Jellicent (Choice Specs - GP 2/2)

shrang

shrang

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Supidest shit ever.

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http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/jellicent

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald
move 4: Ice Beam / Energy Ball
item: Choice Specs
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Modest
evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>If you ever thought Jellicent was just a bulky Water-type that happened to be able to block Rapid Spin, think again. While its stats do not immediately show it, if you dig deeper and examine Jellicent's movepool and the Pokemon that tend to switch into it, it's quite clear that Jellicent can be a surprisingly effective lure and wallbreaker. The biggest catch behind a Choice Specs set is Jellicent's access to the precious Water Spout (which is barely seen on any Pokemon outside of the mighty Kyogre), as well as access to STAB Shadow Ball, which tends to hit its common switch-ins, such as Latias and Celebi, for super effective damage. Powered by rain supplied by Politoed, Jellicent's Water Spout reaches an astounding 337.5 Base Power, rivaling that of Choice Specs Palkia's Hydro Pump. Between Water Spout and Shadow Ball, it is difficult to find a Pokemon that can stomach Jellicent's assaults.</p>

<p>Below are just a number of damage calculations that demonstrate Jellicent's power. All calculations involving Water Spout assume rainy weather (unless stated otherwise), and Jellicent's HP is at 100%:</p>

<ul class=”damage_calculation”>
<li>Water Spout vs 4 HP / 252 SpD Calm Blissey: 40.81% - 48.29%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 112 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 79.18% - 93.31%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 68.54% - 81.13%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 47.44% - 55.97%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 0 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 56.04% - 65.94%</li>
<li>Rain Water Spout vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 121.70% - 143.16%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 28 HP / 252 SpD Calm Wobbuffet: 85.23% - 100.57%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 252 HP / 192 SpD Sassy Tyranitar (Sand): 75.74% - 89.60%</li>
<li>Water Spout vs 252 HP / 92 SpD Ninetales (Sun): 78.86% - 93.14%</li>
<li>Shadow Ball vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 70.88% - 84.07%</li>
<li>Shadow Ball vs 220 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 80.81% - 95.96%</li>
</ul>

<p>As seen above, with some entry hazard support, Jellicent can OHKO or 2HKO most Pokemon in the metagame. In the third slot, Jellicent can utilize a secondary Water STAB attack to fall back on when its HP gets low. Surf is the most reliable option, while Hydro Pump is still immensely powerful in the rain at the cost of accuracy. Scald can be used for the burn chance, but it is generally not preferred, as the lack of power seems counterproductive on a wallbreaking lure.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The last slot is optional. Ice Beam allows Jellicent to hit Dragonite, which can be very problematic if it is at full HP (due to Multiscale), Virizion, and other Grass-types for super effective damage. Energy Ball, on the other hand, deals 4x effective damage against Gastrodon, which is immune to Water Spout and has enough Special Defense to take on Shadow Ball and Recover off the damage. It also hits Vaporeon harder than Shadow Ball does.</p>

<p>The EV spread is used so Jellicent outspeeds minimum Speed Skarmory and swiftly OHKOes it with Water Spout before it can set up hazards (if Sturdy is not active). A Modest nature and max Special Attack are for maximum damage output, while the remaining EVs go into HP for bulk. Water Absorb is obviously the preferred ability, as it can allow Jellicent to recover off hazard damage, thus powering up Water Spout.</p>

<p>As shown by the damage calculations, Jellicent highly appreciates entry hazard support. With a layer of Stealth Rock and Spikes, Jellicent can 2HKO Blissey in the rain with full powered Water Spouts, while with Stealth Rock alone, it can 2HKO Ferrothorn and Rotom-W most of the time. A Ferrothorn of your own is Jellicent's best friend, as it resists all of the Water- / Ghost-type's weakness and easily sets up multiple layers of entry hazards. Jellicent can block Rapid Spin to further put pressure on the opponent. However, entry hazards on Jellicent's side of the field greatly cuts its effectiveness, as they reduce Water Spout's power. Donphan is a decent partner that has good synergy with Jellicent and Ferrothorn, and can set up Stealth Rock while spinning away entry hazards. Starmie is a great offensive Rapid Spinner to use alongside Jellicent, as it can spin away entry hazards while Jellicent lures in Starmie's counters and deals heavy damage to them. Fast Taunt users, Espeon, and Xatu are also good teammates, as they can prevent entry hazards from going up in the first place.</p>

<p>Obviously, Politoed is a great friend of Jellicent's, as it provides endless rain for Jellicent to spam Water Spout with. Blissey is also a fantastic partner, as it is immune to opposing Shadow Balls, can take Thunderbolts and Giga Drains with absolute ease, and can pass giant Wishes to heal Jellicent. In return, Jellicent can switch into Fighting-type attacks that are aimed at Blissey. Latias, Celebi, and Virizion can easily switch into Electric and Grass-type attacks aimed at Jellicent. As mentioned before, Dragonite can be a very problematic Pokemon to deal with if Stealth Rock is not up, as Multiscale allows it to tank Water Spout and potentially Ice Beam with a lot of Special Defense investment. It can then use its powerful Dragon-type STAB to heavily damage Jellicent. Jirachi, Bronzong, and Skarmory are all excellent checks to Dragonite.</p>
 
Except that you could just use Hydro Pump Rotom or Starmie or whatever and you would still be more powerful. Not to mention you're almost never at full health with entry hazards and your superslow speed.
 
Rotom and Starmie do NOT out damage with Hydro Pump, run some calcs and you'll see. Jellicent also works in the fact that it lures out certain Pokemon (see listed) and heavily damages them. Rotom and Starmie do not do that
 
How about replacing Surf with Scald. There's only a slight power difference, and the Burn chance is too good to pass up.

I'm not exactly sure what walls this set, but I don't think that it'd enjoy a Burn. Cool set though, I'll try it later.

I will say this though: Water Spout is good. I use it on my physically defensive Jellicent instead of Scald, and it never fails to disappoint. You're generally going to Recover instead of attacking at low health (or anticipating a hit) which ensures that Water Spout almost always has good base power.
 
pie cream said:
Maybe mention recover?So you could have use water spout more times.
Click to expand...

Recover with choice specs???

Although, I might just be theorymoning, but Blissey looks like a great partner. Jellicent brings a fighting immunity, while Blissey can pass big fat wishes, to heal Jellicent up for another round of water spout.
 
Recover could work. I've used recovery moves on choiced pokes successfully (Latios, Staraptor, Scizor...) and it can be a little klunky, but pokes that can force switches easily can find time to use the move on free turns.

Jellicent forces switches by walling stuff, which would easily give you free turns to Recover. It's a great maneuver against stall teams, and prevents them from wearing you down.
 
This also brings in the suprise factor. Most people( like myself ) would think that it's either a Physical wall or Special wall the instant I see Jellicent. I was never expecting that Jellicent could 2HKO Ferro in rain. Damn.

I like the Recover idea. When they see Jellicent's power, they will come to, switch or stay? Then, with proper prediction, you could heal or get another surprise kill. Such a great pokemon. Great stuff shrang. Love the set.
 
Yeah, Recovery on a choice set is worthy of mention, if not just simply in the Additional Comments. This doesn't look like a bad set either, though I'll have to test it out to know its worth. Will you consider adding more Speed EVs as well?

On a related note, while I'm obsessing about Donphan, it can be a viable Rapid Spin user, and combined with Ferrothorn and Jellicent, it makes a decent defensive trio with them. It can even lure in opposing Jellicent and other Water-type attackers for Jellicent to recover off of with Water Absorb.
 
Would work well with something like Life Orb Heatran (outside of rain of course) since heatran can lure out and kill Gastrodon.

idk though. a lot of stuff is very strong in the rain with boosted stab hydro pumps :/
 
i dont agree with added recover to the set because running recover on a choice pokemon that is PURSUIT WEAK is an issue. obviously not every team runs a pursuit user but both scizor and ttar are very high in usage, and ttar averagely uses pursuit.

anyway thanks shrang for putting this up :D
 
Heh, I've used this set before and can say that it is a surprisingly good wallbreaker.

I think there should also be a mention of Choice Scarf somewhere, as Jellicent would be able to outspeed up to +natured base 111s. Even without specs, full powered Water Spout is nothing to scoff at.
 
shrang said:
Rotom and Starmie do NOT out damage with Hydro Pump, run some calcs and you'll see. Jellicent also works in the fact that it lures out certain poke on (see listed) and heavily damages them. Rotom and Starmie do not do that
Click to expand...
I imagine with a Life Orb they do.
 
Gastrodon is too common to ignore now, so I would say that Energy Ball is an actual legitimate option for coverage, even if slashed with Ice Beam.

I'm sorry SOMALIA. I really am.
 
NixHex said:
I imagine with a Life Orb they do.
Click to expand...

Modest Rotom-W's Hydro Pump in the rain vs Blissey: 37.85% - 44.55%

Nope, Water Spout is better.

- Anyway, I'll make Energy Ball the primary option in the last slot as well as putting in a few more teammates, I typed this up quite late last night and kind of forgot them. More Speed EVs is possible, but I personally don't think Jellicent should run any more than 84 Spe to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory. There's no point outspeeding Wobbuffet since you're Choice-locked anyway. You either kill Wobb or you die, nothing else, really.

- Recover in the last slot: Personally, I don't like it. Being locked into a recovery move is kind of dangerous, and if hazards are up, you're losing a portion of that next turn anyway. The only recovery I'd consider using on a choice set is Rest on Natural Cure Pokemon, since it heals EVERYTHING. I'll put Recover in AC.

- Choice Scarf is whole different set, IMO. It would probably be better if someone wrote up a separate set for it if it's proven to be useful.

- Just curious, I have an urge to call this set "Stupidest Shit Ever" o_0.
 
After playing with this set for a while, I can conclude that this is definitely a great set and effective lure. It's so fun to use too!!

Highlights of my testing: Doing 99% with a full hp Water Spout to a Conkeldurr without rain, killing a 80% Rotom switching in, luring in a Celebi and OHKOing with Shadow Ball and SR, 2HKOing countless Politoeds, and the list goes on.

Also I'm recommending Scald over Surf in the third slot, as I found myself using that a lot when I didn't have a full powered Water Spout available. Its burn chance also helped me a ton, and I imagine it would be more useful than Surf. Be sure to mention Starmie as a good spinner to help Jellicent, as it obviously helps keep entry hazards off the field to support Jelly, and Jellicent can support Starmie by luring in its counters and killing them, making it easier for Starmie to sweep. Again, this looks great, so...

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 
Alright, I'll slash Scald in as a secondary water attack, but I'm not convinced it should be the primary option just yet, since forgoing quite a bit of power just for 30% burn (which is nice) seems kind of counter-productive on a wallbreaking lure. I need some more opinions on this.

Noted Starmie in teammates.

Thanks for the approval wilson46.
 
Yeah this is definitely a cool set, and unlike other Water Spout / Eruption users, it can actually heal entry hazard damage.

QC APPROVED (2/3)
 
What does Shadow Ball hit that Ice Beam doesn't? I know this is late, but... apart from the increased damage from STAB, Ice Beam and Shadow Ball's coverage is a bit redundant with Water Spout.
It would make more sense to run Water Spout / Surf / Energy Ball / Ice Beam imo unless there are significant KOes gained by the STAB boost on Shadow Ball over Ice Beam.

EDIT: nvm i answered my own question, Shadow Ball hits Celebi and Latias harder and 2hkoes more reliably than Ice Beam.
 
shrang said:
Alright, I'll slash Scald in as a secondary water attack, but I'm not convinced it should be the primary option just yet, since forgoing quite a bit of power just for 30% burn (which is nice) seems kind of counter-productive on a wallbreaking lure. I need some more opinions on this.

Noted Starmie in teammates.

Thanks for the approval wilson46.
Click to expand...

On a Specs set, it really wants power - the 18% power difference between Surf and Scald really adds up. Scald would be more appropriate on a Scarf set imo, where it is already lacking power to begin with (although, Hydro Pump would be more desirable).
 
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