Jirachi (Calm Mind) (QC rejected - lock and archive)

This is mentioned in OO, but I think it deserves a full set.

[SET]
name: Ubers Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

EVs might need to be tweaked a bit. The EVs are the way they are because I originally started with a specially defensive set that evolved into this. It's a little weird to be using 252/252+ SpD on a Calm Mind set, but that 252/252+ SpD is important to Jirachi tanking the hits it's supposed to tank.

Why this set deserves to be on site
Jirachi's an excellent special wall, and walls a lot of stuff. But why stop there? Set up on them! This set sets up on and beats things like:

Scarf Palkia locked into Spacial Rend or (especially) Draco Meteor
Mewtwo in rain or without Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Ferrothorn
Special Dialga, especially in the rain
Scarf Kyogre locked into anything other than Water Spout or Surf
The two pink blobs
And so on.

The analysis at the moment says that Mewtwo can do a CM set better. That's true if you're aiming for immediate power, but Jirachi has several important things over Mewtwo:

1) Unpredictability. Jirachi could equally be using another set, like the Ubers Wish support set. Mewtwo is almost always going to be a special sweeper.
2) Serene Grace Thunder makes it a paralysis platform.
3) Typing! Steel typing is priceless in Ubers, and this particular typing gives it a 4x resist to Psychic. Important - it means you win CM wars against Mewtwo, Lati@s, Psychic Arceus, etc in addition to all the other CM Pokemon you already beat (like Kyogre).
4) Typing!! Thanks to that steel typing, you resist Dragon Tail, which means you set up all over Lugia and Giratina and co if they give up on Whirlwind / Roar. You are also immune to Toxic / Toxic Spikes.

A real drawback of this set is that your offensive power is meagre before you start boosting, but you do boost on a lot of things. The things you can't boost on, you can paralyze (hopefully you have Sub up from whoever you forced out). This Jirachi is not a sweeper, but a bulky stallbreaker + status platform.

[Set Comments]
- Best used in rain, gives Jirachi only one weakness.
- Thunder because of rain. It also has decent neutral coverage as well as the ability to paralyze stuff. Paralyzing offensive Pokemon is great, especially since you set up on most defensive Pokemon.
- Psyshock lets you win CM wars and is decent STAB, can use Water Pulse though.

[Additional Comments]
- I tried Doom Desire instead of Psyshock once. It wasn't too bad. 210 base power after STAB with 100% accuracy is not something to look down on, even with a bad offensive typing. You become completely walled by Groudon, who now sets up on you in addition to phazing you out, not to mention you are semi-useless outside of rain. But then again, Groudon already walks over Jirachi and you are beaten easily by Tyranitar as well, so ... the real loss is the risk of losing CM wars (first to crit wins) and to some extent Zekrom (who can't afford to be paralyzed).
- Naturally have something that resists Ground + preferably also resists Fire, in case it isn't raining.
- Toxic Spikes help a lot with wearing down Jirachi's main counters i.e. Groudon and Tyranitar, but conflicts with Thunder paralysis.

[Checks and counters]
- Groudon's high base HP + Defense means it shrugs off Psyshock. You can't hit it with Thunder either, and it brings the sun.
- Tyranitar is immune to Psychic and has high Special Defense to take Thunder. 70% accuracy on Thunder is no good, too, and Water Pulse base power is cut as well.
- Excadrill. Haven't faced any Ground Arceus yet, but I'd imagine it is a threat, too.
- Removing the rain. Without rain and the 100% accurate Thunder, not to mention the newfound Fire weakness on Jirachi, Pokemon like Ho-oh and Reshiram annihilate Jirachi.
- Generic phazing before Jirachi gets too dangerous. Dragon Tail does not work, but Whirlwind / Roar will force Jirachi out. Dialga and Giratina are particularly good at this; they take close to no damage from unboosted Psyshock / Thunder. There's a good chance Jirachi will leave paralysis as a parting gift, though.
 
Two things, number 1, you still are weak to fire, it's just diminished. Secondly, could Shadow Ball be slashed in with Substitute? That will help hit Psychic-Types super-effectively. Okay, so I thought of one more thing. Why do you have Water Pulse? It's completely, let me state that again, completely useless.
 
I'm guessing Water Pulse is for Thunder parafusion antics.

Oh, and Drizzle/Rain would cancel out Jirachi's Fire weakness, so he's right on that.
 
Should say that this Jirachi isn't meant to be a sweeper but rather a bulky stallbreaker + status platform + special wall to some extent.

There're a lot of things I'd love Jirachi could have, such as Wish, but there really is no room on that set. Losing CM removes the purpose of the set; you lose to many Pokemon you used to be able to set up on now (like Ferrothorn). Losing either of the two attacks has serious consequences for coverage, while losing Substitute means Ferrothorn beats you + you're vulnerable to Thunder paralysis, Scald burns, Dragon Tail phazing, etc.

As for Shadow Ball, it can be useful but the main Psychic types in the tier you already beat (you set up on all of them without Roar / Whirlwind [EDIT: OK, you can't set up on Deoxys-A], and your Psyshock > their Psyshock). Unboosted you don't hit hit Giratina and Giratina-O for much, while if you can boost on them then you can eventually kill them with Psyshock too.

If anyone wants to try Jirachi without building a new team here's the one I've been using:

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Darkrai @ Leftovers
Trait: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dark Void
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse

Wobbuffet (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 28 HP / 228 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Encore
- Safeguard
- Counter
- Mirror Coat

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Arceus-Drago (Arceus-Dragon) @ Draco Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 140 SDef / 116 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Recover
- Refresh

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
 

shrang

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Okay, I tried this set for a bit and I really think that Wish is better on this set than Substitute. When I used Substitute, it couldn't even get past Chansey. It did 19% with Flash Cannon at +4 (yea, I know I probably should have used Psyshock). Jirachi REALLY likes the recovery, and it's already immune to Toxic. With Wish, it can do what it normally does and pass Wishes while switching into stuff like Spacial Rend, while stall breaking if its counters are removed. Yes, you can now get Leech Seeded by Ferrothorn (who actually can't do anything else to Jirachi) and Dragon Tailed and such, but I really think that's a small price to pay.

And yeah, like Tobes said, remove Water Pulse. It's just WAY too weak. Wish / Calm Mind / Psyshock / Thunder would probably be the set I'm willing to use. Not going to approve this yet, I need to see if Wish is good enough for a set. It really appears that Jirachi is trying to do too much and it's probably not going to cope.
 
Deslashed Water Pulse. Trying to kill Groudon in sun and Tyranitar in sand with Water Pulse is like attacking Skarmory with Extremespeed ~_~

I can't believe in this set without Substitute. That move is crucial to setting up on Ferrothorn. Burns from WoW / Scald, paralysis from Thunder / TWave and phazing from Dragon Tail are all important things to avoid as well. It's vital that Ferrothorn doesn't Leech Seed imo. If you let him Seed you, then he WILL switch out to something that beats you + abuses the Leech Seed recovery while you are slowly...boosting... But if you have Substitute, you can threaten a paralysis on whoever comes in if nothing else. My Jirachi has been rather durable as well actually, although I agree the instant recovery can be very helpful.

I'd like more QC input before slashing Wish in.

Also FML so many people using Roar instead of Dragon Tail even on Pokemon that get STAB on it, wtf.
 

Fireburn

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This set screams outclassed by Steel Arceus. Steel Arceus is by far superior in every single stat and gets reliable recovery in Recover, a stronger STAB sweeping attack in Judgment, the ability to not care about any phazers with a faster Roar, and the same defensive qualities Jirachi brings to the table minus the neutrality to Fighting (But it also boasts resistances to Bug-, Ghost-, and Dark-type attacks).

This set isn't really capitalizing on any of Jirachi's unique assets (no Wish, not taking full advantage of Serene Grace without Iron Head, U-turn, etc.) and is merely just a weak attempt at sweeping, and it also can't beat any of Jirachi's standard checks it seems. :/

I just don't think this is worth it to be honest. Like shrang said, this Jirachi is trying to do too much without enough resources.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
On the other hand that weakness to Fighting means Steel Arceus is threatened by Mewtwo (35.1% - 41.4% Aura Sphere non-LO at +0), is vulnerable to Ferrothorn since it has no Sub, and it doesn't get Psyshock =/

Also according to the analysis at the moment Jirachi's main counters are:

Kyogre, which is not a good matchup vs. CM Jirachi
Giratina, which loses to Jirachi unless it has Roar
Groudon and Garchomp, fair enough
Reshiram and Zekrom, both of which loathe Thunder paralysis
Ho-oh, who depending on situation may not be able to switch in well (SR up, raining, etc)
Dialga, who is set up on unless it has Roar or Bulk Up
Ferrothorn and Forretress, who are also set up on
And Skarmory, who dies to Thunder

But OK, you're the expert!
 
I don't see any reason to use this in Ubers. It might work once in a while but Jirachi is better off utilizing support options in Ubers, Wish, paralysis, U-turn and IronFlinch.

Kyogre still beats you one-on-one. Choice Specs Spout OHKOes you even when you are at +1.

Giratina can't touch the standard Ubers Jirachi either, Jirachi hates the burn but Jirachi can just U-turn out to a counter and it doesn't stop Jirachi from paralysing things and passing Wishes.

Reshiram and Zekrom gets 100% paralysed by Thunder Wave Jirachi, unless they are already statused. Thunder only paralyses 60% of the time if its raining. Also Thunder tickles both Dragons making the damage negligible.

Ho-Oh doesn't like Stealth Rock so much that Standard Ubers Jirachi can just U-Turn out to Kyogre as Jirachi outspeeds Ho-Oh. Also your Jirachi gives a free switch to Groudon who is almost always paired with Ho-Oh.

Support Dialga has Roar as one of its main moves, and Fire Blast still breaks your sub. How can you set up on it? As far as I know, Dialga loves carrying Fire Blast for Steel-types. Even -2 Fire Blast breaks your sub unless it's raining.

Skarmory survives unboosted Thunder and phazes you out. The Standard Ubers Jirachi can use Thunder over Thunder Wave anyway.

Steel Arceus still outclasses this set in the end, and what can Ferrothorn do to Steel Arceus? Ferrothorn will still lose in the long run assuming it is one-on-one. Fire Blast is still used on Mewtwo, and it is the main move for the analysis.

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
Maybe this set really is outclassed but I thought I'd point these things out first:

About Specs Kyogre - that's why you use Sub. If you're behind a Sub, you Thunder it. 60% chance of paralysis, you deal a decent chunk even without any boosts and you can decide to stay in or switch out accordingly (it gets a weaker Water Spout too). If Kyogre isn't using much speed (seems standard on Specs Kyogre) you outspeed as well.

Giratina doesn't really hurt any of the Jirachi sets (aside from I guess phazing as Jirachi wishes so the pass doesn't reach the intended target) so I'm not quite sure why it's listed as a counter. Maybe because it can CM? In which case CM Jirachi beats CM Giratina.

Min SpA Dialga Fire Blast vs. 252/252+ Jirachi in the rain: 22.3% - 26.2%. If Dialga is staying in Jirachi can CM on it. Jirachi outright beats non-Roar special Dialga in rain. Roar sucks, though.

Skarmory does survive unboosted Thunder and can phaze out, but it must count the costs of doing so. Lugia survives Scarf Zekrom's Bolt Strike and can phaze, but I'd hardly consider it a counter.

Ferrothorn can Leech Seed Steel Arceus and then switch out ... it can for example bring in Specs Kyogre who'll have a constantly-powered up Water Spout as a result. It can also TWave, and Arceus doesn't get Leftovers recovery so it'll have to Recover often.

Finally about Mewtwo: SpD Jirachi in the rain is an excellent check to Mewtwo, Fire Blast or no. LO Mewtwo's Fire Blast vs. +1 Jirachi in rain: 22.8% - 27.2%, so you can't bring Mewtwo into Jirachi. I would personally bring Jirachi into Mewtwo at once. If Mewtwo stays in, it's risking a paralysis from Thunder.

PS: Also thought I'd say this Jirachi dismantles Drown All if Dialga goes down (or if you start using Dragon Tail instead of Roar on Dialga - which you should lol, it gets STAB!) :)
 

shrang

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I can't believe in this set without Substitute. That move is crucial to setting up on Ferrothorn. Burns from WoW / Scald, paralysis from Thunder / TWave and phazing from Dragon Tail are all important things to avoid as well. It's vital that Ferrothorn doesn't Leech Seed imo. If you let him Seed you, then he WILL switch out to something that beats you + abuses the Leech Seed recovery while you are slowly...boosting... But if you have Substitute, you can threaten a paralysis on whoever comes in if nothing else. My Jirachi has been rather durable as well actually, although I agree the instant recovery can be very helpful.
The problem is that you are REALLY hard pressed to beat Ferrothorn anyway. Jirachi is just so damn weak. IF Jirachi is to use Calm Mind, it is still a support Pokemon first and foremost. Wish not only heals Jirachi and makes it more durable, but also supports the rest of the team. It's a bit like Swords Dance Scizor, if you will. Something like 80% of the metagame walls SD Scizor. It's not effective because it can sweep well, but it's useful because it is a Pokemon that can support the team, while not being complete dead weight because it can be threatening in the right conditions. You might beat Ferrothorn (which this is even uncertain depending on what state Jirachi was in before it tried to set up), but you lose to so many other things.

And yeah, as the others have pointed out, why are we bothering to use this when there is something like 10x more efficient in Steel Arceus? I guess you could make the argument that it frees up another Arceus form slot, but since Steel Arceus is one of the best forms out there, it's no big deal. You're not using any of the qualities that make Jirachi viable. You're not using Wish, you're not running U-turn or abusing its Speed or Trick, while Thunder is the only attack you're abusing with Serene Grace. Even that is fairly useless when you consider what its common switch-ins are (Groudon, Garchomp, Ground Arceus Ferrothorn who you will be spending at least 80% of your health setting up Subs on). I played with Jirachi and it even hard trouble beating Chansey since it couldn't set up quickly enough as Seismic Toss was 2HKOing your Subs. You can sort of accept this kind of set on Manaphy, since it gets rain boost and HydraRest, but Jirachi is just trying to do too much.

So yeah, that considered, I'm going to reject. Better luck next time.

QC REJECTED (3/3)
 

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