Klefki

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ban swagger 2014

Overview
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-spikes is good
-toxic to lure in defogers
-prankster t wave good for fast sweepers like xerneas
-can check yveltal very well
-good typing, bad stats
-taunt bait, but will move before taunt thanks to prankster
-no offensive presence
-weakness to ground-types who are also immune to t wave
-if you want to increase your chances of beating a better player when you don't know how to play, use foul play/swagger/twave/sub

Swa...Spiker
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name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Play Rough
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 SpD

Moves
========
  • Spikes are still good, you can punish Defog Arceus with Toxic.
  • Thunder Wave = emergency stop to speedy mons like Xerneas, Blaziken, Mewtwo etc
  • Toxic punishes defogers, grounds, ho-oh
  • wip

Set Details
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  • max sdef+hp makes you a little durable, takes on yveltal and xerneas quite well
  • also good evs for support arc, who you annoy like hell

Usage Tips
========

  • attempt to get up lure in defogers and toxic them, and spike when given room
  • toxic is very useful to throw out on many switches to mons like ho-oh, groudon etc
  • switch on yveltal can be good, beware of taunt though
  • generally, if your opponent has a speedy sweeper that you can stop, save klefki even if its low. prankster para comes in a handy a lot
  • don't recklessly try to wall dragons, most can bust through you easily even if you are immune to their STAB

Team Options
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  • lando-t lando-t lando-t
  • ground immunes generally good, yveltal likes spikes to pressure arceus formes
  • water resists, kyogre/palkia can pressure grounds and ho-oh p well
  • mons that appreciate spikes: ekiller, lucario, blaziken etc
  • gengar can remove defoger, but gengar fits on every goddamn team anyway
  • generally builds appreciate prankster t wave so they don't have to carry extremely solid blaze/geoxern counters

Other Options
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  • switcheroo scarf??????
  • sunny day to fucking troll kyogres ass when leading against it
  • recycle air balloon best groudon troll 2014
  • screens
  • SWAGGER+SUB
  • hp fire for defog scizor

Checks & Counters
########

  • grounds are immune to t wave
  • ho-oh
  • p much everything that can hit it hard and doesn't mind toxic or t wave TOO much
  • heatran
  • sdef kyogre
  • it's not really hard to counter, but toxic/t wave screws with a lot of mons making it quite annoying anyway
 
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um I've been using rest in the last slot to dick with support arceus and their burns more but I agree that that slot is mostly a toss up.

edit: oh the flash cannon is for the sub xerns...
 

shrang

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move 4: been using foul play, gleam, hp fire, protect, torment idk what's best really, this moveslot is usually useless or?
Sub might not be a bad idea if your method of beating of Defoggers is Toxic. When they realise they can't just spam Defog otherwise they'd end up dying, Arceus formes can Will-O-Wisp you and kind of get you into like a battle of attrition (they can Recover off some Toxic damage, switch out, then come straight back in to Defog again), while burn damage will eventually kill you. Sub prevents this.
 
I chatted with dice and tl;dr, one of the major pros to klefki is checking GeoXern and having to run a second check in case it's a sub variant is lame. Apparently the damage you take from the support arceus formes doesn't bump up too high (you only keep klefki in one the ones you resist, in other words, you are gonna switch out of water regardless) so the loss in investment isn't too bad. (i didn't look at any calcs myself)
 
Another problem is being Mega-Gengar bait. Even if Mega-Gengar doesn't hurt Klefki badly you won't hurt him too much in return, as you can't do better than a 3HKO, so you might not survive this.
Your chance is that Focus Blast poor accuracy + 25% chance of para-hax give you a chance to survive Mega-Gengar trapping.
I think Play Rough and Foul Play should be considered for the last move, for the 3HKO on Mega-Gengar and decent damage on many other foes. Play Rough might be the best option as this is the strongest move against Yveltal, dragons and boosted Xerneas. Dazzling Gleam is better if you are afraid of being burnt (hello Defog Arceus and Giratina), but isn't as strong against Mega-Gengar (you can miss the 3HKO) and boosted Xerneas. If you use Klefki, you should definitely have a backup Xerneas check or priority to deal with it at low health.
 
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Fireburn

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252+ SpA Klefki Flash Cannon vs. +2 152 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 108-128 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 112-133 (25.9 - 30.8%) (thanks Fairy Aura)

I know Play Rough can miss and jank but it lets you keep your bulk investment which is more important IMO.

Something that might be worth putting in OO is Heal Block since it trolls RestTalkers and makes the "attrition war" between you and Support Arceus easier to win.
 
Okay gonna go through all posts here

Dice -Are you suggesting 252+ satk to be the main spread for Klefki? Although it takes hits from Arceus-Formes much worse, I got nothing against it since Klefki usually comes in via immunities and forces threats out with T-wave (meaning it can easily cripple Ground/Arceus switchins with Toxic). However, Sdef has some merit too imo, just wondering what you think here.

Melee Mewtwo -Rest is definitely something to be mentioned though, if you are running a more bulky spread.

shrang -Sub will also be mentioned somewhere, thanks.

Annabeth -Klefki is hardly Gengar bait in the same sense Chansey or Blissey are (for reference). Even if it comes in safely, you can still cripple it with prankster twave, something other twave users that are bait (read chansey, grassceus, lugia) can't do. So I'd not say it's Gengar bait at all really.

Fireburn -Good suggestion, I am all for putting this in the first slash (idk if fairy aura works like that but I assume you are right). Using this move allows you to take support Arc attacks a bit better, after all.
 

Fireburn

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Fireburn -Good suggestion, I am all for putting this in the first slash (idk if fairy aura works like that but I assume you are right). Using this move allows you to take support Arc attacks a bit better, after all.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fairy_Aura_(Ability)

Fairy Aura boosts Fairy moves for all Pokemon on the field, not just Xerneas. So yeah it does work like that which is cool. At any rate I think it's better than sacrificing your bulk for Flash Cannon.
 
Confirmed that calc, so I think we should be going for the sdef spread with Play Rough as the main (and maybe single) slash since it is important to check SubGeoXern.
 
no at swagkey

Um, my only gripe with play rough is that klefki is burn bait from the support arc formes. If you opt for that move you can't abuse your resistances to switch in on them anymore, (to replace defogged hazards) just toxic as they try to come in on klefki. (why would they though unless they were desperate)
 

Fireburn

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no at swagkey

Um, my only gripe with play rough is that klefki is burn bait from the support arc formes. If you opt for that move you can't abuse your resistances to switch in on them anymore, (to replace defogged hazards) just toxic as they try to come in on klefki. (why would they though unless they were desperate)
This is only really a problem if the opponent has SubGeo Xern + Defog WoW Arceus (obv burned Klefki can't break the Sub), which is certainly possible but even so Play Rough > Flash Cannon because Flash Cannon costs too much of your bulk to make it work. Klefki isn't doing much else with 80/80 offenses besides.

edit - Just to make it clear I think the set should be Spikes/TWave/Toxic/Play Rough with maxed out special bulk and Careful nature. HP Fire is fine to mention in set comments since otherwise Klefki can't beat Skarmory (Skarm can probably handle it regardless but IDK) or Defog Mega Scizor.
 
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4 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 112-133 (25.9 - 30.8%) (thanks Fairy Aura)

I do only about 22%/24% most of the time against Xerneas on Showdown with Play Rough (against 5 different opponents, I don't think they all invest in defense...).
I guess Fairy Aura doesn't boost Fairy moves for Xerneas's opponent on Showdown ?
 
4 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 112-133 (25.9 - 30.8%) (thanks Fairy Aura)

I do only about 22%/24% most of the time against Xerneas on Showdown with Play Rough (against 5 different opponents, I don't think they all invest in defense...).
I guess Fairy Aura doesn't boost Fairy moves for Xerneas's opponent on Showdown ?
No, there would be a bigger difference. I'm not sure what Showdown's calc is doing but hand calcs match HOnko's but yet I've seen similar results when playtesting on showdown, too.
 
Hack He Must If you could get the main set fixed up and have the overview, checks counters, and other options sections all out of wip (so bascially everything but the second set for now) by tomorrow that would be really helpful for me. We are going to have the new dex live soon and need at least a place holder skeleton. (oh and if you could jump ahead and format the checks and counters section like you see in the index that would be even better)
 
A lot of Xerneas run speed just to outspeed scarf palkia and puts the rest in def. Personally I run 56atk on my klefki to allways break those subs.
56 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 200 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 99-117 (25.1 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

T-wave, Toxic, Spikes, Play rough is the only set.
Mention that you need something to KO xern after its slowed down. (Play Rough deals ok damage so you dont have to hit it when it sets up at least)
Maybe mention that its the only Xerneas check that actually decent otherwise. (Camerut 2:nd btw).
 
Considering that any attacking move is for the most part useless on Klefki due to crappy offenses Foul Play is probably the best option to hit Deoxy-S, Deoxys-A, Mewtwo-Y, and Giratina-O decently hard

0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-S: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-A: 708-834 (293.7 - 346%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 234-276 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Giratina: 134-158 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I mean it's not great, but it's honestly better than any other offensive move Klefki can run. Maybe second slash with Play Rough?
No, play rough is the only slash. check above posts for more reasoning.
 
>other options
>recycle air balloon

I bursted out laughing, shit man.

Anyways, I too have seen that the Fairy Aura doesn't work on both sides of the field as it should on Showdown. Maybe get Zarel to fix this?
 
This is what I had typed up as placeholder for the dex, take from it what you will.

Overview
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- Despite the mediocre stats, Klefki has an incredible combination of typing, movepool, and ability
- Capable of checking important threats such as Yveltal and Xerneas
- Easily finds opportunities to lay down layers of Spikes and resists the attacks of most commonly used Defog Arceus formes
- Prankster Thunder Wave lets it be a last ditch effort to stop dangerous sweepers like Mega Blaziken
- Has a low damage output meaning it is easy to use Rapid Spin on and Klefki can't do much to certain switch-ins


Spikes
########
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Play Rough
move 4: Toxic
ability: Prankster
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

Moves
========

- Spikes are an excellent entry hazard to have on one's teams even with the buffed mechanics for Defog, especially for Klefki who has no difficulty in finding opportunities to use them
- Thunder Wave notably cripples Geomancy Xerneas but it can also cripple any offensive threat like Mewtwo, Mega Blaziken, or Mega Gengar
- Play Rough allows Klefki to break Geomany Xerneas's Substitutes thanks to the boost from Fairy Aura. It's also a reliable STAB move, although weak, and it has the benefit of being able to drop the opposing Pokemon's attack stat making Klefki that much more difficult to switch into
- Toxic cripples defensive Pokemon, notably Defog Arceus formes. It may appear to clash with Thunder Wave but generally one of the two status moves outclasses the other depending on the team archetype Klefki is playing against, simplifying the decision during play.
- It's really hard to replace any move on Klefki's moveset as they all serve a significant purpose. If the roles one of those moves serve is already covered by a teammates, Foul Play is an option to punish physical attackers that attempt to take advantage of Klefki's uninvested and vulnerable physical defense.
- Rest can heal Klefki of status but it can't fit the move any more easily than it can fit Foul Play

Set Details
========

- Klefki's typing is more geared to checking special attackers like Yveltal and Xerneas making full investment in Special Defense the most optimal spread.

Usage Tips
========

- Klefki may not have much bulk but its typing and ability makes up for that by giving it wide array of resistences with few weaknesses as well as allowing it to use Spikes before getting hit or force an offensive Pokemon out with the threat of Thunder Wave. Take advantage of this to bring Klefki into play as much as possible so that it can find turns to lay down hazards.
- Burns are bothersome to Klefki as it lacks recovery making it more reliant on teammates to stall out a Toxic poisoned Pokemon. It also cripples Klefki's Play Rough but that is rarely relevent unless your opponent has a Geomany Xerneas and may be using Substitute on it.
- Don't be too wreckless with Klefki if your opponent has a means of removing hazards. Even if you manage to Toxic poison their Defog Arceus, a burned Klefki with smarter play can mean that your opponent's Defog user outlasts your Klefki's ability to lay Spikes.
- Against more offensive teams, Thunder Wave will be your status of choice. Defensive teams are much more bothered by Toxic meaning you should almost always only click that. Balanced teams tend to be more vulnerable to Toxic due to their reliance on things like Arceus but you will at times find yourself making a coin flip to decide which status to use. This is over-simplifying things but, in general, it's fairly clear from Team Preview which status move you are going to use the most.



Team Options
========

- Klefki is so full of utility and capable of covering so many roles that it doesn't really require any specific team support and can fit on just about any team
- Having a cleric is nice if you are using Klefki on a more defensive team as the game will last longer than otherwise and so a burn will have much more of an effect.
- Play Rough may have a high chance to drop a switch-ins physical attack but it's still best to have something like Landorus-T that can handle the physical attackers that are brought in to force Klefki out.
- The less opportunities your opponent finds to use Defog, the less you have to rely on Klefki to reuse Spikes. Using fast Taunter and very powerful attackers can limit how often Defog is used, if at all, so that Klefki can do more than just redo what it just did.


Other Options
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- Max special attack investment with Flash Cannon can also pop a boosted Geomany Xerneas's Substitute but it severely reduces Klefki's bulk and it's not difficult to protect Klefki from a burn if you suspect a Substitute Geomancy Xerneas.

Checks & Counters
########

**Excadrill**: Immune to both Toxic and Thunder Wave, resists Play Rough, can use Rapid Spin to clear Spikes, and can KO Klefki with Earthquake.
**Scizor**: Scizor is immune to Toxic and resists Play Rough making it very easy for it to come in on Klefki and Defog away Spikes. You might even see a Scizor setup Swords Dance on Klefki since Bullet Punch still outspeeds moves without priority even with Scizor paralyzed.
**Forretress**: Like Excadrill, Forretress is immune to Toxic and can use Rapid Spin to get rid of Spikes. It's also not bothered much by Thunder Wave and can setup Spikes of its own.
**Poison Arceus**: Poison Arceus is immune to Toxic, can burn Klefki with Will-O-Wisp, and Defog away any hazards.
**Shadow Tag**: Gothitelle can trap and remove Klefki while attempting a sweep after setting up on it, however it can't prevent Klefki from setting up three layers of Spikes. Mega Gengar can also trap and remove Klefki but it'll be paralyzed in the process and can't really prevent layers of Spikes, either. Wobbuffet can indirectly mess with Klefki by helping a Geomancy Xerneas setup and protect it for a handful of turns with Safeguard.
**Ground-types**: Landorus-T and Groudon can easily threaten to KO Klefki with STAB Earthquake while being immune to Thunder Wave. Gliscor is also immune to Toxic but its Earthquake is much weaker and will need prior damage to KO. None of these mons can remove any Spikes that are setup as they switch in. Gliscor and Landorus-T are at least immune to Spikes themselves.
**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh can switch in and destroy Klefki with STAB Sacred Fire. Although it dislikes Thunder Wave and Toxic, Regenerator and its large bulk means that it's not completely cripled, either. Ho-Oh can't clear away Spikes but it is immune to it.
**Clerics**: Aromatherapy and Heal Bell support can remove the status Klefki has spread from the opposing team and thus delay the death of their Defog user.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Gliscor is a great mon in terms of being able to force it out, unaffected by twave/toxic, can taunt/earthquake it, and set up its own stealth rock for free.
 
just a thought, but perhaps switcheroo band is a viable option here? run it with foul play, force switches, paralyze stuff or whatever, works well against excadrill since you get airballoon, probably won't matter since klefki sucks after swagger ban imo
 
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