It Was A Dark and Stormy Night (Gen V Heavy Offense Rain) - Peaked 40th on Smogon

[Accipender]

Greetings all, my name is Accipender. I have been competitively battling for several years, but just recently started playing BW, as my old computer was a Mac running 10.4.11 (it was about five years old) and was unable to run either PO or PL. Thus, when it broke, I downloaded PO pretty much first-thing I got my hands on a temp laptop. Based on the talk of the day, Drizzle’s days were numbered, so I rushed to try out this new playstyle (I’d really only run one very brief team of it in my DPP days). After a variety of iterations of the team (I think this is about v5), I have had some smashing success, peaking about 40 early in this round at about 1300, only to plummet to less than a thousand. It’s fared decently against pretty good players, and managed to get me to the finals of the “Glorified Guesswork” LNT, but is inconsistent at best. Thus, I seek out the help of my fellow players, as this team definitely has potential, and I feel that this can be much better than it is. Thus, I put aside my pride, and present my humble version of Rain Heavy Offense.

TEAM AT A GLANCE

Disclaimer: Super-long Team-Building Process

Team-Building Process:
I read about a Specs Torunerosu in the suspect thread, and thought, “hey, that sounds like a cool ‘mon”. I had been waiting to put together a rain team, and this seemed like the perfect rain abuser to center the team around; at this point he was relatively unknown (in fact, I still play people who don’t know the exact details of Hurricane) and hit like a truck, pretty much 2HKO’ing the entire metagame. Of course, Politoed is almost mandatory, so he was included.

At this point, I decided to play around with another tool 5th gen offered up – Nattorei! He provided a wall; had his fire weakness limited by the rain; he could lay spikes; and I soon found out that he had amazing defensive synergy with Politoed. Thus, he was hastily added to the roster.

At this point, I decided to use Latios. Having never had the chance to abuse use him in OU, I jumped on this chance, which I believed would be a limited-time offer. Being uncreative/lazy, I just slapped a Choice Scarf on him and called it a day, as he would be able to revenge pretty much any Dragon-type ‘mon and many others.

Another thing about this team – it was started before the Swift Swim ban, so there was really no reason to NOT run a Swift Swim ‘mon. I eventually decided on Ludicolo, as imo the best Kingdra set for rain was the specs set, and I already had two choiced ‘mons and was not particularly anxious to have another. Ludicolo would give me a set-up sweeper (he was SD, for what it’s worth) that would be able to punch holes in teams.

Finally, I wanted a “rain counter”. Since I had no idea what could be an effective “counter”, having never played the meta, I ripped one straight out of a RMT – Toxicroak. I found the SD set very interesting and so gave it a spin and was very impressed during his tenure.

This was when the team was shaken up drastically for the first time. After Swift Swim was banned, I was forced to remove Ludicolo (or use rain dish, which really didn’t fit the team too well). After some failed attempts at Rain Stall, I returned to my traditional ground of heavy offense. I found that Borotorosu was a pain to play around, and, after the banning of SS+drizzle, I found that he was almost literally on every other team. I had played a lot with Jolteon in the previous generation, so gave him a spin, both to suck up opposing Thunder/bolts and fire back STAB Thunders in return.

Another thing about me: I almost always ask for suggestions after a match. Though most of them are cursory at best, after a match with Stallion, I was suggested to remove Nattorei, as he was kind of a weak link and didn’t really fit the tempo of the team. After noticing my team was INCRDEDIBLY Dragon-weak (in a meta absolutely filled with such ‘mons), I realized the necessity of a steel type. Wanting to keep the offensive pace of the team, I looked at potential steel-types, and quickly settled on Jirachi for some reason. The set I ran was a CM/Wish passer that ran Thunder and Icy Wind (yeah, weird, I know).

Next, though Jolteon had proven to be a valuable asset, especially with Rotom-W’s all over the places (they were all the rage at the time), I kind of realized that I failed to sand teams. If ‘Toed died, it was pretty much gg, so I tried to add a ‘mon that could counter, or at least check, a large number of the sand threats, and eventually arrived at Gliscor.

After this, I reached a relatively good, peaking around 1275…and then plummeted to about 1000. I then took a critical look at the team, and redesigned much of it. In addition to some small changes, such as modifying the EV spread of Gliscor and making Torunerosu Timid, rather than Modest, I made some pretty significant changes. Though I loved (and still do) Toxicroak to death, he was kind of weak, and, begrudgingly, tested another ‘mon over him. Ironically, I ultimately decided on Jolteon (again), running the exact same set, but with modified EVs and nature. Also, I changed Jirachi’s moveset and EV’s and nature on advice from Plus, my former Tutor. Finally, he also advised a switch to Specs Latios, which I also adopted.

After posting this RMT, I had several suggestions. Again, there were some small nitpicks (HP Water > HP Ice on Torunerosu and Trick > Thunder on Latios), but two whole sets were changed (Sp. Def. Toed -> ScarfToad and Gliscor's set was changed around as well), and Jolteon was replaced entirely on recommendation from Eo. He recommended a CM Virizion, which acts as a go-to stat-upper (the only on my team), a rain counter, and a Borotorosu/Rotom-W counter.

Thus, we have the team in its current state. Now, onto the in-depth view of the team itself!

Politoed (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Hypnosis
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam

Ah. The quintessential Politoed. This ‘mon should need no explanation; he’s a must have for rain teams. I originally had a Specially Defensive set here,but Smith recommended that I try a more offensive set to fit the nature of the team. I haven't looked back since - ScarfToed is really an incredible 'mon. He nets so many surprise kills, it isn't even funny. With the current spread, he outspeeds all 393 speed and below, including Salamence, Garchomp, Borotorosu, Tornelos, Latios, and many others, and can OHKO most of them. As far as the moveset, I run Hydro Pump for primary STAB, and the Base 270 power in rain is really the reason why; it's simply incredible. The only drawback is the PP, which has been a real buzzkill at times...The other moves are more or less there for coverage; Ice Beam slays Dragons and genies, Thunderbolt wrecks Gyarados and gives me a damaging move to fellow bulky waters (most of whom can barely touch me). Finally, Hypnosis is kind of a shaky move. Though it's been quite useful so far, I can't help but be disappointed when it misses at a critical time; thus I've been contemplating switching it to another move, and would appreciate input. Specifically, I've been considering Surf, Perish Song, and Focus Blast.

Birijion @ Leftovers
Trait: Justice Heart
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Birijion replaced Jolteon on the team, primarily due to survivability issues. Though it serves as a less effective electric pivot (Thunderwaves from Rotom-W and Borotorosu are more or less the bane of its existence), it more than makes up for it with its water resist, making it a very nice Rotom-W counter. On a lesser note, it laughs at Quagsire, who can otherwise be a hassle to play around. Additionally, as mentioned earlier, it has far more survivability, as reflected in the item choice (Jolteon was LO). Finally, it provides me with the only team's status-upper in the form of Calm Mind. As far as the moveset itself, Giga Drain serves as primary STAB and a recovery option. Focus Blast is a secondary STAB, but has...shall we say, less than stellar accuracy. Finally, HP Ice is to round out the coverage to allow checking of non-Scarf variants of Garchomp and Randorosu, among many others. As far as EVs/nature, much like Latios and Torunerosu, the emphasis was on outspeeding similar speed tier mons such as the fighting trio, Randorosu, Modest Borotorosu/Torunerosu, Garchomp, and Lati@s. Other than that, all of it was pumped into SAtk to make the attacks hurt more.

Torunerosu (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Man, this guy is so overpowered, it’s crazy. There are probably fewer than a dozen pokemon in the meta that aren’t OHKOed or 2HKOed by this guy simply spamming Hurricane. I built the team around this guy originally, to abuse Specs Hurricane, and he remains the overall MVP. The other attacks are kind of situational moves; Focus Blast is useful to nail the steel/rock switchins who resist Hurricane, especially Tyranitar who trolls this team with Sand Stream. U-Turn is a scouting move that I kind of threw on there for no reason other than he gets it. Hidden Power Ice is pretty much only used to mop up sand abusers. Other than that, he’s all about power. I run 8 HP to get 301 HP and survive 3 Seismic Tosses from Blissey. I run timid to get the jump on all +110’s and below, most notably the new fighting trio.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SDef / 108 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Thunder
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head
- Wish

This is one of my other pivots, and probably the most offensive of the three. This guy is made to abuse Serene Grace as much as possible. I utilize the classic paraflinch strategy, but instead of TWave, use Thunder, with its 100% accuracy and 60% paralysis rate. Further, Thunder provides me with an answer to Skarmory, who just loves switching in after it sees I pack Iron Head. Speaking of which, Iron Head is my primary STAB and other half of the infamous paraflinch strategy; it also is my main answer to Tyranitar. It 2HKOes any variant that I’ve ever played, which is good enough for me. Ice Punch provides an answer to the dragons I theoretically counter and even allows me to pick off weakened Gliscor. Further, the 20% freeze rate is nothing to laugh at. Finally, Wish is my primary form of healing, both for Jirachi himself and the team as a whole. Many times, I spend a lot of time switching back and forth between Gliscor and Jirachi or Politoed and Jirachi and can get off a quick wish for 202 HP on the go. Finally, the nature/evs may seem strange, but he is (IIRC) only 3HKOed by Latios’ DM, which is pretty nifty. Generally, it’s a bulkier spread which allows him to serve his role as a support ‘mon more easily.

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunder
- Psycho Shock

This is the other of my power-hitters (along with Torunerosu). Much like Torunerosu, I opted for maximum speed to outrun opposing modest Latios as well as the new legendary fighting trio. I also opted for specs because I felt that this team functions without a dedicated revenge killer, and the massive increase in power is appreciated. That being said, there have been times where I kick myself for not running scarf. As far as the moveset, I chose DM as my primary STAB option for the huge increase in power; simply, 2 DM’s (factoring in the SAtk drop) does more than 2 Dragon Pulses, and if I can’t 2HKO, I’m not staying in. Surf and Thunder are both there to abuse the rain, and Psycho Shock is there to kill Blisseys and CM’ers. I used to run Trick here, but found it not as useful, but would try it again should people strongly suggest it.

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
This is the final defensive pivot and IMHO one of the best 'mons in the current meta. It can totally shut down most walls with taunt. It is possibly the best sand counter in the game; it resists EQ and is neutral to Stone Edge to give it a good chance against the infamous EdgeQuake combo, and otherwise is not terribly bothered by most other moves from Sand absuers or starters (Crunch, X-Scissor, and Return all fail to 2HKO from Tar and Dory, respectively, IIRC). Other than that, he tanks random physical hits like a champ. Especially notable is his ability to survive a +2 Dragon Claw/Outrage from Garchomp and 2HKO back with Ice Fang. Finally, he provides an electric resist against a 'Mon like Jirachi or HP-Ice-less Borotorosu. As far as the moves, Taunt and Toxic are there to shut down walls; taunt immobilizes them and Toxic slowly kills them. For the more offensive moves, Ice Fang and Earthquake provide excellent coverage and allow Gliscor to check many mons, including almost all the physical Dragon-type monsters.

What's Past is Prologue: Former Members

Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Boil Over
- Hypnosis
- Encore
- Ice Beam

Ah. The quintessential Politoed. This ‘mon should need no explanation; he’s a must have for rain teams. I chose a bulkier spread because – let’s face it – he’s not there to punch holes in the opponent’s team. Specifically, I wanted to be able to tank special hits, as many of the more prominent pokemon that would otherwise threaten this team are special. Further, I have a dedicated physical wall in Gliscor, and my other special wall (Jirachi) is made specifically for Latios, so I required another, more generalized special wall. To give you an idea of Toed’s special bulk, he is not OHKO’d by Specs Latios Draco Meteor; though I would never leave him in on such a play, this truly attests to his amazing bulk. His moveset befits a defensive player, relegated to a primarily support role. Boil Over is his primary STAB that also serves as a potential burn-inducer. Ice beam is the secondary attack, and is useful for beating many sand abusers that I switch into. Encore allows Toed to be an excellent anti-lead; I can Encore other leads if I predict Stealth Rock/Reflect/Light Screen. Further, it allows Toed to serve as an excellent Rank counter (this team was, after all, built in the time of peak Rank usage); he tanks all of his unboosted attacks on the switchin and can encore rank in case of Calm Mind. Lefties Ranks give me trouble, but I have never lost to another variant. Finally, Hypnosis is amazing as a disruptor, especially on a predicted switchin. The ability to almost completely neuter their weather counter is almost priceless and a valuable asset for any team.

Jolteon (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball
- Volt Change

This is my electric pivot. With threats such as Rotom-W and Borutorosu on almost every team, having a good counter to both is necessary. I chose Modest over Timid because I appreciate the increase in power and still outspeed Jolly Garchomp and OHKO with HP Ice. Unfortunately, I recently found that Timid Starmie then outruns me, so I am considering switching back to Timid myself. For similar reasons, I run Life Orb, and, though I appreciate the extra raw power it grants, it really limits Jolteon’s survivability. Thus, I am considering switching it to leftovers and would appreciate feedback on this. Now, onto the movepool; for LO Jolt, it’s really quite bog standard; Thunder is there as the primary STAB option and to abuse Rain. HP Ice is there to beat would-be counter such as Garchomp and Gliscor (yes – people actually keep Scor in on me!) Shadow Ball is kind of a filler, though is useful for the slight increase in damage on the Lati twins, though I would not be uncomfortable switching it. Finally, Volt Change is the attack that looks great on paper, but I hardly ever use, mostly for the aforementioned survival reasons (LO + SR + Spikes really adds up!). I’ve considered running another Wish here, or possibly Heal Bell, as my team HATES status (especially paralysis) with a burning passion, though this would interfere with my Poison Heal Gliscor…help would be appreciated here as well.

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Fling
- Taunt
- Acrobat
- Earthquake
This is the final defensive pivot and the newest addition to the team. Ever since I played PH Gliscor, I’ve loved it; it’s ability to counter Sand Sweepers (Doryuuzu, Tyranitar, Landlos sans HP Ice) is unparalleled, and he counters a whole lot more than that! I wanted taunt to be able to stop setup by the opponent as well as be able to fare a lot better against Skarmory and Bronzong. As for the other moves, I’m not so sure. Fling is to basically get a one-time toxic as well as lose my item so Acrobat becomes a 110 BP STAB move. Other than that, Acrobat and Earthquake are my STAB attacking combo which really do superbly against the vast majority of the metagame. Nevertheless, I’ve been considering running the Iconiscor or some other SD variant over this, as my team lacks a set-up sweeper, and, honestly, this Gliscor lacks power.

Well, there's my team, for better or worse. Please rate it and help me bring this team to its potential. Thanks to Arkeis for the sprites and to several people, especially Plus, for looking over and helping me with the team!

Oh, and for people who want to test this team out or are otherwise intrigued, here's the import text for the team as shown here.

Importable Team

Politoed (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Hypnosis
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam

Birijion @ Leftovers
Trait: Justice Heart
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Torunerosu (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Water]

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SDef / 108 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Thunder
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head
- Wish

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Psycho Shock

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake

 

[Accipender]

Offensive Threats
 
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon142.png[/IMG] Aerodactyl - Honestly, I've never faced one.  Theoretically, Politoed 2HKOes with Boil Over if I don't catch it on an encore.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/567.png[/IMG] Archeops -  This also isn't much of a threat.  Gliscor can handle pretty much all variants and can knock it down enough to activate weak-kneed.
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/9b/Ani482MS.png[/IMG] Azelf -  I've also never faced one of these, though I would probably switch to either Virizion or Politoed depending on the set.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/625.png[/IMG] Bisharp -  Again, I've never really seen one
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/257.png[/IMG]Blaziken -  Generally, Gliscor is my first answer, as he is (iirc) not OHKOed by Fire Blast and OHKOes in return with Earthquake.  In a pinch, Politoed or Latios can check him.
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7e/Ani286MS.png[/IMG] Breloom - Gliscor, especially if Toxic Orb has already activated.  If not, generally I'll let Toed take the spore then switch to Gliscor or Torunerosu.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/609.png[/IMG] Chandelure - Politoed can handle all variants I've ever faced pretty comfortably.  Latios/Jolteon/Torunerosu can also check it if Toed's health is too low.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/638.png[/IMG] Cobalion - Honestly, another 'mon I've never faced.  I guess I'd check him with Torunerosu or simply counter non-HP-Ice variants with Gliscor.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/534.png[/IMG] Conkeldurr - Torunerosu can check him, Latios can check him, Gliscor can counter him unless I'm low on HP.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/555-normal.png[/IMG] Darmanitan - Again, Gliscor can counter, other 'mons can check.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/386-speed.png[/IMG]Deoxys-S - Generally, this is a lead with Stealth Rock/Light Screen/Reflect/Taunt.  If this is the case, Politoed will usually encore, and I proceed to switch to Torunerosu to blast Deoxys-S or their switchin into oblivion.  If it is an LO variant, I can usually switch either Virizion or Jirachi in and tank a hit and OHKO in return.
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon149.png[/IMG] Dragonite - Politoed can tank any variant I've seen and 2HKO with Ice Beam.  SubRoost variants are a bitch to beat, though, and usually come down to taunting them with Gliscor.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/621.png[/IMG] Druddigon -Never seen one; theoretically, switch around until I have Latios out and DM it.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/604.png[/IMG] Eelektross -
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon466.png[/IMG] Electivire - Luckily, I haven't seen too many of these, because they have the potential to really mess up my team.  If it came down to it, I'd probably switch to Gliscor on a predicted Earthquake/ThunderPunch/Thunderbolt/Wild Bolt and tank the Ice Punch and OHKO with Earthquake.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/500.png[/IMG] Emboar - I've never seen one; I guess I'd probably switch to either Politoed or Latios and OHKO with Hydro Pump or DM
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/37/Ani395MS.png[/IMG] Empoleon - This is another 'mon that's a pain to play around.  If it's a tank version, I can handle it pretty well, but sub petaya agility variants can be tricky if they get an agility up (and they usually do...).  it'd be a matter of switching around until I felt I could tank a hit and beat it.
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a7/196MS.png[/IMG]Espeon - Generally, I switch to Jirachi, as he can pretty much take anything they throw at me.  CM variants are annoying, but I can generally paraflinch them to death the moment Thunder para's.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/589.png[/IMG] Escavalier - Generally, I have to sac a mon and switch in something that can OHKO (Torunerosu/Latios)
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/530.png[/IMG] Excadrill - Gliscor is my number one switch-in.  In a pinch, I can sac a 'mon and send out Politoed (or even tank a hit with him) and Hydro Pump him for the KO.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/445.png[/IMG]Garchomp - Scarf Variants are dealt with fairly easily with prediction.  Non-scarf variants are usually handled by Gliscor, who tanks non-Outrage moves unfairly well, and Jirachi can take hits if locked into Outrage,  Politoed and Latios can also outspeed an KO to check.
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/18/Ani094MS.png[/IMG] Gengar -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/623.png[/IMG] Golurk - Generally, Politoed can tank hits pretty well and OHKO with Hydro Pump, as can Latios with surf.
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d1/Ani130MS.png[/IMG] Gyarados - Politoed can take a +1 waterfall twice and OHKO with HP Elec.  Other than that, Latios can probably check it.
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/612.png[/IMG] Haxorus - Similar deal with Chomp; Gliscor is my safest check, but if they outrage, straight to Jirachi.
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/03/Ani485MS.png[/IMG] Heatran -
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon214.png[/IMG] Heracross -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/635.png[/IMG] Hydreigon -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/74/Ani392MS.png[/IMG]Infernape -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/77/Ani385MS.png[/IMG] Jirachi -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/14/Ani135MS.png[/IMG] Jolteon -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d8/Ani230MS.png[/IMG] Kingdra -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/553.png[/IMG] Krookodile -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/646.png[/IMG] Kyurem -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/645.png[/IMG] Landorus -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/381.png[/IMG]Latios -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/549.png[/IMG] Lilligant -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b0/Ani448MS.png[/IMG] Lucario -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/cc/Ani068MS.png[/IMG] Machamp -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d8/Ani462MS.png[/IMG] Magnezone -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/67/Ani473MS.png[/IMG] Mamoswine -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/49/Ani376MS.png[/IMG] Metagross -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/620.png[/IMG] Mienshao -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/579.png[/IMG] Reuniclus -
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon407.png[/IMG] Roserade -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/373.png[/IMG]Salamence -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/586.png[/IMG] Sawsbuck -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b4/Ani212MS.png[/IMG] Scizor -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/560.png[/IMG] Scrafty-
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/537.png[/IMG] Seismitoad -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/497.png[/IMG] Serperior -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/492-land.png[/IMG]Shaymin -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/561.png[/IMG] Sigilyph -
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon235.png[/IMG] Smeargle -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/19/Ani121MS.png[/IMG]Starmie -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/639.png[/IMG] Terakion -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/642.png[/IMG] Thundurus -
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon468.png[/IMG] Togekiss -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/641.png[/IMG] Tornadus -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/59/Ani248MS.png[/IMG] Tyranitar -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/df/003MS.png[/IMG]Venusaur -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/494.png[/IMG] Victini -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/640.png[/IMG] Virizion -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/637.png[/IMG] Volcarona -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a0/Ani461MS.png[/IMG] Weavile -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/571.png[/IMG] Zoroark -

Defensive Threats

[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/594.png[/IMG] Alomomola - 
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b5/Ani242MS.png[/IMG] Blissey -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/0d/Ani437MS.png[/IMG] Bronzong -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/4b/Ani251MS.png[/IMG] Celebi -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/113.png[/IMG]Chansey -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/386-defense.png[/IMG]Deoxys-D -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/563.png[/IMG] Cofagrigus -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/558.png[/IMG] Crustle -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/84/Ani356MS.png[/IMG]Dusclops - 
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/598.png[/IMG] Ferrothorn -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/81/Ani205MS.png[/IMG] Forretress -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/569.png[/IMG] Garbodor - 
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/526.png[/IMG] Gigalith -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/3f/Ani472MS.png[/IMG] Gliscor -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/17/Ani450MS.png[/IMG] Hippowdon -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/593.png[/IMG] Jellicent -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/380.png[/IMG]Latias -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/630.png[/IMG] Mandibuzz -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/71/198MS.png[/IMG]Murkrow - 
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/10/038MS.png[/IMG]Ninetales - 
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/e9/186MS.png[/IMG]Politoed - 
[IMG]http://www.pokestadium.com/pokemon/sprites/icons/233.gif[/IMG]Porygon2 -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/5/5b/Ani479OMS.png[/IMG] Rotom-H -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d6/Ani479WMS.png[/IMG]Rotom-W - 
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/545.png[/IMG] Scolipede -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/31/Ani227MS.png[/IMG] Skarmory -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/12/Ani143MS.png[/IMG] Snorlax -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/cd/Ani245MS.png[/IMG] Suicune -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/78/Ani260MS.png[/IMG] Swampert -
[IMG]http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/dpicon/dpicon073.png[/IMG] Tentacruel -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/47/Ani134MS.png[/IMG]Vaporeon -
[IMG]http://veekun.com/dex/media/icons/547.png[/IMG] Whimsicott -
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/34/Ani178MS.png[/IMG]Xatu - 
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/15/Ani145MS.png[/IMG] Zapdos -

 

[Smith]

Good team, good team. You seem to have the concept of rain offense down and I don't think any members need to be replaced, so I'll just nitpick some sets.

First up is Politoed. The current set is great and everything but I think a more offensive set would both be more effective and relavent to the team's theme- specifically, I'm referring to his scarf set. With a Modest nature and the rain he summons, Politoed hits for some surprisingly powerful damage with Hydro Pump and can use Ice Beam and HP Electric for everything else. He functions excellently as a revenge killer, especially against the genies who think they can stay in only to get pounded. He also makes a great late game sweeper and was the glue of my team when i used rain offense. I understand that this creates problems for reuniclus but I will get to those in a sec!

Next is Tornadus. This may seem random, but have you considered Hp water? Let's face it- 99% of the time you're using Hurricane and the other things are for predicting a Tyranitar switch in. When, then, if ever, will you be using Hp Ice? Against the like of Gliscor and Garchomp, not only does Hurricane wreck them anyway, but HP water will do plenty damage with rain boosting its power. Either HP ice does the same amount or Hurricane would have worked fine- meanwhile, with rain boosting water attacks, you have a more generally powerful move. My basic point is that you don't need hp ice for coverage, so why not run an option that gives you a higher probability of being able to clean up in the late game?

Next, latios. Remember how I said I would address Reuniclus? Yeah trick is good here, probably over Thunder actually. Despite the accuracy boost and paralysis chance, Latios is fast and the coverage it gives you in negligable. On the flip side Trick is very handy! It really fucks up Reuniclus for one, and many other threats just dying to switch in (like most physical attackers or special walls or pursuit users). It gives you a good way for handling stall teams as well as in the late-game if you feel that you might enjoy the capacity to be able to switch moves.

And finally Gliscor. I personally don't like that set all that much, and mainly feel that Acrobat isn't very efficient for Gliscor's role as a stop to sand sweepers and physical attackers (remember Virizion carry hp ice or something) and I also don't like Fling's one time poison capacity. I personally think Ice Fang is much better. Currently Landlos actually beats you most of the time, so this way you can actually hurt it! It's also great for breakin' balloons and the likes of dragonite, while still handling to an extent the grass types you don't like. Instead of Fling you can use Toxic to make a good stall breaker, or, as I do, protect to help gain toxic orb recovery. Either one works great.

That's all the advice I got, good team. I hope this helps!

 

[ChaosNebula]

At first glance I see a glaring ice weakness.. that being in Latios, Gliscor, and Tornadus.

You might have that in check, but have you ever tried CM Latias? It works really well in rain teams

You also seem to run a careful nature on your Jirachi. A careful nature degrades the special attack stat, while you use Thunder.... which is a special attack..... which is completely illogical to use a degrading nature.. while using a special attacking move.

 

[Meru]

Timid Starmie doesn't outspeed Modest Jolteon...

 

[kd24]

jolteon reaches 359 starmie hits 361

 

[Zebstrika]

For Jirachi I think Sassy>Careful.

 

[Accipender]

First up is Politoed. The current set is great and everything but I think a more offensive set would both be more effective and relavent to the team's theme- specifically, I'm referring to his scarf set. With a Modest nature and the rain he summons, Politoed hits for some surprisingly powerful damage with Hydro Pump and can use Ice Beam and HP Electric for everything else. He functions excellently as a revenge killer, especially against the genies who think they can stay in only to get pounded. He also makes a great late game sweeper and was the glue of my team when i used rain offense. I understand that this creates problems for reuniclus but I will get to those in a sec!

It certainly sounds tempting. I worry a bit about the survivability, though, but I'll certainly test it.

Next is Tornadus. This may seem random, but have you considered Hp water? Let's face it- 99% of the time you're using Hurricane and the other things are for predicting a Tyranitar switch in. When, then, if ever, will you be using Hp Ice? Against the like of Gliscor and Garchomp, not only does Hurricane wreck them anyway, but HP water will do plenty damage with rain boosting its power. Either HP ice does the same amount or Hurricane would have worked fine- meanwhile, with rain boosting water attacks, you have a more generally powerful move. My basic point is that you don't need hp ice for coverage, so why not run an option that gives you a higher probability of being able to clean up in the late game?

I certainly have, actually. The problem is that I use Tornadus to pick off weakened sand sweepers at the end of the game, as it outspeeds all non-scarf Randorosu, Garchomp, and Gliscor and cleanly OHKOes with HP Ice in sand, whereas the same cannot be said about HP Water. Of course, this is all theoretical, and I'll certainly test it, but I don't see myself using it any more than HP Ice.

Next, latios. Remember how I said I would address Reuniclus? Yeah trick is good here, probably over Thunder actually. Despite the accuracy boost and paralysis chance, Latios is fast and the coverage it gives you in negligable. On the flip side Trick is very handy! It really fucks up Reuniclus for one, and many other threats just dying to switch in (like most physical attackers or special walls or pursuit users). It gives you a good way for handling stall teams as well as in the late-game if you feel that you might enjoy the capacity to be able to switch moves.

Honestly, never thought of this. Interesting idea, though, so I'll give it a try!

And finally Gliscor. I personally don't like that set all that much, and mainly feel that Acrobat isn't very efficient for Gliscor's role as a stop to sand sweepers and physical attackers (remember Virizion carry hp ice or something) and I also don't like Fling's one time poison capacity. I personally think Ice Fang is much better. Currently Landlos actually beats you most of the time, so this way you can actually hurt it! It's also great for breakin' balloons and the likes of dragonite, while still handling to an extent the grass types you don't like. Instead of Fling you can use Toxic to make a good stall breaker, or, as I do, protect to help gain toxic orb recovery. Either one works great.

I'll give this a try as well.

At first glance I see a glaring ice weakness.. that being in Latios, Gliscor, and Tornadus.

You might have that in check, but have you ever tried CM Latias? It works really well in rain teams

You also seem to run a careful nature on your Jirachi. A careful nature degrades the special attack stat, while you use Thunder.... which is a special attack..... which is completely illogical to use a degrading nature.. while using a special attacking move.

What would you recommend this over? I'm willing to give it a try, but am curious what you'd replace with this (I'm guessing Latios?)

As far as the nature, Jirachi's primary purpose is to tank hits, so I wanted to boost SDef, but not at the cost of Def. Also, the majority of Jirachi's moves are physical, so I didn't want to drop attack either. However, as per...

For Jirachi I think Sassy>Careful.

I'll try reducing speed.

Timid Starmie doesn't outspeed Modest Jolteon...

Thanks, KD24 for beating me to the punch on this; it definitely outspeeds.

Thanks all for the rates!

 

[Eos]

wow, i really am compelled to try this team out actually.
I usually run SS teams if any weather, and am not too acquainted with rain teams. Although, with all of the base information that is given above and the fact that starmie may be put on the team instead of latios (due to the ice triple treat), this team will be a great test. Thanks Accipender for this great idea of a team! :D

 

[Eos]

I'm currently running a Lefties set with Sub on Torun. I'll tell you how it works out.

 

[TransparentOpacity]

Hypnosis on Politoed seems too inaccurate to use reliably, and I would replace it with Perish Song to help with set-up Pokemon, or just to kill the last Pokemon on the other team. Boil Over seems like a better move to use on other weather inducers anyways, and since Boil Over burns a lot of the time, you're going to have even less chance of putting a Pokemon to sleep.

 

[Accipender]

Updated team with suggestions implemented.

Hypnosis on Politoed seems too inaccurate to use reliably, and I would replace it with Perish Song to help with set-up Pokemon, or just to kill the last Pokemon on the other team. Boil Over seems like a better move to use on other weather inducers anyways, and since Boil Over burns a lot of the time, you're going to have even less chance of putting a Pokemon to sleep.

It's served me fairly well, but Perish Song WOULD give me the ability to "beat" Shell Smash/Baton Pass teams, which are otherwise almost impossible to beat...I'll certainly test it. As far as Hydro Pump < Boiling Water, I'll try it, but I don't think that it would be better than Hydro Pump.

 

[Accipender]

I will be honest i am a little confused. I thought you said this was a rain dance team? By the looks of it you just have a politoed lead to look like a rain dance team then you just have a bunch of sweepers. I do not see one guy on your team who actually uses the rain to its advantage. So do you want me to judge you on your team overall or on your team's rain dance abuse because this is a good team overall but it looks like a horrible RAIN DANCE team.

Politoed uses rain to boost Hydro Pump, Tornadus uses rain to get 100% accurate Hurricane, Virizion uses rain to decrease SE Fire-type attacks, Latios uses rain to get boost on Surf, and Jirachi uses rain to get 100% accurate Thunder as well as decreased fire damage.

 

[Ninja-persian]

I will be honest i am a little confused. I thought you said this was a rain dance team? By the looks of it you just have a politoed lead to look like a rain dance team then you just have a bunch of sweepers. I do not see one guy on your team who actually uses the rain to its advantage. So do you want me to judge you on your team overall or on your team's rain dance abuse because this is a good team overall but it looks like a horrible RAIN DANCE team.

Are you crazy? This team clearly uses the benefits of rain. Running thunder instead of Tbolt, using steels as they aren't week to fire in rain. Please, pay more attention on what you say.

Now for some comments on the team. Recently, I have seen some Deoxys-S sweepers with life orb. They pose a big threat to you team as it are quicker than your whole team and threaten latios, tornelos virizion and gliscor with ice beam. Excluding this, your team is very good and solid. Congrats!

 

[iJoonyah]

@Ninja-Persian
True, but becuase Poli is scarfed, I'm pretty sure it can outrun deoxys and KO back, unless he misses, then he's fried by T-Bolt

But still, I see your point.

 

[Accipender]

Are you crazy? This team clearly uses the benefits of rain. Running thunder instead of Tbolt, using steels as they aren't week to fire in rain. Please, pay more attention on what you say.

Now for some comments on the team. Recently, I have seen some Deoxys-S sweepers with life orb. They pose a big threat to you team as it are quicker than your whole team and threaten latios, tornelos virizion and gliscor with ice beam. Excluding this, your team is very good and solid. Congrats!

Thank you for the rate. Luckily, even LO Deoxys-S tends to not pack too much of a bunch. I can switch around and use my resistances until I get to Jirachi, Virizion, or Latios, all of whom can tank their respective SE attacks and OHKO in return. He IS a pain to play, though.

@Ninja-Persian
True, but becuase Poli is scarfed, I'm pretty sure it can outrun deoxys and KO back, unless he misses, then he's fried by T-Bolt

But still, I see your point.

Politoed doesn't outspeed any variant of Deoxys-S I've ever run across, unfortunately...

 

[iJoonyah]

Oh snap, sorry. :P
Well ever since someone posted their RMT with that Deoxys moveset, I've seen lots of people using it, me as well he he. Pull in a blissey or something and then Super Power that shiz.
Well anyway... something that maybe wall it as well as neutering it? I suggest that green blob thing. Give it Twave and make it a wall and it should hold it's back against it.

 

[Accipender]

ok first off
1 i did not know hurricane went up to 100 percent accuracy in rain that one was my bad



2 having a fire type super effective weakened is not really abusing the rain it is just a bonus imo but if you consider it that then go ahead



3. i thought it was thunderbolt on jirachi not thunder. that was a misread on my part




finally on latios i have no excuses that was just me and i apologize for that.




HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Battler3797 do you have any experience in rating teams? For one, his Tornadus clearly makes use of rain, while rain greatly boosts Poli's water moves to extremely powerful levels with specs. And you probably just think rain teams just use water types, but it's much more complex than that






I do know that rain dance teams are more complex then that and it is a rate my team not a bash a member thread so even if i make a mistaken comment (which i accept for the most part was a misread on my part) That still does not mean you should insult.




as for the team when i CAREFULLY read over it i just have one thing



Politoed
i reccomend perish song over hypnosis because occasionally you go up against a ferrothorn lead that puts you at a disadvantage and it can cause your opponent to switch and if you time it right give you a free switch as well.

Actually, I use Gliscor as my lead if I see Nattorei on the opposing team, unless they have several 'mons that beat him. Gliscor beats pretty much every Nattorei build (all except CB Nat) via Taunt. Ironically, though, Nattorei leads are the primary reason I've used Hypnosis, especially recently. I will, however, test Perish Song.

 

[Eos]

I am using quite a different team actually atm.
Politoed: Same
Birijion (at the time it was jolt): Changed to a set up E-Vire. You get an easy speed boost because of Poli. These work with each other very nicely and i'm enjoying this change.
Torunerusu: Switched to basic CM Rankurusu. I find this works nicely with the team, and have set to have it really been shut down. Also is a great plus to outrun stall wars.
Jirachi: Same
Latios: Changed to LO set with hp fire instead of psycho shock. With the ability to switch moves, and being fast still, it is great and has the amazing flexibility to destroy natt when needed as well.
Gliscor: Changed to Iconic's set in which has 72 speed to outspeed others, as well as SD to set up on switches and have minor sweeps when necessary. Overall a better poke imo.

I like these changes a lot. you don't have to change them at all, but i thought i'd let you know because you asked me what I thought when I said I was going to test it :D

 

[badabing]

What's the speed for on rachi?

 

[franky]

Hello accipender,

ice punch seems useless on jirachi, especially since you can deal with opposing dragon types decently. hitting gliscor isn't even relevant since already you have plenty checks to deal with it. i'd like for you to try out protect > ice punch. this simple serves as a reliable recovery move with wish and protect, along with the added benefit of having a free leftovers turn. jirachi seems to be the backbone of your team specially defensive wise and youll need this healing when you want to stand a decent chance against the likes of a well played nasty plot voltlos.

as for other options, gliscor might have two things you might want to consider. firstly, consider 80 speed evs on gliscor to simple outpace the fastest tyranitar, which may sometimes carry an ice beam. secondly, i'm going to echo off my previous suggestion with protect over toxic. the only reason you would protect in the first place is to catch vaporeon, burungeru, and even opposing politoad off guard. you have two checks in latios and virizon to switch into it. protect will honestly provide you more survivability in many ways, along with the added benefit of scouting the likes of specs latios (a common switch in). should you fear surf and jirachi taking plenty damage, you could protect and know if its going to surf or draco meteor. this is just persnal preference but if you don't find use in thunder on latios, a simple swap with trick shall do the trick. this mitigates your weakness to calm blissey and chansey a bit. overall gl!

last note: watch your fucking ass from sd blaziken. be cautious when getting stuck on scarf ice beam because one swords dance can ohko your entire squad via high jump kick. needless to say, excellent team ive played this before!

 

[Accipender]

What's the speed for on rachi?

I /THINK/ it was to outpace all base-70-speed 'mons and lower, most notably Politoed and Tyranitar. I wouldn't object to putting it elsewhere, though.

Hello accipender,

ice punch seems useless on jirachi, especially since you can deal with opposing dragon types decently. hitting gliscor isn't even relevant since already you have plenty checks to deal with it. i'd like for you to try out protect > ice punch. this simple serves as a reliable recovery move with wish and protect, along with the added benefit of having a free leftovers turn. jirachi seems to be the backbone of your team specially defensive wise and youll need this healing when you want to stand a decent chance against the likes of a well played nasty plot voltlos.

I'll certainly give it a try - I typically Thunder against Dragon-types not named Garchomp anyways.

as for other options, gliscor might have two things you might want to consider. firstly, consider 80 speed evs on gliscor to simple outpace the fastest tyranitar, which may sometimes carry an ice beam. secondly, i'm going to echo off my previous suggestion with protect over toxic. the only reason you would protect in the first place is to catch vaporeon, burungeru, and even opposing politoad off guard. you have two checks in latios and virizon to switch into it. protect will honestly provide you more survivability in many ways, along with the added benefit of scouting the likes of specs latios (a common switch in). should you fear surf and jirachi taking plenty damage, you could protect and know if its going to surf or draco meteor.

I'll try Protect on Gliscor, though I've recently tried out SR and it's been pretty decent.

this is just persnal preference but if you don't find use in thunder on latios, a simple swap with trick shall do the trick. this mitigates your weakness to calm blissey and chansey a bit. overall gl!

Oops. I guess I forgot to change it, because I already swapped that! My bad.

last note: watch your fucking ass from sd blaziken. be cautious when getting stuck on scarf ice beam because one swords dance can ohko your entire squad via high jump kick. needless to say, excellent team ive played this before!

Yeah, Blaziken is probably the number one threat to the team, especially if Gliscor goes down. And thank you!

Thanks all for the rates!