Landorus-I (QC rejected 3/3)

[n00b]

Flying genie thing comin thru

Overview
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-At first glance, mediocre offenses, but actually hits very hard because of sheer force/sand force
-Sheer force + life orb gives it lots of damage on certain moves, while sheer force negates LO recoil
-101 base speed means it outspeeds a huge number of threats in the tier, like xgod/ygod, gene, kia, mega kanga, and all those base 90s
-Excellent movepool that provides good coverage and good boosting capabilities (calm mind, rock polish, swords dance)
-Decent typing, immunity to spikes/tspikes, as well as ground moves, hit neutrally by SR - however, 4x weakness to ice and 2x weakness to water can be problematic
-OK defenses, but can't take very many hits


Mixed Attacker
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name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Focus Blast/Sludge Wave
move 3: Psychic/U-turn/Grass Knot
move 4: Rock Slide/Hidden Power Ice/Gravity
ability: Sheer Force
item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Naive/Timid/Modest

Moves
========
-Earth power is your main attacking move - boosted by STAB, LO and sheer force, while sheer force negates LO recoil
-Sludge Wave hits fairy types extremely hard (fairyceus, xern, sylveon)
-Rock slide hits Ho-oh and other flying types, while HP ice hits dragons, flying types and other ground types
-Grass knot hits Groudon and Kyogre
-Focus blast hits steel pokemon with air balloons, as well as taking out threats like bulky ekiller
-Psychic allows it to hit mega gengar without having to predict the mega evolution
-U-turn for momentum
-Gravity allows flying types to be hit by a strong EP, but beware - it affects yourself, too

Set Details
========
-Naive if running rock slide, timid/modest for HP ice or gravity
-Rock slide hits most flying types (OHKO against 252 HP/0 Def ho-oh even with timid/modest and no investment), HP ice provides coverage against the abundant dragons (although many have a secondary resist to ice), and gravity allows you to hit everything with earth power
-U-turn if you have other ways of dealing with mega-gengar

Usage Tips
========
-Can do serious damage throughout the game
-Can clean late game
-Forces switches, and can use u-turn to take advantage of this

Team Options
========
-Can be used to clear out things that would otherwise wall Xerneas (Aegislash, Ho-oh, etc.)
-Yveltal can take out things that would otherwise wall it (Lugia, Giratina)
-A good switch-in into threats like Kyogre and Palkia is important, as it is easily OHKO'd by super effective water and ice moves



Calm Mind
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name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Focus Blast/Sludge Wave
move 4: Hidden Power Ice/Gravity
Ability: Sheer Force
item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Timid/Modest

Moves
========
-CM to set up, boosting its damage
-Earth power to hit everything (that isn't flying and doesn't resist) very hard
-Focus blast and HP ice for coverage
-Rock polish can be used over CM to outspeed scarfers, in which case you can run 52 speed/modest with the rest in HP (outspeeds up to scarf garchomp), extra speed possible for scarf skymin

Set Details
========
-Timid if you have trouble with positive base 90+ pokemon, modest for the extra damage
-Max speed and spatk for maximum offensive ability

Usage Tips
========
-Good as a late game sweeper when walls have been either taken out or worn down into KO range
-Still usable in early game to deal good amounts of damage

Team Options
========
-Can be used to break walls for pokemon like Xerneas to sweep
-Requires a safe switch in for scarfed water types (ogre/kia)



Physically Biased Scarf
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name: Physically Biased Scarf
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: U-turn
Ability: Sand Force
item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive

Moves
========
-EQ hits fairly hard off of 125 base atk, boosted by SF
-Stone edge/rock slide complete the edgequake combo, boosted by SF
-HP ice for coverage
-U-turn for momentum

Set Details
========
-Sand Force boosts earthquake and stone edge's power
-You can drop the scarf for something LO or earth plate if you feel uncomfortable being choice locked

Usage Tips
========
-With scarf, Lando-I can outspeed almost all common sets in the tier, but is unfortunately quite a bit weaker
-Can revenge some weakened scarfers (ogre/kia) and outright kill other healthy scarfers (krom/dialga)
-Can also clean late-game

Team Options
========
-A sand streamer (hippo/ttar) is important, providing a boost to EQ and SE
-Clerics are useful for healing up burn, especially in this status heavy meta, which could otherwise cripple it
-Can be used in a voltturn core



Specially Biased Scarf
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name: Specially Biased Scarf
move 1: Earth power
move 2: Grass knot
move 3: Rock slide/Hidden power ice
move 4: U-turn
Ability: Sheer Force
item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Rash/Timid/Modest

Moves
========
-Earth power if enemy flying/levitating pokemon are down
-Grass knot allows it to outspeed and revenge weakened Kyogre, as well as hitting Groudon very hard
-Rock slide hits Ho-oh and other flying types, while HP ice hits dragons, flying types and ground types
-U-turn gives momentum

Set Details
========
-Rock slide if you have troubles with ho-oh, HP ice if you have trouble with dragons/other ground or flying types

Usage Tips
========
-With scarf, Lando-I can outspeed almost all common sets in the tier, but is unfortunately quite a bit weaker
-Can revenge some weakened scarfers (ogre/kia) and outright kill other healthy scarfers (krom/dialga)
-Can also clean late-game

Team Options
========
-Can be used in a voltturn core



Other Options
########
-A specs set is possible, but LO provides similar damage, without being choice locked
-Band is also possible with a physical set, but is generally inferior to lando-T, which has better attack
-Can run swords dance or double dance, but lando-t generally does it better - with physical sand force sets, you often can't afford to use up precious sandstorm turns boosting
-SR is a possibility, but lando-t again does it better

Checks & Counters
########
-Walls like lugia and giratina that can tank repeated hits and recover the damage
-Scarf kyogre and scarf kia outspeed non scarf sets and OHKO
-Faster offensive mons (e.g. Mewtwo, Darkrai) can outspeed and do serious damage

 

[SuperWumbology]

I would like to add some opinions on the analysis to get the ball rolling:

"No reliable recovery". This would be a problem for stuff like Landorus-T, Groudon and Dialga, but Landorus-I does not need reliable recovery as its main priority is dealing hits, not taking them. Even still, Sheer Force negates LO recoil, so it doesn't compromise Lando's longevity at all unless it's running Sand Force.

No mention of Sludge Wave? At all? Good sir, please mention Sludge Wave somewhere in Sheer Force sets, at worst OO. The ability to check most variants of Fairy-types and Arceus-Grass (if you don't have HP Ice) without a second thought is an extremely good selling point. Let me demonstrate:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 328-387 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xerneas: 234-278 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 276-325 (62.1 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Arceus-Grass: 244-289 (54.9 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 192-229 (48.7 - 58.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Sludge Wave is good. 'Nuff said.

Edit: lol I didn't realize it was you n00b my bad. Next time add an extra 0 (unless you want to remain anonymous against me :( )

 

[malefic]

Hi n00b, I might not be QC but I am seriously doubting the viability of this mon in ubers, or at least how many of these sets are actually usable. I could go more in depth into this, but basically:

• Ground typing is more a bane than boon on landy because it is unable to take krom's dragon moves at all, and also imposes a teambuilding constraint in that you cannot run another ground type (which would probably be a better fit on most teams)
• As a specially based attacker, it's trapped in a difficult position, having none of mewtwo's speed, palkia's niche in checking ubers mainstays, or a great typing like xerneas. What it does have is an above average speed tier (but is still crushed by almost any arceus, Mewtwo, Darkrai) and a great ability but not the moves to make use of it (either weak or have awkward typing), meaning its attacks simply don't hit hard enough (it doesn't KO the stuff it outspeeds). Also it doesn't have a niche in hard-checking any significant mon in ubers
• Special scarfed sets are pitifully weak. Lando-t would probably make a better scarfer either way, possessing similar typing, and u-turn, while having intimidate and being a better switch into stuff like krom. Not to mention scarfed Lando-t is pretty bad already...

The only niche I see on this is as a sand force attacker on teams with sand support, or maybe CM with sticky web support

 

[MMII]

I'm not really sure why i'd use this mon now that sand isn't perma. Where does he force switches and what does he do on them? (iirc he can't even 2HKO bulky arceus)


But that might be me being extremely biased in favor of Lando-T.

 

[n00b]

No mention of Sludge Wave? At all? Good sir, please mention Sludge Wave somewhere in Sheer Force sets, at worst OO. The ability to check most variants of Fairy-types and Arceus-Grass (if you don't have HP Ice) without a second thought is an extremely good selling point.

I figured that a neutral earth power would hit sufficiently hard (a lot of them end up being 2HKOs anyways) but I've added it in, as it does provide a few useful 2HKOs.

Hi n00b, I might not be QC but I am seriously doubting the viability of this mon in ubers, or at least how many of these sets are actually usable.

I'm not really sure why i'd use this mon now that sand isn't perma. Where does he force switches and what does he do on them? (iirc he can't even 2HKO bulky arceus)

But that might be me being extremely biased in favor of Lando-T.

I agree that this Pokemon is in a really tough spot this gen, being largely outclassed by other special attackers, but I do think that it does have a niche in that it has a good speed tier, and still has a good deal of offensive power.

In regard to the forcing switches, I find that it can easily force out a large number of Pokemon that it threatens to OHKO (e.g. Ho-oh with the rock slide, Dialga with the earth power). Another thing is that it does actually have an 80% chance to OHKO bulky ekiller (252hp/0sdef) with modest LO focus blast, after SR damage. Obviously with other types that aren't to weak to fighting/ground it might be more difficult to deal with, but it can still threaten weakened arcs, especially if you're running a CM set and have a boost or two up.

In the end, I do agree that it's nowhere near as useful as Lando-T, but I do think that it still has some use.

 

[MMII]

Sorry, I meant any type Arceus forme like Fairy, for example, with 252 HP.

 

[n00b]

Sorry, I meant any type Arceus forme like Fairy, for example, with 252 HP.

Any arc formes that don't resist earth power are 2HKO'd after SR damage, again assuming modest LO.

 

[orch]

Sorry, I meant any type Arceus forme like Fairy, for example, with 252 HP.

Calm mind as it switches in.
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Arceus: 255-302 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I have to question the efficiency of sludge wave when grass knot provides invaluable punishment vs waterceus/ogre, and ohkoing both of them with gk at +1. EP already does shitload vs targets of sludge wave.

I really wish that I saved the replays of using Land-I and crushing Blue J twice with it.

Honestly, this is the only viable set:

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind
- Gravity
- Grass Knot

 

[MMII]

ewwwwwwww it only hits that hard after a CM? If it were faster or bulkier, okay, but that's really disappointing. (although the spdef evs sorta mask it, i'm used to just 252 hp, does it 2HKO unboosted that?)

 

[orch]

ewwwwwwww it only hits that hard after a CM? If it were faster or bulkier, okay, but that's really disappointing. (although the spdef evs sorta mask it, i'm used to just 252 hp, does it 2HKO unboosted that?)

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 196-231 (44.1 - 52%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO

:| At least it's guaranteed after SR.

 

[MMII]

decent enough, i'll have to fiddle with this although RP looks like it's strongest niche tbh

 

[Blue Jay]

Sorry it took a while but yeah this is getting rejected. The typing overlaps with Lando-T and while this has niche advantages with its Speed and the bulk boost from CM, but this is not enough to give it a real niche that's large enough to really justify using it for more than fun and variation. It's too weak to really use having a cool Speed tier and too frail to check much anything.

QC rejected: 2/3 (Melee Mewtwo and me)

Discussion with MM2

02:10BlueJayDo we accept Lando-I?
02:10Melee_Teleportwoidk
02:10Melee_Teleportwodoes it work?
02:12BlueJayI'm not sure
02:13BlueJayOrch had success against me with some 96 speed Arceus
02:13BlueJayI'm not so sure it's actually legit though
02:14BlueJayI think it's very borderline
02:15BlueJayAnd with that in mind I lean towards rejection because it overlaps with Lando-T so badly without a clear reason to favour it
02:18BlueJayI mean CM is situationally cooler than something Lando-T can do but not consistently cooler in any way
02:18BlueJayThe speed tier is nice but the power isn't enough to really abuse that
02:18Melee_Teleportwoumm
02:18Melee_Teleportwowait actually
02:18Melee_Teleportwoi was about to say rp and shit but
02:18Melee_Teleportwolando t
02:18Melee_Teleportwodoes that
02:18Melee_Teleportwoand does it better
02:18Melee_Teleportwodoes lando i
02:18Melee_Teleportwoactually hit that much harder?
02:18Melee_Teleportwowithout like sand or something?
02:18Melee_Teleportwofuck cleaning with special shit
02:18Melee_Teleportwoyeah no fuck this mon
02:19Melee_Teleportwoits a worse lando t
02:19BlueJayLando-T can do SD, RP, check stuff
02:19BlueJayI mean
02:19Melee_Teleportwoall lando i has
02:19Melee_Teleportwois sheer force
02:19Melee_Teleportwosand niche
02:19Melee_Teleportwois gone
02:19BlueJaythe SDef boost of CM gives it niche advantages
02:19BlueJayBut they're not good enough for an analysis
02:19Melee_Teleportwonoits way too fucking fragile
02:20BlueJayWell it works for most neutral hits
02:20BlueJayAnd you have the speed to boost before stuff
02:20BlueJayBut meh
02:20BlueJayIf it could heal MAYBE
02:20Melee_Teleportwoyeah reject
02:20Melee_Teleportwocopy paste this log

 

[Fireburn]

QC Rejected 3/3

What Blue Jay said.

 

[n00b]

Alright thanks guys :]

 

[Li Xiao Long]

Shitty analysis. Lando - I is simply not usable. And the fact that your options and EVs don't help that much. The fact that you don't mention priority and Gira O also makes me cry.

 

[user php]

Gratz on the reject!