Ubers Kyogre (revamp)

[OVERVIEW]

* Primal Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking down teams thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively both physically and specially.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switch-in and mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilize a defensive variant, making it a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also forced to use Blue Orb, which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that one very rarely reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses, as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice because it has the greatest Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Defense, granting a luckier Primal Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves a mention, however, for the ability to make the opposing Pokemon flinch instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis. The added possibility of making a lead Smeargle or Cloyster flinch is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably use Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don't get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical variant of Kyogre, since it has a chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards.
* Ice Beam complements Primal Kyogre's coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing uninvested Giratina-O after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-C.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre's coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock and 2HKO Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis is important in the Arceus-Water matchup, as it prevents the Pokemon from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and defensive Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome otherwise.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Primal Kyogre hits as hard as possible.
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre's dependence on moving first in a crowded Speed tier.
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable, as oftentimes exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre come down to which of the two is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing 2HKOs on Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play.
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to outrun. 32 HP 64 Defense EVs, for example, allow Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack-reducing nature being recommended for a set with multiple special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not reducing Kyogre's Speed or bulk is far more appreciated.

Usage Tips
========

* It's often tempting to play conservatively with Primal Kyogre, as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to exert early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It's important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team's Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock and trading with the immediate Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating Primal Groudon or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon that struggle versus a healthy Groudon or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should trade in Kyogre for getting off great damage on a threatening foe and, oftentimes, forced lines of play from the opponent.
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to Team Preview. If their Arceus forme is Water type, the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the switch-in to Kyogre, since it is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within Earthquake's KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of an OHKO versus most Primal Groudon variants, so any amount of chip damage helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Primal Kyogre can also check any lingering Necrozma-DM for Xerneas.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre's ability to pressure the metagame's premier Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn's Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rock on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two Pokemon immune to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants of Yveltal are ideal for this, as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. Life Orb Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn't at its strongest.
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar and Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing which coverage moves to use.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, are valuable teammates, as they exert greater pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre's great pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to set up late-game sweeps for these teammates.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind + Water Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Full-powered Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers from full HP. This fact is the key appeal to this Primal Kyogre set, as Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to set up Spikes, if not just outright run over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn but are interested in the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mind games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls like Blissey and Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than it. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this Kyogre set. It also complements Kyogre's Water-type STAB moves really well in general; only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciates switching into a full-powered Water Spout anyway. Arceus-Water also cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre, so it gets overwhelmed by Calm Mind-boosted attacks.
* Thunder is an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set's overall effectiveness, though, and Thunder's targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, maximum Special Attack EVs with a Modest nature are strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so it can use full-powered Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting, but the drop in power is very noticeable; most notably, Primal Kyogre loses the chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly safe middle-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in their Primal Groudon instead. It's worth noting that if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect mind game if it doesn’t want to risk having poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to set up Spikes later in the game.
* You want to be as aggressive as possible as early as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards to where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes, and coming in safely on double switches is ideal.
* If you don't see targets like Ferrothorn and Blissey at Team Preview, you don't need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than physical versions. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO, but in many situations it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable Groudon switch-in, which helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, as any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout's power.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More defensive Groudon answers like Giratina-O allow Primal Kyogre to opt for Ice Beam chip damage without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock to preserve Water Spout's power and can spread paralysis so Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, as there isn't a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess, but it is also one of the easiest Pokemon to chip down. A single Ice Beam's worth of chip damage means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas are great teammates for Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for defensive variants of Primal Kyogre. A Scald burn is the most Kyogre can threaten Ferrothorn with. The status spread in general is great for annoying foes, and the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor, but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus formes and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a timer by Toxic.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping away at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice, as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to outlast this set. It's also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stallbreaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move regardless so Kyogre can serve as a check to Calm Mind Arceus formes that aren't defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald, though, as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn't reach any notable KO benchmarks in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Primal Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexes from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running maximum Speed with a Timid nature is a viable alternative, as defensive Kyogre doesn't have the recovery or bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster notably allows it check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a Speed tie in the worst-case scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Primal Kyogre set, this one is best played conservatively.
* You aren't looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with hard hits generally don't have long-term solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game with it will typically struggle with its powerful Scalds and ability to absorb blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or be used as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre's bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. If a foe 3HKOes it, this means it can only safely switch in once, and if it is 4HKOed, its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It's ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Primal Kyogre isn't using Toxic. Zygarde, defensive Lunala, and Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it's best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful Pokemon able to punish defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-DM, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resistance, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome, as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it, as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre's only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. Thus, you shouldn't rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and use Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre's lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazard makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support from the likes of defensive Lunala and Giratina-O can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STAB attack that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical Primal Kyogre's Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral Arceus formes with full HP investment, which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus forme that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options, as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Pokemon that resist Water like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and lets Primal Kyogre easily win the one-on-one matchup thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water as it switches in when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water one-on-one, which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating Confide Blissey and Chansey. Alternatively, Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams, and it pairs well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Speed and Special Attack investment lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can, with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* An EV spread of 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe with a Mild nature is an option for sets using Liquidation. It allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-DM, and retain as much special firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages.
* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that this Primal Kyogre set doesn't have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as it can easily react to it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used versus slower teams, which will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sacrifice so Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely specially oriented or a hesitant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to both of them is recommended, as this set has the weakest matchup against them among the offensive variants of Primal Kyogre available.
* On the other hand, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to dedicate extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force Arceus-Water to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use versus Primal Groudon, but its extremely narrow coverage makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam, but the horrible accuracy is off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Primal Kyogre at least once. Its mere presence can force hesitation from Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it becomes even more difficult for Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play versus Primal Groudon, especially if it is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn's large mixed bulk, Water-type resistance, lack of weaknesses to Primal Kyogre's coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes make it one of the most consistent and threatening checks to Kyogre. Even Calm Mind + Water Spout sets have to be careful to conserve their HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate countermeasures for Ferrothorn's Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks being simply OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the one-on-one matchup when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic followed by Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a defensive or Special Attack-invested Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of.

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Primal Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch into and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre, and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of being immune to Toxic. Kyogre's Ice Beam can only help so much versus Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass's quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed make them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Primal Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantageous position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade, as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Answers**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot versus Primal Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Primal Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it, but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre's Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn't play well when you're using Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the one-on-one matchup assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check special attacker Kyogre variants, provided they don't use Liquidation, and weakened Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre, but they fare poorly versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Melee Mewtwo, 75110]]
- Earlier versions by: [[Stoward, 420389]]
- Quality checked by: [[Lotus, 434601], [Nayrz, 212134], [Minority, 222996]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [Fireflame476, 231476]]
 
Last edited:

Lotus

Bye.
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
First of all you deserve my fucking hug for writing up the whole thing on a phone. This monumental work deserves some respect.

I firmly believe we went over some points on internal discussion and I have been giving a few read-over's as you worked this through so I will be mostly nitpicky here. To me this seems like this is good as it is but I'm just posting a check here for the sake of formality and optimization (and the fact that I very dislike giving handwave checks)

For Physical Attacker set, say that Thunder also hinders Lugia's effectiveness as a check to Pogre and it does the most damage to Yveltal. Fat variants avoid 2HKO from Liquidation and Ice Beam with Leftovers. Team Options can go over Pokemon that can pressure faster 'mons. Yveltal kinda does it with LO set carrying Sucker Punch but I feel like some glue 'mons like Choice Scarf Xerneas can also be there which is always useful (especially for its cleric support to give stall even harder time).

For CM Spout set, I'd add that Blissey isn't a reliably switch-in. Usage Tips can go over about when and how to preserve Pogre's health when its Water Spout damage output becomes important (probably stall MU's)

Another good thing from using Calm Mind on Defensive set is that you now eat hits from CM Arceus formes for days. You win 1v1 because one, you obviously have superior special bulk, and two, with potential Scald burn, you do ~48% to ~56% each turn to maximum HP Arceus formes while you take significantly less damage. Not to mention that you win PP war in the first place. Also make Toxic first slash as we discussed on Discord.

For other Team Options make sure there are some anti-offense 'mons that appreciate Pogre ripping fat teams in half.

Mention regular Ogre in OO. Add Brick Break if you think it is necessary.

I would avoid talking about Palkia being an ass in the tier. I too agree it is a niche 'mon but it is currently at B- in VR and it is one of the safest switch-in to special sets. Just say that it gets shit on CM Pogre and gets 2HKOed by Earthquake with SR and some chip.

Now that's that. How are you going to implement GP checks? I would do it for you... if no one else will.


It's Sunday. Go take a nap, sir.

QC 1/3
 
Last edited:

Nayrz

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Ubers Leader
the overview is massive. points 1 + 2 can be compressed (and without the somewhat old gen mindset/mentions).

points 3 and 4 can also be combined pretty easily (change overheat to common fire attacks and u cover the mixed pdon mention anyway)

point 7 is somewhat covered by whats said in point 6 (offensive teams use pressure + speed to kill it). that can be likely removed.

the last point can also be ditched. i'd wanna see how the overview looks with the above done before i stamp.

there are a ton of "you" mentions where in smogon analyses the pokemon itself should be mentioned... just a heads up

i think i said liquidation > cm on set 4 on discord?

this is otherwise ok so tell me when the overview is fixed
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
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Moderator
The fact that Kyogre can be run on most teams is a key point of its nature and that should be reflected in the overview.

My only real hiccup with the overview was the transition to the second to last point where we go from cons back to positives, and in a way that's already been somewhat discussed. I think these last two could simply be integrated into the overview in a way that flows better.

Overall this is a good overview that hits at Kyogre's depth without being too excessively long. A few simple changes in sentence structure and bullet mergers can make this a top-notch overview.
 

Nayrz

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Ubers Leader
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so that it can use full power Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting but the drop in power is very noticable.
seems important enough to warrant a little bit of detail on missed calcs
* A healthy Arceus-Water can win the 1v1 with Toxic and Recover. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation and force the Arceus-Water to try and find another opportunity is advised.
i think the damage is way too high for this to work, 2 boosts and pulse is hitting it for like 80%, so it dies way before toxic kills you. unless its referring to kyogre straight up dueling it? it seems kinda off either way and probably reliant on misses.

otherwise, pretty good details throughout. edit the 2 points i mentioned for:

QC 2/3
 

xapx

formerly XxAwesomePlayzxX
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon; RH=remove hyphen)

It's very confusing because you keep switching between Kyogre/Primal Kyogre and Groudon/Primal Groudon when I know you're just talking about Primal. I'll leave this to official GPers but you might want to take notice of this, since newer players might wonder if you're talking about dealing with regular Groudon or Primal Groudon.

You should also try not to cross-reference between sets, as it states in the GP standards


[OVERVIEW]

* Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking teams a wallbreaker thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively from both physical and special spectrums physically and specially.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switchin switch-in and Mixed RP Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilise utilize a defensive variant, making Kyogre a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for to most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also item locked to the forced to use Blue Orb which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that it virtually reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack. I don't understand. How does a lack of speed make Primal Kyogre outright win?

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice due to it having the greatest amount of highest Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Physical Defense, (AC) allowing a luckier giving Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves mention, however, for the ability to flinch (lower case), instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis (lower case). The added possiblility possibility of flinching a lead Smeargle or Cloyster is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don’t get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical (lower case) variant of Kyogre since it has the ability to sometimes chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards. (alternatively, you can say: it can 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock.)
* Ice Beam complements your primary Water- and Ground-type coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing 0/0 Giratina-O with no HP and Special Defense investment after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde shouldn't this be put with mence and ray?, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-Complete.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre’s coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types (lower case) in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal-Kyogre (RH) after Stealth Rock and 2HKOing Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis (lower case) is important in the Arceus-Water matchup as it prevents the Pokemon Arceus-Water from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and Defensive (lower case) Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome without it.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and as a way to avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage eases prediction. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis (lower case) teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Kyogre hits as hard as possible. (I'm not sure if GP would want to keep this because of this)
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre’s dependence on moving first in a crowded speed tier. (Same with this sentence)
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable as often times exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre it comes down to which of the two whether Primal Kyogre or the opposing Primal Groudon is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing will fail to achieve 2HKOs on Primal Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play. (I think it's mandatory to mention Primal because it's a 0% to 3HKO on regular Groudon)
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to cannot outrun even with maximum Speed investment, anyways. 32 HP with 64 Defense, for example, allows Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack reducing nature being recommended for a set with multiple Special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not Kyogre doesn't appreciate reduced bulk or being outsped in a crowded speed tier, so reducing Kyogre’s Speed or bulk is far more appreciated not recommended.

Usage Tips
========

* It’s often tempting to play conservatively with Kyogre as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to abuse early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It’s important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team’s Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to setup set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock or trading with the immediate threat of Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating The removal of Primal Groudon from a game or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon teammates that struggle vs a healthy Groudon and/or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should « cash » in Kyogre for the damage and, often times, forced lines of play from the opponent.
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to team preview. If their Arceus forme is Water-type, the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the mostly safe safest switch-in to Kyogre since Arceus-Water is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a to sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within range of an Earthquake KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of a an OHKO vs versus most Primal Groudon variants so any amount of chip helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Any lingering Necrozma-DM can also be checked by Primal Kyogre for the Scarf Xerneas, as well.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre’s ability to pressure the metagame’s premier Stealth Rock setter. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn’s Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into a Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rocks that were set on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two immunities to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants are ideal for this as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. LO Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn’t at its strongest doesn't have the best matchup against the opposing team. (I'm assuming that's what you meant)
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis Paralysis from Thunder is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a this popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar or Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing with coverage moves a prediction reliant turn.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, valuable teammates as they have stronger pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre’s powerful pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to setup late game sweeps for opens a door for these teammates to sweep late-game.

[SET]
name: CM Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers on a empty field with no chip on either Pokemon without prior damage from a Kyogre with maximum HP. This fact is the key appeal to this Kyogre set. Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to potentially deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to setup set up Spikes, if not just outright running over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn’s but are interested in enjoys the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mind (add space) games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the 2HKO from Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls, (RC) like Blissey or Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than Kyogre. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this specially (lower case) oriented Kyogre. It also complements Kyogre’s Water-type STAB really well, in general. Only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciate appreciates switching into a healthy Water Spout with maximum power, anyways however. Arceus-Water also can not cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre so it gets will eventually get overwhelmed by Calm Mind boosted attacks.
* Thunder is still an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set’s overall effectiveness in doing so, though, and Thunder’s targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, max Special Attack EVs investment with a Modest nature is strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so that it can use full power Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting but the drop in power is very noticable noticeable, (Remove period, AC) most (lower case) notably when fighting Ferrothorn as you lose the chance to 2HKO it without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest most secure way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly a safe mid-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in into their Primal Groudon instead. It’s worth noting that, if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect 50/50 activating twice in a row if it doesn’t want to risk having getting poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case (AH) scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to set (add space) up Spikes later in the game.
* Much like the physical Kyogre set, you want to (Don't compare sets) You should be as aggressive as possible as you can in early-games as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes and coming in safely on double switchs switches is ideal.
* If you don’t see targets like Ferrothorn or Blissey at team preview, you don’t need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout's strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than the physical version. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO but, in many situations, it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable predicted switch to Groudon switchin. It helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More reactive reliable Groudon answers, like Giratina-O, allow you to opt for Ice Beam chip without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock for Water Spout and can spread paralysis so that Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation and force the Arceus-Water to try and find another opportunity Arceus-Water with Toxic (like Gothitelle or Ferrothorn) (I'm just giving these examples because "try and find another opportunity" seems pretty weird when I read it. Please feel free to change them to more viable options that can take Toxic and pressure Arceus-Water.) is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, (RC, add period) There (Uppercase) isn’t a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess but it is also one of the easist Pokemon to chip. A single Ice Beam’s worth of chip means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon, like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas, are great teammates for CM Spout Calm Mind Water Spout Primal Kyogre for the same reasons that they perform well with Physical Attacker. as they are able to ease Primal Kyogre's unfavorable matchups.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for Defensive variants of Kyogre. The ability to burn Ferrothorn is the most Kyogre can threaten it with. The status spread in general is great for harassment Scald burns annoy physical attackers and the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large high Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only forme form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a Toxic timer.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from happily switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to deal with this set’s longevity. It’s also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stall breaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move, regardless, so that Kyogre can serve as a check to CM Arceus formes that aren’t defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn’t reach any notable KO benchmarks, (RC) in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexs from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running max Speed Timid is a viable alternative. Defensive Kyogre doesn’t have the recovery nor bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster allows it to check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a speed-tie in the worst case scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Kyogre set, this one Defensive Primal Kyogre is best played conservatively.
* You aren’t looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with strong hits, (RC) generally don’t have long-term (AH) solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game vs versus it, (RC) will typically struggle with the powerful Scalds and the ability to keep absorbing blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like Mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre’s bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. 3HKOs means it can only safely switch in once. 4HKOs means that its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It’s ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Kyogre isn’t using Toxic. Zygarde, Defensive Lunala, or Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it’s best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful punish to Defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-Dusk Mane, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resist, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated, but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre’s only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. You shouldn’t rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre’s lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazards makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support, like Defensive Lunala or Giratina-O, can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter: in Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STAB that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical (lower case) Primal Kyogre’s Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral 248/0 Arceus formes with 248 HP EVs which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Water-type resists, like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and easily wins the 1v1 thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water switch-ins (AH) when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water 1v1 which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating special walls like Confide Blissey and Chansey. Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams and it combos well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* The EV spread remains fairly simple when using only special attacks. Max Speed and Special Attack lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe Mild is an option for sets using Liquidation. The given spread allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, and retain as much Special Attack firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages. The recommendations there apply here as well.
* This set should be taken advantage early-game to force the opponent to weaken several Pokemon, allowing Primal Kyogre's teammates to sweep more easily mid-game or late-game.

* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that Special Attacker doesn’t have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as Kyogre can easily react to threaten it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used vs slower teams who will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sack so that Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely Special Attack oriented or a hesistant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to the both of them is recommended as Special Attacker Kyogre has the weakest matchup against them amongst the offensive variants of Kyogre available.
* On the contrary, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to invest extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force the Arceus to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle vs versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use vs Primal Groudon but the extremely narrow coverage it provodes provides makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective (RH) damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche means mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam but the horrible accuracy if off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Kyogre at least once. The mere presence of Primal Groudon can force hesitation from the Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it is all the more difficult for the Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play vs versus a Primal Groudon, especially if the Kyogre is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn’s large mixed bulk, resistance to Water-type attacks resistance, lack of weaknesses to Kyogre’s coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes makes it one of the most consistent and threatening check to Kyogre. Even CM Spout Kyogre has to be careful to conserve its HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other Kyogre variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate counter measures countermeasures for Ferrothorn’s Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks the threat of being simply OHKO’d OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs has several risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the 1v1 when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic into Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a Defensive or Special Attack Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of.

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch in and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of a Toxic immunity. Kyogre’s Ice Beam can only help so much vs Mega Venusaur’s Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass’s quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjuction conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each All of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed makes them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantaged position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful manœuvres maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Resistances**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot vs Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre’s Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn’t play well with Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the 1v1 assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check Special Attacker Kyogre variants, given that they don’t use Liquidation, and weakened CM Spout Kyogres but fair poorly vs versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[, ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]][/QUOTE]
 
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon; RH=remove hyphen)

It's very confusing because you keep switching between Kyogre/Primal Kyogre and Groudon/Primal Groudon when I know you're just talking about Primal. I'll leave this to official GPers but you might want to take notice of this, since newer players might wonder if you're talking about dealing with regular Groudon or Primal Groudon.

You should also try not to cross-reference between sets, as it states in the GP standards

[OVERVIEW]

* Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking teams a wallbreaker thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively from both physical and special spectrums physically and specially.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switchin switch-in and Mixed RP Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilise utilize a defensive variant, making Kyogre a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for to most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also item locked to the forced to use Blue Orb which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that it virtually reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack. I don't understand. How does a lack of speed make Primal Kyogre outright win?

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice due to it having the greatest amount of highest Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Physical Defense, (AC) allowing a luckier giving Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves mention, however, for the ability to flinch (lower case), instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis (lower case). The added possiblility possibility of flinching a lead Smeargle or Cloyster is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don’t get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical (lower case) variant of Kyogre since it has the ability to sometimes chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards. (alternatively, you can say: it can 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon after Stealth Rock.)
* Ice Beam complements your primary Water- and Ground-type coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing 0/0 Giratina-O with no HP and Special Defense investment after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde shouldn't this be put with mence and ray?, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-Complete.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre’s coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types (lower case) in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal-Kyogre (RH) after Stealth Rock and 2HKOing Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis (lower case) is important in the Arceus-Water matchup as it prevents the Pokemon Arceus-Water from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and Defensive (lower case) Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome without it.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and as a way to avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage eases prediction. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis (lower case) teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Kyogre hits as hard as possible. (I'm not sure if GP would want to keep this because of this)
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre’s dependence on moving first in a crowded speed tier. (Same with this sentence)
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable as often times exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre it comes down to which of the two whether Primal Kyogre or the opposing Primal Groudon is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing will fail to achieve 2HKOs on Primal Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play. (I think it's mandatory to mention Primal because it's a 0% to 3HKO on regular Groudon)
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to cannot outrun even with maximum Speed investment, anyways. 32 HP with 64 Defense, for example, allows Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack reducing nature being recommended for a set with multiple Special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not Kyogre doesn't appreciate reduced bulk or being outsped in a crowded speed tier, so reducing Kyogre’s Speed or bulk is far more appreciated not recommended.

Usage Tips
========

* It’s often tempting to play conservatively with Kyogre as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to abuse early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It’s important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team’s Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to setup set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock or trading with the immediate threat of Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating The removal of Primal Groudon from a game or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon teammates that struggle vs a healthy Groudon and/or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should « cash » in Kyogre for the damage and, often times, forced lines of play from the opponent.
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to team preview. If their Arceus forme is Water-type, the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the mostly safe safest switch-in to Kyogre since Arceus-Water is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a to sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within range of an Earthquake KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of a an OHKO vs versus most Primal Groudon variants so any amount of chip helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Any lingering Necrozma-DM can also be checked by Primal Kyogre for the Scarf Xerneas, as well.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre’s ability to pressure the metagame’s premier Stealth Rock setter. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn’s Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into a Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rocks that were set on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two immunities to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants are ideal for this as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. LO Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn’t at its strongest doesn't have the best matchup against the opposing team. (I'm assuming that's what you meant)
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis Paralysis from Thunder is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a this popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar or Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing with coverage moves a prediction reliant turn.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, valuable teammates as they have stronger pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre’s powerful pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to setup late game sweeps for opens a door for these teammates to sweep late-game.

[SET]
name: CM Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers on a empty field with no chip on either Pokemon without prior damage from a Kyogre with maximum HP. This fact is the key appeal to this Kyogre set. Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to potentially deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to setup set up Spikes, if not just outright running over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn’s but are interested in enjoys the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mind (add space) games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the 2HKO from Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls, (RC) like Blissey or Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than Kyogre. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this specially (lower case) oriented Kyogre. It also complements Kyogre’s Water-type STAB really well, in general. Only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciate appreciates switching into a healthy Water Spout with maximum power, anyways however. Arceus-Water also can not cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre so it gets will eventually get overwhelmed by Calm Mind boosted attacks.
* Thunder is still an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set’s overall effectiveness in doing so, though, and Thunder’s targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, max Special Attack EVs investment with a Modest nature is strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so that it can use full power Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting but the drop in power is very noticable noticeable, (Remove period, AC) most (lower case) notably when fighting Ferrothorn as you lose the chance to 2HKO it without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest most secure way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly a safe mid-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in into their Primal Groudon instead. It’s worth noting that, if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect 50/50 activating twice in a row if it doesn’t want to risk having getting poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case (AH) scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to set (add space) up Spikes later in the game.
* Much like the physical Kyogre set, you want to (Don't compare sets) You should be as aggressive as possible as you can in early-games as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes and coming in safely on double switchs switches is ideal.
* If you don’t see targets like Ferrothorn or Blissey at team preview, you don’t need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout's strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than the physical version. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO but, in many situations, it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable predicted switch to Groudon switchin. It helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More reactive reliable Groudon answers, like Giratina-O, allow you to opt for Ice Beam chip without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock for Water Spout and can spread paralysis so that Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation and force the Arceus-Water to try and find another opportunity Arceus-Water with Toxic (like Gothitelle or Ferrothorn) (I'm just giving these examples because "try and find another opportunity" seems pretty weird when I read it. Please feel free to change them to more viable options that can take Toxic and pressure Arceus-Water.) is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, (RC, add period) There (Uppercase) isn’t a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess but it is also one of the easist Pokemon to chip. A single Ice Beam’s worth of chip means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon, like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas, are great teammates for CM Spout Calm Mind Water Spout Primal Kyogre for the same reasons that they perform well with Physical Attacker. as they are able to ease Primal Kyogre's unfavorable matchups.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for Defensive variants of Kyogre. The ability to burn Ferrothorn is the most Kyogre can threaten it with. The status spread in general is great for harassment Scald burns annoy physical attackers and the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large high Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only forme form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a Toxic timer.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from happily switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to deal with this set’s longevity. It’s also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stall breaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move, regardless, so that Kyogre can serve as a check to CM Arceus formes that aren’t defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn’t reach any notable KO benchmarks, (RC) in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexs from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running max Speed Timid is a viable alternative. Defensive Kyogre doesn’t have the recovery nor bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster allows it to check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a speed-tie in the worst case scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Kyogre set, this one Defensive Primal Kyogre is best played conservatively.
* You aren’t looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with strong hits, (RC) generally don’t have long-term (AH) solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game vs versus it, (RC) will typically struggle with the powerful Scalds and the ability to keep absorbing blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like Mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre’s bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. 3HKOs means it can only safely switch in once. 4HKOs means that its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It’s ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Kyogre isn’t using Toxic. Zygarde, Defensive Lunala, or Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it’s best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful punish to Defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-Dusk Mane, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resist, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated, but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre’s only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. You shouldn’t rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre’s lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazards makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support, like Defensive Lunala or Giratina-O, can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter: in Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STAB that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical (lower case) Primal Kyogre’s Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral 248/0 Arceus formes with 248 HP EVs which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Water-type resists, like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and easily wins the 1v1 thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water switch-ins (AH) when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water 1v1 which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating special walls like Confide Blissey and Chansey. Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams and it combos well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* The EV spread remains fairly simple when using only special attacks. Max Speed and Special Attack lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe Mild is an option for sets using Liquidation. The given spread allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, and retain as much Special Attack firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages. The recommendations there apply here as well.
* This set should be taken advantage early-game to force the opponent to weaken several Pokemon, allowing Primal Kyogre's teammates to sweep more easily mid-game or late-game.

* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that Special Attacker doesn’t have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as Kyogre can easily react to threaten it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used vs slower teams who will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sack so that Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely Special Attack oriented or a hesistant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to the both of them is recommended as Special Attacker Kyogre has the weakest matchup against them amongst the offensive variants of Kyogre available.
* On the contrary, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to invest extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force the Arceus to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle vs versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use vs Primal Groudon but the extremely narrow coverage it provodes provides makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective (RH) damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche means mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam but the horrible accuracy if off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Kyogre at least once. The mere presence of Primal Groudon can force hesitation from the Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it is all the more difficult for the Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play vs versus a Primal Groudon, especially if the Kyogre is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn’s large mixed bulk, resistance to Water-type attacks resistance, lack of weaknesses to Kyogre’s coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes makes it one of the most consistent and threatening check to Kyogre. Even CM Spout Kyogre has to be careful to conserve its HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other Kyogre variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate counter measures countermeasures for Ferrothorn’s Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks the threat of being simply OHKO’d OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs has several risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the 1v1 when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic into Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a Defensive or Special Attack Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of.

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch in and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of a Toxic immunity. Kyogre’s Ice Beam can only help so much vs Mega Venusaur’s Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass’s quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjuction conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each All of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed makes them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantaged position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful manœuvres maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Resistances**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot vs Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre’s Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn’t play well with Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the 1v1 assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check Special Attacker Kyogre variants, given that they don’t use Liquidation, and weakened CM Spout Kyogres but fair poorly vs versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[, ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
[/QUOTE]
is it at all possible to have a copy/paste version of this? im on mobile so its not easy for me to edit in all the changes. thanks, in any case
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

ace of wands
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator
C&C & TFP Leader
not working directly on top of the amcheck for readability but stealing the changes i agree with

re. primal i'm just gonna treat it the same way as mega but i won't care if the next GPer wants to add it throughout

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2
[OVERVIEW]

* Primal Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking down teams thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively from both physically and specially spectrums.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switchin switch-in and mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilise utilize a defensive variant, making Kyogre a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also item locked to the forced to use Blue Orb, (AC) which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that it virtually reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack. (ya I don't get this bullet either tbh)

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice due to it having because it has the greatest amount of Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Physical Defense, (AC) allowing granting a luckier Primal Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves a mention, however, for the ability to make the opposing Pokemon flinch (RC) instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis. The added possiblility possibility of flinching making a lead Smeargle or Cloyster flinch is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don’t don't (slanted apostrophe) get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical variant of Kyogre, (AC) since it has the ability to sometimes a chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards.
* Ice Beam complements your Primal Kyogre's primary Water- and Ground-type coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing 0/0 uninvested Giratina-O after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-Complete.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre’s Kyogre's coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal Kyogre (RH) after Stealth Rock and 2HKOing Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis is important in the Arceus-Water matchup, (AC) as it prevents the Pokemon from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and defensive Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome without it otherwise.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and as a way to avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Primal Kyogre hits as hard as possible.
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre’s Kyogre's dependence on moving first in a crowded Speed tier.
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable, (AC) as often times oftentimes exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre comes come down to which of the two is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing 2HKOs on Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play.
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to outrun, anyways. 32 HP with 64 Defense EVs, for example, allows allow Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack-reducing (AH) nature being recommended for a set with multiple special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not reducing Kyogre’s Kyogre's Speed or bulk is far more appreciated.

Usage Tips
========

* It’s It's often tempting to play conservatively with Primal Kyogre, (AC) as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to abuse exert early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It’s It's important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team’s team's Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to setup set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock or and trading with the immediate Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating Primal Groudon or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon that struggle vs versus a healthy Groudon and/or or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should « cash » cash in Kyogre for the damage and, often times oftentimes, forced lines of play from the opponent. (this is a tad vague too, don't want to keep "cash in" but not sure what means here)
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to Team Preview. If their Arceus forme is Water type, (RH) the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the mostly safe switch-in to Kyogre, (AC) since Arceus-Water it is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within Earthquake's KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of an OHKO vs versus most Primal Groudon variants, (AC) so any amount of chip damage helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Primal Kyogre can also check any lingering Necrozma-DM can be checked by Primal Kyogre for the Scarf Xerneas (RC) as well.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre’s Kyogre's ability to pressure the metagame’s metagame's premier Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn’s Ferrothorn's Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into a Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rocks that were set on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two immunities Pokemon immune to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants of Yveltal are ideal for this, (AC) as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. LO Life Orb Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn’t isn't at its strongest.
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar or an Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing with which coverage moves to use.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, valuable teammates, (AC) as they have stronger exert greater pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre’s powerful Kyogre's great pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to setup set up late-game (AH) sweeps for these teammates.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind + Water Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Full-powered Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers on a empty field with no chip on either Pokemon from full HP. (hard to follow again, make sure this is correct) This fact is the key appeal to this Primal Kyogre set, (comma) as Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to setup set up Spikes, if not just outright running run over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn’s but are interested in the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mindgames mind games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls (RC) like Blissey or and Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than Kyogre it. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this specially oriented Kyogre. It also complements Kyogre’s Kyogre's Water-type STAB really well (RC) in general; (SC) only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciates switching into a healthy full-powered Water Spout (RC) anyways. Arceus-Water also can not cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre, (AC) so it gets overwhelmed by Calm Mind-boosted (AH) attacks.
* Thunder is still an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set’s set's overall effectiveness in doing so, though, and Thunder’s Thunder's targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, maximum Special Attack EVs with a Modest nature is are strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so that it can use full-powered (AH) Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting, (AC) but the drop in power is very noticeable; (SC) most notably, (AC) when fighting Ferrothorn as you lose Primal Kyogre loses the chance to 2HKO it Ferrothorn without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly safe middle-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in their Primal Groudon instead. It’s It's worth noting that, if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect 50/50 mind game if it doesn’t want to risk having poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case (AH) scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to setup set up Spikes later in the game.
* Much like the physical Kyogre set, You want to be as aggressive as possible as early as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes and coming in safely on double switchs switches is ideal.
* If you don’t don't see targets like Ferrothorn or and Blissey at Team Preview, you don’t don't need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than the physical versions. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO, (AC) but (RC) in many situations (RC) it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable Groudon switchin. It switch-in, which helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, as any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout's power.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More reactive defensive / sturdy Groudon answers (RC) like Giratina-O (RC) allow you Primal Kyogre to opt for Ice Beam chip without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock for to preserve Water Spout's power and can spread paralysis so that Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation and force the Arceus-Water to try and find another opportunity (ya implied tbh) is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, as there isn’t isn't a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess, (AC) but it is also one of the easist Pokemon to chip down. A single Ice Beam’s Beam's worth of chip damage means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon (RC) like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas (RC) are great teammates for Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre for the same reasons that they perform well with Physical Attacker. (restate these reasons pls so that ppl don't have to jump to other sets)

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for defensive variants of Primal Kyogre. The ability to burn Ferrothorn A Scald burn is the most Kyogre can threaten it Ferrothorn with. The status spread in general is great for harassment annoying foes and while the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only forme form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor, (AC) but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus formes and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a Toxic timer by Toxic.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping away at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice, (AC) as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from happily switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to deal with this set’s longevity outlast this set. It’s It's also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stall breaker stallbreaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move (RC) regardless (RC) so that Kyogre can serve as a check to Calm Mind Arceus formes that aren’t aren't defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald, though, as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn’t doesn't reach any notable KO benchmarks (RC) in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Primal Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexes from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running maximum Speed with a Timid nature is a viable alternative, (comma) as defensive Kyogre doesn’t doesn't have the recovery nor or bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster notably allows it check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a Speed tie (RH) in the worst-case (AH) scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Primal Kyogre set, this one is best played conservatively.
* You aren’t aren't looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with strong hard hits (RC) generally don’t don't have long-term (AH) solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game vs with it (RC) will typically struggle with the its powerful Scalds and ability to absorb blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre’s Kyogre's bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. 3HKOs If a foe 3HKOes it, this means it can only safely switch in once, (comma) 4HKOs means that and if it is 4HKOed, its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It’s It's ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Primal Kyogre isn’t isn't using Toxic. Zygarde, defensive Lunala, or and Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it’s it's best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful Pokemon able to punish to defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resistance, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome, (CA) as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it, (AC) as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated (RC) but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre’s Kyogre's only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. Thus, you shouldn’t shouldn't rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre’s Kyogre's lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazard makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support (RC) from the likes of defensive Lunala or and Giratina-O (RC) can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter, (comma) Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STABattack that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical Primal Kyogre’s Kyogre's Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral 248/0 Arceus formes with full HP investment, which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options, (AC) as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Water-type resists, Pokemon that resist Water like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and lets Primal Kyogre easily wins the 1v1 one-on-one matchup thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water switch-ins (AH) when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water 1v1 one-on-one, which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating Confide Blissey and Chansey. Alternatively, Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams, (AC) and it combos pairs well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* The EV spread remains fairly simple when using only special attacks. Maximum Speed and Special Attack investment lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can, (AC) with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* A spread of 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe with a Mild nature is an option for sets using Liquidation. The given spread allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-Dusk Mane Necrozma-DM, and retain as much Special Attack special firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages. The recommendations there apply here as well. (restate em)
* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that Special Attacker this Primal Kyogre set doesn’t doesn't have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as Kyogre it can easily react to it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used vs versus slower teams, (AC) who which will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sack sacrifice so that Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely Special Attack specially oriented or a hesistant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to the both of them is recommended, (AC) as Special Attacker Kyogre this set has the weakest matchup against them amongst the offensive variants of Primal Kyogre available.
* On the contrary other hand, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to invest dedicate extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force the Arceus to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle vs versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use vs versus Primal Groudon, (AC) but the its extremely narrow coverage it provodes makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective (RH) damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche means mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam, (AC) but the horrible accuracy if is off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Primal Kyogre at least once. The Its mere presence of Primal Groudon can force hesitation from the Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it is all the becomes even more difficult for the Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play vs versus Primal Groudon, especially if the Kyogre it is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn’s Ferrothorn's large mixed bulk, Water-type resistance, lack of weaknesses to Kyogre’s Primal Kyogre's coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes makes make it one of the most consistent and threatening check to Kyogre. Even Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre has sets have to be careful to conserve its their HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other Kyogre variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate counter measures countermeasures for Ferrothorn’s Ferrothorn's Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks the threat of being simply OHKO’d OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the 1v1 one-on-one matchup when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic intofollowed by Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a defensive or Special Attack-invested Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of.

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Primal Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch in on and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre, (AC) and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of a Toxic immunity. Kyogre’s Kyogre's Ice Beam can only help so much vs versus Mega Venusaur’s Venusaur's Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass’s Arceus-Grass's quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjuction conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed makes make them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantaged position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful manœuvres maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade, (AC) as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Resistances Answers**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot vs versus Primal Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Primal Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it, (AC) but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre’s Kyogre's Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn’t doesn't play well with when you're using Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the 1v1 one-on-one matchup assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and Support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check special attacker Kyogre variants, given that provided they don’t don't use Liquidation, and weakened Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre, (AC) but fair they fare poorly vs versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[, ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]


gonna make you a copypaste now bc i see the above posts but be sure to still address the comments i left
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

ace of wands
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator
C&C & TFP Leader
[OVERVIEW]

* Primal Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking down teams thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively both physically and specially.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switch-in and mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilize a defensive variant, making Kyogre a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also forced to use Blue Orb, which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that it virtually reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice because it has the greatest Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Defense, granting a luckier Primal Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves a mention, however, for the ability to make the opposing Pokemon flinch instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis. The added possibility of making a lead Smeargle or Cloyster flinch is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don't get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical variant of Kyogre, since it has a chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards.
* Ice Beam complements Primal Kyogre's primary Water- and Ground-type coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing uninvested Giratina-O after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-C.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre's coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock and 2HKOing Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis is important in the Arceus-Water matchup, as it prevents the Pokemon from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and defensive Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome otherwise.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Primal Kyogre hits as hard as possible.
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre's dependence on moving first in a crowded Speed tier.
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable, as oftentimes exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre come down to which of the two is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing 2HKOs on Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play.
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to outrun. 32 HP with 64 Defense EVs, for example, allow Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack-reducing nature being recommended for a set with multiple special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not reducing Kyogre's Speed or bulk is far more appreciated.

Usage Tips
========

* It's often tempting to play conservatively with Primal Kyogre, as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to exert early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It's important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team's Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock and trading with the immediate Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating Primal Groudon or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon that struggle versus a healthy Groudon or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should cash in Kyogre for the damage and, oftentimes, forced lines of play from the opponent.
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to Team Preview. If their Arceus forme is Water type, the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the switch-in to Kyogre, since it is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within Earthquake's KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of an OHKO versus most Primal Groudon variants, so any amount of chip damage helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Primal Kyogre can also check any lingering Necrozma-DM for Xerneas.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre's ability to pressure the metagame's premier Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn's Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into a Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rock on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two Pokemon immune to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants of Yveltal are ideal for this, as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. Life Orb Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn't at its strongest.
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar and Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing which coverage moves to use.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, valuable teammates, as they exert greater pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre's great pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to set up late-game sweeps for these teammates.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind + Water Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Full-powered Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers from full HP. This fact is the key appeal to this Primal Kyogre set, as Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to set up Spikes, if not just outright run over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn but are interested in the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mind games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls like Blissey and Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than it. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this specially oriented Kyogre. It also complements Kyogre's Water-type STAB really well in general; only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciates switching into a full-powered Water Spout anyway. Arceus-Water also cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre, so it gets overwhelmed by Calm Mind-boosted attacks.
* Thunder is an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set's overall effectiveness, though, and Thunder's targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, maximum Special Attack EVs with a Modest nature are strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so that it can use full-powered Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting, but the drop in power is very noticeable; most notably, Primal Kyogre loses the chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly safe middle-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in their Primal Groudon instead. It's worth noting that, if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect mind game if it doesn’t want to risk having poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to set up Spikes later in the game.
* You want to be as aggressive as possible as early as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes and coming in safely on double switches is ideal.
* If you don't see targets like Ferrothorn and Blissey at Team Preview, you don't need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than physical versions. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO, but in many situations it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable Groudon switch-in, which helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, as any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout's power.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More defensive Groudon answers like Giratina-O allow Primal Kyogre to opt for Ice Beam chip damage without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock to preserve Water Spout's power and can spread paralysis so that Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, as there isn't a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess, (AC) but it is also one of the easist Pokemon to chip down. A single Ice Beam's worth of chip damage means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas are great teammates for Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre for the same reasons that they perform well with the physical attacker.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for defensive variants of Primal Kyogre. A Scald burn is the most Kyogre can threaten Ferrothorn with. The status spread in general is great for annoying foes, and the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor, but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus formes and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a timer by Toxic.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping away at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice, as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to outlast this set. It's also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stallbreaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move regardless so that Kyogre can serve as a check to Calm Mind Arceus formes that aren't defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald, though, as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn't reach any notable KO benchmarks in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Primal Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexes from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running maximum Speed with a Timid nature is a viable alternative, as defensive Kyogre doesn't have the recovery or bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster notably allows it check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a Speed tie in the worst-case scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Primal Kyogre set, this one is best played conservatively.
* You aren't looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with hard hits generally don't have long-term solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game with it will typically struggle with its powerful Scalds and ability to absorb blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre's bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. If a foe 3HKOes it, this means it can only safely switch in once, and if it is 4HKOed, its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It's ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Primal Kyogre isn't using Toxic. Zygarde, defensive Lunala, and Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it's best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful Pokemon able to punish defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-DM, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resistance, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome, as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it, as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre's only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. Thus, you shouldn't rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre's lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazard makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support from the likes of defensive Lunala and Giratina-O can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STAB attack that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical Primal Kyogre's Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral Arceus formes with full HP investment, which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options, as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Pokemon that resist Water like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and lets Primal Kyogre easily wins the one-on-one matchup thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water switch-ins when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water one-on-one, which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating Confide Blissey and Chansey. Alternatively, Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams, and it pairs well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* The EV spread remains fairly simple when using only special attacks. Maximum Speed and Special Attack investment lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can, with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* A spread of 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe with a Mild nature is an option for sets using Liquidation. The given spread allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-DM, and retain as much special firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages. The recommendations there apply here as well.
* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that this Primal Kyogre set doesn't have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as it can easily react to it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used versus slower teams, which will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sacrifice so that Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely specially oriented or a hesistant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to both of them is recommended, as this set has the weakest matchup against them amongst the offensive variants of Primal Kyogre available.
* On the other hand, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to dedicate extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force the Arceus to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use versus Primal Groudon, but its extremely narrow coverage makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam, but the horrible accuracy is off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Primal Kyogre at least once. Its mere presence can force hesitation from Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it becomes even more difficult for the Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play versus Primal Groudon, especially if it is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn's large mixed bulk, Water-type resistance, lack of weaknesses to Primal Kyogre's coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes make it one of the most consistent and threatening check to Kyogre. Even Calm Mind + Water Spout sets have to be careful to conserve their HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate countermeasures for Ferrothorn's Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks being simply OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the one-on-one matchup when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic followed by Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a defensive or Special Attack-invested Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of.

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Primal Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch in on and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre, and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of a Toxic immunity. Kyogre's Ice Beam can only help so much versus Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass's quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed make them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Primal Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantaged position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade, as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Answers**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot versus Primal Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Primal Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it, but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre's Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn't play well when you're using Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the one-on-one matchup assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and Support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check special attacker Kyogre variants, provided they don't use Liquidation, and weakened Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre, but they fare poorly versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[, ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
comment 1: was trying to explain why kyogre is better early game vs late game. (its a breaker not a sweeper) what should i change to be more clear?

comment 2: i was using cash in to let kyogre die in exchange for the damage it can deal. either sacing in exchange for chip or killing a mon that leaves u at 20%. (so basically a ded that wont be a threat anymore) basically it ties back to what i was saying in the last bullet of the overview. is there a better expresion for this?

ill implement all the other stuff. for the spots where i reference other pgre sets, should i just tack on a quick recap sentence or two? or is it better to replace the bit where i make the set reference with all the reasonings in detail?
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

ace of wands
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator
C&C & TFP Leader
comment 1: was trying to explain why kyogre is better early game vs late game. (its a breaker not a sweeper) what should i change to be more clear?
Might just be a misunderstanding on "virtually" then, I'd just do "means that one very rarely reaches a gamestate" and leave it at that. Also put a comma before "as" in the following sentence bc I didn't actually touch that bullet at all oops.

comment 2: i was using cash in to let kyogre die in exchange for the damage it can deal. either sacing in exchange for chip or killing a mon that leaves u at 20%. (so basically a ded that wont be a threat anymore) basically it ties back to what i was saying in the last bullet of the overview. is there a better expresion for this?
"trade in Kyogre for getting off great damage on a threatening foe" will work

ill implement all the other stuff. for the spots where i reference other pgre sets, should i just tack on a quick recap sentence or two? or is it better to replace the bit where i make the set reference with all the reasonings in detail?
I don't particularly care as long as the reader gets all the necessary information from that set alone, without having to read any of the other sets.
 

Fireflame479

Star Wars guy
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Regular Kyogre doesn't have a set on here so I'm fine with leaving all Kyogre/Primal Kyogre mentions as is, especially considering this analysis's length.

Remove Add Comments (AC)= add comma (RC)= remove comma (AH)= add hyphen (RH)= remove hyphen
[OVERVIEW]

* Primal Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking down teams thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively both physically and specially.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switch-in and mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilize a defensive variant, making Kyogre it a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also forced to use Blue Orb, which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that one very rarely reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses, as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice because it has the greatest Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Defense, granting a luckier Primal Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves a mention, however, for the ability to make the opposing Pokemon flinch instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis. The added possibility of making a lead Smeargle or Cloyster flinch is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably use Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don't get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical variant of Kyogre, since it has a chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards.
* Ice Beam complements Primal Kyogre's primary Water- and Ground-type coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing uninvested Giratina-O after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-C.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre's coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock and 2HKOing 2HKO Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis is important in the Arceus-Water matchup, as it prevents the Pokemon from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and defensive Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome otherwise.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Primal Kyogre hits as hard as possible.
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre's dependence on moving first in a crowded Speed tier.
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable, as oftentimes exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre come down to which of the two is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing 2HKOs on Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play.
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to outrun. 32 HP with 64 Defense EVs, for example, allow Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack-reducing nature being recommended for a set with multiple special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not reducing Kyogre's Speed or bulk is far more appreciated.

Usage Tips
========

* It's often tempting to play conservatively with Primal Kyogre, as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to exert early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It's important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team's Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock and trading with the immediate Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating Primal Groudon or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon that struggle versus a healthy Groudon or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should trade in Kyogre for getting off great damage on a threatening foe and, oftentimes, forced lines of play from the opponent.
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to Team Preview. If their Arceus forme is Water type, the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the switch-in to Kyogre, since it is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within Earthquake's KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of an OHKO versus most Primal Groudon variants, so any amount of chip damage helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Primal Kyogre can also check any lingering Necrozma-DM for Xerneas.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre's ability to pressure the metagame's premier Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn's Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into a Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rock on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two Pokemon immune to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants of Yveltal are ideal for this, as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. Life Orb Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn't at its strongest.
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar and Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing which coverage moves to use.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, are valuable teammates, as they exert greater pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre's great pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to set up late-game sweeps for these teammates.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind + Water Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Full-powered Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers from full HP. This fact is the key appeal to this Primal Kyogre set, as Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to set up Spikes, if not just outright run over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn but are interested in the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mind games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls like Blissey and Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than it. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this specially oriented Kyogre set. It also complements Kyogre's Water-type STAB moves really well in general; only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciates switching into a full-powered Water Spout anyway. Arceus-Water also cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre, so it gets overwhelmed by Calm Mind-boosted attacks.
* Thunder is an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set's overall effectiveness, though, and Thunder's targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, maximum Special Attack EVs with a Modest nature are strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so that it can use full-powered Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting, but the drop in power is very noticeable; most notably, Primal Kyogre loses the chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly safe middle-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in their Primal Groudon instead. It's worth noting that,(RC) if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect mind game if it doesn’t want to risk having poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to set up Spikes later in the game.
* You want to be as aggressive as possible as early as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards to where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes,(AC) and coming in safely on double switches is ideal.
* If you don't see targets like Ferrothorn and Blissey at Team Preview, you don't need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than physical versions. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO, but in many situations it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable Groudon switch-in, which helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, as any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout's power.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More defensive Groudon answers like Giratina-O allow Primal Kyogre to opt for Ice Beam chip damage without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock to preserve Water Spout's power and can spread paralysis so that Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, as there isn't a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess, (AC) (keep comma remove comment) but it is also one of the easist easiest Pokemon to chip down. A single Ice Beam's worth of chip damage means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas are great teammates for Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for defensive variants of Primal Kyogre. A Scald burn is the most Kyogre can threaten Ferrothorn with. The status spread in general is great for annoying foes, and the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor, but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus formes and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a timer by Toxic.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping away at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice, as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to outlast this set. It's also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stallbreaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move regardless so that Kyogre can serve as a check to Calm Mind Arceus formes that aren't defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald, though, as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn't reach any notable KO benchmarks in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Primal Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexes from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running maximum Speed with a Timid nature is a viable alternative, as defensive Kyogre doesn't have the recovery or bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster notably allows it check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a Speed tie in the worst-case scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Primal Kyogre set, this one is best played conservatively.
* You aren't looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with hard hits generally don't have long-term solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game with it will typically struggle with its powerful Scalds and ability to absorb blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or be used as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre's bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. If a foe 3HKOes it, this means it can only safely switch in once, and if it is 4HKOed, its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It's ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Primal Kyogre isn't using Toxic. Zygarde, defensive Lunala, and Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it's best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful Pokemon able to punish defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-DM, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resistance, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome, as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it, as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre's only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. Thus, you shouldn't rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and use Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre's lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazard makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support from the likes of defensive Lunala and Giratina-O can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STAB attack that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical Primal Kyogre's Primal Kyogre's (you had an extra space) Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral Arceus formes with full HP investment, which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus forme that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options, as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Pokemon that resist Water like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and lets Primal Kyogre easily wins win the one-on-one matchup thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water switch-ins as it switches in ("Arceus-Water switch-ins" means "Arceus-Water checks", so I reworded this to what I thought you meant) when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water one-on-one, which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating Confide Blissey and Chansey. Alternatively, Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams, and it pairs well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* The EV spread remains fairly simple when using only special attacks. Maximum Speed and Special Attack investment lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can, with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* An EV spread of 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe with a Mild nature is an option for sets using Liquidation. The given spread It allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-DM, and retain as much special firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages.
* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that this Primal Kyogre set doesn't have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as it can easily react to it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used versus slower teams, which will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sacrifice so that Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely specially oriented or a hesistant hesitant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to both of them is recommended, as this set has the weakest matchup against them amongst among the offensive variants of Primal Kyogre available.
* On the other hand, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to dedicate extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force the Arceus Arceus-Water to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use versus Primal Groudon, but its extremely narrow coverage makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam, (remove extra space) but the horrible accuracy is off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Primal Kyogre at least once. Its mere presence can force hesitation from Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it becomes even more difficult for the Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play versus Primal Groudon, especially if it is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn's large mixed bulk, Water-type resistance, lack of weaknesses to Primal Kyogre's coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes make it one of the most consistent and threatening checks to Kyogre. Even Calm Mind + Water Spout sets have to be careful to conserve their HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate countermeasures for Ferrothorn's Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks being simply OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the one-on-one matchup when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic followed by Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a defensive or Special Attack-invested Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of. (Maybe mention Thunder?)

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Primal Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch in on into and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre, and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of a being immune to Toxic immunity. Kyogre's Ice Beam can only help so much versus Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass's quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed make them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Primal Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantaged advantageous position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade, as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Answers**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot versus Primal Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Primal Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it, but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre's Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn't play well when you're using Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the one-on-one matchup assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check special attacker Kyogre variants, provided they don't use Liquidation, and weakened Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre, but they fare poorly versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[, ]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
GP 2/2
 

Lotus

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[OVERVIEW]

* Primal Kyogre is one of the best choices for breaking down teams thanks to its raw power, coverage, and ability to attack effectively both physically and specially.
* It remains effective despite being checked by the popular Primal Groudon. Additionally, the utility of an Overheat switch-in and mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon check is both rare and valuable for offensive teams.
* Kyogre can also utilize a defensive variant, making it a consideration for nearly every team.
* Kyogre is a good blanket check for most types of support and Calm Mind Arceus formes.
* However, Kyogre is naturally slow and has poor options for recovery. It is also forced to use Blue Orb, which denies it the option to address these issues. As a result, Kyogre is easy to weaken and pressure out of a game.
* Additionally, Kyogre's aforementioned lack of Speed means that one very rarely reaches a gamestate where it, alone, outright wins. This gives it diminishing returns while the game progresses, as the opponent can opt to sacrifice weakened and non-impactful Pokemon instead of trying to guess how Kyogre will attack.

[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Liquidation
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunder
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Liquidation is the obligatory STAB move of choice because it has the greatest Base Power and a sizable chance to drop the opposing Pokemon’s Defense, granting a luckier Primal Kyogre extra opportunities to break a troublesome wall. Waterfall deserves a mention, however, for the ability to make the opposing Pokemon flinch instead, at the price of a small loss in damage output. This is valuable for teams that are able to effectively spread paralysis. The added possibility of making a lead Smeargle or Cloyster flinch is useful if you have a teammate that can reliably use Defog on the imminent Primal Groudon for the cases where you don't get lucky.
* Earthquake is the biggest draw to using a physical variant of Kyogre, since it has a chance to 2HKO offensive Primal Groudon without any prior damage or entry hazards.
* Ice Beam complements Primal Kyogre's coverage by cleanly OHKOing Salamence and Rayquaza, 2HKOing uninvested Giratina-O after Stealth Rock, OHKOing defensive Zygarde, and 2HKOing defensive Zygarde-C.
* Thunder rounds out Kyogre's coverage by hitting the handful of Water-types in the metagame. This allows Kyogre to 2HKO opposing Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock and 2HKO Arceus-Water. The possibility to inflict paralysis is important in the Arceus-Water matchup, as it prevents the Pokemon from safely stalling with Recover if Kyogre manages to catch it with Thunder as it switches in. Thunder is also notable for breaking Lugia and defensive Yveltal, two Pokemon that would be troublesome otherwise.
* Substitute is an option to punish slower Toxic users and avoid having to guess which Pokemon attempts to switch into Kyogre’s coverage. It is also effective on the aforementioned paralysis teams and can be used to beat Arceus-Water that lack Judgment.

Set Details
========

* 252 Attack EVs are used to make sure Primal Kyogre hits as hard as possible.
* Speed is maximized due to Kyogre's dependence on moving first in a crowded Speed tier.
* An Adamant nature allows Kyogre to 2HKO most offensive variants of Primal Groudon with Earthquake. With Stealth Rock or prior damage, 2HKOing defensive variants becomes possible as well.
* Jolly is also viable, as oftentimes exchanges between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre come down to which of the two is faster. However, Kyogre begins to start missing 2HKOs on Groudon with marginal defensive investment without Stealth Rock in play.
* Giving Kyogre a bit of bulk is viable to allow it to trade with Pokemon that it can never hope to outrun. 32 HP 64 Defense EVs, for example, allow Kyogre to survive Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge after Stealth Rock while still affording Kyogre enough Speed to outrun unboosted Blaziken.
* It may seem strange to see a Special Attack-reducing nature being recommended for a set with multiple special coverage moves, but it does not prevent Kyogre from hitting the crucial KO benchmarks that it needs with these moves. Therefore, not reducing Kyogre's Speed or bulk is far more appreciated.

Usage Tips
========

* It's often tempting to play conservatively with Primal Kyogre, as it is commonly the most effective breaker in a given matchup. However, Kyogre shines the most when it gets to exert early-game pressure to force difficult decisions from the opponent, most notably with regards to what they should do with their Primal Groudon.
* It's important to keep in mind that, even if a Primal Groudon manages to switch in safely, it is often a team's Stealth Rock setter. Knowing this, going for the potential 2HKO with Earthquake can punish an opponent looking to set up Stealth Rock early, where it matters most, on an expected switch. The advantage with this line of play is that, even if the opponent expects it, they are forced to choose between setting up Stealth Rock and trading with the immediate Kyogre threat. Freely eliminating Primal Groudon or indirectly pressuring Stealth Rock from being set on your side of the field is helpful for teams with other Pokemon that struggle versus a healthy Groudon or dislike having enemy Stealth Rock in play.
* In general, it is important to know when you should trade in Kyogre for getting off great damage on a threatening foe and, oftentimes, forced lines of play from the opponent.
* For example, when facing a Sticky Web team, use Kyogre as an anti-lead against Smeargle to force the opponent to switch to Primal Groudon after Smeargle is KOed. Leave Kyogre in against opposing Primal Groudon as fodder to get off as much chip damage as possible to weaken its Eruption as much as possible. After Kyogre is KOed, switch into a Defogger like Mega Salamence or Giratina-O to get rid of the Sticky Web on your side of the field.
* Pay careful attention to Team Preview. If their Arceus forme is Water type, the way you will have to play with Kyogre can change. Oftentimes, Arceus-Water is used early as the switch-in to Kyogre, since it is much harder to chip away at than Primal Groudon.
* Just because Kyogre’s coverage is impressive doesn’t mean you should always attack with it when you get the chance. Double switching is very useful for capitalizing on Kyogre’s immediate pressure.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that benefit from having Primal Groudon weakened are great options. Necrozma-DM and Xerneas are two such Pokemon. Necrozma-DM can threaten a sweep much more easily once Primal Groudon is within Earthquake's KO range. Geomancy Xerneas often comes just barely short of an OHKO versus most Primal Groudon variants, so any amount of chip damage helps. Choice Scarf Xerneas variants become harder to switch into as well for offensive teams with a weakened Primal Groudon. Primal Kyogre can also check any lingering Necrozma-DM for Xerneas.
* Lunala and Ho-Oh both appreciate Kyogre's ability to pressure the metagame's premier Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon. Ho-Oh deserves special mention for its ability to pressure and punish Ferrothorn for Kyogre. Ho-Oh can even run Defog to make sure Ferrothorn's Spikes are never an issue.
* Mega Salamence and Giratina-O can both switch into Primal Groudon as well as Defog away any Stealth Rock on your side of the field.
* Having Yveltal on your team forces opposing Primal Groudon to guess between two Pokemon immune to its powerful STAB attacks. Life Orb or Choice Specs variants of Yveltal are ideal for this, as they are much more immediately threatening to a healthy Primal Groudon. Life Orb Yveltal also has access to Sucker Punch, which shines in matchups where Kyogre isn't at its strongest.
* Pokemon that want pressure on Arceus-Water, like Mega Salamence, Dragon Dance Zygarde-C, Ho-Oh, Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Groudon, pair well with Kyogre. Thunder paralysis is all it takes to open the gates for these offensive Pokemon to get past a popular wall.
* Pokemon that can handle an active Arceus-Water, like Mega Gengar and Ferrothorn, will give Kyogre more leeway when it comes to guessing which coverage moves to use.
* Barring a few exceptions, most Pokemon faster than Kyogre tend to not have very much bulk and will rely more on their ability to attack first. This makes Pokemon that are at the top of Ubers Speed curve, like Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and many Choice Scarf users, are valuable teammates, as they exert greater pressure in the matchups that Kyogre is weakest in. In return, Kyogre's great pressure versus Pokemon slower than itself helps to set up late-game sweeps for these teammates.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind + Water Spout
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Origin Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Full-powered Water Spout has roughly a 25% chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn after Leftovers from full HP. This fact is the key appeal to this Primal Kyogre set, as Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that plagues every other Kyogre variant. Being able to deny Ferrothorn the opportunity to set up Spikes, if not just outright run over it, is very valuable to teams that are unable to afford direct countermeasures to Ferrothorn but are interested in the advantages Kyogre brings to the team.
* Calm Mind complements Water Spout. You can play mind games with a Ferrothorn that is aiming to use Protect for the extra Leftovers recovery to avoid the Water Spout 2HKO. It also helps Kyogre break other walls like Blissey and Arceus-Water.
* Origin Pulse allows Kyogre to still functionally pressure teams even when its HP is low or trade with Pokemon that are faster than it. It also cleans up any Pokemon that decided to trade blows with Water Spout.
* Ice Beam is the best option for getting past Primal Groudon with this Kyogre set. It also complements Kyogre's Water-type STAB moves really well in general; only Arceus-Water and opposing Kyogre resist both. Neither of these Pokemon appreciates switching into a full-powered Water Spout anyway. Arceus-Water also cannot do much immediate damage back to Kyogre, so it gets overwhelmed by Calm Mind-boosted attacks.
* Thunder is an option over Calm Mind if you are especially worried about these Water-types. This hurt the set's overall effectiveness, though, and Thunder's targets are shaky checks in the first place.

Set Details
========

* Kyogre wants as much firepower as possible for this set in order to break Ferrothorn as reliably as possible. Thus, maximum Special Attack EVs with a Modest nature are strongly recommended.
* This set wants to avoid trading blows so it can use full-powered Water Spouts. Therefore, running maximum Speed EVs is required. A Timid nature becomes tempting, but the drop in power is very noticeable; most notably, Primal Kyogre loses the chance to 2HKO Ferrothorn without prior damage.

Usage Tips
========

* Using Water Spout as Ferrothorn switches in is the surest way to beat it. Calm Mind is a mostly safe middle-ground play if you are worried that the opponent might switch in their Primal Groudon instead. It's worth noting that if the Ferrothorn has Protect, Leech Seed, and Power Whip, Kyogre will need to win a Protect mind game if it doesn’t want to risk having poor damage rolls and fainting. Even in this worst-case scenario, however, Ferrothorn will be heavily weakened and likely never have an opportunity to set up Spikes later in the game.
* You want to be as aggressive as possible as early as you can. This variant just requires a bit more caution with regards to where it tries to apply its pressure and when it wants to switch in. Avoiding trades with faster foes, and coming in safely on double switches is ideal.
* If you don't see targets like Ferrothorn and Blissey at Team Preview, you don't need to worry as much about conserving Water Spout strength. Origin Pulse is a very powerful attack on its own.
* This set is bothered more by Primal Groudon than physical versions. Unboosted Ice Beam is often a 3HKO, but in many situations it is better to use a double switch to punish a predictable Groudon switch-in, which helps maintain immediate pressure as opposed to chipping for better pressure later. There is also less risk to Kyogre itself, as any potential damage is taken by the teammate instead. This may be important in matchups where you want to preserve Water Spout's power.

Team Options
========

* Pokemon that can effectively pressure a healthy Primal Groudon, like Arceus-Ground, are helpful in presenting a greater risk to the Groudon for attempting to switch directly into Kyogre.
* More defensive Groudon answers like Giratina-O allow Primal Kyogre to opt for Ice Beam chip damage without forfeiting too much damage to the lost momentum. Giratina-O also has the advantage of being able to Defog away Stealth Rock to preserve Water Spout's power and can spread paralysis so Kyogre can threaten more quick OHKOs with it.
* A healthy Arceus-Water with Toxic and Recover can be difficult to overcome. Having a teammate that can deal with this situation is advised.
* The main draw to this set is that it is mostly self-sufficient, as there isn't a viable Pokemon in the metagame that can completely shut it down without playing around Water Spout perfectly. Primal Groudon forces the Kyogre user to guess, but it is also one of the easiest Pokemon to chip down. A single Ice Beam's worth of chip damage means that Groudon can no longer safely switch in unless it is faster.
* While they may not help directly with specific problems Kyogre faces, very fast Pokemon like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Xerneas are great teammates for Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Scald is the STAB move of choice for defensive variants of Primal Kyogre. A Scald burn is the most Kyogre can threaten Ferrothorn with. The status spread in general is great for annoying foes, and the Attack stat drop associated with it complements Kyogre’s large Special Defense.
* Rest with Sleep Talk is the only form of recovery that Kyogre has access to. The inflexibility may be a limiting factor, but the ability to sponge status can be a crucial perk. Most notably, Kyogre can switch safely into assorted support Arceus formes and play a long game with them as opposed to being put on a timer by Toxic.
* The last slot is dedicated to chipping away at Primal Groudon. Ice Beam is the generally safest choice, as it also prevents Facade Mega Salamence from switching in freely. Toxic, however, is more threatening in general and makes it much harder to outlast this set. It's also the best option for dealing with support Arceus-Water without PP stalling.
* Calm Mind can occasionally work on teams dedicated to its success. It makes this variant of Kyogre a pretty effective stallbreaker. In most matchups, however, Kyogre will prefer having another move. Some teams may opt for the move regardless so Kyogre can serve as a check to Calm Mind Arceus formes that aren't defeated by Toxic.
* Origin Pulse can be considered for the STAB attack. Even without investment, Kyogre’s damage with it is impressive. It remains generally inferior to Scald, though, as it lacks the ability to threaten burns and doesn't reach any notable KO benchmarks in exchange.

Set Details
========

* The given EV spread allows Primal Kyogre to survive two uninvested Precipice Blades from Primal Groudon, a +2 Searing Sunraze Smash from Necrozma-DM, a +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence, two boosted Hexes from Mega Gengar, two Moonblasts from unboosted Xerneas after Stealth Rock, and two Life Orb-boosted Dark Pulses from Yveltal after Stealth Rock.
* Running maximum Speed with a Timid nature is a viable alternative, as defensive Kyogre doesn't have the recovery or bulk to hard wall most offensive Pokemon. Being faster notably allows it check any slower Swords Dance Groudon, only risking a Speed tie in the worst-case scenario.

Usage Tips
========

* Contrary to every other Primal Kyogre set, this one is best played conservatively.
* You aren't looking to apply immediate pressure on key Pokemon as much as just be an annoying status sponge that is difficult to force out. The sort of teams that can threaten this Kyogre with hard hits generally don't have long-term solutions to the status effects it threatens. Meanwhile, the teams that can afford to play a long game with it will typically struggle with its powerful Scalds and ability to absorb blows.
* Support Arceus formes, and anything else that mostly relies on status to deal damage, are the prime targets to switch into.
* Against teams that lack these sort of Pokemon, Kyogre is best used for threatening trades. It can also help check some weaker special attackers, like Gengar on the turn it is Mega Evolving, or be used as a roadblock to certain setup sweepers, like mixed Rock Polish Groudon.
* Even though Kyogre's bulk is impressive, the lack of consistent recovery undermines what it can switch into. If a foe 3HKOes it, this means it can only safely switch in once, and if it is 4HKOed, its ability to check the threat is entirely luck dependent while it is sleeping from Rest.
* Kyogre is at its most vulnerable and most exploitable when it is sleeping from Rest. It's ideal to use the move as late as possible.

Team Options
========

* This set is extremely punishable by Primal Groudon, especially if Primal Kyogre isn't using Toxic. Zygarde, defensive Lunala, and Giratina-O are all good examples of reliable Groudon switch-ins. Keep in mind that Primal Groudon has multiple viable sets and that it's best to not rely on a single Pokemon to account for it.
* Facade Mega Salamence is another powerful Pokemon able to punish defensive Kyogre if you opt for Toxic instead of Ice Beam. Steel-types, like Skarmory and Necrozma-DM, are ideal checks due to their sizable bulk, Flying-type resistance, and reliable recovery.
* Ferrothorn is especially troublesome, as it can very easily threaten multiple layers of Spikes. Mega Sableye and Defog Ho-Oh are the best answers to it, as they can consistently deal with any Spikes Ferrothorn attempt to set up.
* Cleric support is appreciated but not strictly required. It helps mitigate the downsides of Rest as Kyogre's only means of recovery. Blissey, Xerneas, and Magearna are the most common options for this role. Keep in mind, however, that you will rarely be given convenient opportunities to heal your sleeping Kyogre. Thus, you shouldn't rely on the possibility of Heal Bell support and use Rest aggressively without very careful thought.
* Kyogre's lack of Leftovers means that any sort of entry hazard makes things difficult for it to switch in frequently and makes it very vulnerable to double switches. Reliable Defog support from the likes of defensive Lunala and Giratina-O can help a lot. These two Pokemon are especially notable for their ability to handle the most common Stealth Rock setter, Primal Groudon.

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Origin Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder / Substitute
move 4: Liquidation / Calm Mind
item: Blue Orb
ability: Drizzle
nature: Mild / Hasty
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Origin Pulse is the consistent and strong STAB attack that this sort of set wants. The heavy Special Attack investment means that it outdamages physical Primal Kyogre's Liquidation in terms of raw power. Most notably, it deals over 70% to neutral Arceus formes with full HP investment, which allows it to 2HKO a support Arceus forme that uses Toxic followed by Recover with Stealth Rock in play.
* Ice Beam is the most important of the available coverage options, as it deals with Primal Groudon and other Pokemon that resist Water like Mega Salamence.
* Thunder deals with Arceus-Water and lets Primal Kyogre easily win the one-on-one matchup thanks to the heavy Special Attack investment. Substitute is another option for easing predictions while still retaining the ability to beat Arceus-Water as it switches in when used with Calm Mind. However, Kyogre loses the ability to cleanly beat Arceus-Water one-on-one, which is a unique advantage to this variant.
* Liquidation is for defeating Confide Blissey and Chansey. Alternatively, Calm Mind is useful for dealing extra damage to slower, more defensive teams, and it pairs well with Substitute.

Set Details
========

* Maximum Speed and Special Attack investment lets Kyogre hit as hard and as often as it can, with the choice of nature boiling down to player preference.
* A Modest or Timid nature is preferred when using Calm Mind over Liquidation.
* An EV spread of 112 Atk / 244 SpA / 152 Spe with a Mild nature is an option for sets using Liquidation. It allows Kyogre to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock, outspeed Adamant Necrozma-DM, and retain as much special firepower as possible.

Usage Tips
========

* As a whole, general strategies do not differ much from other offensive Kyogre variants. This set has the same simplicity of the physical variant but comes with a few situational perks and disadvantages.
* One unique advantage worth mentioning is that this Primal Kyogre set doesn't have to predict around Arceus-Water, unless Toxic is a significant concern, as it can easily react to it with Thunder.
* Calm Mind is best used versus slower teams, which will then often be forced to trade at least one Pokemon for the ability to chip Kyogre with status. It can also be used on a predicated sacrifice so Kyogre can trade more favorably with the next Pokemon.
* If using Liquidation, Kyogre can function as a lure for Blissey and Chansey. Using Origin Pulse early on can mislead the opponent into assuming Kyogre is purely specially oriented or a hesitant Water Spout variant.

Team Options
========

* As always, Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn remain prominent threats. Having strong answers to both of them is recommended, as this set has the weakest matchup against them among the offensive variants of Primal Kyogre available.
* On the other hand, offensive teams with this Kyogre variant do not need to dedicate extra attention to Arceus-Water. In a pinch, you can even switch to Kyogre to force Arceus-Water to switch out itself.
* Pokemon that struggle versus Blissey and Chansey, like Choice Specs Yveltal and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground, become stronger considerations for your team when using Liquidation on Kyogre as a lure.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

* Hidden Power Ground is the strongest special move that Kyogre can use versus Primal Groudon, but its extremely narrow coverage makes it mostly inferior to just using Ice Beam.
* Brick Break is another extremely specialized coverage move that can hit Ferrothorn for super effective damage. However, even sets with heavy Attack investment will still fail to 2HKO after Stealth Rock the majority of the time. The recoil damage from Iron Barbs, the opportunity cost, and the inefficiency in its given niche mean that using Brick Break is a novelty at best.
* A defensive variant with Liquidation, Earthquake, Rest, and Sleep Talk can be used to have a stronger Primal Groudon matchup. The drawbacks, however, include a much weaker Ferrothorn matchup and the reliance on PP stalling when dealing with Arceus-Water.
* Blizzard is a stronger Ice Beam, but the horrible accuracy is off-putting, especially for a move that requires consecutive hits.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Primal Groudon**: Primal Groudon is found on nearly every competitive team and can safely switch into Primal Kyogre at least once. Its mere presence can force hesitation from Primal Kyogre when it comes to using its STAB move of choice. If the Primal Groudon is faster than Kyogre, it becomes even more difficult for Kyogre to apply meaningful pressure. However, Kyogre has the advantage when it has its own weather in play versus Primal Groudon, especially if it is faster. For this reason, many teams will include a secondary Kyogre check to account for this situation and to force the Kyogre user to be more cautious with its move choices.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn's large mixed bulk, Water-type resistance, lack of weaknesses to Primal Kyogre's coverage options, STAB Power Whip, and access to Spikes make it one of the most consistent and threatening checks to Kyogre. Even Calm Mind + Water Spout sets have to be careful to conserve their HP for as long as Ferrothorn itself is healthy. Other variants must simply avoid being in play as often as possible unless its team has adequate countermeasures for Ferrothorn's Spikes. Power Whip means that an ambitious Kyogre always risks being simply OHKOed after a small amount of prior damage.

**Arceus-Water**: Although Arceus-Water runs risks with switching into Kyogre, it often wins the one-on-one matchup when it does manage to come in safely via Toxic followed by Recover stall. However, the Arceus-Water user must be careful to avoid tackling a defensive or Special Attack-invested Kyogre. Even in these matchups, though, Arceus-Water still provides valuable pivoting utility for a Primal Groudon teammate to take advantage of.

**Grass-types**: Arceus-Grass and Mega Venusaur are far more niche than the Pokemon mentioned above, but their effectiveness in dealing with Primal Kyogre is what solidifies their viability in the Ubers metagame. Their Water-type resistance and STAB Grass-type attacks make to easy for them to switch into and threaten Kyogre. Their access to reliable recovery allows them to play a longer game with Kyogre, and Mega Venusaur even has the advantage of being immune to Toxic. Kyogre's Ice Beam can only help so much versus Mega Venusaur's Thick Fat ability and Arceus-Grass's quick recovery.

**Dragon-types**: Mega Salamence, Rayquaza, and Arceus-Dragon are all acceptable checks to Kyogre when used in conjunction with Primal Groudon. Each of them struggles with Ice Beam due to their double weakness or inability to threaten a quick KO. However, their Water-type resistance and greater Speed make them effective short-term threats.

**Faster Pokemon**: In general, the best way to deal with Primal Kyogre is proactively instead of reactively. Faster Pokemon with strong offensive pressure can make it difficult for Kyogre to find an advantageous position from which to apply its pressure. Generally, it is forced to threaten a single trade after careful maneuvers to get in safely. It may not even be able to get this trade, as there is often the threat of Primal Groudon simply switching in.

**Water-type Answers**: Any Pokemon with a Water-type resistance can serve as a one-time pivot versus Primal Kyogre. Giratina-O, Zekrom, Toxapex, and Mega Slowbro are all Pokemon that could provide this utility if needed. Keep in mind that they aren’t actual Kyogre checks, just tools to help you pivot into a difficult switch-in when the need arises.

**Palkia**: Palkia is a niche Pokemon that can function as a Primal Kyogre check. Switching into Kyogre is fairly easy for it, but it can have difficulties actually threatening Calm Mind Kyogre variants with a clean KO. Kyogre's Earthquake also deals 40% damage minimum to Palkia, which doesn't play well when you're using Primal Groudon as your other Kyogre check.

**Defensive Pokemon**: Certain defensive Pokemon can win the one-on-one matchup assuming they are healthy due to their incredible natural bulk. Lunala, Lugia, and support Arceus formes can all threaten to Toxic Kyogre and then simply Recover stall. However, this strategy only works for certain Kyogre sets. Chansey and Blissey can check special attacker Kyogre variants, provided they don't use Liquidation, and weakened Calm Mind + Water Spout Kyogre, but they fare poorly versus any other sort of Kyogre.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Melee Mewtwo, 75110]]
- Earlier versions by: [[Stoward, 420389]]
- Quality checked by: [[Lotus, 434601], [Nayrz, 212134], [Minority, 222996]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [Fireflame476, 231476]]
 

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