Klefki [QC 0/3]

[xapx]

[OVERVIEW]
* Klefki has a decent defensive typing in the game, resisting 11 types and weak to 2 types.
* The ability Prankster further Klefki's utility, having moves such as Thunder Wave to cripple fast sweepers and attackers such as Xerneas, Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence.I
* It can check Fairy and Dark types such as Xerneas, Yveltal and Darkrai
* Access to the rare Spikes allows it to perform as a hazard setter, as well as pressuring Defoggers and Primal Groudon with Toxic.
* Presence of Primal Groudon in the tier hinders Klefki's ability to function, as it cannot be hit with anything but Toxicl
* Klefki is also weak to common Ground and Fire coverage, and has no recovery aside from Leftover's passive recovery, allowing Pokemon it is supposed to check to wear it down easily.
* Klefki faces competition from other Steel types such as Magearna, Ferrothorn or Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Magearna is a far better Xerneas check than Klefki and can reverse sweep foes, Ferrothorn having more bulk and longevity and being a better Spikes setter, and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane being able to check Xerneas, set up Stealth Rock and has offensive presence

[set]
name: Support
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Play Rough / Foul Play
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
* Spikes is an important move for Klefki, damages grounded foes when they switch in, wear down Pokemon for Klefki's teammates.
* Thunder Wave is important for stopping fast Pokemon such as Marshadow and Mega Gengar,
* Shut down powerful attackers such as Mega Mewtwo Y, Ultra Necrozma, Xerneas and Mega Salamence.
* Toxic is important for chipping away at Pokemon which are not affected by Thunder Wave, such as Primal Groudon and Giratina.
* Play Rough stops Klefki from being Taunt bait, and hits Magic Bounce users such as Mega Sableye
* It also stops Dark types from setting up freely on Klefki without taking some damage.
* Foul Play is an option to possible kill Mega Gengar if paralyzed, and is the best direct attack to hit Psychic and Ghost types

Set Details
========
* Leftovers provide Klefki with passive recovery and is its only recovery method aside from Wish and Healing Wish.
* Prankster is a great ability which allows Klefki's status moves to be at +1 priority.
* Max HP and Special Defensive alongside a Careful nature maximizes Klefki's special bulk so it can check special attackers such as Yveltal and Xerneas.
* 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm nature can be used if Foul Play is used

Usage Tips
========

* Send in Klefki on relatively passive Pokemon such as Arceus-Water, Magearna, Lugia or Pokemon it checks such as Xerneas or Yveltal
* Use slow VoltTurn to allow Klefki to switch in and set up Spikes
* Put down Spikes when Klefki is against Pokemon which cannot deal much damage such as Magearna
* Klefki is taken advantage of a majority of the tier, so it should try and spread status and set up Spikes whenever possible
* Thunder Wave should be used to cripple fast threats such as Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence and provide speed control for slower threats in the back
* Look out for any Ground types as they are immune to Thunder Wave, predict them to come in and Toxic on the switch
* Upon switching in, Klefki should set up Spikes when the foe is not a threat such as Arceus-Water
* Toxic should be used to cripple bulky Pokemon such as Giratina and Ho-Oh for teammates to KO them
* It is also worth noting that using Thunder Wave immediately against fast threats is useful, as a misprediction can turn the tides of a game
* Klefki is not a reliable counter to most of its switch-ins, and should mainly be used to spread status among them and chip away foes with Spikes
* Do not set up hazards or spread status while there is a Magic Bounce user on the opposing team. Use Klefki’s teammates to weaken it until it cannot come in on Klefki’s Play Rough
* Klefki can be used to punish physical set-up Pokemon such as Mega Salamence or Necrozma-Dusk-Mane with Foul Play
* Be aware of opposing Ground and Steel-types, as they are able to use Klefki as setup fodder
* Although Klefki’s fairy typing allows it to be immune to Dragon-types, most Dragon-types such as Kyurem-White and Zygarde have Fire or Ground coverage, so Klefki should be aware of them

Team Options
========
* Offensive Pokemon that enjoy hazard stacking such as Geomancy Xerneas, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence, Extreme Killer Arceus, Marshadow
and Zygarde-C are also good partners, as Klefki can set up Spikes and intoxicate their checks
* Primal Groudon is a good teammate, as it sets up Stealth Rock alongside Spikes, resists Fire and Steel types, and helps double-check Xerneas
* Xerneas can help Klefki check Dark types such as Yveltal or Arceus-Dark
* Checks to Primal Groudon such as Mega Salamence or Zygarde are necessary, as Klefki struggles to do anything against
* These Pokemon also benefit from Klefki's ability to Paralyze or Toxic their checks and counters
* Wallbreakers such as Primal Kyogre, Yveltal or Lunala also benefit Klefki's Spikes as well as speed control from Thunder Wave
* Primal Kyogre in particular is able to take on Ground and Fire types such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh
* Hex users such as Giratina-O and Gengar-Mega benefit from Klefki's ability to spread status among opposing teams, and the latter can trap foes
* Bulky Shadow Tag users such as Gothitelle and Gothorita can trap Defog Arceus forms so Klefki's Spikes will stay on the field

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* A set with Swagger / Thunder Wave / Foul Play can be used, but as confusion has a low chance to hit, Dark types are immune to Prankster
moves and Primal Groudon being immune to Thunder Wave, this set is generally unviable.
* Dual Screens with Light Clay can be used, by Screens are generally very niche in the Uber tier and very hard to set up due to the presence of Primal Groudon

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh does not mind Toxic due to Regenerator and can threaten Klefki out with a powerful Sacred Fire. Defog varients are also able to get rid of Klefki's Spikes

**Ground Types**: Although they do not like to be intoxicated, Ground types are immune to Thunder Wave and can threaten Klefki out with their powerful Ground type moves. Primal Groudon can threaten Klefki with its STAB moves, Arceus-Ground can either use it to set up Swords Dance or threaten it with Judgment, while Zygarde-C can also use it to set up Dragon Dance or Coil. Furthermore, some Arceus-Ground and Zygarde-C sets run Substitute and can avoid a Toxic from Klefki

**Steel Types**: Steel types such as Ferrothorn, Dialga and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane are immune to Toxic and can threaten Klefki out with their Steel, Fire or Ground type coverage. They are also able to bring their own hazards and make Klefki take unnecessary damage

**Magic Bounce**: Magic Bounce stops Klefki's status moves and in return Klefki is unable to do much against them. It is also unable to 2HKO Mega Sableye with Play Rough

**Shadow Tag**: Shadow Tag users such as Mega Gengar or Gothitelle can stall Klefki out. Mega Gengar is able to 3HKO Klefki without Foul Play without much problem even though it dislikes Paralysis. Gothitelle can use Klefki to set up Calm Mind and kill it with Psyshock, as well as shrug off any status with Rest

 

[xapx]

Ready for first QC check

 

[Lotus]

First of all the formatting isn't right.

[OVERVIEW]

SUPPORT

[SET COMMENTS]

These three are what I'm referring to, and change all hyphens to asterisks so that this won't be painful to upload later on.

==

Overview:

Klefki indeed has many resistances and immunities, but I wouldn't say it has "one of the best typings" in the tier where Primal Groudon is the most common Pokemon and Ground-types like Arceus-Ground and Zygarde-C are threatening. Klefki's bulk isn't decent either, because as you point out later on, it is easily overwhelmed by repeated attacks from its checks. I'd say the typing enables Klefki to handle specific attackers like Xerneas and Yveltal.

When talking about Prankster, use different examples of Pokemon that are crippled by Thunder Wave. Ultra Necrozma and Xerneas are far more relevant targets / examples than Mega Mewtwo Y.

- It can check a plethora of Pokemon in the tier makes it a good Pokemon in general.

Again, I'm not entirely sure if this is true. Mention what Klefki specifically checks to convey readers better idea about what Pokemon can Klefki defensively react against.

Remove mentions of Defog and move it to Other Options. There are far more reliable and consistent Defog users than Klefki and it can't justify over other moves in most cases.

- Dark types are now immune to Prankster moves and greatly hinders Klefki's ability to complete its role, as Thunder Wave nor Toxic no longer affects Dark types.
- The introduction of Psychic Terrain also stops Prankster moves from working while Psychic Terrain is active.

We don't include generational shifts / changes in analyses. These points can be removed.

Mention that Klefki faces competition with other Steel-types - Magerna is far better as a check to Xerneas and Yveltal, Ferrothorn is a better setter for Spikes, and Necrozma-DM also checks Xerneas, can provide Stealth Rock support, and is much less passive.


Moves:

Change move 4 to:

move 4: Play Rough / Foul Play

Foul Play means you can combat Mega Gengar if you get lucky with Thunder Wave and it is the best direct attack against Ghost- and Psychic-types.

Mention that Play Rough hits Magic Bounce users, especially Mega Sableye.


Usage Tips:

- Keep Klefki healthy until fast attackers are either gone or infatuated with status.

This seems to be misleading. Klefki will pivot into threats it checks and do its best to lay Spikes and spread various status to foes. Klefki's teammates are the ones that benefit from these utilities.

- Toxic on a predicted switch to Primal Groudon or Defoggers such as Giratina-O or support Arceus forms
- Thunder Wave on setup sweepers such as Geomancy Xerneas, Dragon Dance Mega Salamence, Dual Dance Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

In addition to this you can maybe talk about hitting foes on the switch. Ground-types will force out Klefki after they have switched in and Steel-types like Ferrothorn will proceed to take advantage of it. Klefki's matchup against many Pokemon aren't too great so talk about predicting what will come in and punish them with appropriate status moves, or just laying Spikes and quickly withdrawing Klefki from unfavorable matchups to avoid unnecessarily weakening it.

Add a point about being cautious against Gothitelle.


Team Options:

Make the first bullet about Pokemon that can take advantage of Spikes. You mention that Pokemon like Xerneas, Mega Salamence, and Arceus benefit from these, but you can add Zygarde-C and Marshadow to these examples because Spikes tend to wear down their checks significantly fast.

Klefki isn't a reliable check against them and will switch into them a few times to annoy them at best. Add that Primal Groudon checks Xerneas and Xerneas checks Yveltal and benefit from Spikes (you kinda do but make some replacements for the sake or right ordering / grouping).

Add some wallbreakers as teammates. Spikes are useful for them too and the speed control that Klefki provides with Thunder Wave is appreciated for Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Yveltal. They are helpful against defensive teams in general. Primal Kyogre is especially helpful with breaking through Ho-Oh and Ground-types.


Other Options:

Remove Fairy Lock and Heal Block - these see barely any use.


Checks and Counters:

Re-order them to this:

* Ho-Oh
* Ground-types
* Steel-types
* Magic Bounce
* Shadow Tag

Ho-Oh is on the top because Defog variants can force out Klefki while getting rid of Spikes and any Ho-Oh variant aren't significantly crippled by Toxic because of Regenerator.

Ground-types is where offensive checks like Primal Groudon / Zygarde-C / Arceus-Ground can be covered. They all dislike Toxic, but the latter two can circumvent this if they have Substitute up.

Steel-types are problematic because Klefki can't do much against them while you'll mostly end up trading hazards and will take unnecessary damage if you stay on them.

Magic Bounce stops just about everything Klefki can do. Mega Sableye stops Klefki most of the time because it avoids 2HKO from Play Rough and can liberally switch into it as long as it hasn't been too weakened.

Shadow Tag is where you talk about Mega Gengar - which dislikes paralysis but can remove Klefki lacking Foul Play without much trouble - and Gothitelle.


Alert me in here or Discord and I'll give a look at this again.

 

[xapx]

Quality Check

I think I implemented all of them, thanks

 

[Lotus]

change all hyphens to asterisks so that this won't be painful to upload later on

By this I didn't mean for you to use bullet points. The right formatting should go like this:

* Stuff 1
* Stuff 2
* Stuff 3

Instead of:

• Stuff 1
• Stuff 2
• Stuff 3

==

Some things have not been implemented properly or can see better fixations:

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane being able to check Xerneas and set up Stealth Rock

Mention that Necrozma-DM is less passive - Klefki too checks Xerneas and sets entry hazards so there is a need to differentiate Necrozma-DM and Klefki.

In addition to this you can maybe talk about hitting foes on the switch. Ground-types will force out Klefki after they have switched in and Steel-types like Ferrothorn will proceed to take advantage of it. Klefki's matchup against many Pokemon aren't too great so talk about predicting what will come in and punish them with appropriate status moves, or just laying Spikes and quickly withdrawing Klefki from unfavorable matchups to avoid unnecessarily weakening it.

I don't think this point has been implemented properly. What I expect to see are some bullet points that discuss when is the right moment to spread status (appropriate status depending on Pokemon) and when should Klefki just go for setting up Spikes instead. You mention about not having Klefki worn down too rapidly so double check if you have this down in Usage Tips.

Also it is Ho-Oh (not Ho-oh).

Implement these and I'll give this a stamp.

 

[Lotus]

While the Team Options section look better, the Usage Tips sections look too lacking in detail for me to evaluate properly. Some information are misleading ("Do not use klefki mainly to check Dark-types" when Klefki can switch into Yveltal and Arceus-Dark, listing Mega Blaziken as a target for Thunder Wave) and there are some repetitive points. The way the information is presented isn't very formal and the section doesn't say 'how to use the Pokemon in question'. Some of the content you have there, while they aren't necessarily wrong, are obvious things that people can understand just by knowing what the moves do. Dedicating a point to Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp doesn't seem very necessary when Klefki's Steel-typing and Leftovers already imply that to a degree. A bullet about Foul Play deterring / punishing setup is missing as well.

What I expect to read from Usage Tips is the ideal targets Klefki should switch into, the moves it should utilize, and warning about Klefki not being a reliable counter to most of its switch-ins. It's job is to switch into things it soft checks and laying Spikes and spreading hazards - it isn't like Arceus formes that can do it recklessly and consistently because it isn't very bulky and doesn't have recovery outsides Leftovers. To sum it up, carefully evaluate Usage Tips and see if the section itself answers the questions about "When should I use this mon, what should I do with it in what situation and what do I have to be wary about using this Pokemon" and just pretend that you are writing this for one of your friends who don't know the meta at all. Current Usage Tips seems like it is just a showcase of what Klefki's moves do and it won't successfully inform readers about the Pokemon in question.

 

[Stoward]

Just thought I'd give my 2c on this. Heads up, I'm doing this on my phone so apologies in advance if I seem repetitive.

Overview:
Not really a fan of the overview. I'm pretty sure this is the general consensus among QC members/C&C mods in any tier, but we want to see info about the Pokemon's role in a tier, rather than info about Pokemon that can just be found doing a Dex search. So I'd like to see the first point removed.

Since Klefki's role in ubers is rather unique as a hazard setter/status spreader - which I'd honestly compare more to a suicide lead rather than a steel type. I'd like to see the first point (and the analysis in general) focus on this.

I'd also remove the checking fairies/dark-type mons. It's safe to assume that based on its typing, and since it has no recovery and is pretty passive, I'm not sure how many dark or fairy-type Pokemon klefki actually beats one on one. I'd also like to see a Bullet about how it's essentially walled or setup fodder for rest/talk Pokemon such as Zygarde, Primal Kyogre and Arceus formes running refresh and recover. (I'd also like to see mentions of these in Checks and Counters)

I'd also like a bullet about Klefki's competition from other Hazard setters such as cloyster, drill deo-s, smeargle etc.

Moves:
Klefki's moves are pretty straightforward. Also worth mentioning that foul play prevents Klefki from being setup fodder for swords dance sweepers such as necrozma dm and SD arceus formes.

Will visit the rest later

 

[xapx]

While the Team Options section look better, the Usage Tips sections look too lacking in detail for me to evaluate properly. Some information are misleading ("Do not use klefki mainly to check Dark-types" when Klefki can switch into Yveltal and Arceus-Dark, listing Mega Blaziken as a target for Thunder Wave) and there are some repetitive points. The way the information is presented isn't very formal and the section doesn't say 'how to use the Pokemon in question'. Some of the content you have there, while they aren't necessarily wrong, are obvious things that people can understand just by knowing what the moves do. Dedicating a point to Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp doesn't seem very necessary when Klefki's Steel-typing and Leftovers already imply that to a degree. A bullet about Foul Play deterring / punishing setup is missing as well.

What I expect to read from Usage Tips is the ideal targets Klefki should switch into, the moves it should utilize, and warning about Klefki not being a reliable counter to most of its switch-ins. It's job is to switch into things it soft checks and laying Spikes and spreading hazards - it isn't like Arceus formes that can do it recklessly and consistently because it isn't very bulky and doesn't have recovery outsides Leftovers. To sum it up, carefully evaluate Usage Tips and see if the section itself answers the questions about "When should I use this mon, what should I do with it in what situation and what do I have to be wary about using this Pokemon" and just pretend that you are writing this for one of your friends who don't know the meta at all. Current Usage Tips seems like it is just a showcase of what Klefki's moves do and it won't successfully inform readers about the Pokemon in question.

OK I implemented these (or at least I tried)

 

[xapx]

Just thought I'd give my 2c on this. Heads up, I'm doing this on my phone so apologies in advance if I seem repetitive.

Overview:
Not really a fan of the overview. I'm pretty sure this is the general consensus among QC members/C&C mods in any tier, but we want to see info about the Pokemon's role in a tier, rather than info about Pokemon that can just be found doing a Dex search. So I'd like to see the first point removed.

Since Klefki's role in ubers is rather unique as a hazard setter/status spreader - which I'd honestly compare more to a suicide lead rather than a steel type. I'd like to see the first point (and the analysis in general) focus on this.

I'd also remove the checking fairies/dark-type mons. It's safe to assume that based on its typing, and since it has no recovery and is pretty passive, I'm not sure how many dark or fairy-type Pokemon klefki actually beats one on one. I'd also like to see a Bullet about how it's essentially walled or setup fodder for rest/talk Pokemon such as Zygarde, Primal Kyogre and Arceus formes running refresh and recover. (I'd also like to see mentions of these in Checks and Counters)

I'd also like a bullet about Klefki's competition from other Hazard setters such as cloyster, drill deo-s, smeargle etc.

Moves:
Klefki's moves are pretty straightforward. Also worth mentioning that foul play prevents Klefki from being setup fodder for swords dance sweepers such as necrozma dm and SD arceus formes.

Will visit the rest later

I'll wait for you to finish

 

[Lotus]

Just thought I'd give my 2c on this. Heads up, I'm doing this on my phone so apologies in advance if I seem repetitive.

Overview:
Not really a fan of the overview. I'm pretty sure this is the general consensus among QC members/C&C mods in any tier, but we want to see info about the Pokemon's role in a tier, rather than info about Pokemon that can just be found doing a Dex search. So I'd like to see the first point removed.

Since Klefki's role in ubers is rather unique as a hazard setter/status spreader - which I'd honestly compare more to a suicide lead rather than a steel type. I'd like to see the first point (and the analysis in general) focus on this.

I'd also remove the checking fairies/dark-type mons. It's safe to assume that based on its typing, and since it has no recovery and is pretty passive, I'm not sure how many dark or fairy-type Pokemon klefki actually beats one on one. I'd also like to see a Bullet about how it's essentially walled or setup fodder for rest/talk Pokemon such as Zygarde, Primal Kyogre and Arceus formes running refresh and recover. (I'd also like to see mentions of these in Checks and Counters)

I'd also like a bullet about Klefki's competition from other Hazard setters such as cloyster, drill deo-s, smeargle etc.

Moves:
Klefki's moves are pretty straightforward. Also worth mentioning that foul play prevents Klefki from being setup fodder for swords dance sweepers such as necrozma dm and SD arceus formes.

Will visit the rest later

I don't know if this happened because we were making a post at the same time yesterday and you were slower on mobile, but this post seems repetitive about pointing out what is needed. I also disagree on comparing Klefki with entry hazard setters like Cloyster, Excadrill, Deoxys-S, and Smeargle because they are used as dedicated leads + entry hazard setters while Klefki's job isn't to lead but to switch into Dark- and Fairy-types and find opportunities to spread status or set the hazard its team needs. This in this regard I think it would be misleading to 'remove checking fairies/dark-type mons'. Klefki is indeed too passive to beat them one on one but as I have mentioned, it will be quick to leave unfavorable matchups and its job will be crippling them with status or taking advantage of them to lay Spikes. This leads me to believe that it is much more appropriate to compare Klefki to other Steel-types instead of entry hazard setters used in teams with completely different structure - there are many other Steel-types that can pivot or set entry hazards more consistently and they are the Pokemon that Klefki struggles to compete a spot it can justify.

XxAwesomePlayzxX would you please implement my check correctly? Usage Tips currently is just a chunk of previous section below a group of points you have added. Please order them appropriately as I have mentioned:

To sum it up, carefully evaluate Usage Tips and see if the section itself answers the questions about "When should I use this mon, what should I do with it in what situation and what do I have to be wary about using this Pokemon"

The current section looks messy and you still haven't removed the bullets that I deemed irrelevant / misleading / unnecessary. Not implementing a check properly gives us a reason to justify rejecting an analysis so please do not blindly implement my feedbacks.

 

[Lotus]

Despite going through the analysis multiple times in this thread and in Discord, I don't see much improvements. Suggestions I have provided seemed to have been blindly implemented and the analysis still fails to address further details about the Pokémon's usage. The analysis as a whole fails to discuss the role of Pokemon in question. These and more flaws in the OP makes me believe that the writer is not familiar with the tier - this is clearly visible from a few major incorrect bullet points which I have directly told the writer to remove and other misleading points like 'Ground- and Steel-types can use Klefki as a setup fodder' when they will have to bear with a status move and emphasis of immunity to Dragon when resistance to Dark and Fairy are far more relevant examples to describe Klefki's defensive presence.
This many problems exist within Usage Tips and other sections like Team Options or Checks and Counters also provided irrelevant / incorrect information until I have notified the reader.

With multiple sessions of feedbacks and evidences that the writer is likely unfamiliar with the Pokemon in question, I don't believe this analysis can progress without me going through the entire analysis line by line. My advice for you to avoid this situation is to not take feedbacks from other QC's too literally, know what the each section of analysis is required to discuss (you can find this from analysis template), and most importantly, get a better grasp at a tier and the Pokemon itself.

QC Rejected 1/3

 

[Nayrz]

I'm all for helping new users get to grips with C&C but its on you to bring the experience to the table and not give us the work equivalent to ghost writing the analysis first. A lot of the analysis is generally uninformative/obvious/impractical (this is especially notable in Usage Tips) and DMDW has already given you far too much leeway and information that we are expected to be giving both on Discord and from multiple posts here, and the analysis still needs work. If we reach the point that even half the time spent writing it is used as extra to QC it, the analysis has too many issues.

It's a start, and not completely off the mark, but this is not something I as QC can accept as up to my standards or close enough to them that I'm willing to make a feedback post to bring it to standard.

QC Rejected 2/3