Just a poison stall team.

Hello all, I used to frequent Shoddy Battle for a time a few years ago but sort of lost interest in competitive battling. Since the release of 5th gen I've been playing on and off, and after a little while I think I'm ready to post this team. It's brought me a reasonable amount of success particularly considering that I'm straight up terrible at actually battling.

That being said, there are still a few things I would consider changing. I don't have an ultra-defensive phazer/shuffler on the lines of Dragonite or Sigilyph, and I've been trying to think of a good way to incorporate that into my team but I just can't figure out where they would fit in. One last point which is fairly minor: I was running a different team for a while that was running a few Pokemon that had Toxic/Protect. I sort of enjoyed that combo and in many situations it worked out way better than I thought it would. Looking back at this team, it seemed like a Protect staller would go nicely with the Toxic Spikes theme, but again this is a minor point.

The point of the team is to wear opponents down over time with Toxic Spikes while Curse Ferrothorn sets up and does his totally indestructible magic.

Without further ado, my team at a glance:




A quick look would suggest that this is a fairly stall-oriented team. Such an assessment would be absolutely correct; it's how I like to play. Quick note: I discuss my experiences and doubts about each Pokemon in red.



"Fiber Jar"
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze

-Toxic Spikes
-Scald
-Rapid Spin
-Venoshock

Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 176 SpD / 16 Spe

Toxic Spikes is the reason Tentacruel shows up; it's the crux of how I do damage in a lot of cases. Rapid Spin support, while not super necessary for the team as only Sigilyph really has any issues with Stealth Rock, is always appreciable. Scald is always a nice choice, since spreading Burn is in general a great way to cripple things. Venoshock is chosen because of the emphasis the team has on Toxic Spikes. The reason that Tentacruel gets the illustrious place on the team instead of Drapion is because of its vastly better defensive synergy with Ferrothorn. Between the two of them and Heatran, they create an impressive defensive core to the team.

Doing a bit of searching around, I have also considered Nidoking or Nidoqueen for this position. Since I like to have TS in my lead position, Tentacruel ends up sometimes against boosting sweepers; he can be setup bait, especially for things like Cloyster. Both Nidoking and Nidoqueen can run TS with substitute/dragon tail, and Nidoking even has the added bonus of Megahorn.


"Metalmorph"
Ferrothorn @ Occa Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs

-Curse
-Gyro Ball
-Leech Seed
-Spikes

Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def / 252 SpD

The Man. Curse Ferrothorn can simply take down huge numbers of threats. Switch in on a Choiced pokemon or something which he utterly walls and begin setting up with Curse. Leech Seed adds longevity to his Curse mayhem as well as providing support down the line. Spikes does the same; I went for it over Bulldoze as the goal of the team is to draw out the game to be very long and to do a lot with hazard damage. Occa berry can let him take Fire surprisingly well; with a reasonable amount of health he can survive an individual Salamence Fire Blast.

In light of the switch from Zapdos to Sigilyph (now having another team member who can take physical hits well) I've switched Ferrothorn back to a specially defensive set. Even without a strong EV investment he can still take some very powerful physical hits, particularly after a Curse or two, and throw back an enormous Gyro Ball. I've made a surprising number of sweeps like this.



"Sanctuary"
Sigilyph @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard

-Whirlwind
-Stored Power
-Cosmic Power
-Roost

Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe

I recently replaced Zapdos on my team with Sigilyph and so far the results have been fairly impressive. Naturally he has a pretty hard time dealing with a team full of Dark types but nonetheless Sigilyph can make for an impressive defender. I opted not to go for Psycho Shift as it's likely that Pokemon will already be poisoned or burned coming in. Whirlwind lets me be extra annoying and push things that could give me trouble through the rocks a few times. Cosmic Power and Stored Power are the big guys on the set; Cosmic allows Sigilyph to become nigh invincible, and Stored Power can be quite strong even against things that resist it. Roost is obligatory recovery and also helps in stall wars when something is going for an electric or ice type SE hit. For those of you who have noted the Yugioh references in the names, having Sanctuary in the Sky and Necrovalley on the same team seems silly but hey, why not?

There's still plenty of room for tweaking on this set. Sometimes I sorely wish I could have Psycho Shift with Toxic Orb instead of Substitute, but other times the Leftovers recovery gives me just enough of an edge to keep me alive. It's a tricky balance and I'm not totally sure which one would be more favorable in the long run. Started running Whirlwind; I wouldn't say it totally solves the problem of Sigilyph getting totally walled by Dark types but it at least helps me avoid the issue.


"Lava Golem"
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire

-Stealth Rock
-Flamethrower
-Hidden Power Ice
-Roar

Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 44 SpA / 210 Spe

Excellent defensive synergy with Tentacruel and Ferrothorn, providing an annoying-as-hell Water/Fire/Grass trio that's quite hard to take down. He also switches in nicely on Excadrill. Stealth Rock and Roar are a big help on the team, as SR not only provides even further entry hazard damage, but Roar allows me to repeatedly push enemies through all the rocks and spikes. I had previously been running Lava Plume/Dragon Pulse, but after a few games of my team getting ripped to shreds by Taunt/SD Gliscor I thought I needed a better answer. Hidden Power Ice fits comfortably where Dragon Pulse used to be, and I swapped in Flamethrower simply because I never get Lava Plume to burn anything anyway and I was missing out on a lot of kills that I really should have been getting.

I've made some reasonably drastic changes to this set; Heatran is a great Pokemon and he fits nicely on the team but I just can't quite figure out what set I need, particularly with his EVs. Stealth Rock and Roar have quickly become staples of this team and I would hate to give them up, I just really don't know what EV set to run. I need this Heatran to be able to check Gliscor in some manner, because otherwise he can just run my whole team. So my question is this: keep up the specially defensive set? Or just go all out with the EVs for 252 SpA / 252 Spe?


"Necrovalley"
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy

-Rest
-Haze
-Hex
-Will-o-Wisp

Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SDef

Another way to help deal with a lot of physical threats, particularly Conkeldurr and Scizor. This means he's great at bailing Heatran out of nasty situations; Mummy is the main reason he's in the slot over Dusclops. Hex is in place of Shadow Ball because of the high likelihood of enemies being toxic'd or burned. Will-o-Wisp is a natural choice that complements Cofagrigus' already impressive physical bulk. Rest is a kind-of reliable recovery, and Haze is a good utility move that's surprisingly helpful on this set. Over time, Cofagrigus has proven to be perhaps the most reliable Pokemon on this team.

Cofagrigus is an excellent switch on all kinds of things. He's got insane physical bulk and his ability to take special hits is nothing to scoff at, either. Oddly enough Haze has been a big help in dealing with things like Cloyster, who are heavily reliant on setting up. However, set-up Pokemon sometimes give me trouble if Cofagrigus has already gone down, which ultimately led me to introduce Heatran (though I'm still not completely sure about his position as a phazer).


"TeleDad"
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil

-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Outrage
-Aqua Tail

Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Classic scarfed Chomp. Moveset and EVs are both totally standard stuff: EQ and Outrage for raw power, Dragon Claw to hit other Dragons without locking into Outrage, and Aqua Tail for Ground types. He's really not meant to sweep the whole opposing team, but to get kills here and there, knock off weakened opponents and come in for revenge. On this team he has tremendous utility to level the playing field if I wind up at an early disadvantage.

Garchomp is one team member that I almost certainly won't replace. He's an excellent revenge killer and has been extremely useful for sniping key threats time and time again. Much like Cofagrigus, he's proven to be very reliable in my play experience and I think he represents a core part of this team. I had been running Fire Blast instead of Aqua Tail but it almost never proved useful. More often than not it would end up getting me locked into an extremely weak move with middling accuracy, perfect switch in bait for all kinds of things.


"Rai-Oh"
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure

-Substitute
-Roost
-Thunderbolt
-Heat Wave

Nature: Timid
EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 Spe

Stall mania. Designed to hold out forever and let all the Toxic Spikes and Burn goodness go to work. Pressure stalling is a nice side effect of this as well, draining low PP moves quickly. Moveset is pretty standard: SubRoost for excessively annoying stall, Thunderbolt for a powerful STAB, and Heat Wave for good coverage/damage. Really he's a great switch in on all kinds of things, particularly Choice Scarfers who fire off an Earthquake or a resisted move. He represents sort of a utility, aside from being an excellent way to deal with Scizor. Speed EVs allow him to be one of the more offensive members of the team while still maintaining the ability to SubRoost and let Pressure drain their PP and the Toxic that they picked up sap their health.

Although Zappy is sitting on the bench he's hardly bad, and I'm not going to completely discount his viability on this team just yet. He's definitely still worth considering, as he can also come in on earthquakes like Sigilyph but poses a much more immediate threat; he also isn't forced to switch by Dark types.


The Bench is for past team members who haven't been totally rejected still.


Thanks in advance for taking the time to look over my team. I'm not an especially great player but this team has given me some modest success so I wanted to see what some better battlers would think of it. I would love to hear your suggestions about particular glaring weaknesses that you see.
 
Pokemon can not be affected by two status conditions. Therefore, running will-o-wisp on a team with toxic spikes would be useless.
 
However, pokemon like Thundurus and Zapdos who are immune to TS will appreciate no poison. switch WoW to Toxic on Cofagrigus for reliability.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Moderator
I disagree with you mudkip. Will o wisp is handy for poison and steel types as well as levitators and flying types, all of whom are immune to poison or unaffected by toxic spikes. Given the plethora of these types running around, having will o wisp gives you an additional way to cause residual damage. It's also a backup in case your spiker dies and the spikes get blown away.
 
I disagree with you mudkip. Will o wisp is handy for poison and steel types as well as levitators and flying types, all of whom are immune to poison or unaffected by toxic spikes. Given the plethora of these types running around, having will o wisp gives you an additional way to cause residual damage. It's also a backup in case your spiker dies and the spikes get blown away.
This was my logic in choosing WoW; it's useful to hit Flying types primarily. However, I would be willing to try out Toxic instead. This leads me to the question, however: is it still worth running Scald on Tentacruel and Lava Plume on Heatran?
 
I know he's not nearly bulky as Cofagrigus but you could try a Sub/Disable Gengar. He blocks Rapid Spin and should cause a lot of switches.
 
I know he's not nearly bulky as Cofagrigus but you could try a Sub/Disable Gengar. He blocks Rapid Spin and should cause a lot of switches.
The issue I have with this is that Gengar will have an awful hard time switching into attacks that he's not immune to. SubDisable seems like an insanely annoying set to be against, and I can certainly see why it's a good choice for the team and worth considering. Nevertheless I'm not so sure that I'd be willing to give up Cofagrigus for that. If, in the future, I find myself having problems with Cofagrigus I'll be sure to keep this set in mind. Thanks :)
 
Love the Yu-gi-oh references (lol didn't realise until "necrovalley") and CurseBall Natt... but why you say sassy 252/252 didn't work? I had a sassy Natt with ~148/252 (and some attack) and it did great, after 1 curse, it's defence is higher than it's S-def, so it works quite well...

I thought about your Zapdos thing, and came up with:

{insert badass picture here}
sigilyph @ Toxic/Flame Orb/Leftovers
Magic Guard
Timid
252 HP/200 def/56 spe
-Psycho Shift/Substitute
-Cosmic Power
-Stored Power
-Roost

You can either go for a recovery set with lefties, and risk the chance of thunder wave, or go for a flame orb set, and have roost as it's only recovery...
I added Substitute on top of Psycho shift as you already have a will-o-wisper/toxic spikes, so only fire/(fly/levi) pokes will need siggy, and all them are SR weak (hint hint)

aanyway, this thing can just sit in play and wait for the opponent to wear itself down from the T-spikes, but beware of pHazing!

that's my imput, I'd swap either CoFAGrius or Zapdos for this guy, (though (BAN ME PLEASE) can work as a spinblocker)

hope that helps!
 
Love the Yu-gi-oh references (lol didn't realise until "necrovalley") and CurseBall Natt... but why you say sassy 252/252 didn't work? I had a sassy Natt with ~148/252 (and some attack) and it did great, after 1 curse, it's defence is higher than it's S-def, so it works quite well...

I thought about your Zapdos thing, and came up with:

{insert badass picture here}
sigilyph @ Toxic/Flame Orb/Leftovers
Magic Guard
Timid
252 HP/200 def/56 spe
-Psycho Shift/Substitute
-Cosmic Power
-Stored Power
-Roost

You can either go for a recovery set with lefties, and risk the chance of thunder wave, or go for a flame orb set, and have roost as it's only recovery...
I added Substitute on top of Psycho shift as you already have a will-o-wisper/toxic spikes, so only fire/(fly/levi) pokes will need siggy, and all them are SR weak (hint hint)

aanyway, this thing can just sit in play and wait for the opponent to wear itself down from the T-spikes, but beware of pHazing!

that's my imput, I'd swap either CoFAGrius or Zapdos for this guy, (though (BAN ME PLEASE) can work as a spinblocker)

hope that helps!
Thanks so much for the good suggestions. It's entirely possible that issues I had with running a specially defensive EV set for Ferrothorn were a product solely of my own badness. Adding another Pokemon with a primarily physically defensive leaning in place of Zapdos might also help to balance that out a bit. I've been intrigued by Sigilyph and will definitely give this a shot. :)
 
Thread updated; I've swapped out Zapdos for Sigilyph (although Zapdos is still hanging out on the bench). Initial playtesting yielded solid results with Sigilyph.
 
In addition, the number of times I've been walled out by a Dark-type almost makes me want to run Miracle Eye over Sub. Almost.
You can always run Whirlwind on Sigilyph instead of Substitute. That way if a dark switches in you can just Whirlwind him out and keep going. Should help build up hazard damage too.
 
Made a handful of changes. After some playing I discovered a crippling weakness to Taunt Gliscor; I've since made some of changes to try and cover that. Running Whirlwind on Sigilyph was a solid idea, even though it only kinda helps with their Dark-types. As of right now I could really use some advice on the Heatran set.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top