Serious LGBTQ+

Tenshi

We don't have to be related to relate
is a Live Chat Contributor
It's pretty obvious that the issue people are having is that the state of the police is not an LGBTQ issue. You can use stonewall as an example of how cops have abused their power to enforce bigotry sure, but that doesn't make the discussion of reformation/abolishment of the police force an lgbt issue because it's not. This is an important discussion to be had sure but it would be much more productive to make a new thread about it or find a more fitting subforum, being condescending when people redirect or ignore you isn't how you settle something and makes you seem childish at best. I don't think anyone was out of line not wanting the discussion about cops here since I'm pretty sure you weren't talking about lgbtq+ cops

But that's all I have to input on this so you do you if doing you is what makes you happy :blobthumbsup:
 
the irony of this argument being used in an lgbtq thread is blowing my feeble mind right now. "maybe people would take u seriously if you werent so angry about it" like i'm really reading this ;_;
i know im convinced there are like a gang of people who just wait in corners for ppl to get mad abt something so they can chime in without reading anything lmao

It's pretty obvious that the issue people are having is that the state of the police is not an LGBTQ issue. You can use stonewall as an example of how cops have abused their power to enforce bigotry sure, but that doesn't make the discussion of reformation/abolishment of the police force an lgbt issue because it's not. This is an important discussion to be had sure but it would be much more productive to make a new thread about it or find a more fitting subforum, being condescending when people redirect or ignore you isn't how you settle something and makes you seem childish at best. I don't think anyone was out of line not wanting the discussion about cops here since I'm pretty sure you weren't talking about lgbtq+ cops

But that's all I have to input on this so you do you if doing you is what makes you happy :blobthumbsup:
It makes me very sad to see people picking and choosing what their politics involves. We should be a group that fights against all forms of oppression, and to do that we obviously need to discuss it. I thought this group would be better than my mum's facebook group, and it turns out it was much worse. (I went for melancholy here instead - I hope this suited you better?)
 
this is less of an argument and more of a circlejerk between two gay discord factions as evident by the same 10 people liking a post depending on who makes it.

zeito is in the right here. just wait until you guys learn everything is political.
 

Ashley

goes by Lauren now
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Quick life update: if all goes well I'm scheduled to start HRT by the end of next month. It's the conclusion of an 8 month battle but I'll have the financial support of my family while I get on my feet where I'll be trusted to take things from there. It only took a really bad dysphoria attack to convince me that I need to take action so I did! I sincerely hope pokepride continues to flourish but I can finally breathe easy for once, and do so on my own. :)
 

Exeggutor

twist
is a Live Chat Contributor
To be a bit more serious, in place of the mediocre argument above I'll talk a bit more about masculinity and womanhood

I have a testosterone appointment next week. This is something I've flip-flopped on for the last 4 or so years. It's the culmination of three years of waiting lists, clerical errors and appointment delays; two private doctors and a prescription that I didn't fulfil; and a psychologist with the mental health service. It's all come down to a meeting over Zoom with a clinician who knows my past and my identity through what's written down on my file.

It's taken this long in part because I'm hesitant. I've spoken previously about my social transition, my reidentification, and my social detransition. Everything that's led up to this point was fuelled by my own hesitation to commit to something that I did not want to regret. I do not regret my reidentification, and I am happy living as a woman without many other labels. But I still find myself wanting some of the masculinising effects of testosterone - the deeper voice, the effects on my body. Refusing to give myself a label beyond what I was born sometimes feels almost like a cop out, like I'm trying to escape the negatives attached with being transmasculine by saying I'm a woman.

At the same time, I find myself looking towards older detransitioned women, women who are older than me and have been through the wringer and have come out of it satisfied and happy. Their womanhood isn't questioned - they were born and are women, and it's not something they question. And yet it's something others question for them. It's something that the gender-critical rejoice in (before they realise you've transitioned medically and you're not as useful for virtue signalling.) It's something conservatives push as a narrative against transgender people. It's something some trans people look on with scepticism. No matter what I say I am - a woman, transmasculine, a trans man - my journey is the same, and no matter what I call myself my existence in an of itself is, to some people, political.

No matter what happens, I can choose to just "be" and not let these things impact me. They're other people's thoughts, after all. But I don't live in a bubble, and these are all things that I will have to reconcile with. No matter what I think about myself or call myself or decide to do with my body, everyone else has an opinion about it and a way they want to spin it, and it kind of sucks.

I am completely genuine when I say Son Goku is my role model though, he is buff as hell and fights for his friends
 

Crux

i want it...
It's pretty obvious that the issue people are having is that the state of the police is not an LGBTQ issue. You can use stonewall as an example of how cops have abused their power to enforce bigotry sure, but that doesn't make the discussion of reformation/abolishment of the police force an lgbt issue because it's not. This is an important discussion to be had sure but it would be much more productive to make a new thread about it or find a more fitting subforum, being condescending when people redirect or ignore you isn't how you settle something and makes you seem childish at best. I don't think anyone was out of line not wanting the discussion about cops here since I'm pretty sure you weren't talking about lgbtq+ cops

But that's all I have to input on this so you do you if doing you is what makes you happy :blobthumbsup:
This is untrue. LGBT people are more likely to be targeted and harassed by police than others. They are more likely to, when in custody, face physical and sexual abuse from both police and others who are also in custody. They are more likely to be homeless or in poverty, which exacerbates the likelihood of their being targeted by police and unable to access their legal rights in response due to their lack of capital.

This may come as a shock to you, but black people can be gay or trans. When these individuals are targeted by police, they are more likely to experience discrimination and violence.

Here are some quick sources that you might find enlightening:

https://www.kent.edu/sites/default/files/file/Police_Brutality.pdf
https://d21zrvtkxtd6ae.cloudfront.n...isexual-and-transgender-people-in-the-USA.pdf
 

Robyn

I have become comfortably numb~
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Your failure to understand has a clear-cut and obvious explanation - I've seen this kind of rhetoric far too much in Pokepride. Thank you for the conversation - I hope you are able to prioritise important causes before defense of your own character in future. We call that taking responsibility.
I honestly can’t sleep right now (my insomnia has come back lately) and I feel I owe this a better response than the quick semi-sarcastic jab I gave previously. Not even going to begin to address what came after this post, I don’t think that’s a good usage of time.

I understand the points that you’ve made perfectly well, I’m not entirely sure what you mean by a “clear-cut and obvious explanation” but that is wholly irrelevant to the larger point here. I think that the continued confusion stems from not understanding why I responded to your post in the first place. I have no interest in having political debates on a Pokemon site, I value my mental health more than that, and I also recognize that my own political passion can be better spent in places where it actually counts and does some good, instead of here. You can say all you want that I value defending my own character more than important causes, but that is again indicative of the fact that you don’t know me or what I have done (and continue to do!) in the slightest. I opted to “defend my character” by posting here only because your original post felt much less like a conversation-starter and much more like a personal callout.
I'm a little skeptical to type out this post trying to explain it in case it simply falls on deaf ears.
I'll also, in the spirit of pride month, point to stonewall. You mentioned that we all should "try and promote tolerance and acceptance within the community", and yet you extend this tolerance to those members of the police force, those who serve the institution which raided the Stonewall Inn, one of the only safe space for LGBTQ+ members to be themselves.
They have murdered people for doing nothing wrong, still do, and yet you still believe they should have this power.
Lines like these have no place in a simple debate “prompt”, and in this case made it feel on the receiving end like you were saying “Robyn is unwilling to see her own ignorance, condones the Stonewall raid, and supports police brutality.” This is obviously something that I felt the need to dispute. Had you left out those parts and kept it to a simple disagreement of the issues themselves, I would not have gotten involved at all as you suggested, and perhaps we’d both be better for it. You can call this tone policing if you want to, but I see it more as an example of civility. I’m not some outsider telling The Passionate Gays to sit down and chill, I’m someone within the community who has come a long way herself in developing better formed and better educated opinions who is asking that you don’t go after me for things I did not say and do not believe.

I’ve said it previously and I’ll say it again, I don’t disagree with the bigger picture here! Police brutality and systemic racism is a horrible reality and it is a reality that I deal with every day of my life. Major systemic changes are absolutely necessary if we are to get anywhere near a solution to this problem. We disagree on a couple smaller points within that big picture, sure, but we share the same goal. Why come after me for that, and if your intention was not to come after me at all then why address my post in such a direct manner? There are a million ways to start a discussion on this exact topic that don’t involve calling me complicit in police brutality, but you chose none of them, and then you chose to insult me further by saying I do nothing but think about myself when I attempted to explain that I was only wanting to clear the air surrounding my own original post.

I would really like to try and explain again that I’m not offended by, nor am I mad about any of this, I’m just looking for you to understand where I am coming from and how it feels on the other side of this discussion. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being passionate about something, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with expressing that passion, I just think that finding a channel for that passion where something meaningful can actually come out of it is extremely important.
 
to end my part in this ill say thank u robyn for ur admission, albeit widely diluted by defensive remarks, of the bigger picture (i do think we have the same beliefs! but im still not happy on what u decided to put the focus on in your goodbye post - 20:1!!!), and thank u for all of the people desperate to drive a wedge between LGBTQ+ and other political issues for shutting up
 
Sorry if the wording for the incoming post is horrible I'm kinda feeling awkward writing this and I'm not feeling comfortable thinking it out properly.

I am transgender.

This is my first public coming out ever, none of my IRL pals ever heard about it, and only some very selected people online know. However recents event have motivated me to fully embrace it! Big thanks to the Pokepride server which I joined full of doubts, but spending 3 days there (even without being active) made it logical to me that all those people were fantastic and proud of themselves. Felt guilty about feeling scared of coming out while all of those people did it!

I've always felt uncertain if it was actually relevant enough, if I could properly claim being so even though I've been living with so little people aware of it for so long? I couldn't tell the gap between "I'm just handling it because that is wrong" and "I'm not brave enough and scared of peoples opinions" but yo whatever fuck it let's go. I have planned on coming out to my IRLs quite soon, and feeling confident about it. If it doesn't turn out well then whatever, I'll have done it and be proud of myself. It took me long enough to understand that not being exactly like your friends want you to isn't "being selfish".

I'm not sure how to end this, I'm very sorry if anyone doesn't like the way I explained it, I did mean nothing wrong to anyone, I'm proud of every LGBTQ+ and allies in this world.

Thanks to all the people that handled and helped me when I was feeling uncomfortable about it, no one ever turned me down and that makes me feel like the luckiest person.

Big thanks to Alkione for helping me out the most with it. Also Aurella you're fantastic keep it up, you're a major part of why I'm feeling comfortable as of right now (If you don't recognize me post-rename, I was that person that got you in that french teamtour about a year ago).

I'm unsure how to end this, but against thanks to everyone on here :blobnom: <3
 
Hello,

hope everyone is well. Hope you all had a great pride month.

I don't really post here, but I feel like reflecting on some things I've kept internalised for a long time.

I figured out my identity a long time ago (8-9 years) and its no secret to people who actually know me on Smogon that I am Bisexual and I'm a Transgender woman.

Every pride month makes me reflect on the same thing, I will never be able to be fully out to a select number of crucial people in my life and that is something ive kept from a lot of my friends here, I always feel like I will never truly be accepted by key individuals in my life due to their beliefs and thats been the case for a very long time. It's been getting to me for years, Im autistic and I don't really have anyone to talk to about how I am feeling and I find it hard to talk about my emotions. I just want to escape it all and truly be the person I want to be and be accepted.

Hope everyone else is having a more successful time in their lives with whatever it may be and doesn't make the same mistakes ive made in my life. Lately I lost a lot of important things in my life and it made me reflect on a lot, especially me as a person. Just really wanted to get this off my mind I guess and vent my grievances.
 

brightobject

look at my hat
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
Something that is often overlooked during these debates about intersectionality of blackness and gayness etc. etc. amidst the protests is the deep, long-standing connection between black rights and queer rights. Consider that Marsha P. Johnson and Zazu Nova, two of the most prominent figures leading activist efforts re: the Stonewall Riots, were black GNC people (Johnson ended up founding STAR and playing a part in ACT UP as well). James Baldwin is more known for his work on race but also was active on educating the public about homosexuality and bisexuality through books like Giovanni's Room (which featured an all-white cast, funnily enough). Audre Lorde of course goes without saying. And the list goes on. Queerness and LGBTQ+ rights owe so much of their progress and recognition to the labor of black queer activists who were doubly targeted by the white supremacist hegemony, and refusing to acknowledge their legacy and work effectively whitewashes the struggle for LGBTQ+ liberation in a way that needs interrogation. Corporations trying to use Pride (TM) and white gays complaining about Pride month being cancelled is symptomatic of the same kind of insidious reasoning, as is people talking about queerness as something "apolitical" and trying to "separate" it from BLM. As LGBTQ rights start moving more and more into the "acceptable" (and becomes more and more susceptible to this kind of mainstreaming in the process) it's time (and has been time for a while now) to seriously reckon with the identities/intersections of identities of the people that helped make this kind of present possible (not to say that this present is ideal by any means)--and the work that is needed to unlearn the 'sanitized' queer narrative that has been fed to us. Something to think about!

e: mistakenly id'd marsha and zazu as trans women. Thanks Crux!
 
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Crux

i want it...
While I agree with the general sentiment of this post, there was some discussion upthread about why assigning identities to people who did not claim those identities while alive is incredibly harmful and disrespectful to those people. Neither Marsha P. Johnson nor Zazu Nova identified as trans women, they said as much in interviews while they were alive, and that is continuously confirmed by people who knew them whenever this "black trans woman" narrative is brought up every Pride month.

Here is an interview with Marsha, for instance: https://pastebin.com/U2Ftuy01
 
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starry blanket

骑虎难下
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
While I agree with the general sentiment of this post, there was some discussion upthread about why assigning identities to people who did not claim those identities while alive is incredibly harmful and disrespectful to those people. Neither Martha P. Johnson nor Zazu Nova identified as trans women, they said as much in interviews while they were alive, and that is continuously confirmed by people who knew them whenever this "black trans woman" narrative is brought up every Pride month.

Here is an interview with Martha, for instance: https://pastebin.com/U2Ftuy01
i haven't read this yet but i agree
 

brightobject

look at my hat
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
While I agree with the general sentiment of this post, there was some discussion upthread about why assigning identities to people who did not claim those identities while alive is incredibly harmful and disrespectful to those people. Neither Martha P. Johnson nor Zazu Nova identified as trans women, they said as much in interviews while they were alive, and that is continuously confirmed by people who knew them whenever this "black trans woman" narrative is brought up every Pride month.

Here is an interview with Martha, for instance: https://pastebin.com/U2Ftuy01
Completely valid criticism, that's my own bad. I've corrected my post to say black GNC re: Zazu and Marsha. Thanks for the callout!
 
To start things off, I'm a couple months removed from anything Smogon related so the timing on this is, understandably, weird. However, in light of recent changes I've heard in the community, people who were still in my social life, and among the video game world as a whole, I think that this account of my time might be valuable just to give what I hope is an honest perspective. Maybe it will help people empathize with those put in uncomfortable situations, maybe it won't. Either way I think there are some things being worth said. Mods, I'm really unsure where to post this since I have been so out of the loop, but it broadly touches on misogyny and transphobia, mostly with how it intersected for me in the tournaments community. Feel free to move this wherever it should be.

I've always had a tenuous relationship with Smogon and competitive gaming as a whole. It was something that both fulfilled me and at the same time held me back. I imagine this feeling is much more universal among those of us who struggle with addiction than I knew at first, and I've talked to friends about this very matter. My intentions when I left competitive Pokemon were to silently bow out and just focus on myself and the truly important priorities in my life. Getting accepted back into university was the perfect excuse I had been looking for and I took it. A couple months pass, I keep in touch with a few people and mostly keep to my own business. I'm content focusing on school, at least it is keeping me busy during the quarantine. I have a pretty boring but at least pleasant 21st birthday. Eventually, the event of many people being banned a few days back reaches me. The only group chat I had left that was even Smogon-adjacent is deleted and I sit there wondering if I was kicked for some reason. I was then made aware of what happened to NG and it sparked some of the sadness and conflicting emotions I felt during my time here. One of those people was someone I was very close with, someone I'd met in real life and hung out with, confided in, and competed with, leaving me with incredibly mixed feelings I don't quite know how to process. The shocking variance between what was said in my texts and person to person, and what was shown in the document, it just wrecked me. Maybe I should have seen the signs. But it's easier to make excuses for people that you believe to be friends and who are supportive of you. The push and pull of the desire to find community and support while not betraying myself always reared its head in the end, and this relationship being ripped into something else entirely has had me ruminating on a lot of my experiences here for better or worse.

I was never a great tournament player. Average, maybe. I had my good performances, my bad ones, my ones in between. But the dichotomy between these performances was effectively what shaped my "persona" in the community at large and how loud I was, for lack of a better word. I can recognize this as a natural part of a competitive environment to a certain degree, but for me it felt like a hole I was either standing on top of or had fallen into. During SPL X, when I am in the motions of an awful season coming with high expectations, I ended up being involved in a trade with a certain player who ended up being banned for awful remarks. I don't remember specifically his comments around his permanent ban, or if he targeted me for anything. I do remember my status as a girl being called into question by many people I had never met. I had no idea what to do in that situation. How the fuck do I stand up for myself? I'm an 0-4 player battling like dirt and clearly in over my head. I ended up on another team where at times I was also forced into defending myself and my identity when I would never, ever, bring this up into the team chat. I quietly finish the season with a couple meaningless wins and bounce out to avoid having to deal with it. After a summer away from tours I slowly gear back into it for the new generation despite my hesitancy and prior experiences. My desire to redeem my poor play became one of the only things allowing me to hold onto the community despite knowing it would be unhealthy in the long run.

Even after a relatively successful SPL XI, I foolishly think that now I have put a positive result back up I am in the clear. Part of this is my naivete for assuming that people on the internet I'd never met had my back, but the burden shouldn't be on me to protect myself from harassment even behind closed doors. You can call me a pussy, a bitch, whatever you want, that shit just shouldn't fly. Making fun of my appearance, not even to my face, is cowardly. Befriending me to find out what is in my pants before reporting it to your friends is disgusting. Eventually it got to the breaking point for me, and I began planning for my retirement. Constantly the theme in my career was me associating with people who will choose to deny my existence, just because I do not want to upset anyone. My insistence on not associating with any queer or girl focused groups (ignoring any problems within them for the sake of argument) in the community was an attempt to distance myself from that crowd. It is an intensely othering vibe I gave off and I wish I could have shown more support to my fellow women in Smogon. The burden is upon the woman to break into one of these teams, take what could have been a man's spot, not be a "distraction," and perform in what might be an environment that is aggravating at best, and toxic or hostile at worst. Not all teams and cliques are like this, enough are that it is a problem. Other female players on the bubble in different places have no doubt felt the same. A while after SPL finished I decided it wasn't worth it to keep pushing for yet another self-imposed goal. What is the point of continuing to try to prove myself?

All of this is because women are forced into these unwinnable decisions of staying true to themselves and potentially facing harassment as many who were far more outspoken than I have, or trying to integrate deeper into the network without being branded as a problem and ignoring any offenses. I can only imagine it would be just as difficult as a cis woman, with its own sets of unique landmines to avoid, but my experiences do come from the trans perspective. So despite my hesitance to ever bring up this part of me into the public, I want to ask people who are skeptical just one thing. How would you feel if you had to constantly be on the defensive just for existing? It is an exhausting, thankless, fucking humiliating job that you are only signed up for because hundreds of thousands of people feel the need to debate whether you should be recognized or not. I get that it is different, or might not be what you are used to, and I can sympathize with feeling unsure of how to interact or dialogue with someone you do not understand. What hurts me is that the first response can be to belittle, harass, or deny experiences which are at this point common enough in society and medically backed. I am not going to pretend to be an expert on the science behind the identity. There is still clearly a long way to go in research, and I haven't read every study in the linked aggregation of journals, but I know that it is a wonderful resource for helping to educate yourself, including but not limited to longitudinal studies where transgender teens and young adults show massively decreased suicidal ideation upon receiving hormonal treatment and surgery, as well as depression and mental anxiety that dips very close to the national averages upon a social transition. These studies show effects of dysphoria being treated at least somewhat successfully and significantly helping to lower the risks these people have. I'm sure there are smarter people than I to ask further questions but the important part is to please try and understand from a perspective that might be completely alien to you.

I am not intending to demonize any one person or group or I would have made that abundantly clear from the beginning. I would love it if everyone in the community seriously thinks about the actions their words can have, especially behind closed doors. Only by understanding what these pervasive ideas that circulate are can you begin to try exorcising them. I was complicit in not stepping up to hateful speech at times in an effort to preserve my standing within the tournaments community, and I deeply regret that. Making the occasional remark that perpetuates exactly what made me leave, staying silent as someone feels uncomfortable, being unaware of groups or topics I joked about which ended up being very serious, those moments add up to any individual's experience, and I wish I could have been braver in the moment. Hearing about things like the Charity Bowl and what Smogon raised for the Black Lives Matter movement fills me with hope for the future of the community even if I am not a part of it, and I sincerely wish that everyone takes a look inward to keep pushing for respect, camaraderie, growth, competitiveness, and friendship among this game we all love. Thanks to my friends for still making the last couple years ones I will remember fondly overall. Be kind to one another, please, we need it now more than ever.
 
I'm slightly late to this conversation and I apologise if I'm dragging an old discussion up / rehashing some points already expressed in previous messages accidentally but nonetheless:

I really hate the way that a lot of LGBTQ+ people will often attempt to divert political issues which seemingly do not impact them to other spaces. To try and separate queerness from current conversations around police discrimination is first and foremost ignorant, but also seems to be an easy way for a lot of people to absolve themselves of their responsibility in situations like this - because many people seem to think as though their queerness is not inherently political, thus they shouldn't need to be involved in these conversations.

Even if the current mainstream conversation is largely centred around the racial discrimination in which the police continue to perpetuate rather than sexual/gender based discrimination, doesn't mean that we should be diverting these conversations to other spaces. It's important to keep in mind that we have queer black people in our community who will face BOTH racial and sexual/gender based discrimination from the police - and actively trying to dismiss and divert these important conversations around corruption in LGBTQ+ spaces because you deem them as "non-queer issues" shows a huge lack of regard for those people who will face said corruption in your community.

To separate the Stonewall riots and queerness from police reform/abolishment is...nonsensical to say the least. It was a very clear example of how the police force perpetuates bigotry and discrimination towards queer people. To abolish the police force is also to abolish police discrimination against all marginalised communities - which includes the LGBTQ+.
 
I'm slightly late to this conversation and I apologise if I'm dragging an old discussion up / rehashing some points already expressed in previous messages accidentally but nonetheless:

I really hate the way that a lot of LGBTQ+ people will often attempt to divert political issues which seemingly do not impact them to other spaces. To try and separate queerness from current conversations around police discrimination is first and foremost ignorant, but also seems to be an easy way for a lot of people to absolve themselves of their responsibility in situations like this - because many people seem to think as though their queerness is not inherently political, thus they shouldn't need to be involved in these conversations.

Even if the current mainstream conversation is largely centred around the racial discrimination in which the police continue to perpetuate rather than sexual/gender based discrimination, doesn't mean that we should be diverting these conversations to other spaces. It's important to keep in mind that we have queer black people in our community who will face BOTH racial and sexual/gender based discrimination from the police - and actively trying to dismiss and divert these important conversations around corruption in LGBTQ+ spaces because you deem them as "non-queer issues" shows a huge lack of regard for those people who will face said corruption in your community.

To separate the Stonewall riots and queerness from police reform/abolishment is...nonsensical to say the least. It was a very clear example of how the police force perpetuates bigotry and discrimination towards queer people. To abolish the police force is also to abolish police discrimination against all marginalised communities - which includes the LGBTQ+.
To your point:

I am late to this topic and convo, but I wanted to confirm, that you mean you want the police to be effectively removed?

Whatever replaces it will initially be seen as a better enforcement, but it could lead to the same pattern of power vs marginalized communities similar to the human nature to bully and ostracize anything (person, community, belief, etc.) seen as “Abnormal”, where the only way to relieve that group / individual is to demonstrate that they now or always did count as “normal”, or at least “natural” (such as someone going through a traumatic experience and no longer being “normal”, but it is “natural” that they feel nervous / panicked when around said bully... For example PTSD is a “natural” human response and has been accepted as a mental health legitimate condition and concern, rather than dismissed as simply “crazy”).

My advice:

Overall, we do need to be specific on patterns, and not just specific about historical reference points, which people can argue is a “one-off”, I think it would be more helpful to those who do not know our history, to go over patterns that plague a community,

For example, trans people are seen by law enforcement as prostitutes even if they are not, because in the evening the stigma is, “they are looking for a client”, even if they are simply waiting for a light to cross the street (similar to the way women are sometimes accused of being prostitutes, when judged by their attire, City, and time of day). Loitering does not equal prostitution, but to many police, sometimes implicit bias can override giving someone the benefit of the doubt. (There may be cases where certain cities have a high LGBT population, such as the Castro in SF, and so the culprit for those crimes are can be seen that it will more likely be LGBT person, because the LGBT is historically at a lower income rate, and are struggling to survive, but really it’s because that is the primary population of the area itself (more % of LGBT than straight people in that area).

Overall, Stonewall was an incident that became a historical reference point.

When we look at continuing patterns, we can acknowledge these problems are systemic, and persistent, rather than a one-off example.

I know your points were in agreement that the LGBT+ community is historically victimized, but I think it will be more effective to highlight how it continues, and where that stems from, such as the Trans / drag community becoming stereotyped as prostitutes, when they are out, or viewed as “dressed proactively” in the evening.

A dress is not an invitation, it is part of an outfit.
 
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My original post was moreso a response to the diversion of current discourse regarding the police from this thread, as many were seemingly ignorant to the fact that police brutality (and general police reform / abolition) is very much so a queer issue, just as it is a racial one.

To answer your question though, yes, I am for the abolition of the police force.

Whatever replaces it will initially be seen as a better enforcement, but it could lead to the same pattern of power vs marginalized communities similar to the human nature to bully and ostracize anything (person, community, belief, etc.)
From what I'm understanding, your point is that there is always going to be a power imbalance that can lead to abuse (more specifically marginalisation of specific communities) in situations where one group of people are responsible for the consequences of another, thus you do not think police abolition would be effective or question it at the very least.

For starters, police abolition is a super complex topic to talk about. Abolitionists recognise that the criminal justice system as a whole is actually hugely corrupt and oppressive towards everybody. Apologies if I don't have all the correct things to say on this topic.

I feel as though your points aren't super relevant to the alternatives that have been offered up by abolitionists, because you're failing to realise that the ostracisation and oppression you speak of is a direct result of the insane amount of power within the criminal justice system. Nowhere near the amount of power that the current CJS holds would be occupying new systems/alternatives offered up by abolitionists. The intent of these systems would also be completely different.

There is a huge power imbalance between the current police force and the average person (even bigger when said person is apart of a marginalised community). When we evaluate this "power" that the current police force holds over the average person - the abuse of said power is life threatening, as we've seen in recent events and throughout history. The current ostracisation and "bullying" carried out by the police (and the overall CJS) is actually ruining lives and putting them in danger. This also applies to people who ARE offenders and are already incarcerated. I'd also like to make the point that it is undeniable that the US criminal justice system has much larger of a focus on punishment rather than it does on rehabilitation (as seen by recidivism rates). This culture in which we aim to punish rather than to reform is proof in and of itself that the CJS is cruel and corrupt. This is all a huge critique of the current system we have, and there's so much more at play than just the police when we talk about the system being oppressive.

For me personally, when I look at the alternatives to policing (and also incarceration) that have been offered up, such as unarmed intervention teams or utilising/funding mental health centres, restorative justice plans, supervised releases etc etc...the power imbalance is nowhere near as huge and these alternatives place much bigger focus on reformation rather than punishment. These are not systems that are intended to be weaponised against society. Even in the instances that you talk about, with your example of people with PTSD not being seen as "normal" - "new things" to society or abnormalities would be approached in a completely different way than in a system that focuses on punishment.

I know your points were in agreement that the LGBT+ community is historically victimized, but I think it will be more effective to highlight how it continues, and where that stems from, such as the Trans / drag community becoming stereotyped as prostitutes, when they are out, or viewed as “dressed proactively” in the evening.
Marginalisation of communities will never come to an end as a result of analysing stereotypes or analysing patterns - otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Stereotypes, statistics, "patterns" etc have all been debunked and analysed online for like a decade now. I'm seriously confused as to what you think this will achieve. Anyone with internet access can do this for themselves - the problem is that people don't care, and that includes the police force. We especially shouldn't be being policed by people who are wilfully taking action on the basis of a stigma that takes maybe 30 seconds to debunk via Google search.
 

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