Just Roll Over and Let It Drip Out (UU, peaked #1)

Ahoy, me mateys. I don't post here often, but if you play UU regularly chances are you've run into me (and this team will seem very familiar).

I know there are a lot of players who love to make new teams, playing around with different sets and combinations of Pokémon. But there are others who, like me, prefer to find a winning formula and stick with it, perhaps making minor changes as propriety demands. There is no team building process for this team; it is the result of over a year's tweaking and experimentation, and is virtually unchanged (save the addition of my Spinner) since Honchkrow dominated the skies of UU.

The team is not prepared for everything, not does it have a contingency for every threat. But it still seems to climb the ladder like a coked-up fireman, having gotten me to #1 twice (once in the current metagame, and once in the Cress/P-Z metagame), and into the top 10 more times than I can recall. I think the secret is a sort of "mass appeal" or safety net effect - every Pokémon on the team can take on a wide range of threats, while themselves having very few Pokémon that can stop them. So even if a sweeper I can't handle (see my threat list) chews though 2 or 3 members of my team before going down, the rest of the team can, more often than not, manage to hold their own against the other 5.

The Team Lineup



I'm not the kind of guy who tries to "win with my favourites," but the team happens to contain my two favourite Pokémon since the R/B era. Try to guess which ones they are.




Team-Building Process
As stated above, the team was built in a succession of small tweaks from older iterations of the team. Believe it or not the origins of the team are found in this gimmicky monstrosity:


...A BD Linoone team. The premise was sound: I would lure out Steels, Rocks, and Spiritomb with Swellow, trap them with Trapinch (Dugtrio had yet to drop), set up with dual screen + Memento Uxie, and sweep with Linoone. The team saw some success and prompted me to write both the Linoone and Trapinch analyses, though it was, by and large, still a gimmick. One day (after Dugtrio had dropped), for whatever reason, I decided to swap Swellow with Scyther, and stick Venusaur in there too.


What I found was that, though the team was dedicated to Linoone sweeps, most of my sweeps were actually coming from Scyther, who ran a hybrid set with both Swords Dance and U-turn. I decided to scrap the whole Linoone thing altogether and start anew...taking with me Scyther, Venusaur (who had proved extremely useful), and Clefable (whom I've never gone without, on any team). To patch up the team I added Donphan for Spinning, Arcanine for taking on Moltres (who was just becoming popular), and mono-attacker Spiritomb.


Then Alakazam and Rhyperior dropped, bringing the biggest base SpA and Atk, respectively, into UU. Why not add both? Alakazam was Specs, and Rhyperior was a bulky Leftovers set.


Alakazam, though a Froslass- and Ambipom-killing machine, was seeing far too many Spiritombs up front. I switched him with Rhyperior, whom I decided should also be allowed to 2HKO that chubby worm Milotic. (CB attached)


That's what my team looked like from 4 months up until a few days ago. It was only then, after I had topped the leaderboard a couple of times, that I finally caved and added a Spinner/special Fire resist. And there's only one of those out there. (praying for Tentacruel to drop)


Update: Since the team's been posted, Alakazam has been swapped out for Rotom, whose utility outweighs Zam's power.




In-Depth Analysis


Offensive Core


Rhyperior @ Choice Band
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant, Solid Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn
- Stealth Rock

Though CBperior is a poor match-up with most of the top 10 leads, most notably the #1 soon-to-be-BL, it has a couple advantages. First, it bluffs the usual SR-laying lead set, attracting both Trick and Taunt, while Rhyperior dishes out an oft-fatal hit. Second, it takes out bulky Spiking walls that stall teams often employ as leads. While staying in on Omastar or Cloyster is risky, few people run the Speed necessary to outpace me, and 19 times out of 20 I am rewarded with a free KO. If I know a lead Spiker DOES run Speed, I have a perfect switch-in in Venusaur, and the mind games of attacking as they Spike or switching as they Surf often seem to turn out in my favour.

I'm sure I don't have to explain CB Rhyperior's awesome destructive power outside of the lead position. Literally every single Pokémon in the tier is at least 2HKO'd if hit by the right move. Rhyperior is my main switch-in to Arcanine, Scyther, and Swellow, but it much prefers to come in on a revenge kill, or a support move from a wall. I don't bother playing with Electric-types unless they're clearly Choiced or Encored, since all of them have the tools to seriously hurt me.

Stealth Rock is the only move that stands out as unorthodox, and has been called a gimmick several times. But early-game, Rhyperior causes a lot of switches to healthy counters. While getting a massive 70% hit on Milotic is tempting, it's usually better for me to get down SR as I scout their immedite switch-in. It also allows Rhyperior to do something useful after it's been burned. As for the EVs, 252 Speed allows me to outpace everything base 70 and under that doesn't invest (and they usually don't). Speedy Rhyperior tramples stall.


Rotom @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- HP Ice
- Trick

Rotom patches up several holes in my team. Namely, he provides a much-needed Normal, Fighting, and Ground immunity, as well as an additional Flying, Electric, and Bug resistance, taking pressure off Rhyperior and Scyther, who cannot afford to take hits all day. He also counters Swellow and Scyther while revenge killing RP Torterra and DD Feraligatr. He takes Explosions and Rapid Spins like a good Ghost should, and keeps Trick as an option to disable something on a stall team.

Still in testing, HP Ice hasn't proven all too useful yet and may be replaced with Will-o-Wisp or something else. Item is under scrutiny too.


Alakazam @ Choice Specs
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid, Inner Focus
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Signal Beam
- Trick

Alakazam is a fantastic sweeper, cleaner, and revenge killer. Late-game, when the Spiritombs and Dugtrios and all the other bad things have gone away, Alakazam wins games. Specs give it unmatched special attacking power, and along with Psychic's decent neutral coverage it can pluck the life from a lineup of weakened team members.

The moves are quite obvious. Psychic STABs, Focus Blast coverages, Signal Beam hits Spiritomb (albeit for little) and is more reliable than Focus Blast against Dark-types, and Trick makes Registeel and Chansey sad. Inner Focus was chosen over Synchronize since paralysis renders Alakazam useless anyway, non-Toxic poison kind of sucks, and very few physical attackers are going to use Will-O-Wisp without being Fire-types themselves. Inner Focus, meanwhile, lets me kill cocky Technitops and Hariyamas.

One of Alakazam's biggest criticisms is its inability to switch in, due to its paper defenses and lack of immunities. Clefable's Encore helps remedy that to an extent, especially with its tendency to bring in Fighting-types and things like Donphan. Alakazam also likes to switch in on Trick, and the team as a whole lends itself to double switches which Alakazam loves to capitalize on.




Scyther @ Life Orb
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly, Technician
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break
- Quick Attack

Most teams are Scyther weak. After a Swords Dance, and using the standard moveset, Scyther outspeeds and OHKOs about 70% of the tier without any effort. Of the remaining 30%, about 80% of those are KO'd at 60-70% HP, making them shaky counters at best. What I'm trying to convey is that Scyther is a rapist.

Scyther is highly opportunistic and can usually snag a SD on a switch-out. While his typing is often regarded as terrible and weakness-ridden, it also boasts an immunity and two x4 resists which are all fairly common in UU. Oftentimes I can switch into an Earthquake, Energy Ball, Superpower, Close Combat, etc., take <30%, and snag a revenge kill. If these attacks are Choiced or Encored, Scyther gets a free SD. The same goes for CM- or NP-locked Pokémon (Mismagius especially) that refuse to switch out of Clefable. Predicted Sucker Punches, especially when either Scyther or the opponent is weakened, are another prime setup opportunity. With opponents secure in their ability to one-shot Scyther, or get off a last priority hit before being revenged, I can usually SD with impunity, then finish the enemy with Quick Attack. If I feel they are suitably psyched out, or I don't think they expect me to pack my own priority, I can SD twice, which is usually good game.


Defensive Core


Venusaur @ Black Sludge
252 HP / 188 Def / 68 Spe
Bold
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb
- Leaf Storm

I love support Venusaur. It's the quintessential Grass-type: a utilitarian nightmare that annoys the hell out of its opponents with status and residual damage.

Venusaur's great synergy is a major reason it finds itself on more UU teams than any other Pokémon, and this team is no exception. With physically defensive EVs, Venusaur provides a good Fighting resist while SR keeps Scyther in its pen, and takes on Azumarill like no other. Venusaur comes in easily on things that switch into Rhyperior's Stone Edge: Water-, Ground-, Fighting-, and Grass-types.

Sleep-Seed is pretty standard, and does a number on stall if they lack a Grass-type. A seeded enemy is really helpful for healing a little residual damage off of Rhyperior or Scyther. Sludge Bomb provides consistent damage with decent neutral coverage. Leaf Storm is my trump card, hitting Grass-weaks like Donphan and Azumarill that the opponent keeps in if he thinks me without Grass STAB. The EVs and nature are designed to maximize physical bulk while outspeeding 252 Spe Adamant Torterra and the Milotics that EV to outspeed them.

Black Sludge over Leftovers. I don't care what the experts say - Black Sludge punishes Trick users far more than it gives them another opportunity to cripple my team, since both Venusaur and Clefable like getting the item, while the two Choiced Pokémon don't mind locking the Trick user into Trick.



Blastoise @ Leftovers
252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
//- Roar
//- Rest
- Foresight
- Ice Beam

The newest addition to the team - the only roster change since the team was made, in fact. As such its set is the least polished on the team, and the one most needy of advice.

Rapid Spin is the reason Blastoise is here in the first place. Surf is a given, a nice reliable STAB. I chose Roar because, despite Clefable denying most setups, my team could use real phazing as well, especially against things like DD Gatr. Rest is mainly a filler that I've only used a few times, and could definitely be replaced. (Why doesn't Blastoise learn Recover like a good bulky water?) I've been considering Ice Beam, Foresight, Toxic, and even things like Mirror Coat in place of Rest, and perhaps Roar too. The Speed EVs allow Blastoise to outspeed max speed neutral nature base 50s (particularly Adamant Aggron) and the pokes that EV to outspeed them, while the rest pump its SpD. I chose to make Blastoise specially bulky to better counter Moltres and Houndoom, who give me grief, as well as to take hits from special attacking Ghost switch-ins. Even without Def EVs he can still take a +2 EQ from Feraligatr, whom I have trouble with otherwise. Foresight and Ice Beam now take the place of Roar and Rest. Ice Beam has proved exceptionally useful so far, so I may keep it as a permanent fixture.

Blastoise replaces mono-attack Spiritomb, who, while giving me a win condition against players who didn't know what they were doing, didn't seem to be supporting the team or posing much of a threat to good players. However, now that Tomb is gone, the team feels like it's full of holes. I have no good Alakazam or Explosion switch-in, no secondary Swellow check, no sleep absorber, and no spinblocker. However, I do have Spin, phazing, and insurance against Fire-types and physical Water-types. I guess you can't have it all.



Clefable @ Flame Orb
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful, Magic Guard
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

Encore Clefable is far and away the most reliable fallback Pokémon I've ever used. She's also a gigantic cunt. A good 2/3rds of teams I face have trouble getting past Clefable, and against an unprepared foe she can disable and dismantle an entire team. She switches in on almost any special attack, status move, or slow support/setup move and starts being annoying. When things get hairy, Clefable is usually the last Pokémon alive, and sometimes singlehandedly takes down half a team of healthy pokes to win me the game.

Clefable is MVP most matches, because she has the chops to wreck every playstyle out there. Against offense she spreads paralysis and prevents setup. Against stall she renders walls useless and cannot be killed. She rules Hail and Sand, being immune to weather damage and using Encore to nullify Curse Cradily/Regirock and Stallrein. She is also my best response to Rain teams, as T-Wave ruins every Swift Swimmer out there.

The moveset is pretty standard. T-wave and Encore work in tandem to shut down anything trying to use non-offensive or tankable special moves. Softboiled is obvious. Seismic Toss provides decent consistent damage, though, like Chansey, Celfable would give her left egg to be able to harm Ghosts. The EVs provide maximum special tankage, while Flame Orb blocks status and can make physical sweepers a little reluctant to switch in, for fear of Trick. Fun fact: I've used the same Clefable, with the same moves and virtually unchanged EVs, on every UU team I've played with since before the BLs dropped. It has never left me disappointed or failed to fit seamlessly into a metagame.

Clefable has few enemies. Bulky Ground-types and Fighters are usually dispatched by Venusaur; Fighting-types are also great switch-in opportunities for Scyther. Taunt Mismagius is Clefable's bane - in fact the bane of my team - and I just have to hope Alakazam can either Trick it or (if it's weakened) kill it.



A Not-So-Comprehensive Threat List
Swellow, Scyther: Both lay waste to my entire team. Rhyperior lacks Leftovers and defensive EVs and thus can't wall U-turns all day. Scyther pretty much OHKOs my team after a SD, though if I'm lucky I can win the speed tie with my own Scyther's Quick Attack and take him down to a level where LO recoil kills him. My best defense against these flying rapists would be SR, though I have neither a reliable SR-layer nor a spinblocker.

Other Normal-types: Besides Swellow, a few other powerful Normal-types lay waste to my team. Kangaskhan, Tauros, and Ursaring are all big threats, for the same reason that my only Normal resist doesn't have any kind of recovery. What's worse, all three of these Pokémon have ways to hit Rhyperior super-effectively. Thankfully they're not very common.

RP Torterra/Aggron/Rhyperior: If my team is sufficiently weakened, these monsters steamroll me. Venusaur at 60%+ HP can take a single EQ from LO Torterra but nothing more, and has trouble dealing serious damage back. LO Aggron similarly doesn't OHKO Venusaur with Head Smash, but it comes very close, and together with Aqua Tail can spell my doom. LO Rhyperior doesn't OHKO Venusaur or Blastoise, but nonetheless can take them out at 60% and 80% respectively. Thankfully, none of these threats can set up easily on most of my Pokémon, save poorly Choice-locked pokes, though Clefable may have to risk a OHKO in order to Encore a possible setup. Banded versions of these sweepers are not as common but about twice as deadly; thankfully, they're easily exploited once they're locked, and I rarely lose more than one Pokémon to them.

Blaziken: I always dread this guy showing up. If he had one viable set, I could handle it, but between LO mixed, SD, Agility, and all 3 Choice options, I am most likely going to lose something. My best bet is to switch Blastoise in on a fire-type attack, then go to Scyther on the Superpower/HP Grass. However, if Blaziken SDs or hits me with a Choiced Fighting STAB, Blastoise could be toast. If Blaziken is Scarfed and Blastoise is down, the rest of my team is vulnerable. And if the half of my team that can take him on (Scyther, Blastoise, Zam) has fallen, LO Blaziken easily sweeps the rest.

Other Fire-types: Blaziken is the most dangerous, but Arcanine, Moltres, Magmortar, Houndoom, and Ninetales all pose a big threat. Once Blastoise goes down, I have no safe switch-ins to any of these Pokémon, and if one shows up, something on my team is forced to give its life. Arcanine is perhaps the worst offender, for several reasons: it can run a variety of unpredictable sets; it usually hits from the physical spectrum which Blastoise can't wall as well; it's very bulky; it has recovery; and worst of all, it has powerful priority that prevents Alakazam and Scyther from revenge-killing it.

Azumarill, Feraligatr: The physical Waters have the capacity to deal some really good damage to my team, and were (along with Torterra) my motivation for changing Venusaur's special bulk to physical. CB Azumarill comes in on Clefable, Scyther, Rhyperior, and Alakazam, and my switch-in is like a crapshoot, since he kills everytihng on my team with the right move. SubPunch Azu isn't as deadly but still hammers hard. Feraligatr has to set up, but if he gets DDs or (god forbid) SDs by forcing Rhyperior or a Tricked/statused Pokémon out, he can surely sweep.

Taunt Mismagius: As mentioned above, Taunt Mismagius shuts down Clefable, and in effect, the rest of the team. My only choices are to Trick or KO with Alakazam (Psychic deals 80%-95%), or attempt the speed tie with Scyther, who OHKOs with unboosted Aerial Ace.

Dugtrio: These sneaky moles kill Alakazam and Clefable fairly reliably. I've considered using Shed Shell on Clefable, but Dugtrio just isn't common enough, and if I hit LO Trio on the switch-in with Toss, I can beat it if I'm at over 60% HP anyway.

Froslass: Despite Froslass' prevelance on the ladder, I didn't prepare for it specifically. I can usually take it down, and spikes don't bother me as much as most teams, but Rhyperior matches up with it poorly as a lead, it sets up freely on Clefable, and it can revenge-kill Scyther.

Rain: While Clefable can hope to paralyze and tank the rain sweepers, encoring Rain Dance from the support Pokémon, a smart player won't let that happen. If a sweeper gets in unimpeded, or even a single bit of hax doesn't go my way, all I can do is watch my Pokémon die for 6 turns, desperately trying to stall out rain and rack up LO damage through switches.

Heavy Offense: As a playstyle, heavy offense ruins my day. Offense, balance, and stall almost seem to beat each other in fire/grass/water fashion, and while I think my team has an edge over stall, offensive teams seem to wreck me more often than most. Besides the fact that they often use several of the aforementioned threats in a single team, offensive teams are naturally played more "ballsy," which mitigates my own daring maneuvers.


Non-Threat List: What my team has very few problems with

Stall: My team's ability to beat the stall teams so common on the ladder is a major factor in its success. Clefable is stall's worst nightmare, since very little on a stall team can kill her or force her out, and Encore punishes support moves. Rhyperior 2HKOs everything in the tier, including walls, most of which are outsped - a stall team that doesn't predict correctly, or that loses its Rock or Ground resists, is easy pickings. Venusaur also messes with stall, especially when the stall player's overzealous Heal Belling lets it continually sleep and seed its switch-ins. Not much on a stall team besides defensive Arcanine and other Venusaur can reliably force entrenched Venusaur out. Scyther easily sweeps through any stall team whose Rock-, Steel-, and Electric-types are weakened, and luckily these Pokémon don't have recovery. While Alakazam often has all three of Registeel, Chansey and Spiritomb to contend with, a single Trick can bring one of the stall team's defensive pivots to ruin.

Raikou: Has no one tried using Clefable to beat Raikou? It's a perfect counter: it switches in on any move, taking 49.5% maximum from Timid Specs T-bolt, the biggest punch one can reasonably expect Raikou to throw right out of the gate. If it Subs, Encore; if it does anything else, T-wave, then Encore if it's stupid enough to set up some more. Though +1 LO T-bolt deals more than Softboiled can heal each turn (54-64%), LO recoil plus full paralysis rate will always put Clefable on top, barring freak flukes. Besides Clefable, Alakazam deals big hits to Raikou even at +1 SpD, and can Trick to lock it into T-bolt, while Rhyperior, Venusaur, and even Scyther (if it's weakened) can all take down variations of Raikou in a pinch.

SD Venusaur: Venusaur's least threatening set in my opinion. Scyther loves coming in on it after something's put to sleep, since very few of them run Return. Alakazam revenges. Can't switch in on Rhyperior or set up on Clefable.

Bulky Waters: Milotic in particular, but also Blastoise, Slowbro/king, and Lanturn pose little threat to my team. Even offensive versions are easily statused and tanked by Clefable (Milotic's LO Timid Hydro Pump deals 49.5% max), while Encore prevents them from healing or supporting.

SubPunchers: I love when they try to set up on Clefable. In fact I often send Clefable right into Poliwrath, at least against inexperienced players, because almost all of them are SubPunchers.

Sucker Punch: Sucker Punch is annoying on Dugtrio, but so many other users of the move routinely give Scyther free setup opportunities. I'm pretty sure Sucker Punch provided me with the majority of my multi-Pokémon Scyther sweeps.

Trick: Only two members of my team, Scyther and Blastoise, hold items that would be considered helpful to most Trickers.

Toxic Spikes: This one is obvious. Even if Venusaur is dead, Clefable and Scyther are immune, Blastoise can Spin them away and Rest, and my two choice users just see poison as insurance against burn/paralysis. I love it when players sacrifice their walls to get the ineffectual T-spikes up.
 

IronBullet

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This is a very nice team, and props for the no. 1 ranking.

I really think you should go back to using the Standard Rhyperior lead, even though you clearly enjoy using it so much. But the fact remains that your said threats get too many free turns to set up if Rhyperior is locked into a bad move. If you do use the standard lead, Swellow and Scyther are easily defeated, and Torterra and Aggron no longer get to set up for free.

Also, Tangrowth outclasses Venusaur in the physically defensive department. It takes on Azumarill and Feraligatr MUCH more reliably, while also giving you a much more reliable check to Aggron, Rhyperior and Torterra. You can run your current set on Torterra as well, but obviously change Black Sludge to leftovers.

Use Foresight on Blastoise. Scyther really can't afford to switch in without rocks, and Rhyperior appreciates the lack of hazards when walling Swellow and Scyther. Foresight can go over Roar. I don't really think Rest is necessary for Blastoise as it becomes setup fodder while sleeping, so why not try running Yawn or Ice Beam? It hits Venusaur for good damage if it switches in, and Yawn is nice for phazing if you replace Roar.

Great team, and gl.
 

yond

mitt game strong
is a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
Hey I remember playing you :) I think we played each other multiple times when I was still laddering. I think we were pretty even, but when I was running Rain Dance I remember that Once I removed your Clefable (which really wasn't all that hard with Kabutops), I didn't have much trouble playing around Blastoise since Qwilfish gets 2hko with rocks and Kabutops always gets it. So Looking at your team it seems like you have trouble playing any Rain Dance that can set up and gather the it's offensive momentum quickly. Since Kabutops gets the 2hko Clefable is not always going to be reliable on a switch in. As I remember you were good at stalling out the Rain, but I don't want you to rely on that as your only plan if you lose your one of your Defensive Mons. There isn't much I can do without changing your team to much which may hinder you against other threats. So I'm am going to second IronBullet's suggestion to switch to the Standard Rhyperior set as you don't lose any attack power that you needed and you have more options from the beginning. This way you can deal with the two most common Rain setters, Uxie and Raikou, who don't normally like switching into anything from Rhyperior then dying to Megahorn or EQ just to set up Rain. If you can take out one of the Rain users support Pokemon early you have the upper hand.

Another thing that I recall the best was that once I let Froslass die, I had the easiest time messing around with you with Uxie, and setting up easily since you were locked into Earthquake. Other players could switch in their sweepers which laugh at whichever move you are locked into and may run through a good portion of your team early on. Another reason as to why I am going to second IronBullet's suggestion to switch to the Standard Rhyperior set as you don't lose any attack power that you needed and you have more options from the beginning. I think it will make a huge difference against all play styles that bother you.

Overall a well thought out and great team. Congratulations on hitting number 1 a few times, thats a feat to gloat about!

Cheers.
 

PK Gaming

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Hey!!!
You're right we HAVE played before. (several times for sure)

Awesome team and layout. Very relatable team building experience. Haven't got much else to say but I 2nd Ironbullets changes. Expecially the Tangrowth recommendation. (preferably a varient with Leafstorm)
 
Thanks for your input.

Leftovers Rhyperior is a waste of his talents, in my opinion. It's true; he would save me from Scyther and Swellow, and he would get SR up more easily. However, he still doesn't comfortably beat Aggron or Torterra, at best turning them into a gamble. Aggron could just Magnet Rise on me. Torterra outspeeds and could OHKO me, unless it's support Tort, in which case Megahorn never OHKOs. Meanwhile, CB Rhyperior walks all over every wall in the game, and nothing can switch in safely on a non-resist. There's too much raw power to give up for Scyther and Swellow. I think the best I can bring myself to do is give up one hit on an obvious switch every game in order to lay Rocks. I know I sound pretty stubborn, in the face of a seconded and thirded great suggestion from IB, but it's something I have tried and I know I'm happier with the raw power.


I briefly considered Tangrowth when I switched Venusaur's EVs to physical, but after a little thought (admittedly no actual playtesting) I realized Venusaur had too many advantages. The main one is the Poison typing, which grants a much-needed Fighting resistance, Toxic (Spikes) immunity, and secondary STAB. Being Poison, plus specially beefy even without EVs, helps Venusaur beat most other Grass-types, while Tangrowth invariably loses - not good for a Seeder. The speed is another factor, as Venusaur outspeeds most walls with minimal investment. Tangrowth meanwhile never outspeeds Milotic, and is 2HKO'd by Ice Beam besides.

You are right about Tangrowth handily beating the RP sweepers. I think it does warrant playtesting, perhaps with a different set (since Seed Tangrowth isn't getting past Grass-types). However, I have a feeling I'll be missing Venusaur's poison, speed and special bulk more often than an answer to the Polishers. Things like Sceptile for example will tear the team a new one.


As for Blastoise, you're right, Foresight is probably the best option. I also like the prospect of Ice Beam, since I do get constant Grass switch-ins, but phazing is definitely proving useful as well. I don't want to use Yawn, as once Venusaur (or Tangrowth) puts something to sleep, Yawn becomes useless. I'll test out Foresight/IB and Foresight/Roar and see which serves me better.


But here's a thought. I've been feeling the itch for a Ghost lately, to take Explosions and Rapid Spins. What do ye raters think of Scarf Rotom over Alakazam? I'll miss the immense sweeping power, sure, but I'll have a normal/ground/fight immune, revenge killer (even outspeeding RPers), Swellow and Scyther counter, and Tricker, all in one package. Hell, those are all things I desperately need. The only niche left unfilled is sweeper, but Scyther does that pretty well himself, and Rotom may just be worth the loss of power. I'll do some calcs when I wake up.
 

IronBullet

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Scarf Rotom is indeed an excellent choice to replace Alakazam. Although it doesn't give you Alakazam's sheer sweeping power, it does provide you with checks to nearly every single threat you mentioned, as well as checking DDgatr, which Venusaur doesn't do too reliably.
The set you should run is probably:
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- HP Ice
- Trick
 
You have quite a large weakness to two things that stick out in my mind: Rock Polish Torterra and Nasty Plot / Sucker Punch Houndoom. Since you don't wanna change Venusaur to Tangrowth / Torterra to cover your issue, I guess the only suggestion I can make is to run Ice Beam over Roar on Blastoise. You might be able to catch it on the switch, and it would really make the game 100 times easier.

As for Houndoom, I guess you can simply trick it with Alakazam to avoid the Sucker Punch, but if a +2 Houndoom decides to use Dark Pulse instead, I think your team is kinda screwed, especially if a suicide lead Froslass gets at least 2 layers up (which it will on your Rhyperior lead). Remember that the Specs will make it +3, which means it will KO everything on your team. There's really no way to fix this problem because it would involve removing either Alakazam or Blastoise from your team (probably Alakazam), so I'll just mention it as a major threat.

Team itself is quite solid, good job.
 
I ran a team similar to this before and I see the Glaring DDgatr weakness. Although, blastoise helps this, but it really doesn't get rid of it completely. I can't really add much since it has "all" been covered, so I'll just second (third) that scarf rotom suggestion. SpecsZam doesn't do anything but possibly sweep late game which scyther does well anyway, so scarf rotom is the way to go imo.

Edit: Wtf is up with the title? o.0
 
Thanks again for the input.

It definitely feels like ScarfTom is the way to go. IronBullet, you make a good suggestion of HP Ice for Terterra. My original idea was WoW, but HP Ice might actually be better for a couple reasons, namely my team already having spread status to a lot of things, and DDTaria who sometimes gives my team problems. However, WoW would prove more useful against Rhyperior/Aggron, so I'll have to do some testing.

As for the second suggestion of Ice Beam on Blastoise, it will be the first thing I try. (IB/Foresight)

Houndoom can be a big threat, but as far as Fire-types go it's not as frightening as some. If Scyther is alive it can be easily revenged, doing about 50% to Doom with QA. Most players instinctively go for the Sucker, which loses them their Doom. Alternatively, if Scyther's at 70%+ HP I can just take the Sucker and get a guaranteed OHKO with AA. Even if I predict wrong, using QA as it uses Fire Blast, Houndoom will only have 4 LO recoils or so left, preventing him from getting too much of a sweep.

The title is a quote from the comedian Dave Attell.
 
Nice team. In my games against you, CB Rhyperior definitely put pressure on my defensive Pokemon, and I thought it was more effective than a standard Leftovers set. I would also suggest using HP Ice on Scarf Rotom, as Choiced Will-O-Wisp gives Swellow a great opportunity to come in and start weakening Rhyperior, or even Pursuit Rotom. Having an Ice move on Rotom means that you won't really need Ice Beam on Blastoise, and using Foresight to almost guarantee a Rapid Spin could really help, since your Pokemon vulnerable to entry hazards lack reliable recovery moves.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
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Hey Stein,

Ah I remember this team for sure, CB + Stealth Rock confused me at times but its effective. I disagree with the addition of Tangrowth, otherwise you'll be completely walled by Milotic. Venusaur is generally better due to the Speed and good bulk on both sides. My suggestions will be small: Shadow Ball over Signal Beam on Alakazam is probably the best tweak you can do to inflict more damage on Spiritomb, pixies, and Slowking. Other than that, you'll only miss out on reliably hitting Umbreon if you're afraid of Focus Blast missing.

How do you find Mismagius? I think a Taunt + Nasty Plot or even a Calm Mind set will trouble this team somewhat. Switching in Alakazam is a dangerous choice. What do you think about trying out Power Whip on Venusaur and going for a Impish instead of Bold? Sludge Bomb's power will not be missed due to ability to hurt Tangrowth, Sceptile, and even Arcanine. Power Whip means your not forced to switch out that often and you can limit Mismagius's set up opportunities.

As for other options, you can space in Foresight on Blastoise over Roar or Rest possibly. This gives you a reliable way to spin away those rocks and Spikes. I really feel like stall will trample you with Scyther being your only source of reliable offense. Something to look for if stall is giving you problems. overall gl.
 
So far I've been testing Blastoise with IB/Foresight and Scarf Rotom with HP Ice. Main post has been updated to reflect changes. Tangrowth test forthcoming.

Turkeybacon, what do you suggest over Ice Beam? It's actually proved more useful than I anticipated, since people like to switch Altaria into Blastoise for some reason.

Edit:
Franky, I agree losing Venusaur's Speed and SpD would be detrimental, especially as I now have Rotom to take EQs. As much as I enjoyed using Alakazam I doubt I will go back to it, as Rotom's utility outweighs Alakazam's sweeping power. I did consider Shadow Ball - in fact I used it when Zam was a lead for a short time - but the only extra KOs it got me were the occasional Ghost, who rarely switched in, while it allowed Dark- and Normal-types to set up on me.

Taunt Mismagius does actually rape me, though I haven't encountered it yet with Rotom. STAB Shadow Ball does a good 78% minimum, and though it seems risky, it switches in easily from Clefable, since Mismagius will either be setting up on the switch, or attacking with T-bolt or (even better for me) HP Fight. (This was the same situation with Alakazam.) Power Whip is a good suggestion; I will add it to the list of things to test. Now that I have Blastoise, OHKOing physically bulky Grounds with Venusaur isn't as much of a concern.

Again, thanks for the rates and advice, everyone.
 
Rhyperior needs more Body Slam!

Haha, I kid. You may remember a certain futile.ALT talking such nonsense. Anyway, I really just wanted to drop a line and say how nice this team is. I've only played this incarnation once (sans changes such as Rotom; and undoubtedly prior versions on various alts), and it was disappointing that it wasn't hax free since it would have made for a very tight battle. GG by the way, you are very gracious.

I honestly can't add much more to the suggestive process, so rather, I will just comment. The first thing I notice is scrolling through the team how passive-aggressive it is. Maybe this is just an illusion, since most teams of this type tend to go Spikes - Rocks - Defensive Core - Raikou or something like that. Not seeing Raikou on a team makes one wonder where the offense comes from. It's odd, but I thought I'd mention it.

I am a big advocate of Will-O-Wisp on Rotom. I don't need to explain the workings of it, but WoW paired with Trick is hell for a lot of players: Walls and physical attackers alike get screwed over.

As much as I love Tangrowth, I agree with franky about keeping Venusaur. Adding the physical defense EVs came as a real surprise to me when I faced it, since my +2 Tangrowth's EQ barely scratched it. Power Whip, although shaky at times, is really tops though.

Nice team. Hope to face it again soon.
 
Ah, I remember you. I forget the details of our match, though the hax stands out in my mind as particularly bad.

I think "passive-agressive" isn't far from the mark. My team tries to use a lot of catch-all Pokémon that have a very limited set of counters, and even ways of getting around those counters, given the right conditions. Early game I try to take down a few Pokémon, then sweep/stall out the rest of the team with whatever the downed Pokémon would have otherwise countered.

HP Ice has been underwhelming on the whole so far, although I did get a kill on a Donphan -> Swellow switch that was expecting WoW/Shadow Ball. I also haven't seen a single Torterra since I added Rotom. Or any Rock Polisher for that matter.

I've gotten several Power Whip suggestions as well as an alternate EV spread for Venusaur, all in the name of beating Taunt Missy. I'll give it a test later.

Thanks for the comments.
 
Hi Steinhauser :D Finally after I watched so many matches of you the past days (you on SH3) you just reveal it here :P Your team looks pretty wicked, and I hope you can get #1 again just like first :P GL
 
I'm guessing you wont be too happy about rating your team, but here goes. Having played against this team, and beating it, all I can say is maybe run Will-o-Wisp on Rotom. Otherwise, you have to rely on trick to deal with threats such as SD Venusaur, which can take HP Ice rather well. Apart from that, this is a very well put together and clearly through team.
 
Dex - Thanks. I think my new "goal" is to cram as many alts into the top 10 as I can. You know, for kicks.

Alex - Beating the odds isn't the same as beating my team, so you can stop being smug about it. Keep practicing and someday you won't need to rely on hax to win.
 
Dex - Thanks. I think my new "goal" is to cram as many alts into the top 10 as I can. You know, for kicks.
Oh, if you use that tactic, it won't be very hard. BTW, can you help me with building a good team using the PM? I highly appreciate it ;)
 
Turkeybacon, what do you suggest over Ice Beam? It's actually proved more useful than I anticipated, since people like to switch Altaria into Blastoise for some reason.
I didn't realize that you were replacing both Rest and Roar. I thought that Foresight would be more useful than Ice Beam, but since you can use both moves, Ice Beam seems great to me. It would definitely help against Swellow and Scyther, who can 2hko your Blastoise since it is focused on Special Defense.
 

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