tolerance. Look to see what options you have depending on where you live (if you are Canadian, setup a TFSA, and calculate your contribution limit aka how much you can put in before you get taxed here: https://www.moneysense.ca/save/investing/tfsa-contribution-room-calculator/). Trading fees refer to some combination of trade commissions (fee per trade), maintenance fee (cost to maintain your account), and account service fees (cost to withdraw money from your account), and other fees (broker dependent).

However, do your research and read up on other accessible trading platforms (notably Robinhood if you live in the US).


2. What is an ETF? How is it different from a stock?

An ETF is basically a "fruit basket" of different stocks lumped together in one category/theme. Each ETF is broken down into a holding of stocks with different levels of contribution (the amount of each stock in each ETF). For example, "XLK" is a "Technology Select Sector SPDR® Fund", so it has holdings in Apple, Microsoft, PayPal, Master Card, Adobe, etc. You can find ETFs for virtually any category. For example, you can find an ETF themed around green energy, which will have holdings in a wide range of green energy companies. Look at the monthly returns and 5-year chart for each ETF to see its performance, and research the larger holdings (both covered below). An individual stock is just the option to purchase a share for one company, not a whole portfolio. ETFs are great since they automatically diversify your portfolio, which reduces your risk (if one stock tanks, you will lose less since the ETF is made up of multiple stocks).


3. How to evaluate at a stock:

This is the hardest part of investing, since there is an overwhelming amount of quantitative and qualitative information out there, and your job is to work through irrelevant buzz/garbage and look at what matters. In general, valuation is determined by 5 main things: financial fundamentals, news releases/new company developments, "hype" or buzz surrounding the stock on social media (reddit, twitter, ticktock), and unpredictable world/political events that impact the market the company is in. Your job is think about the net impact of each of these factors before making each trade.

I personally like to use Webull (https://www.webull.com/) to check out companies/ETFs (I'll explain an ETF later), since the interface is clean (unlike Yahoo Finance) and contains all the information I need.


i) Fundamentals:

There is a overwhelming of information here, so I'll break it down to the variables that are actually relevant. Most/all of these can easily be found online using the link I posted or other sources:

EPS (Earnings/Share) -- This tells you the value/return a company gets from each share sold. In other words, how effective the company is at using the money that you put into their stock. There isn't necessarily a "good" or "bad" EPS, just look at the trends across different 3-month periods. If EPS is increasing, the company is using its attracted investments to generate earnings; if decreasing, the company is likely bleeding money.

BVPS (book value/share) -- Think of this as the total value of the company per each share. A way to look at this is the total sum of assets+liabilities (how much the company owns and owes to others). An increasing BVPS means that the company is accumulating capital assets (assets that generate revenues -- an assembly line to make shoes for example) or is facing increasing liabilities (could be because the company is looking to expand, and needs the leverage).

P/E (price/earnings ratio) -- Calculated by taking share price/EPS. In general, a high P/E ratio means that a stock might be overvalued (people are paying a high price for lower earnings), while a low P/E means that a stock might be undervalued and the company is overperforming compared to what its price would suggest.

D/E (debt/equity ratio) -- This looks at how much the company relies on borrowing money in order to operate. In general, as the D/E ratio increases, the company becomes increasingly leveraged on borrowed money, which usually makes these stocks more unstable and risky in the long-run. A D/E>2 is usually a red flag, though smaller companies that are looking to expand often have higher D/E ratios since they need to take out loans in order to grow.

SOE/BS/CFS (income statement, balance sheet, cash flow statement) -- Lots to look at here, but honestly I just look at the cash flow statement to see if the company is hemorrhaging money over the past several 3-month periods.

Beta (B) -- A stocks "beta" measures the volatility or riskiness of that stock relative to all other stocks on the market. A beta=1 indicates a stock with the "most average" volatility compared to the market, with beta>1 and beta<1 meaning more and less risky, respectively. Another way to think about beta is how much the stock wildly swings over a long period of time. Look at the stock's long-term (5-year) charts to see this visually.


ii) Company news and press releases:

This is one of the more qualitative aspects of stock valuation, but is usually as if not more important than the raw fundamentals of a company. There is no way to talk about every possible type of company news that will impact stock prices, but here are some relevant examples:

Some company getting FDA approval for a drug, a clinical trial going well for a pharmatheutical company, an announcement of an attractive new product line or feature, release of encouraging annual/quarterly financial information, a company-sponsored event or conference going well, a merger between companies, a new board of directors/CEO, or other random company actions. For example, if Elon Musk tweet that "Tesla is too high", Tesla will probably fall.

Obviously, this depends on the industry to some extent, and each case is going to be different. But keep an eye out for stories that cover these topics, as they will have an impact on the attractiveness of a stock (look under "News" on Webull).


iii) Hype/buzz surrounding a stock:

This is the hardest to predict, follow, and make decisions on. There is a LOT of misinformation out there, or people intentionally trying to mislead you to buy a stock in order to pump-and-dump the price (buy a lot at once and sell all once the price hits a certain level). Following investing subreddits like r/wallstreetbets/, joining some investment discords, and maybe even asking your friends who invest are great ways to see how people are talking about stocks. Often, even if a company's fundamentals and news is garbage, enough people can follow some ticktock influencer and force the stock to increase.

Take all of the "hype" surrounding the stock with a grain of salt, since it's just random people posting random thoughts online.


iv) Other news and world events:

As you probably know, political events often have a significant impact on investor confidence. For example, invading US government buildings tends to not be encouraging for investors. Anyways, this category is a combination of political, legal, cultural, and global factors. To give some concrete examples, with Joe Biden's election win, green energy and electric vehicle stocks are up, since investors are anticipating tax subsidies and investments into green energy companies. Similarly, New York State recently loosened restrictions for online gambling, which increases the demand for stocks for companies involved in that market.

In general, with this, you are betting on how society will change in several months/years down the line. Consequently, investors are expecting certain parts of society to change in a way that will make certain companies/industries more demanded. For example, Tesla's meteoric rise is due to an expectation of electric cars dominating the automobile market.


v) Analyst or "expert" opinions and target price ranges:

A target price range is basically where experts believe the stock will be priced after a certain period of time. You obviously want to look for stocks with a favorable price range, but keep in mind that these can change depending on the factors I talked about above.

Analyst opinions or ratings are expert opinions on whether you should buy, hold, or sell a stock. Look at webull's "Analysis" tab to see opinions there. Smaller stocks don't always have these unfortunately.


vi) Overall:

EACH of these factors are important when making a decision to buy or sell; none takes precedence over another. Please consider each of these, and keep in mind that there is a LOT of uncertainty, and can get lucky/unlucky due to factors out of your control (CEO shit their pants during a press conference, etc).


4. How to diversify your portfolio and minimize risk:

Above all else ETFs are great since they basically automatically diversify your investment across multiple companies for you. However, you don't want to buy multiple ETFs within the same industry (I.e., 2 different ETFs within the green energy industry), since these often have similar holdings (same companies appearing in both), and have strong positive correlation between each-other (if one rises, the other rises; vice-versa). Be careful to reduce the overlap of companies in your ETFs to diversify as much as possible.

You also want to diversify across multiple industries. For example, owning stocks/ETFs in natural resources, green energy, AI technology, automobiles, etc. A good rule of thumb is to not have more than 10% of your portfolio in one individual stock, and no more than 25% of your total investments in one industry.

5. My recommendations -- relatively safe ETFs and stocks to start with:

IOO (BTC iShares Global 100 ETF): takes the top 100 large-cap (big) multinational stocks. Has mostly safe holdings in things like Apple, Johnson & Johnson, Amazon, and Microsoft.

ARKF (ARK Fintech Innovation ETF): holdings in companies leading financial tech innovation. Riskier holdings (smaller companies), but has had excellent past performance.

HERO (Evolve E-Gaming Index ETF Hedged): holdings in firms that invest and help grow in e-sports and e-gaming, and just videogame companies in general. Safe holdings in Nintendo, Capcom, NVIDIA, Ubisoft, etc.

VEA (Vanguard FTSE Developed Markets ETF): an international ETF that takes the best performing and largest (most mature) international companies. Wide-range of holdings in companies like Toyota and Samsung.

SNE (Sony): positive cash flow, very high analyst opinions, above-average beta (<1), positive recent earnings news.

GM (General Motors): shift to working with electric-vehicle startups, relatively good value, strong analyst ratings.


6. General "do's" and "don'ts":

i) Avoid panic selling: daily fluctuations can and do happen, but don't freak out because your portfolio lost 5% of its value in a single day; it happens. Generally, if you portfolio is diversified, it will bounce back. Don't compulsively check your portfolio every hour because you are worried, you will be fine in most cases.

ii) Be patient: investing is a long-term commitment, and you should expect to see 6-8% returns on your portfolio if you do your research and avoid panic selling. You aren't going to get rich overnight through investing long-term; rather, you are building up your portfolio overtime. 6-8% may not sound like much, but it really adds up over the years.

iii) Avoid penny stocks: these are mostly a trap. A lot of the time, hype will be generated by a group of people looking to "pump and dump" the stock. In other words, they will convince a bunch of people to invest and increase the price/share, and sell it as soon as it rises.

iv) Don't try and "time" the market: you won't win. The best way to beat the market is to be patient, realize that there will be some volatility, and let your assets grow. Waiting until 4 days from now to invest because it's the "right time" is silly, and will not amount to much.

v) Don't yolo your life savings into a meme stock because some 15-year-old on /r/wallstreetbets/ told you that it will rise "to the moon!" Basically, don't give into hype and make compulsive buying/selling decisions.


Anyways, that's my advice. I hope it's helpful and please feel free to respond to this if you have any questions.
 
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I put $25 into dogecoin yesterday morning for 1271 shares when it was still at .019 woke up this morning to Elon musk tweeting about dogecoin and it’s up to .055/share. Come on doge!
A cryptocurrency based off of a meme and a dying brick-and-motor video game company are some of the best performing assets on the market.

It's certainly an interesting start to 2021 when everything I've learned in university about rational markets and economic equilibrium is proven to be total nonsense.
 

cookie

my wish like everyone else is to be seen
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
please don't buy doge unless you accept that it could drop down to <$0.01 which is where it was before elon musk tweeted about it. You can make money if you're early in a speculative bubble but it's generally quite hard to tell whether you're early or late to it.
 

BP

Upper Decky Lip Mints
is a Contributor to Smogon
Based on my very profound knowledge of cryptocurrencies and the stock market as a whole I'd say the bubble burst when Doge fell below 8 cents. should've sold.
 

Diophantine

Banned deucer.
Hoping to revive a dead thread here, coz I do think this stuff is pretty interesting and worth sharing knowledge about, whether it be to help people get jobs in finance, or stop them from losing shitloads of money.

Seems like r/wallstbets has made option trading popular (?).

I love this channel, and this video is pretty good for anyone with an interest in option trading.


Here is a free online book that's pretty well regarded on quantitative finance. A lot of options stuff there.
I think this one might be the more beginner friendly version. I haven't read it though.
Here is another free online book that aims to teach about volatility / option trading.
Shout out to McGrrr for putting me onto this youtube channel.
 

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