Crux
Banned deucer.
Discussing foundational LGBT theory and politics in the LGBT thread? How dare we. Stellar contribution.cops are the real enemies why are we trying to be cops to each other smh
Discussing foundational LGBT theory and politics in the LGBT thread? How dare we. Stellar contribution.cops are the real enemies why are we trying to be cops to each other smh
Implying everyone who disagrees with u is taking away ur free speech isn't a good look when you're literally antagonizing people for daring to want nuanced labels to describe their orientafion. Literally stop it's so cringyDiscussing foundational LGBT theory and politics in the LGBT thread? How dare we. Stellar contribution.
You don't need to continuously get defensive whenever someone replies to you by the way. It's not a good look. Everyone else in this thread is just having a serious discussion, and you coming in and talking like we're in PS talking in Lobby is the only truly cringe part of this. Literally stop trying to police everything. You've done this in the PokePride discord and now it's happening here. It's fine if you don't agree with this discussion, but if you have absolutely nothing constructive to add onto it, there's no point in commenting on it. With a modified quote FROM you,Implying everyone who disagrees with u is taking away ur free speech isn't a good look when you're literally antagonizing people for daring to want nuanced labels to describe their orientafion. Literally stop it's so cringy
No, what I was implying was that you had contributed nothing of value to the conversation but for some reason felt the need to chime in regardless. You thought that was an invitation to make an even more puerile post.Implying everyone who disagrees with u is taking away ur free speech isn't a good look when you're literally antagonizing people for daring to want nuanced labels to describe their orientafion. Literally stop it's so cringy
I wouldn't say identity as a construct is so bad, per se. While I do agree that limiting ourselves to a set of terms with rigid definitions to try and legitimize the non-rigid feelings we have deep inside isn't ideal, having labels is still at the very least a convenience for the sake of explaining the brunt of how you feel, even if words themselves can never fully portray the way we feel internally to perfect detail.The crucial point here is that identity is a neoliberal farce. It encourages us to view ourselves as individual units distinct from a social whole. It reduces us to a series of words that actually make very little sense, and strips us of our understanding of the relational whole that Gender and Sexuality actually must be. Neither Gender or Sexuality make any coherent conceptual sense unless viewed contextually. This should be obvious given that they are purely defined relationally. How you identify does not change how you will be treated. Homophobes, transphobes, etc. don’t know the difference. They categorise you and will harm you regardless of what you actually identify as. Your identity matters to you and you alone. Sometimes it is a useful tool to explain yourself to the world, but most of the time it is lazy – both in terms of articulating who you are and what you aspire to be, and in terms of introspection.
Funny joke, though probably not something to end an otherwise entirely formal argument on-You’re valid, identify how you want. But also think about it. Unless you’re heteroromantic homosexual, in which case I love you and I think you need to get help.
Again, there is a distinction between people's personal use of labels etc. to understand their personal identity and generalising that as a model of attraction or as something with any worth beyond that specific individual. You are saying that the former is often good and fine. I have said repeatedly that I agree with this. I am saying the latter is bad, and this post misunderstands my argument entirely.I wouldn't say identity as a construct is so bad, per se. While I do agree that limiting ourselves to a set of terms with rigid definitions to try and legitimize the non-rigid feelings we have deep inside isn't ideal, having labels is still at the very least a convenience for the sake of explaining the brunt of how you feel, even if words themselves can never fully portray the way we feel internally to perfect detail.
It would be an ideal world if everyone could just shrug their shoulders and say "I am what I am", but we unfortunately do not live in an ideal world. People are obsessed with trying to put terms to things and categorize them to the finest detail; it is that same notion that lends to people feeling like it's necessary to "come out" whenever they find the words to come to terms with how they associate themselves.
Personally, I believe that if we were to cease all use of labels, that it would only set us backwards to the previous "default" of only associating things as either masculine or feminine, which can only serve to bring harm to people who find their identities and preferences somewhere in between or external to those constructs.
Funny joke, though probably not something to end an otherwise entirely formal argument on-
seriously? the distinction between romantic and sexual attraction harms no one. it's just a fact of human sexuality. when someone chooses a label for themselves, it does not impact you in any way. it doesn't hurt you, either, when that label becomes something more than one person uses that label. just because labels are descriptive rather than prescriptive and people wanna try different ones doesn't mean people are obsessed with them, and pointing out that these nuances exist doesn't sexualize queer people. that's bullshit. straight people have a sexual orientation too and their own individual nuances. they're allowed to have labels too lol. the point of queer liberation is to let people live and love on their own terms, and when you imply that people are hurting you for deciding what terms they live on, it's honestly no different from like telling bi ppl to "just pick one" cause it makes gay ppl look bad. just cause some kid on tumblr is exploring their sexuality and using words you don't like doesn't mean they'd find their True Orientation TM if they just logged off and thought a little harder about it. that's so condescending dude. i wouldn't have found out i was bi and nonbinary if i didn't meet people on the internet who told me i could even feel that way. i would probably still be unsure of myself if i didn't get the chance to think about who i could be, or hear people describe their experience in a way that resonated with me. being gay was unthinkable 100 years ago, too. but oh, one conservative made a joke about neopronouns so i guess i gotta throw my whole identity out and start from scratch!!Again, there is a distinction between people's personal use of labels etc. to understand their personal identity and generalising that as a model of attraction or as something with any worth beyond that specific individual. You are saying that the former is often good and fine. I have said repeatedly that I agree with this. I am saying the latter is bad, and this post misunderstands my argument entirely.
Also, I still don't get why the people who have responded are so obsessed with the last line of my post rather than the substance of my argument.
If they had actually read my argument about why the distinction between romantic and sexual attraction is particularly harmful for gay people then maybe they would reconsider this.
yes, and we make fun of straight people's shitty labeling all the time. sapiosexual!! demisexual!! if an identity marker is misguided or harmful, we have the capacity to say: yes, this is bad. i cannot believe you said with your whole chest that wanting to eliminate language that obfuscates and misleads people is somehow an equivalent to erasing someone's sexuality. please reread his post. i am not sure where you went wrong.straight people have a sexual orientation too and their own individual nuances. they're allowed to have labels too lol. the point of queer liberation is to let people live and love on their own terms, and when you imply that people are hurting you for deciding what terms they live on, it's honestly no different from like telling bi ppl to "just pick one" cause it makes gay ppl look bad.
1) I explained in my first post that it harmed gay people as a whole and especially young LGBT people. This is not a response to that argument.seriously? the distinction between romantic and sexual attraction harms no one.
1) It does impact me. I have been harmed by it as a gay non-binary person.it's just a fact of human sexuality. when someone chooses a label for themselves, it does not impact you in any way.
1) It does and has hurt me personally.it doesn't hurt you, either, when that label becomes something more than one person uses that label.
1) This first half of this sentence is incoherent.just because labels are descriptive rather than prescriptive and people wanna try different ones doesn't mean people are obsessed with them, and pointing out that these nuances exist doesn't sexualize queer people. that's bullshit.
1) Everyone is allowed labels individually, it does not follow from this that they are good or should be applied generally to our thinking or politics.straight people have a sexual orientation too and their own individual nuances. they're allowed to have labels too lol.
1) It is not at all clear that this is the point of queer liberation.the point of queer liberation is to let people live and love on their own terms, and when you imply that people are hurting you for deciding what terms they live on, it's honestly no different from like telling bi ppl to "just pick one" cause it makes gay ppl look bad.
1) This is meaningless. I am glad you found your identity that way, but it does not follow from this that the split attraction model is good or legitimate.just cause some kid on tumblr is exploring their sexuality and using words you don't like doesn't mean they'd find their True Orientation TM if they just logged off and thought a little harder about it. that's so condescending dude. i wouldn't have found out i was bi and nonbinary if i didn't meet people on the internet who told me i could even feel that way. i would probably still be unsure of myself if i didn't get the chance to think about who i could be, or hear people describe their experience in a way that resonated with me.
1) Irrelevantbeing gay was unthinkable 100 years ago, too. but oh, one conservative made a joke about neopronouns so i guess i gotta throw my whole identity out and start from scratch!!
some are slightly less prominent than others, but here's what i found:important
what shiny mons have trans flag colors? im trying to make a team but the only ones i know are sylveon and porygon line
I feel like that's part of it, certainly - like, there are people who are all right with the concept of people having gender identities and sexualities which do not match how they perceive the world, but have much more of an issue with people who fall into either/both of these camps when they're in the presence of it. For example, there might sometimes be sincerity in the line, "you can be and do whatever you want in the bedroom". But I think that beyond this, there are two important factors: that queerness can be seen by those who have questioned their gender and/or sexuality as totally steering into those identities which they see as perhaps alien to them and therefore try to rebuke within themselves; and because of the association of sexuality and gender identity with gender norms can cause some people to see queerness as some sort of threat. They're wrong for doing so, and it's clear evidence of toxic culture, but I think that's where it comes from. Like, a guy shouldn't be TERRIFIED that someone will try to sleep with them just because that other person is gay; a big part of it, I think, is indeed this lack of understanding of what's different (being gay=/=liking EVERY guy under the Sun, for starters)...but more importantly, it's a confrontation of their own sexuality and their perceived sense of like...masculinity. It's really annoying. It doesn't help that guys tend to think that guys who are interested in other guys will behave the same way toward them as guys who who are interested in chicks. Perhaps there's some truth to it, but for me personally, as an example, if I give you a compliment, I am NOOOT flirting; I just want to say something that I genuinely believe to be praiseworthy. Frankly, it feels offensive to be treated like everything I do and say is an attempt to sleep with another guy. Generally, if you're that worried about something, it's reflective of some sort of issue going on in your own head (not necessarily that you're gay, to be clear; just that it's not about the person in front of you so much as something bothering you internally).The only real explanation I can really come up with is that people are afraid of change and things outside of what is considered the "norm". But, change is another fundamental aspect of human society and growth, so I suppose it comes full circle. I guess I just wish people were more accepting of LGBT folk, because at the end of the day, we just want to be secure with who we are and what we want to be. Threatening people's lives and trying to tear people apart just because you don't want to understand them is not only ridiculous, but hypocritical at its core.
That was totes a thing yes, and we're still seeing the effects of it today. I'm hearing far less of the slippery slope argumentation and there is LESS of the "My GeNdEr Is AtTaCk HeLiCoPtEr, LOLOLOL", which is good. (Probably helps that social media platforms seem to have less overlap between leftist and rightist camps nowadays, I'm sure.) But there's been overall less judgement and opposition to homosexuality which also means less organised opposition, whilst bi erasure is still very real and there's been real pushback against trans people, like that whole gender & sports debate. The Overton Window is shifting, but I don't know the extent to which that'll lead to positive change. It's been pretty slow in The Netherlands (though public spaces now GENERALLY use things like, "dear passengers" instead of "ladies and gentlemen"), but I'm optimistic - at least there's some good stuff baked into Dutch healthcare for people who are. In the US, it's a shame that it seems a lot needs to be done politically, not just socially; the former is worrisome, especially if the Supreme Court would get involved.If you live in the US, notice how when gay marriage was legalized, there was a complete shift over to oppressing trans people? It’s because they knew they were facing a losing battle and now the same arguments made against gay people a decade ago were copy pasted for trans people. It’s all been a cycle from the Civil Rights movement, to gay rights, and now trans rights. And they’re still under the impression that if [insert minority group here] gain more rights it will then move to supporting pedophiles or beastiality which as mentioned before, are inherently harmful to both parties of such affairs.
It reminds me of when I came out in high school. People were actually very supportive, especially the girl who I was dating when it happened. Looking back, she probably was the only one who had the right to be upset, but that wasn't really like her. I remember people saying things like "As long as you don't rub it in my face" and me being like "Nooooo of course not" like I was just glad they didn't actively hate me. One of my closest friends said "At least you're like... Talented. Like, you play piano and stuff... So you're one of the good ones." The implication being that if I didn't have some kind of skill I'd be worthless like gay people without talents? And I was okay with that too. Today you wouldn't get away with saying things like that to me.... But I also think a lot less people are actually saying it to begin with. Which is nice. I encounter pretty much no negativity about my sexuality in every day life. Even the gun-toting, Trump loving, women are not equal to men, socialism is the devil, bible-weaponizing guy at work is very friendly to me. He even flirts, lol.So, talked to my friend again, and apparently, me coming out to him changed his opinion from one of being totally against the LGBTQ+ community to one of "I may not necessary agree, but I don't have anything against LGBTQ+ people", which is the type of change that is necessary to have people be more accepting of the LGBTQ+ community.
context...??? MASSIVE cryptid energy right thereupdate: i am undetectable :)
Hey Hana!Hi smogon dot com slash forums, posting here to formally come out as trans here. It's been a long struggle over the past couple years figuring myself out, but I think I'm finally comfortable enough to accept myself and start moving forward on making the best version of myself that I can. I'm going by Hana now and use she/her pronouns, so uh nice to meet you all again :)
in the last few days, i've had a good handful of people ask about my experience with detransitioning. not sure why multiple people have decided to ask me all around the same time, but it has led me to believe some explanation on my situation and feelings could maybe help some people. anything i say is just my personal experiences, and to those who are not LGBT or allies, my experience is not indicative of the typical transgender experience whatsoever, so don't use me detransitioning as a weapon against trans people in this community please.im detransitioning