Battle Spot [Johto Classic] Infinity's TactiSand

[cant say]

~~~
Infinity's TactiSand​

So in preparation for the upcoming Johto Classic played over Battle Spot next week, I've been playing around with a few silly strats on the PS! ladder to try and see what everyone else is using and figure out meta trends etc. etc... I was using a version of this team with Assist Sneasel but came across the team that Battle Spot room regular infinitymkds was using and figured I had it all wrong, Persian was the answer instead! This team is heavily influenced by what infinitymkds has been running, but I think I've managed to change this one up enough to be my own. Basically, the team has two cores, and you choose which one to use at team preview. Now we all know that team preview is a delicate art that no one can really explain, but the simplest idea is 'use Persian unless they have Espeon and a bunch of priority users"

Teambuilding Process:

I started with infinity's core, he used Parasect but I don't really like Parasect's non-Assist moves and figured Smeargle was better.

I then had to come up with another 3-Pokemon core that could work on its own. infinity was using sand so I thought about using rain, but that lost to Venusaur which stops Spore so it defeats the purpose of having a separate core. I then tried to run sun but Venusaur lost to Espeon, Ninetales sucks, and I wasn't really feeling Exeggutor. I then went to sand..

Choosing the last slot was hard. I tried Aerodactyl for a bit because of his great speed which allowed for easy revenge killing / cleaning up the match, but he died too easily to both Azumarill and Scizor. I tried Magneton, and still slot him in every now and then, to counter Scizor and check Azumarill, but it left me very weak to Quagsire (I use HP Fire for Scizor, so HP Grass isn't available). This left me with Nidoking, who's great coverage allows me to kill a lot of stuff.

Then, possibly the most important part, I strategically chose some to be shinies and arranged them in the most ~aesthetic way possible.

Now, the sets!

Persian @ Leftovers
Ability: Unnerve
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 164 HP / 92 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Assist
- Substitute
- Swagger / Nasty Plot
- Foul Play / Hyper Voice

Pretty self-explanatory, Assist is used to grab Spore, use Sub when they're asleep, Swagger them when you're safe behind a Sub, repeat the process when they wake up and either wait for them to KO themselves with confusion or bop them with Foul Play. If using the Nasty Plot version then it's obviously the same except you rely on Hyper Voice to KO the foe. HP EVs hit a leftovers number, max speed with the rest in Def to help with priority attacks. If using Nasty Plot, move the defense EVs to SpA for a bit more oomph.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash / Custap Berry
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore / Dark Void
- Counter / Endure
- Mirror Coat / King's Shield
- Destiny Bond

Assist-enabler number 1. The only move(s) that Assist can call is Spore (or Dark Void). The rest are totally filler. Sash with CounterCoat allows Smeargle to actually do something if it comes onto the field. Endure + Custap can be used to ensure you get the Destiny Bond off though, with King's Shield dropping the attack stat of a troublesome attacker. I use both sets about the same amount, not really sure which is best, I think Sash + CounterCoat is though as it can be used to win in a 1v1 situation. Dark Void is an option to hit Grass-types but the accuracy blows.

Ditto @ Choice Scarf / Focus Sash
Ability: Imposter
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform
-
-
-

Assist-enabler number 2. Ditto fills out the 3-mon core so that Assist is guaranteed to call Spore every time you use it. Ditto also isn't dead-weight, as it can take advantage of attack boosts from Swagger to sweep a team. Item choice depends on what Smeargle you run, I like Sash Ditto as it allows for flexibility, but since Smeargle requires the Sash for its best set, Scarf is the default option.

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Foul Play
- Ice Beam

Here comes the second core, Ttar sets the sand for Sandslash to sweep. Thunder Wave is the best move in the game so it goes on the set by default. Stealth Rock is purely for breaking sashes and Sturdy of sand-immune mons, and (Safety Goggles) Dragonite's Multiscale. Foul play seems odd, but it takes advantage of things like Gyarados and Dragonite that try boosting in front of you, and allows for a Bold Nature instead of Relaxed. Ice Beam bops Dragonite, and puts enough hurt on Skarmory and Donphan for Sandslash to sweep them.

Sandslash @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

The sweeper. Sandslash is actually pretty damn fast in a sandstorm and hits pretty hard too! Moves I think are self-explanatory. EVs allow you to outspeed Electrode (naturally fastest in the format), +1 Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados, and +1 Jolly Feraligatr. Life Orb was chosen because Sandslash needs the immediate power (and 100 base attack isn't exactly amazing).

Nidoking @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earth Power

The cleaner. Designed to simply kill something when Tyranitar and Sandslash have gone down (because in a perfect world they've taken down one thing each). He is also there to kill the Unaware mons, as they're both really annoying for this team; Sludge Bomb for Clefable, and Hidden Power Grass for Quagsire. Yes, HP Grass only hits Quag. What else should I do to beat it? Straight-forward EVs, hit hard and fast.

Threats:

These guys kill me. They have priority so they can bop Persian before it can put them to sleep, and they beat the sand core as well.

Can't use Spore or Swagger against it and Foul Play is a 3HKO. Sandslash can easily beat it though if sand is up, but a well played Espeon is annoying.

Doesn't care about Spore so you have to hope for Swagger roles so you can get a Sub up and beat it. The sand core doesn't like it either unless you manage to beat it with Nidoking.

So Persian doesn't really care, only if Politoed has Perish Song. The rain definitely beats the sand core though so you've gotta bring Persian and hope for the best.

Just anti-leads my whole team. I have no answer for this, luckily people aren't using it a low in favor of Machamp. But whenever it pops up I lose.

Jolly outspeeds Sandslash at +1, and OHKOes everything. Persian can put to sleep if it hasn't boosted and Swagger it, and use Ditto to take advantage though.

Scarf pretty much beats the whole team.

That's all I can think of right now, there's probably (definitely) more that I'm missing. The thing with this team is that it flat out beats some/most teams, but completely loses to others. You just gotta hope you run into more of the former! For example, I was mid 1400s on the PS ladder, but now I've been running into a lot of teams with both Scizor and Azumarill, and bombed back to the 1200s. I'm wondering how this will fair in the actual competition though..

Importable

Nidoking @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earth Power

Persian @ Leftovers
Ability: Unnerve
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 164 HP / 92 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Assist
- Substitute
- Swagger
- Foul Play

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Foul Play
- Ice Beam

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform
-
-
-

Sandslash @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Destiny Bond

edit:

1. changed Sludge Bomb > Wave.
2. changed Smooth Rock > Chople Berry

 

[6tennis]

At the very least, run Expert Belt on Nidoking so that you can stay in and switch moves. For Hitmonlee, it'll probably always lead, so you can counter with Nidoking, I guess. Smeargle and Ditto beat Gyarados. They're still all threats tho, so you should leave them on there. Also, if going Sand, you can actually run Ditto over Nidoking in some MUs just to fake people out, and to revenge-kill annoying stuff that you weakened with Sandslash.

 

[Omastar68]

248+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 331-391 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

248+ SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 255-301 (126.2 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So...why does Nidoking have HP Grass. I mean, EP kills by a very wide margin already...

Also, Limber is better for Persian than Unnerve. It is useless when paralyzed, so an ability that prevents that is better than stopping foes from eating berries.

Other than that I'm not too sure...but both of these things are pretty obvious TBH. I mean I wouldn't say anything if you were new, but you're really smart so I'm not sure what this is about. I'm not trying to be rude, just blunt(which you've been with me every time, and I appreciate that.)

EDIT: Nidoking is Sheer Force so you want Sludge Wave not Bomb, the effect is negated(are you getting enuff rest?) I should also say what I think is good over HP Grass. T-bolt really seems to fit your team, as it gets Azu and Gyara in particular.

Nothing else makes much sense if you're not gonna go mixed. Shadow Ball is quite a bit weaker than the other moves, and meh coverage in general. Focus Blast is somewhat nice, but gets none of the threats to ur team, and has poor accuracy. There's also the fact that many times you'd wanna use FB STAB Earth Power would do more.

 

[Scribls]

Unnerve + Persian is pretty nasty (lum berry need not apply); Focus sash + magic guard Alakazam seems like a problem for most of this team if it has focus miss and gets a little lucky.

It outspeeds Persian and OHKOes with Focus Blast, same with Ditto on a switch-in. I presume a Smeargle lead would go pretty well unless Zam is running Taunt (possibly as a lead but I haven't seen it really)

For the sand team it OHKOes a non heavily SpDef invested (or Chople) Tyranitar (like yours) with Focus blast, OHKOes Sandslash with Psychic (sash keeps it alive for slash's attack), and it OHKOes Nidoking by outspeeding.

How have you dealt with Alakazam previously? It seems like a pretty common mon and a decent all-purpose lead in most situations to me

 

[Omastar68]

I guess Unnerve Persian makes some sense. Haven't actually played this meta, maybe berries are more common than I'd expect. Still, and I quote, "Thunder Wave is the best move."

Seems like at the very least it could go either way.

 

[Xander of Nohr]

248+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 331-391 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

248+ SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 255-301 (126.2 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So...why does Nidoking have HP Grass. I mean, EP kills by a very wide margin already...

Also, Limber is better for Persian than Unnerve. It is useless when paralyzed, so an ability that prevents that is better than stopping foes from eating berries.

Other than that I'm not too sure...but both of these things are pretty obvious TBH. I mean I wouldn't say anything if you were new, but you're really smart so I'm not sure what this is about. I'm not trying to be rude, just blunt(which you've been with me every time, and I appreciate that.)

EDIT: Nidoking is Sheer Force so you want Sludge Wave not Bomb, the effect is negated(are you getting enuff rest?) I should also say what I think is good over HP Grass. T-bolt really seems to fit your team, as it gets Azu and Gyara in particular.

Nothing else makes much sense if you're not gonna go mixed. Shadow Ball is quite a bit weaker than the other moves, and meh coverage in general. Focus Blast is somewhat nice, but gets none of the threats to ur team, and has poor accuracy. There's also the fact that many times you'd wanna use FB STAB Earth Power would do more.

I have no idea what the fuck is up those calcs, but Nidoking does NOT grab the KO on Quagsire with Earth Power; I've been consistently using Quag and it can always take atleast one hit, barring a crit.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 152-179 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Unnerve prevents the Lum Berry proc which is just a big 'fuck you' to this Persian. Limber is the pointless ability, not Unnerve; Persian shouldn't be switching into anything anyways, plus most of the time it'll be trying to hide behind a sub where it is perfectly safe from status moves. Not to be 'rude' but the only obvious thing here is that you missed all that somehow.

 

[Scribls]

I have no idea what the fuck is up those calcs, but Nidoking does NOT grab the KO on Quagsire with Earth Power; I've been consistently using Quag and it can always take atleast one hit, barring a crit.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 152-179 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Unnerve prevents the Lum Berry proc which is just a big 'fuck you' to this Persian. Limber is the pointless ability, not Unnerve; Persiam is obviously his lead so it won't be switching into anything anyways, plus most of the time it'll be trying to hide behind a sub where it is perfectly safe from status moves. Not to be 'rude' but the only obvious thing here is that you missed all that somehow.

Not sure where he is pulling calcs from either - but this is what I got (OP is running choice specs not life orb...)

248+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 171-202 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

This is with a standard relaxed/unaware Quagsire (both mons at level 50); meanwhile HP grass runs:

248+ SpA Choice Specs Nidoking Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 236-280 (116.8 - 138.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Grass has utility here to guarantee OHKO on Quagsire I suppose

Edit: Changed SpA from 252 to 248 so that it is the final official damage calc

 

[NOVED]

248+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 331-391 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

248+ SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 255-301 (126.2 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So...why does Nidoking have HP Grass. I mean, EP kills by a very wide margin already...

Also, Limber is better for Persian than Unnerve. It is useless when paralyzed, so an ability that prevents that is better than stopping foes from eating berries.

Other than that I'm not too sure...but both of these things are pretty obvious TBH. I mean I wouldn't say anything if you were new, but you're really smart so I'm not sure what this is about. I'm not trying to be rude, just blunt(which you've been with me every time, and I appreciate that.)

EDIT: Nidoking is Sheer Force so you want Sludge Wave not Bomb, the effect is negated(are you getting enuff rest?) I should also say what I think is good over HP Grass. T-bolt really seems to fit your team, as it gets Azu and Gyara in particular.

Nothing else makes much sense if you're not gonna go mixed. Shadow Ball is quite a bit weaker than the other moves, and meh coverage in general. Focus Blast is somewhat nice, but gets none of the threats to ur team, and has poor accuracy. There's also the fact that many times you'd wanna use FB STAB Earth Power would do more.

You need to watch what you're clicking on when you calc. You used the Randbats set on Nidoking which is at level 77. So you're calcing level 77 v level 50. I was able to replicate it here:
248+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 331-391 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Didn't you notice all the EVs in the calc were set to 84?

 

[Omastar68]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 172-204 (85.1 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 172-204 (85.1 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I had Nidoking at level 77 lol cuz I stupidly just clicked return after typing it's name in the BSS calc and didn't change level. Also why it was LO. So sorry. Still tho, HP Grass doesn't seems that useful. Even if Nidoking misses the OHKO on Quag, which it prolly will, it can go for the 2hko cuz Quag won't kill with EQ unless it's some weird more offensive set which wouldn't make sense. Plus forcing a 30 SpA is no fun. It's a 1 point drop in SpA, but that can make a lot of difference.

Persian I will concede the point. Unnerve makes sense, especially with sub. I guess I was thinking too much about how Unnerve is like never used normally, and paralysis is such a prominent status in every meta.

Sludge Wave>Sludge Bomb can't be argued with tho on a Sheer Force mob like King. I mean it's a small thing, and there's even a chance cant say is using Wave and typed the wrong one.

Anyways really really sorry XD. I guess part of it is also I'm sorta bored and trying too hard to find something to fix and cant say has never made an RMT that I'm aware of...so I got carried away.

Also, I'm not clear on the reasoning for Persian over Sneasel since the latter also has Assist. Their Speed is the same, and Sneasel's quite a bit bulkier on both sides with Eviolite, and not much frailer even without.

The fighting weakness is big, but it's not like Persian takes any reasonably strong fighting attacks anyways. Sneasel also has a somewhat good ability in Inner Focus. Unnerve is better I think, but not by so much that I think it's the selling point.

Most importantly Sneasel has some offensive presence with an ok base 95 Atk. I mean is the logic really just that someone else uses it?

 

[Omastar68]

You need to watch what you're clicking on when you calc. You used the Randbats set on Nidoking which is at level 77. So you're calcing level 77 v level 50. I was able to replicate it here:
248+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 331-391 (163.8 - 193.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Didn't you notice all the EVs in the calc were set to 84?

Double post, sorry. I did notice that, I just wasn't even thinking about level cuz I'm so used to things being level 50. I just changed the SpA is all. I'm actually sorta surprised EP has such a low chance to OHKO Quag with max SpA and specs.

EDIT: Prolly why I wasn't thinking about the level, cuz the calc didn't seem that surprising.

 

[cant say]

Sneasel would never use Eviolite on the same set. Both want Leftovers so that you can keep setting up Substitutes when you get unlucky with repeated 1-turn sleep rolls, and the Assist-Spore set sits on the field for so many turns that Leftovers is great. Just like Klefki would use Leftovers on a SwagPlay set in BSS...

re: Sneasel vs Persian

Like I said, I did have Sneasel in the first version of this team, Swords Dance + Knock Off does work pretty well, but I just much prefer using SwagPlay as it makes Ditto that much deadlier. And if you're gonna use SwagPlay then Persian wins by default with slightly better bulk. Most importantly though; Unnerve is a huge point in Persian's favour, because if something has a surprise Lum Berry on that first Assist turn of the game then your lead (no matter which it is) is likely dying and the whole strat falls apart before it even starts.

I guess Sneasel does have Inner Focus, which would improve my Hitmonlee matchup a lot, being able to take the Fake Out and AssistSpore him back, but then actually beating the Hitmonlee becomes tricky as its then faster thanks to Unburden. I guess the play is to Swagger it before setting the Sub, then set the Sub on the second sleep turn, Hitmonlee then either a) wakes up, fights through confusion and KOes you, b) wakes up but hits in confusion, or c) stays asleep while you get a sub. The problem though is that you can't even revenge with Ditto because Unburden > Scarf....

Sneasel also has Keen Eye to avoid evasion cheese but I guess that's why infinity was using Swift Persian, lol.

tl;dr - Persian > Sneasel because better bulk, Unnerve, and pulls off SwagPlay better.

Also yep the Sludge Bomb > Wave was a total blunder by myself, whoops!

Unnerve + Persian is pretty nasty (lum berry need not apply); Focus sash + magic guard Alakazam seems like a problem for most of this team if it has focus miss and gets a little lucky.

It outspeeds Persian and OHKOes with Focus Blast, same with Ditto on a switch-in. I presume a Smeargle lead would go pretty well unless Zam is running Taunt (possibly as a lead but I haven't seen it really)

For the sand team it OHKOes a non heavily SpDef invested (or Chople) Tyranitar (like yours) with Focus blast, OHKOes Sandslash with Psychic (sash keeps it alive for slash's attack), and it OHKOes Nidoking by outspeeding.

How have you dealt with Alakazam previously? It seems like a pretty common mon and a decent all-purpose lead in most situations to me

I pretty much just fight them with the Persian core, since Alakazam is obviously never run alongside Espeon, and luckily enough I haven't seen them on the same team as several other threats to form much of a counter team. I usually lead with Persian unless I know they're gonna lead Zam, then switch Ditto in to take a Psychic / Focus Blast (which it tanks because it turns into Alakazam before being hit), and then I hit it with the best move possible. Ditto usually dies though, which is when I bring Smeargle in and they think I'm out of ideas, but then I just Mirror Coat them. If they Protect / Sub to scout then they normally switch out so they don't sack their Zam, in which case I sack Ditto and then usually Persian is infront of something that it can set up on... It's a bit of a bad matchup my way, maybe running Chople Ttar is something I should consider more seriously, as then I can T-Wave + Foul Play the Zam before bringing Sandslash in... It also stops Hitmonlee from anti-leading me by surviving Fake Out + High Jump Kick and crippling it with Thunder Wave and setting Stealth Rock before sacking!

 

[cant say]

update:

I've been testing Zapdos in place of Nidoking after friend Joint Cena pointed out how well it would fit on Skype, in hindsight it was glaringly obvious how well it fit with my problems with Scizor / Azumarill / Quagsire / everything else in my threatlist, maybe I was subconsciously blocking it out because it didn't fit with my team aesthetic, lol. Anyway, here's the set:

Zapdos @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Roost

Coverage to beat all the things I hate, with bulk to switch into them, an ability to annoy them, and goggles to a) look cool, and b) provide a really solid Venusaur and Smeargle check with their Spores (also ignoring sand damage is nice). This is where I tag Albus in the hopes I can work out a deal for his freshly SRed Zapdos hehe

 

[Omastar68]

update:

I've been testing Zapdos in place of Nidoking after friend Joint Cena pointed out how well it would fit on Skype, in hindsight it was glaringly obvious how well it fit with my problems with Scizor / Azumarill / Quagsire / everything else in my threatlist, maybe I was subconsciously blocking it out because it didn't fit with my team aesthetic, lol. Anyway, here's the set:

Zapdos @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Roost

Coverage to beat all the things I hate, with bulk to switch into them, an ability to annoy them, and goggles to a) look cool, and b) provide a really solid Venusaur and Smeargle check with their Spores (also ignoring sand damage is nice). This is where I tag Albus in the hopes I can work out a deal for his freshly SRed Zapdos hehe

If the SpA IV is 30, you may as well put those last 4 EVs in Spe.

Is HP Grass completely necessary tho? Wouldn't Toxic get rid of Quagsire and I guess Lanturn ok, while having other uses like Chansey in a last non scenario, and other specially bulky things good against the moves listed, like enemy Zapdos, Porygon2, Unaware Clefable, etc.

 

[cant say]

If the SpA IV is 30, you may as well put those last 4 EVs in Spe.

Is HP Grass completely necessary tho? Wouldn't Toxic get rid of Quagsire and I guess Lanturn ok, while having other uses like Chansey in a last non scenario, and other specially bulky things good against the moves listed, like enemy Zapdos, Porygon2, Unaware Clefable, etc.

I could have sworn I put the 4 in SpD, honest mistake...

I really don't want to have to play Toxic vs Toxic battles against Quagsire, I'd rather just dispatch of it quickly before taking too much from it, because then if I have health left (and a non-volatile status) I can continue beating things with Zapdos... Hidden Power Grass also hits Piloswine ever so slightly harder than Heat Wave and doesn't miss, and I need all the chip damage I can get on it so Sandslash can revenge it, it's also good for Donphan and Lanturn like you said. Although I haven't seen many of them, it does enough to Rhydon to allow for Sandslash to revenge with Earthquake too. Overall I prefer the offensive approach, especially when Zapdos doesn't want to get Toxiced itself...

 

[Omastar68]

I could have sworn I put the 4 in SpD, honest mistake...

I really don't want to have to play Toxic vs Toxic battles against Quagsire, I'd rather just dispatch of it quickly before taking too much from it, because then if I have health left (and a non-volatile status) I can continue beating things with Zapdos... Hidden Power Grass also hits Piloswine ever so slightly harder than Heat Wave and doesn't miss, and I need all the chip damage I can get on it so Sandslash can revenge it, it's also good for Donphan and Lanturn like you said. Although I haven't seen many of them, it does enough to Rhydon to allow for Sandslash to revenge with Earthquake too. Overall I prefer the offensive approach, especially when Zapdos doesn't want to get Toxiced itself...

Ok, I understand you on Toxic. Just good I got at least one thing right lol