Have a nice day
With Dig and Fly we dont really need a patch. You just add a clause that says that while invulnerable you are only allowed to select Dig or Fly. We just have never bothered because the moves arent good enough in OU.
I understand, but if we remove the invulnerability part that made Dig/Fly banned, doesn't that mean that we're also obligated to fix moves like Focus Energy and secondary status effect moves?With Dig and Fly we dont really need a patch. You just add a clause that says that while invulnerable you are only allowed to select Dig or Fly. We just have never bothered because the moves arent good enough in OU.
So that's the argument. If we play by cart rules then Dig, Fly, Psywave, Counter, etc have to be banned.We're not obligated to do anything other than what we feel is convenient or appropriate, within the context of selecting for a playable competitive metagame
Most of the changes I’m suggesting would actually make the game better, but people are against them simply because it’s not what they’re used to. Removing freeze clause is debatable, but allowing tradebacks is literally giving Pokémon more moves and giving players more viable options. How could that possibly not make the game better to play?Ive played a freeze clause less metagame a lot, and honestly, you basically dont do anything different.
Think about how rarely you ever think "I need to keep my frozen pokemon alive in order to block a second freeze from my opponent". It does happen every now and then, but on the whole its pretty rare... You might think "I will save this frozen pokemon in order to protect me from a dangerous switch later", but that has nothing to do with freeze clause. Mostly freeze clause just protects you from those ridiculous games where Jynx freezes you twice before you've even had a chance to attack it.
Here's a hint for RBY in future: lines where you seek out a freeze in RBY are not actually that great. A paralysed pokemon has to try to ice beam 9 times to have a better than 50% chance of getting a freeze. What damage can your opponent do to your team while you ice beam for 9 turns? Cause if they are sitting there with their own Chansey trying to ice beam you back they are either not very good, or you were already in an absolutely dominant position. And once you've gotten your freeze you are almost always way better off trying to exploit your numerical advantage in some more proactive way than just trying to keep ice beaming things. And remember that even if you do manage to find 9 turns to ice beam against un statused opponents, freezing something isnt an insta-win. It's just not that great.
Sounds arbitrary to me. I could make up some malarkey about how moves learnt in GSC are part of GSC not RBY and make it sound great. But the real reason is that whenever there is a status quo, no matter how arbitrary it may be, it will win out until you convince people that theyd be better off changing. That isnt fear of change, that is just how every decision you are ever going to face in your entire life is going to work.
You can throw scare quotes around all you like, but what Smogon plays is RBY OU. We can change the rules, you just need to engage in terms the people who play RBY OU are actually going to recognise.
In no way do more options inherently make a meta better- imagine lovely kiss lax if you need an example of tradebacks potentially being detrimental (or at least hurting diversity).Most of the changes I’m suggesting would actually make the game better, but people are against them simply because it’s not what they’re used to. Removing freeze clause is debatable, but allowing tradebacks is literally giving Pokémon more moves and giving players more viable options. How could that possibly not make the game better to play?
Fixing focus energy would be literally fixing a glitch that got fixed later. It would make Pokémon like machamp better, and some might argue that reflect may be less ubiquitous with focus energy jolteon everywhere.
You’ve just said yourself that freeze clause makes little difference, yet people were happy to change game mechanics for it. Yet these changes clearly make the game better by giving Pokémon more viable moves but people don’t want them? I can’t think of a single explanation other than the fact to these people, sticking to what they’re used to is more important than making the meta better.
Tracebacks + All sleep moves banned. It removes the clause to a better ban, viable in console and more "diverse" metagame.
Stadium is an objectively more competitive meta. There’s a bit less RNG because crit rates got standardised and substitute is everywhere.Focus energy and hyper beam glitches are fixed which makes less games determined by a hyper beam vs body slam 50/50s.Tracebacks + All sleep moves banned. It removes the clause to a better ban, viable in console and more "diverse" metagame.
Anyway, I honestly feel like if you want to do this really close to console, I believe that doing Stadium No team Preview should be the way to go, just for the fact we would have the clauses available(although iirc you cannot randomly select them in Stadium 1, that's just a feature of 2?, someone correct me on this), and you can "circle around" team preview by making both players not look at each others part of the screen.
I don’t see LK lax being that centralising. Sleep functions differently in RBY compared to GSC. In GSC getting sleep early is not that important, and the reason why LK is good on lax is because he can sleep a counter then belly drum and sweep a team. In RBY you have normally slept something before lax comes out, and if you run LK you’re missing out on an attack or reflect/rest which is quite costly. Sleep doesn’t automatically make good Pokémon great. Sing was always a fringe option on chansey for years.
It’d be interesting to see how a trade backs meta would develop. People always say that the “community” didn’t want tradebacks but in reality most of the players who played back then don’t play anymore.I always thought the boogeyman with tradebacks was Amnesia Hypno.
You cited literally the only example of bad tradeback that everyone agreed upon banning, good job. But nevertheless, I agree that more options do not imply better meta, unless we are dealing with RBY that has so few options that a bit of variety can only make things better.
There are a few more Pokemon that can learn Amnesia through tradebacks aside from Hypno.I always thought the boogeyman with tradebacks was Amnesia Hypno.
Pretty sure it is, as this has been known for some timeIs wrap programmed to work on Ghost types?
I was watching this Let's play video, and the NPCs Ekans was able to wraplock Gastly. Granted it did no damage, but it's interesting it is able to do it.
Edit: Since I don't know if it plays at the second selected, the example is at the 3:42 mark.
Edit2: Also Bind by Tangela at 8:18
Checking the source or try it by yourself. Also, yes, this is implemented. https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/blob/master/data/mods/gen1/scripts.js#L728Is there a way of verifying what is already programmed in, in showdown?