Serious LGBTQ+

The only real explanation I can really come up with is that people are afraid of change and things outside of what is considered the "norm". But, change is another fundamental aspect of human society and growth, so I suppose it comes full circle. I guess I just wish people were more accepting of LGBT folk, because at the end of the day, we just want to be secure with who we are and what we want to be. Threatening people's lives and trying to tear people apart just because you don't want to understand them is not only ridiculous, but hypocritical at its core.
I feel like that's part of it, certainly - like, there are people who are all right with the concept of people having gender identities and sexualities which do not match how they perceive the world, but have much more of an issue with people who fall into either/both of these camps when they're in the presence of it. For example, there might sometimes be sincerity in the line, "you can be and do whatever you want in the bedroom". But I think that beyond this, there are two important factors: that queerness can be seen by those who have questioned their gender and/or sexuality as totally steering into those identities which they see as perhaps alien to them and therefore try to rebuke within themselves; and because of the association of sexuality and gender identity with gender norms can cause some people to see queerness as some sort of threat. They're wrong for doing so, and it's clear evidence of toxic culture, but I think that's where it comes from. Like, a guy shouldn't be TERRIFIED that someone will try to sleep with them just because that other person is gay; a big part of it, I think, is indeed this lack of understanding of what's different (being gay=/=liking EVERY guy under the Sun, for starters)...but more importantly, it's a confrontation of their own sexuality and their perceived sense of like...masculinity. It's really annoying. It doesn't help that guys tend to think that guys who are interested in other guys will behave the same way toward them as guys who who are interested in chicks. Perhaps there's some truth to it, but for me personally, as an example, if I give you a compliment, I am NOOOT flirting; I just want to say something that I genuinely believe to be praiseworthy. Frankly, it feels offensive to be treated like everything I do and say is an attempt to sleep with another guy. Generally, if you're that worried about something, it's reflective of some sort of issue going on in your own head (not necessarily that you're gay, to be clear; just that it's not about the person in front of you so much as something bothering you internally).



If you live in the US, notice how when gay marriage was legalized, there was a complete shift over to oppressing trans people? It’s because they knew they were facing a losing battle and now the same arguments made against gay people a decade ago were copy pasted for trans people. It’s all been a cycle from the Civil Rights movement, to gay rights, and now trans rights. And they’re still under the impression that if [insert minority group here] gain more rights it will then move to supporting pedophiles or beastiality which as mentioned before, are inherently harmful to both parties of such affairs.
That was totes a thing yes, and we're still seeing the effects of it today. I'm hearing far less of the slippery slope argumentation and there is LESS of the "My GeNdEr Is AtTaCk HeLiCoPtEr, LOLOLOL", which is good. (Probably helps that social media platforms seem to have less overlap between leftist and rightist camps nowadays, I'm sure.) But there's been overall less judgement and opposition to homosexuality which also means less organised opposition, whilst bi erasure is still very real and there's been real pushback against trans people, like that whole gender & sports debate. The Overton Window is shifting, but I don't know the extent to which that'll lead to positive change. It's been pretty slow in The Netherlands (though public spaces now GENERALLY use things like, "dear passengers" instead of "ladies and gentlemen"), but I'm optimistic - at least there's some good stuff baked into Dutch healthcare for people who are. In the US, it's a shame that it seems a lot needs to be done politically, not just socially; the former is worrisome, especially if the Supreme Court would get involved.
 

Crux

i want it...
The existence of homophobia and transphobia have very little to do with individuals, their feelings towards LGBT people, or movements. Instead, they are better conceived of as a system of structures and institutions that prohibit deviation from a set of norms. It is also worth noting that they are not really able to be considered on their own, as they are not separate from other structures like race, class, and gender in particular.

When people act homophobically, it is not because they seek to deny self-expression on the part of LGBT people, nor do they particularly care about it. The same is true of men who allegedly feel “threatened” by LGBT people flirting with them. Nor is it conservative movements with “slippery slope” arguments that prevent progress (it is worth noting that progressives can be equally homophobic). These cases are merely symptomatic of the general structures.

Placing emphasis on individuals here leads to a number of strange outcomes. One instance is above, where it is apparently individuals’ fear of their own sexualities that causes homophobia. A related version of this is the “conservative politicians, etc” are actually homophobic because they are gay – as if gay people are the ones causing their own repression.

When analysing homophobia or transphobia you should first start with gender, and then move to what the material impacts on the group who is being oppressed are. Very little of this aligns with what the intent or the incentives of the oppressor group are, because they are also largely removed from the incentive structures and pervasive indoctrination that these systems cause. If we focus on the latter, we get the wrong results and this causes us to prioritise resources in the wrong ways.

A good example of the difference between these approaches is when we consider the difference between homophobia and biphobia (or bi erasure). Biphobia is not, by itself, a coherent concept. If you are a bi person who is experiencing oppression due to perceived same gender attraction, then that is misplaced homophobia. The oppression you feel has nothing to do with your actual identity, as the structures don’t differentiate between homo/bi/pan/whateversexual people. Rather, you are being punished for a perceived failure to meet the appropriate strictures of your presumed gender role. The same is true if you are a bi woman and experiencing the higher rates of domestic violence and sexual assault that bi women face. That is not “biphobia”, it is a manifestation of misogyny, and by misunderstanding the structures that cause it our attempts to help these people will be misguided. “Bi erasure” by itself, by contrast, has very little to do with material structures - at best it is individuals acting in a discriminatory ways. There is no structure that causes oppression here. It is definitely invalidating and upsetting, but it is not a form of oppression, and the amount of discursive space and resources it takes up in LGBT spaces and movements is disproportionate to its place in the structures of oppression. This is why it is important to conceive of these things in the right way.

I would also note that homophobia is not on the decline, and data from nearly all Western countries show that instances of homophobic and transphobic hate crimes etc. are on the rise. The only thing that has actually changed are rates of “acceptance” of LGBT people. But this again misplaces the cause of oppression. The fact that more people are tolerant of LGBT people does not free them from the still very real structures that continue to make their lives worse. This is the danger of the above view of how homophobia works – in misunderstanding causation we also misunderstand what the outcomes we seek should be, and LGBT people remain oppressed but celebrate minor and immaterial shifts in public opinion.
 
So I have a friend who's a staunch Republican (yay, US politics), and me, being a complete idiot, decided to come out to him as bi. I already knew he was homophobic and transphobic, and yet, I try to come out to him over discord...

My major observation throughout the process is that unwillingness to accept people comes through ignorance. My homophobic friend never interacted with anyone who he knew was LGBTQ+, which allowed the words of others to form his opinion on the LGBTQ+ community. I feel like the only way to stop homophobia/transphobia is to force homophobic/transphobic people to learn more about the LGBTQ+ community.
 

Tenshi

We don't have to be related to relate
is a Live Chat Contributor
Yeah a large issue for LGBTQIA+ issues is the lack of knowledge and the stubborn unwillingness to learn or accept people who are different from your beliefs. Unfortunately all of the prejudices and religion especially in the US really just forms a brick wall where people just shut out anything that isn't their opinion(hell this also applies to pretty much any form of identity, even political identity), I think the strides of introducing LGBTQIA+ topics in schools are certainly a big step forward but it's probably going to be some time we really ever see some fruits of the labor, especially since there's been a decline of acceptance in a lot of areas which isn't a pretty sign.
props to you for having the courage to come out regardless though it's tough to do.
 
So, talked to my friend again, and apparently, me coming out to him changed his opinion from one of being totally against the LGBTQ+ community to one of "I may not necessary agree, but I don't have anything against LGBTQ+ people", which is the type of change that is necessary to have people be more accepting of the LGBTQ+ community.
 
So, talked to my friend again, and apparently, me coming out to him changed his opinion from one of being totally against the LGBTQ+ community to one of "I may not necessary agree, but I don't have anything against LGBTQ+ people", which is the type of change that is necessary to have people be more accepting of the LGBTQ+ community.
It reminds me of when I came out in high school. People were actually very supportive, especially the girl who I was dating when it happened. Looking back, she probably was the only one who had the right to be upset, but that wasn't really like her. I remember people saying things like "As long as you don't rub it in my face" and me being like "Nooooo of course not" like I was just glad they didn't actively hate me. One of my closest friends said "At least you're like... Talented. Like, you play piano and stuff... So you're one of the good ones." The implication being that if I didn't have some kind of skill I'd be worthless like gay people without talents? And I was okay with that too. Today you wouldn't get away with saying things like that to me.... But I also think a lot less people are actually saying it to begin with. Which is nice. I encounter pretty much no negativity about my sexuality in every day life. Even the gun-toting, Trump loving, women are not equal to men, socialism is the devil, bible-weaponizing guy at work is very friendly to me. He even flirts, lol.
 

kaori

Fully Automated Gay Space Communism
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Hi smogon dot com slash forums, posting here to formally come out as trans here. It's been a long struggle over the past couple years figuring myself out, but I think I'm finally comfortable enough to accept myself and start moving forward on making the best version of myself that I can. I'm going by Hana now and use she/her pronouns, so uh nice to meet you all again :)
 
Hi smogon dot com slash forums, posting here to formally come out as trans here. It's been a long struggle over the past couple years figuring myself out, but I think I'm finally comfortable enough to accept myself and start moving forward on making the best version of myself that I can. I'm going by Hana now and use she/her pronouns, so uh nice to meet you all again :)
Hey Hana!

I'm trans myself (use she/her), and I don't think i've OFFICIALLY came out here yet, so uhhh I guess I'm officially coming out now? Dunno.
That's like the physical worst I could write for a comeout post.

Nobody here can do worse.
 

starry blanket

骑虎难下
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
im detransitioning
in the last few days, i've had a good handful of people ask about my experience with detransitioning. not sure why multiple people have decided to ask me all around the same time, but it has led me to believe some explanation on my situation and feelings could maybe help some people. anything i say is just my personal experiences, and to those who are not LGBT or allies, my experience is not indicative of the typical transgender experience whatsoever, so don't use me detransitioning as a weapon against trans people in this community please.
i "officially" decided i was trans somewhat young, 14 or 15. at the time, and for the next maybe year, year and a half, i assumed being trans was this sort of magical thing in the sense that you can just flip a switch and change your gender. this is actually a shoddy "test" used by a lot of people in trans communities: "if you could flip a switch right now to make you a woman, would you flip it." "yes." "boom, you're trans." this is obviously foolish, but it shows the attitude of the LGBT and eventually just T communities i joined at a young age. at this time, i had not made any moves irl whatsoever. my "plan" was literally to transition after i finished college and got a professional job, expecting that when i started taking hormones i would just magically become a woman.

this is one of many cases of me not actually being interested in furthering my transition.

come senior year of highschool and my freshman year of college, this was probably the most depressing period in my life (also when i lost most of my friends, both irl and on here). i joined a trans discord that was loosely connected to 4chan's /lgbt/ board, and from there i joined multiple offshoot servers. to be clear, i don't think a server that is even remotely related to 4chan is a good place to be, and at the time i was smart enough to know to be suspicious of certain behaviors in there.

some good things came out of these communities, though. i made some good friends i still talk to to this day, and many older (mid to late 20s) transwomen who had been through the fire of it all gave me a realistic rundown. on one hand, i had people telling me transition is magical and will work out no matter what (the earlier people i alluded to), and on the other, i had people in these 4chan adjacent servers saying transition was all doom and gloom. the more mature people i met gave me a middle ground, a very realistic perspective on transition that gave me a lot to think of for the years to come. they explained to me what hormones and surgeries can and can't do, what transitioning is actually like (both the good and the bad), their experiences, how they came out of it feeling overall better about their lives, etc. in short, they showed me that transition isn't easy, but is worth it if you really want to go through with it.

i was never sure if i wanted to go through with it, though. i kinda decided that i was trans haphazardly. i have a sort of androgynous personality, leaning fem i guess? i like men (and women, but mostly men), so i would probably be happier as a woman, right? this is obviously a very backwards way of viewing gender, but it is coming from someone who has grown up around a very homophobic extended family, where most of the men are very proud of their machismo.

for the next few years, i didn't do much to further my transition. my appearance irl became more androgynous because of developing an eating disorder, growing out my hair, dressing more feminine, etc. i came out to a couple people irl, had a couple irl trans friends as well, but i was basically living in this in between. here is the big thing: whenever the opportunity arose for me to get on hormones, whether that be by official or unofficial means, i would put it off and dodge it. yes, a lot of the things hormones do the first few months are easily reversible, but some things aren't. i am an anxious person (not anymore, we'll get to that...), and my mind ruminated for years on the what ifs. "what if i want to go back" "what if i don't like the changes" etc. i spent a few years, from senior year of highschool to the time i made that post, living in that in between. my body dysmorphia was at an all time high, especially the first half of this period. my anxiety was through the roof. i was severely depressed. extremely suicidal.

at some point, my viewpoint became more flexible. i don't really know what changed it for me, probably just maturing, honestly. for one, i realized (so don't criticize my post up to this point for this) that being trans comes in all different shapes and sizes. some people opt to never transition medically, others are not simply mtf, etc. none of this stuff particularly applied to me, but it gave me the slightest bit more comfort living in that in between.

i finally realized, though, that this is no place to get comfortable. it had been what? 5 or 6 years??? and i had not really made much progress. something had to be done, so i decided to do SOMETHING. fuck it, i'll try not identifying as mtf for a bit. if it makes me feel worse, then i know i should jump on transition right away. if it makes me feel better, then i'm gucci.

that's where i am today. since a month or two before i made that post, around early september, i am no longer depressed. some things make me depressed sometimes, but that's a natural part of the human experience. my anxiety is a lot less severe. my body image is a lot better. i kicked my eating disorder (though gaining all these lbs from the holidays and then this quarantine isn't sitting right with me aha). i have not had any suicidal or self harm thoughts in a long time. once in a blue moon i get that voice in teh back of my head "this wont last." but i'm not exaggerating when i say it is probably 1000x less than the voice in my head that doubted transition. i feel better.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

one doesn't just go from wanting to be a woman to being fine with being a grown ass man overnight though, right?

in some ways my feelings are nonbinary, but i don't feel a need to identify or describe them in that way because simply put i am comfortable with being a man, so it is easier to identify as a man. path of least resistance. i also think i do have some degree of legitimate gender dysphoria, but when i weigh that desire to be a woman against my desire to not transition, the desire to not transition outweighs it severely. i am perfectly happy living as a man, and i would also be perfectly happy living as a woman. in short, i just don't give a shit about gender anymore. it is complicated, and i think i got too caught up in mixing both my negative body image with my feminine personality (which is more androgynous, for the record) and my sexuality, culminating in this desire to have those things line up as society typically wants them to line up: the thing that acts feminine is a woman.

what does it mean to be a man? what does it mean to be a woman? i don't really know, i don't think i care either though. well that's a lie, i kinda do. my perception of masculinity and how it relates to being a man was severely warped due to seeing those toxic aspects of masculinity in my surroundings and being a queer, sort of feminine person. i made being a man a negative thing (not in that altright incel type of way oh god) because i have grown up around so many men who embody those negative characteristics.

in short though, i just don't think i really give a shit about gender anymore. physically i would probably prefer to look more androgynous, but i've actually made an effort to look more masculine since detransitioning, and i don't know why but i prefer it. i was bullied a lot for my appearance in my formative years, and that probably played a part in me deciding i was transgender. all i know is that now i feel mostly good about my physical appearance.

my advice to anyone with similar thoughts it to make sure you are doing what is right for you. weigh your desire to transition against your desire to be a woman. if you don't want to transition, you don't have to. it's as simple as that. also, i think people need to think very long and hard before deciding on something like this. i am not joking when i say these types o feelings were not present prior to like what, the week? that i decided i was trans. i was one of those few cases of a confused kid with bad body image and identity issues. most people are not, though.

god bless you all.
 

Crux

i want it...
Let’s talk about Pokepride. This isn’t a callout or directed at anyone in particular, but I will be taking some examples to make the point. If you think this is about you, don’t take it personally – I think this is a good opportunity for all of us to think and reflect on what this space should be. Some initial thoughts:
  • I am posting this here because it has been made abundantly clear that discussion about practices, or anything really, is not allowed in the server. When raised in the chat, or with the moderation team, any criticism is either ignored or summarily shut down with absolutely no self-reflection. We’ve also been directed to take discussion that can’t happen there, here. Voila.
  • Some of you will probably see this as the continued ramblings and insurrection of one or two disgruntled homosexuals, and be tempted to dismiss this on that basis. I would note, however, that the server has an active userbase of about 15, and about half of them share these concerns but have thought it fruitless to bring it up to the moderation team, as they (rightly) believe they will be either ignored or kicked.
  • It is important to note that the server is at least quasi-official. It is advertised in the only LGBT discussion thread on the forum, is relatively entrenched, and advertises itself as such in other discords and on PS. This makes it open to critique, and thoughts like “why not go elsewhere” are misguided at best. At the very least, your representations should somewhat align with what you are providing.
  • It’s also clear some of you don’t like me. That’s fine, engage with this in good faith regardless. I think very little of this should have anything to do with me, or any other individual in particular, and I’d hate for this opportunity to improve the server to simply collapse into pointless mudslinging.
How is the server currently failing?
  • There is a complete lack of discussion. Queer spaces have historically been, and remain, one of the only places LGBT people from different backgrounds can come together to learn from one another, facilitate a better understanding of our shared identities, histories, and politics, as well as to organise and mobilise with one another. I can appreciate a desire to also cater to people who do not want that, and would rather socialise, vent, or just want solidarity. But these two cannot and should not be separated. For instance, a lack of understanding of the relative power dynamics between users in a server that also caters to allies has caused many users of the server to feel alienated and discriminated against by those users. When those issues are brought up with server staff, they have been dismissed. The saturation of the Discord by allies displaces the experiences of LGBT people, especially those that the server is apparently setting itself out to protect. Trite responses and often directly harmful advice are the most common response to venting. If you want another 1v1 Discord, make one and have fun there. But don’t pretend you’re doing something different. Another example is its attempt to be apolitical, but to apply this in oddly asymmetric ways. Supporting the US military, an actively homophobic and transphobic institution responsible for the deaths of LGBT people and PoC around the world and an instrument of neo-imperialism? Fine. Supporting Israel, responsible for much the same? Fine. Promoting and protecting users who have spread transphobic nonsense about bone density defining gender? Also, fine. But if those things are challenged or even vaguely radical views are put forward, they are shut down immediately. This seems perverse.
  • This lack of discussion also hurts LGBT people in general. A significant part of LGBT spaces is helping people uncover and understand their identities, particularly when they lack knowledge on the subject. How can you fully understand your identity as a trans woman without an understanding of gender? You can’t. How can you know what it is to be a gay man without understanding its constituent identity? It is not even a coherent concept. It is discussions like these, however, that are routinely shut down for fear of upsetting people, or the balance of the server. The mechanism for this is typically claiming that whatever channel the discussion was being had in was not the appropriate forum for that discussion, in spite of the fact that the discussion had grown out of that channel organically. A few of us suggested that a discussion channel might be a reasonable compromise. In fact, I cannot see a single reason not to implement such a policy. It was denied.
  • There is a complete lack of accountability. Rules are applied asymmetrically. Another user posted a piece of rather explicit gay literature. He was banned. This, by itself, is probably defensible. But then myself and another user enquired after this, making more or less the same points. I was banned, they were not. Today, when an admin posted even more explicit references to pornography, and was rightly questioned about it, the questioner was simply told to stop asking. The proposed approach is to instead message an admin. But when users who do so are dismissed in PM, then mocked and derided in separate mod chats, how can they really approach this? Or alternatively, when enquiring about a decision, they are directly lied to by the administrator they asked. If you want to ban all NSFW content, then do so, but apply it appropriately and to yourselves. It is deeply unclear to me why an apparently progressive administration team would not have any kind of public accountability mechanisms, and seek to actively shut down the few that exist. Pokepride is an interesting balance – it seeks to maintain a LGBT space where minors and adults discuss things, where both are usually coming from very vulnerable backgrounds, often with histories of abuse. I think it is very dangerous to allow this to continue, for rather obvious reasons.
I don’t think you need very far between the lines to work out how to fix the problems here. Why you have been so reticent continues to baffle me.
 
my fave experience in pokepride was when i responded to a person who ID'd as straight (and often leveraged his allyship for attn [he is apparently now 'bicurious']) posting this meme and i was told to not attack other users when i critiqued it! :/



neutrality grants you.. that. as acceptable. in a queer chat. just a joke though!

as crux detailed, pokepride attempts to operate as a safe space geared toward allowing young queers to blossom without providing the necessary foundations to do so. moderation emphasizes 'niceness' toward others, ignoring critical power dynamics that come into play in queer spaces. i agree that many young users need a space to explore their identities, grow as people, and discuss with others to cement themselves as valid in a space--often, their first time doing so. but we cannot do that effectively without open discussion regarding oppressive behaviors. additionally, the moderation team's incredibly incongruent methods of dishing out punishment, leveraging of the rules at their own convenience, and inability to assess discussion makes the point of the server rather moot. for some reason, many of the mods see any disagreement destructively as opposed to constructively, and perhaps that stems from their own insecurities and biases surrounding their beliefs and politics. you can't have a queer server without any sort of civic discourse. our identities are politicized, after all.

and this isn't to say that i believe a simple lgbt disc should be a space of pure radical queer theory. i am not suggesting we force users to read butler or they're banned. like, i am a person who shoots the shit! and holds space for people going through it. like, i wish i had a pokepride when i was in my teens. i would like to be there for peeps who are going through it. but the way the server is run is absolutely abhorrent.

that being said, if you want to participate in a friendly queer disc with folks who possess an actual sense of humor, grounding in sociopolitical and queer theory, and cynicism toward allies and liberals, hmu and i'll send you a link. :)
 
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Asheviere as one of the most disagreeable moderators, i am asking for a response and discussion. you have viewed this thread repeatedly already.

the fact that 3 of the most outspoken queers on this website (me, myzo, crux) find your handling of the server to be hamfisted speaks legions to your effectiveness as a moderator.

thanks!
 

Mewtwo Uranium

Banned deucer.
I am gonna say something rn.
I have never played the "fall in love" deck of cards(Metaphor)and I think super different(like,so lit)and Im very passionate whether in a game or IRL, if I see someone doubting themselves/crying, I give them hugs and things like that.
Just saying, I also can get very angry, too, so I like to see friendly communities.


Wow nice to see ppl like my personality
 
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Jakee

destroyed by global warming
View attachment 239185
even as a joke, talk like this in a "a safe space geared toward allowing young queers to blossom" seems very troubling given the track record of certain other notorious individuals associated with the Smogon community
I think that it's pretty obvious that they're joking. Context is sometimes hard to read over a screenshot in which you cut it out not showing the entire conversation. Just a thought...
 

Attachments

tcr

sage of six tabs
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this thread is a trainwreck

anyway

im nominating twice's what is love as a certified Queer Song, it bops and slaps
I think this is the exact kind of post that people like crux or starry blanket are posting about. any time any actual discussion or self reflection is brought up someone (usually a core cabal of predictable users) responds with some quip along the veins of yikes sweetie and things move on

I also think the above discord screen is not only really cringy and a pretty poor excuse for a joke it also demonstrates an absurd level of professionalism expected from a community leader and discord server owner. regardless if it was a joke or not its not appropriate for a community leader and ps admin to ever post about having a 13yo gf; especially considering the history smogon has of harboring actual grooming pedophiles in its leadership and how the server (idk for sure but i can make an educated guess) is hosting a median age of probably 15-16
 
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I think this is the exact kind of post that people like
crux or starry blanket are posting about. any time any actual discussion or self reflection is brought up someone (usually a core cabal of predictable users) responds with some quip along the veins of yikes sweetie and things move on

[other stuff that i know less about]
literally nothing good comes from arguing in the thread, its just... arguing over irrelevant points, people get angry fast, out of context screenshots, personal attacks etc etc etc etc. it serves no purpose except to call people out and the whole thing couldve been resolved as a discord gc/smog conversation/etc
 
my fave experience in pokepride was when i responded to a person who ID'd as straight (and often leveraged his allyship for attn [he is apparently now 'bicurious']) posting this meme and i was told to not attack other users when i critiqued it! :/



neutrality grants you.. that. as acceptable. in a queer chat. just a joke though!

as crux detailed, pokepride attempts to operate as a safe space geared toward allowing young queers to blossom without providing the necessary foundations to do so. moderation emphasizes 'niceness' toward others, ignoring critical power dynamics that come into play in queer spaces. i agree that many young users need a space to explore their identities, grow as people, and discuss with others to cement themselves as valid in a space--often, their first time doing so. but we cannot do that effectively without open discussion regarding oppressive behaviors. additionally, the moderation team's incredibly incongruent methods of dishing out punishment, leveraging of the rules at their own convenience, and inability to assess discussion makes the point of the server rather moot. for some reason, many of the mods see any disagreement destructively as opposed to constructively, and perhaps that stems from their own insecurities and biases surrounding their beliefs and politics. you can't have a queer server without any sort of civic discourse. our identities are politicized, after all.

and this isn't to say that i believe a simple lgbt disc should be a space of pure radical queer theory. i am not suggesting we force users to read butler or they're banned. like, i am a person who shoots the shit! and holds space for people going through it. like, i wish i had a pokepride when i was in my teens. i would like to be there for peeps who are going through it. but the way the server is run is absolutely abhorrent.

that being said, if you want to participate in a friendly queer disc with folks who possess an actual sense of humor, grounding in sociopolitical and queer theory, and cynicism toward allies and liberals, hmu and i'll send you a link. :)

Hey, not going to comment on the rest of the argument, but i'd like to point out the start of the post where you said
"my fave experience in pokepride was when i responded to a person who ID'd as straight (and often leveraged his allyship for attn [he is apparently now 'bicurious']) posting this meme and i was told to not attack other users when i critiqued it! :/"

I dont know if you notice this when typing it out, but you're actively doubting someone's sexuality by saying " [he is apparently now 'bicurious']) "
I think its disingenuous to say that you want to improve pokepride while doubting someone's sexuality.
 

talah

a little peace, a little love~, a little bliss
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Driver Alumnus
Hey, not going to comment on the rest of the argument, but i'd like to point out the start of the post where you said
"my fave experience in pokepride was when i responded to a person who ID'd as straight (and often leveraged his allyship for attn [he is apparently now 'bicurious']) posting this meme and i was told to not attack other users when i critiqued it! :/"

I dont know if you notice this when typing it out, but you're actively doubting someone's sexuality by saying " [he is apparently now 'bicurious']) "
I think its disingenuous to say that you want to improve pokepride while doubting someone's sexuality.
bicurious isn't a sexuality. it's a label supposed to convey that someone is questioning their sexuality, usually from a starting point of identifying as straight to thinking one can be bi, as that's the large majority of people who find that label fitting. it's also used a lot by people who really want to fit in with LGBT circles for whatever reason but aren't actually LGBT; not saying that's necessarily the user dice is talking about but it's a very real thing, and i don't see why a gay dude can't be at least cautious with someone that posted something like that while using the 'bicurious' label.
 
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