Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[KztxL7]

Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

And the circle continues.

 

[Uvood]

Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

Umbreon can't take anything from Kanga, not even gonna bother calcing that. Skarmory is two hit koed by +2 return, Ferrothorn just dies.

 

[Mozilla Fennekin]

Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

No, Ferrothorn does NOT get the job done if it has to die just to weaken it.
And Rocky Helmet Umbreon/Skarmory? What?

252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 189-223 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO (The set I run)

252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 346-408 (98.5 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kangaskhan: 346-408 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So these require kanga to have already taken damage and gengar cannot take a sucker punch at all and even if kanga is not running sucker punch, a 252 hp kanga from full health survives a focus blast and retaliates killing gengar.

You're also calc'ing against a regular Kangaskhan (I did too and edited). So these percentages are even lower.

 

[Varnithis]

I primarly play Wifi, and not Showdown and the 6v6 Meta. It's been said once before but I will go ahead and repeat it, the 3v3 Ranked Wifi ladder is literally All Kanga + support, Kanga with 2 Kanga counters, or 3 Kanga counters above 1800. As in literally 99% of teams. Offical Nintendo Wifi is now "Kangaskhan, the Fighting."

I believe in a competitive format like smogon 6v6 singles, it simply has to be banlisted. And this is form someone who usually much prefers the 3v3 singles format. I might actually give up Cart play simply because right now, You use Kanga, and entire team designed to stop Kanga, or you lose.

 

[TheMohZone]

sacrifice a wall to kill their mega? pretty worth it for me. im not saying its not broken, just saying there are ways to counter it as well.

its worth it to lose part of your defensive core just to get Swept by something that loves having that mon or two gone? you have fun with that.

Loads of pokémons can really counter Kangaskhan. A offensive threat for him is Talonflame.
Talonflame, with is high HP EVs + high ATK EVs can KO Kangas easily because he have his OP Gale Wing... Brave Bird/Acrobatics can do tons of damage to Kangas.
Gengar can also do damage to Kangas. He levitate, and it is Ghost, wich means that eliminates 3 of 4 attacks from Kangaskhan (If he cast Focus Blast can OHKO that Mega Kanga).
Well, this is my oppinion. Kengas should stay in Overused tier.

Talonflame can't KO Khan and gets raped by Return

Gar is defeated by Crunch and no sub disable/ Destiny bond variants even by SP. and Crunch is the primary slash for a reason.

Ok lets clear the air.

Rocky Helmet is not a counter. it is a shaky way to get to a possible check. Sacking something is not a counter, running a gimmick item on a pokemon on your team solely to suicide even less so.
Ghosts aren't counters outside Sableye who is easily played around
FAKE OUT SUCKS STOP MENTIONING IT!

these 3 points are moot. we need these added to the op....NO we need this added to the fucking title and every goddam Page. these points get countered twice or 3 times every page and its seriously annoying. No anti ban argument holds ANY ground. there is no pokemon outside Sableye who is shakey above or below OU who can counter this thing. No sweepers no walls nothing. it can be revenged fine but so could Blaziken, so Could B/W Excadrill and soo many other busted mons of the past. it means NOTHING! and with team support? its unstoppable. Rotom Heat is an ideal partner for it, absorbing all Status that could stop its sweep and preserving it for later. Zygarde and Dnite can also clean up its leftovers. and they WILL get the chance to do this. its not only busted in the fact that it sweeps the tier no questions, its busted in that with its help, most OTHER sweepers clean up the tier too.

Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

...........

NO
NO STOP
NO PLEASE!
NO MORE! I CAN'T TAKE THIS SHIT!

how can people be so stupid?

READ THE DAMM THREAD!

 

[Edgar81539]

Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

I just posted the calculations for BOLD FERROTHORN with Rocky Helmet, MegaKanga survives, badly damaged, but it survives. Why people never read? Umbreon gets trashed by PUP and Skarmory the better thing can do is to Whirlwind MegaKanga, not that it matters, because she can come in easily next turn.

 

[GCSChris]

Make that Skarmory wear a Rocky Helmet. Also, Ferrothorn/Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

Umbreon can do the job with a Rocky Helmet.

Umbreon

 

[Xtarviust]

Well, looks like I got to the party when it's going full steam.



I think that Mega Kangaskhan should not be banned.



I have personally made at least 5 teams around this guy in Pokebank, and Mega Kanga far from guarantees a win. It operates similar to any other sweeper, and has just as many checks. Volcarona has Heatran, M-Kanga has Keldeo. Keldeo resits its only source of priority, and outspeeds and OHKOs it. All you have to do to stop a M-Kanga sweep is put in a Keldeo, and go for the Sacred Sword. STAB+ Super Effective will do Kanga in.



For non-anecdotal evidence, let me reference the last ban debate. Gengarite was banned for its capability to offer next to perfect support, without anything able to effectively oppose it. As the metagame has evolved up to this point, it seems to be leaning strongly towards physical defense. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, and others are becoming more and more prevalent than ever, while special cannons like Latios and special walls like Blissey are being substituted for things that can handle physical hits as well, like Heatran. This is due in no small part to the physical threats of this generation, like Talonflame, M-Luke, Char-X, M-Kanga, Aegislash, and others. This means that removing a physical threat like Kanga will not fix or alter the flow of the meta. It will simply be one less threat for teams to deal with, instead of something that can help shape the meta due to how teams prepare for it.



In reference to the "Portrait of an Uber" thread, this is what is listed as the qualities for an offensive Uber:







Kanga has the "capable of sweeping through a signifigant portion of teams" part down pat, and that is where all of the adversion to it seems to be coming from. However, it is unable to follow through on the integral "little effort" section. As with most sweepers, certian threats on the opposing team must be dealt with before attempting a sweep. For Volcarona, it is Stealth Rocks, Rock Types, and Heatran. For Dragonite, it's status setters, Faries, Ice Shard carriers, and things like Vaporeon. For Aegislash, it's WoW carriers, Normal types, and faster mons with Earthquake. You get the point. For Kanga, the list is no shorter. Before you can get to sweeping, you need to get rid of the opponent's Sableyes, Quagsires, Ferrothorns, Rocky Helmet (and Roar) Skarmory, M-Lucario, Fighting types with priority (Read Mach Punch), and Ghost types. If there is a Ghost type still alive, Kanga CANNOT sweep (assuming it is played well). Many ghosts carry WoW, which cripples Kanga without PuP, and ones with it cannot use it on a ghost type. Jellicent, Sableye, Dusclops can all do this well. Then, their only fear is a Shadow Claw, but if Kanga is carrying that, it allows Ferrothorn to take it to meet its maker. If the opposing team is running any good form of physical defense on their team, a large ammount of effort is required for Kanga to sweep, which, by definition, makes it not Ubers.



Kanga is also very susceptible to passive damage. With Drain Punch as it's only form of effective (offensive) recovery, it has a hard time staying the battle unless it can pull of a sweep. Priority, status (Esp. Burn), Stealth Rocks, and Spikes all keep Kanga's number of switch-ins limited. If it chooses to run Drain Punch it must give up one of the things that makes it such a potent sweeper: Priority, Strong STAB, Boosting, or Coverage. "But what about Wish/Seismic Toss?" By definition, that is not a sweeper. It hits hard, yes. However, it does not have the sweeping prowess of normal M-Kanga. Seismic Toss is also reasonably gimmicky, since it (again) cannot deal with Ghosts, anything with a reasonable amount of bulk that runs substitute (and let's be honest; most things with a large ammount of HP bulk love to run sub). It also has to 2HKO, since almost nothing in OU has less than 200 HP. This allows opponents to switch in Ghosts, Recover, or hit Kanga with status.



In closing, Kanga is good, but it is nothing new. I would support suspect testing it, but under no circumstances should it be insta-banned. It does not have the ability to sweep the Meta unopposed, and therefore does not fit the qualification for an Uber. It is not uncounterable. If it wants to live long enough to take advantage of its bulk, it has to diminish its sweeping capabilities. If it goes defensive, it becomes easier to counter, and only succeeds in changing its counters, not removing them.

The problem with Kangaskhan-M is that her attributes and her ability makes it pretty hard to check. It isn't like other ordinary sweepers, Big Momma can hit two times in a turn, only has ONE weakness, her bulk is a little bigger than cute legends (Mew, Celebi), and her movepool is pretty huge, she simply can choose a move besides the traditional set (P-u-P, sucker punch and Return) to check a specifical counter.
Do you wanna stop her with a bulky ghost with W-o-W?, she can run crunch or shadow claw to get rid of it, or simply wait for the mega-evolving and use P-u-P when she has scrappy, for a free boost and finally eliminate the ghost with crunch/shadow claw
Do you wanna stop her with a Skar or Ferro with rocky helmet?, she can run fire punch to shut down them, or simply Magnezone could do the job for her.

After this, the only rely counters for her are faster fighting types and prankster ghosts with W-o-W. But the first ones could be fucked if sticky web was in the field, and the second ones cant switch in safety without getting smashed by a two-hit-crunch/shadow claw from Big Momma.

Indeed I don't understand why smogon didn't suspect her before M-Gengar, if her power and attributes are pretty superior to perish song+shadow tag crap. The actual metagame revolves around Kanga. All I see in showdown are rocky helmets and Trevenants, only to have a chance to stop her, and they arent always enough to avoid the incoming sweep. So ban her, please.

 

[Ningildo]

sacrifice a wall to kill their mega? pretty worth it for me. im not saying its not broken, just saying there are ways to counter it as well.

there are ways to counter it as well.

Ha. Ha. Ha.
Countering means you can come in 100% of the time on a set, survive 2/3+ hits and force it out because of it, while also having possible instant recovery in order to this repeatedly. Remember that and then decide if ferro "counters" MKhan.

And as I was typing another can of already used crappy arguments was opened.
Guys, if the fact that all is already said doesn't deter you, at least read the first ten pages of this thread before posting, gdi.

 

[TonicWater]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

 

[SkiGloves]

I feel that Mega Kangaskhan has enough power to justify a ban. Firstly, as has been mentioned many times previous, rocky helmet abuse to put her into KO range for your team's priority user is practically the only reliable countermeasure.

No variant of Kangaskhan can OHKO any sane variant of Ferrothorn with Fire Punch unless it crits. Not a Parental Bond "OHKO" either, a true OHKO.
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 128 HP / 0+ Def Ferrothorn: 252-300 (78.5 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 140+ Def Ferrothorn: 224-268 (77.5 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Earthquake is Kangaskhan's favourite move that avoids rockybarbs, against your generic Ferrothorn it's not too impressive and can give Ferro several free turns of leech seed turning it into an eventual KO.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 121-144 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 105-124 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Hilariously, Kangaskhan always has this as an option.
0- SpA Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 174-210 (49.4 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Despite how impressive this match-up is for Ferro, taking a power-up punch on the switch in makes this match-up much more painful due to +2 EQs.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 90-108 (25.5 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 220-259 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 153-181 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The closest thing to a commonly used counter merely guarantees that Kangaskhan loses half its health. This all also requires that Ferrothorn stay back and do nothing until Kangaskhan shows up, praying there's no rocks and it's a Jolly Kangaskhan. Still with max defence investment Ferrothorn is likely to win if it takes the power-up punch on the switch, strange you'd want to take the super effective move.

For rockyskin chomp, we've got a bit of a different issue. That being Rockyskin Chomp can't just be running any random set with a rocky helmet:
252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 336-396 (94.1 - 110.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Like Ferrothorn, Kanga has a special option to deal with this specifically geared "counter".
0- SpA Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 270-318 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
212 SpA Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 396-468 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

As for Kangaskan's normal moves, Garchomp does pretty well.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 144-169 (34.2 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 217-258 (51.6 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garchomp: 115-136 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 178-211 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 150-177 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

But yes. This Garchomp is specifically geared to deal with Kangaskhan and it doesn't do terribly well at anything else. Pre-icepunch, Garchomp is capable of switching in and KOing her. But Garchomp can't trap her and is likely to get taken down or be locked into Outrage for the KO.

If a pokémon specifically engineered to deal with another exact pokémon isn't reliable at its job, there's a problem. Like Mega Gengar before her, Kangaskhan's power is tear wholes in team with little opportunity for stopping her. However, unlike Mega Gengar, Kangaskhan lacks the sheer variety of sets that allow it to take out anything, nor does it have the counterplay killing Shadowtag. For instance Ferrothorn can take almost any +2 single hit of Kangaskhan's, and takes her down with it by blocking a power-up punch on the initial switch in and switching back into anything that isn't Earthquake (which Khan must use to avoid being KO'd by Ferrothorn's recoil unless it is carrying fire punch). However, every team requires Ferrothorn or Wallchomp to play these mind games.

While all of those calculations probably aren't necessary, but they make a point. Mega Kangaskhan's "counters" aren't reliable, even in perfect conditions. While they do provide an out to a Mega Kangaskhan crushing your team, you're frequently left with a dead pokémon. So, I conclude that Kangaskanite should be banned.

 

[Uvood]

Yeh, when Umbreon gets brought up as a physical wall (which it sucks at, it's much better specially defensive), with rocky helmet no less, you know somethings very wrong XD!

 

[S7ven]

I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.

 

[TheMohZone]

Ha. Ha. Ha.
Countering means you can come in 100% of the time on a set, survive 2/3+ hits and force it out because of it, while also having possible instant recovery in order to this repeatedly. Remember that and then decide if ferro "counters" MKhan.

And as I was typing another can of already used crappy arguments was opened.
Guys, if the fact that all is already said doesn't deter you, at least read the first ten pages of this thread before posting, gdi.

can i like this more than once?

seriously this is the thread in a nutshell beyond the fact we get 10 seconds of peace before "I think Kanga is fine because X Stops her" when it doesn't.

is one day enough? i think its crystal clear where this is going!

I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.

as i fucking say it.

 

[Uvood]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

Kanga runs Crunch far more than EQ, And Trevenant gets destroyed by it.

 

[Varnithis]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

You switch Trevenant into Pup, except it's crunch. You will-o-wisp next turn, but get crunched again and are now dead. Mega Khan has taken 0 damage. Now what?

 

[alexhitman666]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

Please people, it was mentioned already, just use crunch and all those ghosts disappear except one : Sableye

 

[Edgar81539]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

Oh, God, I cannot deal with these circular arguments... I don't know if laugh or cry. Trevenant cannot counter MegaKanga and it gets killed by Crunch.

Aegislash gets Killed by Sucker Punch.

I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.

Skarmory dies to +2 Return. R-E-T-U-R-N. MegaLucario, yeah, it checks it, NOT COUNTERS, because it dies to Return or even worse, POWER UP PUNCH too. So now you have a full Health +3 MegaKanga ready to kill everyone. So much for your "counter", huh?

 

[KztxL7]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

That One Moveset is enough to destroy most of the metagame. Aegislash is destroyed by EQ and Crunch.

Also, I can easily switch to a Pokemon that gives no shits about burns AKA - Talonflame or any other Fire Pokemon, a Magic Guard/Bounce Pokemon or a Special Attacker.

And for the love of God, Mega-Lucario and Skarmory don't counter MKhan.

 

[Xtarviust]

Trevenant is a perfect example of a kangaskhan counter. Switch it into an easily predictable power-up-punch, (all kangas carry this now) use will-o-wisp on the even more predictable sucker punch or switch. If he stays, he's burned and has no ability to boost against trev. If he switches, whatever he decided to switch in is now burned. If he stayed in that turn, then you can either switch and take whatever he dishes, or stay, and set up a leech seed/attack. Kangaskhan is great, he has fair bulk, crazy attack, and a decent moveset. Not a movepool; a moveset. One moveset. There is no variety, so prediction is easy as taking candy from a baby. In addition; Aegislash exists now. I don't believe that I need to explain.

Crunch and Trevenant will be goooooooooooooone

 

[Dakar]

You know what? You bastards have actually managed to convince me that it is banworthy. In practice, it doesn't seem that bad, since you can usually kill it with team support.

But that's the problem:

You can't kill this thing without team support. Whatever would be considered a traditional "counter" it has a way around. If you go for defense, it can carry something to push through it, without much harm. You'll need to sacrifice anything short of Sableye/Evio Dusclops (Thanks, Edgar81539) to be able to kill it with the next thing you send in. I don't think anything short of a fully setup sweeper could do that Gen V. If you go for offense, it can, and will kill you on the switch in. Offensive countering to it is not reactionary, it must be preset to deal with Kanga. If the opponent can predict your Lucario or Terrak switch-in, your counter is dead to a PuP, and you're sunk. The only way for you to win that matchup is to get them to mispredict, or be in before Kanga bears its face. Sorry anti-banners, I just can't justify keeping it OU.

One edit, though:

Kanga is obvious Ubers material. M-Gar, maybe. I can see other Megas facing the banhammer in the future (Lucario) as well. That makes me think: what about a Mega-OU? Once the tiers are all sorted out, I think this should be considered. It would be a sort of BL for Ubers- a place to put all the things that have too much power for OU, but are either outclassed by or can't find a place in Ubers. Not all ban subjects would need this (Kanga for example), but many would, and it would accomplish what I believe is the goal of the tiering system: to make sure there is a place where every Pokemon has an opportunity to shine. Perhaps this is better suited for another thread, but for OU council members who may be reading this, I beseech you to consider this.

 

[Scorpiopt]

this thing is broken, it requires sacking something just to have a chance of not getting yourself sweeped

 

[Farpafraf]

Why do people think throwing something at MKhan like throwing a Virgin Sacrifice to a Pagan god is a counter pokemon?

Thanks God, someone with common sense.

I don't feel Mega-Kanga should be ubers. It can easily be countered by Mega-Lucario and Skarmory.

OH NOT AGAIN WITH THAT.Please pick a random number between 1 and 32 go to the corresponding page of this thread, read some post on that page and you'll find why you're WRONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

 

[KztxL7]

I would also like to put this out there to everyone who thinks running Rocky Helmet on Ferrothorn or Skarmory. Pray you don't run into a MKhan player teaming it with Magnezone.

 

[nyczxjay]

You know what? You bastards have actually managed to convince me that it is banworthy. In practice, it doesn't seem that bad, since you can usually kill it with team support.

But that's the problem:

You can't kill this thing without team support. Whatever would be considered a traditional "counter" it has a way around. If you go for defense, it can carry something to push through it, without much harm. You'll need to sacrifice anything short of Sableye/Evio Dusclops (Thanks, Edgar81539) to be able to kill it with the next thing you send in. I don't think anything short of a fully setup sweeper could do that Gen V. If you go for offense, it can, and will kill you on the switch in. Offensive countering to it is not reactionary, it must be preset to deal with Kanga. If the opponent can predict your Lucario or Terrak switch-in, your counter is dead to a PuP, and you're sunk. The only way for you to win that matchup is to get them to mispredict, or be in before Kanga bears its face. Sorry anti-banners, I just can't justify keeping it OU.

Welcome brother, we've been waiting for you lol.